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mock draft thread

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  • calfoxwc C Dedicated Very Popular Conversation Starter Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Reacting Well Week One Done One Year In One Month Later
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    C calfoxwc wrote on last edited by calfoxwc
    #34

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/24905342/nfl-draft-nate-orchard-utah-power-past-colorado-state

    Here's some great stuff about Orchard. I wonder - is he intense only to get drafted?

    Does he LOVE the game? Or, he wants to make big bucks, and will go through the motions in the pros?

    Or the switch turns on when the player gets into the bigtime?

    Wouldn't draft him unless I had the answers that I wanted, but I'm no scout or coach. I don't know diddley... !

    *****************************

    "On most snaps, Sambrailo's length and lateral agility was enough to contain Orchard, who entered the game as the FBS-leader with an average of 1.46 sacks per game. As he did all season, Orchard made his living on third down, alternately using speed to challenge the big tackle's range or countering back inside.

    Unlike the five edge rushers that rank ahead of him on NFLDraftScout.com's board, the 6-foot-4, 255 pound Orchard does not possess an electric first-step. By varying his rush, however, he leaves tackles off balance and forced to rely on their hands to grasp hold of his jersey. Orchard mitigates this with strong, active hands of his own, which he uses well slap away their reach and dance his way into the backfield.

    Orchard's refined hand technique and agility were on display in the final minutes of the first quarter with the Utes leading 21-7.

    With the Rams facing 3rd and 7 from the Utah 24, Orchard got a terrific jump off the ball and chopped through Sambrailo's effort to latch on. Orchard wasn't able to get to CSU quarterback Garrett Grayson for the sack but he did deflect the ball as it left the quarterback's hand, forcing an incompletion.

    Most of Orchard's plays came from his customary right defensive end position. With the Rams marching down the field on their first drive of the third quarter, however, the Utes moved Orchard to the left side. While the angle Orchard took to the quarterback changed, the result did not.

    Rather than attempt to beat Colorado State upfield on a traditional rush, Orchard looped inside, driving through the right guard to sack Grayson and force a fumble. Though the Rams recovered, CSU kicker Jared Roberts missed a 44-yard field goal.

    The sack gave Orchard 18.5 for the year, overtaking Washington's Hau'oli Kikaha for tops in the country. It was his third forced fumble of the year."

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    • calfoxwc C Dedicated Very Popular Conversation Starter Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Reacting Well Week One Done One Year In One Month Later
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      C calfoxwc wrote on last edited by
      #35

      BTW, I keep reading about all these players, trying to fix my

      stupid mock draft.

      The only two sure things I have so far, is the Browns drafting

      Justin Manton, the kicker, and drafting a #1 wr in the first round.

      I don't see any immediate step up their first year #1's falling out of the first round,

      this year.

      Outside of that, my stupid mock draft has me all confused...

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      • tiamat63 tiamat63T Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Week One Done One Month Later One Year In Very Popular
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        tiamat63T tiamat63 wrote on last edited by tiamat63
        #36

        You aren't posting your opinion - you're posting links other people's opinions. Gorilla, not Guerrilla... Big difference.

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        • Tour2maT Tour2ma

          @tiamat63 said:

          Shelton is elite in the fact that, for this position, he has a very complete skill set. However the one that interests the Browns the most ( stopping the interior run) can be done just as well by Carl Davis. At this point I know he'll be called a "reach" but mark my words, after the combine you're going to hear his name tossed in for 1st round consideration.

          However, while you and draft scouts put Grayson as the 4th QB and 100ish pick, this is a QB starved NFL and he's going to go much higher based on that alone.

          As for Orchard, he's the other name you'll hear worthy of that fringe 1st round talk. I'd love to get him at 43. In a perfect world we could get Shelton at 12, Clemmjngs at 19, Orchard at 43 and Grayson in the 3rd. But I know that just

          Won't happen.

          As for Hull and O'Leary. I think Nick would again, compliment the current skill set of our TE's and be the more athletic threat. He is a bit under rated IMHO. Hull could be had in the 5th, you're pretty spot on. I just think the kid might have some Borland type potential and id hate to miss out on that.

          Agree that some positions are elevated. QB and OT most of all... Just feeding back some observations. But nothing wrong with reaching if the talent is there.

          Agree on Hull... I see the Borland in him as well.

          Funny you mention Clemmings as I just watched TJ's film yesterday afternoon. It was all at RT. Good prospect with fledgling mechanics and decent fluidity. Some questions around level of competition. Lost his "game" against Miami after a Q2 bull rush caught him off-balance and put him on the ground, so his head is a question. I see a potential RT upgrade, but not sure about a future LT, and IMO that makes him expensive in Round 1, which is where he likely goes.

          Where are you finding your footage? I'm using http://draftbreakdown.com/players/ , but could use a couple free alternatives.

          tiamat63 tiamat63T Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Week One Done One Month Later One Year In Very Popular
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          tiamat63T tiamat63 wrote on last edited by
          #37

          @tour2ma said:

          Funny you mention Clemmings as I just watched TJ's film yesterday afternoon. It was all at RT. Good prospect with fledgling mechanics and decent fluidity. Some questions around level of competition. Lost his "game" against Miami after a Q2 bull rush caught him off-balance and put him on the ground, so his head is a question. I see a potential RT upgrade, but not sure about a future LT, and IMO that makes him expensive in Round 1, which is where he likely goes.

          Where are you finding your footage? I'm using http://draftbreakdown.com/players/ , but could use a couple free alternatives.

          What time I got to watch TJ I liked some things I saw. My eye isn't as sharp as yours In relation to mechanics, but the kid didn't the the lateral movement issues and kick step problems I saw with Schreff.

          As for footage - a lot of players I've simply found on YouTube. DraftJedi has multiple videos on prospects. If I can't find it there, school and conference websites or if I'm really not finding anything I'll hit up frostwire and seed a full game.

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          • calfoxwc C Dedicated Very Popular Conversation Starter Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Reacting Well Week One Done One Year In One Month Later
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            C calfoxwc wrote on last edited by calfoxwc
            #38

            Those were examples of what I've been reading, which is a LOT of reading.

            and my opinions are based on everything I've read.

            Otherwise, you see some great highlights, and great stats,

            and you end up drafting a "mad dog in a meat market".

            I hate that.

            tiamat63T 1 Reply Last reply
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            • C calfoxwc

              Those were examples of what I've been reading, which is a LOT of reading.

              and my opinions are based on everything I've read.

              Otherwise, you see some great highlights, and great stats,

              and you end up drafting a "mad dog in a meat market".

              I hate that.

              tiamat63 tiamat63T Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Week One Done One Month Later One Year In Very Popular
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              tiamat63T tiamat63 wrote on last edited by
              #39

              @calfoxwc said:

              Those were examples of what I've been reading, which is a LOT of reading.

              and my opinions are based on everything I've read.

              Otherwise, you see some great highlights, and great stats,

              and you end up drafting a "mad dog in a meat market".

              I hate that.

              So a lot of reading of others opinions and if they influence you enough to agree with them, you assimilate those opinions as your own.

              Ok then.

              jcam222J 1 Reply Last reply
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              • calfoxwc C Dedicated Very Popular Conversation Starter Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Reacting Well Week One Done One Year In One Month Later
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                C calfoxwc wrote on last edited by
                #40

                Well, I'm not an arrogant person where I see video, and "know" that

                a player will be a great player in the NFL.

                That's how Phil Savage and Shottenheimer did it. A consensus of opinions by those

                who have videos of games - yeah, I consider that as part of my stupid opinions on the draft.

                I still maintain the right to disagree with you. I've watched video... but again, highlight films don't impress

                me when "expert" scout opinions of what they see otherwise tells a different story.

                You apparently would have drafted Braylon Edwards, Josh Gordon, and Manziel based on

                your "expert" viewing of their college videos. I wouldn't have.

                I'll stick to my way of being wrong, you stick to yours, see you after the draft.

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                • Mudfly MudflyM Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Dedicated One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                  MudflyM Mudfly wrote on last edited by
                  #41

                  yep....we can all watch tape and see how they play...but none of us have the inside scoop on their mental makeup, will to win, intelligence etc....thats a total crap shoot....

                  so, just being fans with only tape and printed material to form our opinions, we almost HAVE to rely on the written word for some of those intangibles that aren't visible or apparent on tape.....

                  In the end, it's 50/50 on every player in the draft.....you like him or you dont...and...he'll be good or he wont.......the end.

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                  • C calfoxwc

                    Well, I'm not an arrogant person where I see video, and "know" that

                    a player will be a great player in the NFL.

                    That's how Phil Savage and Shottenheimer did it. A consensus of opinions by those

                    who have videos of games - yeah, I consider that as part of my stupid opinions on the draft.

                    I still maintain the right to disagree with you. I've watched video... but again, highlight films don't impress

                    me when "expert" scout opinions of what they see otherwise tells a different story.

                    You apparently would have drafted Braylon Edwards, Josh Gordon, and Manziel based on

                    your "expert" viewing of their college videos. I wouldn't have.

                    I'll stick to my way of being wrong, you stick to yours, see you after the draft.

                    tiamat63 tiamat63T Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Week One Done One Month Later One Year In Very Popular
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                    tiamat63T tiamat63 wrote on last edited by
                    #42

                    @calfoxwc said:

                    Well, I'm not an arrogant person where I see video, and "know" that

                    a player will be a great player in the NFL.

                    That's how Phil Savage and Shottenheimer did it. A consensus of opinions by those

                    who have videos of games - yeah, I consider that as part of my stupid opinions on the draft.

                    I still maintain the right to disagree with you. I've watched video... but again, highlight films don't impress

                    me when "expert" scout opinions of what they see otherwise tells a different story.

                    You apparently would have drafted Braylon Edwards, Josh Gordon, and Manziel based on

                    your "expert" viewing of their college videos. I wouldn't have.

                    I'll stick to my way of being wrong, you stick to yours, see you after the draft.

                    I don't "know" anything. Even the most wise do not see to all ends. However after the remarkable busts selected by not only the Browns, but others teams as well in the last 10 years - It was then I realized that I have a pretty good eye for talent.

                    Also, the air of arrogance you're feeling so palpable, is that I've done my homework to watch these people to be able to give an informed opinion on their abilities. I don't rely on word of mouth or what you see on ESPN which is pure nonsense. You have EVERY right to disagree with me, but I don't appreciate you disagreeing with me by using the opinion of another individual as the basis for your argument. That's petty to me.

                    To address your last points about players. I bitched about Braylon, Kellen 'Solja Boy' Winslow (honestly only because of his health concerns, he was a premium receiving talent) Quinn, Maiava in the 2nd round, Mohammed Massaquai,(spell check) TJ Ward in the 2nd round, Montario Hardesty (again, healthy reasons AND trading up to get him) Brandon Weeden, and Manziel.

                    Of those, I have proof of posts from my time on others forums of my opinion on said players well before the draft and a video of me cursing out half of the bar last year when we took Manziel. Aside from being wrong about Ward, the only other time I was glaringly wrong was about Haden when I said I felt he was a bit undersized and instead wanted Earl Thomas. Technically I wouldn't have been wrong as we would have either way had a top 2 player at their position if we had choosen Earl - but I was slightly off in my miscalculation of Joe. To this day, couldn't be happier about.

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                    • calfoxwc C Dedicated Very Popular Conversation Starter Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Reacting Well Week One Done One Year In One Month Later
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                      C calfoxwc wrote on last edited by
                      #43

                      Ask anybody that remembers... I was a huge Joe Thomas hawk, and I wasn't alone

                      about Joe Haden being THE pick.

                      And all my other picks were wrong. Just let people disagree with you, and stop being

                      offended about it.

                      I ain't no scout, you are maybe, jimmy crack corn and I don't care. I agree to disagree with you on two players.

                      Wait, you watched video of Haden.. and you were WRONG about him? LIS (that's a new acronym - "Laughing in Silence"

                      tiamat63T 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • C calfoxwc

                        Ask anybody that remembers... I was a huge Joe Thomas hawk, and I wasn't alone

                        about Joe Haden being THE pick.

                        And all my other picks were wrong. Just let people disagree with you, and stop being

                        offended about it.

                        I ain't no scout, you are maybe, jimmy crack corn and I don't care. I agree to disagree with you on two players.

                        Wait, you watched video of Haden.. and you were WRONG about him? LIS (that's a new acronym - "Laughing in Silence"

                        tiamat63 tiamat63T Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Week One Done One Month Later One Year In Very Popular
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                        tiamat63T tiamat63 wrote on last edited by
                        #44

                        @calfoxwc said:

                        Ask anybody that remembers... I was a huge Joe Thomas hawk, and I wasn't alone

                        about Joe Haden being THE pick.

                        And all my other picks were wrong. Just let people disagree with you, and stop being

                        offended about it.

                        I ain't no scout, you are maybe, jimmy crack corn and I don't care. I agree to disagree with you on two players.

                        Wait, you watched video of Haden.. and you were WRONG about him? LIS (that's a new acronym - "Laughing in Silence"

                        I actually hummed this as I read it allowed and it had me laughing pretty hard.

                        And thank you for telling me what the acronym meant, I have no idea what half of you kids these days are saying when I see things like that in type.

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                        • tiamat63T tiamat63

                          @calfoxwc said:

                          Those were examples of what I've been reading, which is a LOT of reading.

                          and my opinions are based on everything I've read.

                          Otherwise, you see some great highlights, and great stats,

                          and you end up drafting a "mad dog in a meat market".

                          I hate that.

                          So a lot of reading of others opinions and if they influence you enough to agree with them, you assimilate those opinions as your own.

                          Ok then.

                          jcam222 jcam222J Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                          jcam222J jcam222 wrote on last edited by
                          #45

                          @tiamat63 said:

                          So a lot of reading of others opinions and if they influence you enough to agree with them, you assimilate those opinions as your own.

                          Ok then.

                          I think that factoring in the opinions of "experts" is entirely within the scope of most of us ranking players. There are very few of us qualified to watch film and make that assessment without outside influence.

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                          • calfoxwc C Dedicated Very Popular Conversation Starter Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Reacting Well Week One Done One Year In One Month Later
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                            C calfoxwc wrote on last edited by
                            #46

                            And thank you for telling me what the acronym meant, I have no idea what half of you kids these days are saying when I see things like that in type. Tiam

                            ********************************

                            Well,

                            A. I had to tell you what it means, because I just made it up.

                            B. Thanks for the lefthanded compliment, but chances are, I am older than you.

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                            • T TexasAg1969

                              I think it would be well worth revisiting Draft Scouts after free agency, combine and individual college pro days are completed.

                              Think I will make a hard copy now and compare the changes with those revisions.

                              Right now I'm leaning towards Peat or Collins followed by best available ILB. A decent DT should still be there 2nd round unless there is a real standout WR we just can't pass on. All depends on free agency so all are wild guesses for now.

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                              Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on last edited by
                              #47

                              Nothing wrong with reading others' opinions. When common themes emerge on a given player the odds are good that there's something to them. That's a lot different than reading one and hanging your hat on it.

                              None of us have the time to invest in independent evaluation of over 2000 players. I use DraftScout to set the order I watch prospects in a given position. I spend more time on the O-line cause I want to. And when I spend time I like time-edited, but otherwise unvarnished, game tape.

                              @texasag1969 said:

                              I think it would be well worth revisiting Draft Scouts after free agency, combine and individual college pro days are completed.

                              Think I will make a hard copy now and compare the changes with those revisions.

                              Right now I'm leaning towards Peat or Collins followed by best available ILB. A decent DT should still be there 2nd round unless there is a real standout WR we just can't pass on. All depends on free agency so all are wild guesses for now.

                              Hard copy? What's that? 😉 Consider Lightshot...

                              https://app.prntscr.com/en/index.html

                              DraftScout's movers are noted by arrows next to names... Already has been some movement at some positions, e.g., McKinney (ILB) started as a clear #1, but is now the #3 ILB and a 2nd rounder. AS of now DS rates no ILB's as first-round worthy. I think the top ILB prospects this year will end up being OLB converts. But you are correct, the Combine will shake up the rankings considerably.

                              Peat and Collins look far from interchangeable to my eye. Collins is simply not fluid. Peat on the other hand is "like buttah".

                              "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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                              • tiamat63 tiamat63T Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Week One Done One Month Later One Year In Very Popular
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                                tiamat63T tiamat63 wrote on last edited by
                                #48

                                Dawson out of TCU. Kid is a damn good football player but has character issues. If you can snag him mid to late round, it would be tempting. Then make sure he ends up under the wing of Dansby, Whitner and Craig.

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                                • tiamat63T tiamat63

                                  Dawson out of TCU. Kid is a damn good football player but has character issues. If you can snag him mid to late round, it would be tempting. Then make sure he ends up under the wing of Dansby, Whitner and Craig.

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                                  Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on last edited by
                                  #49

                                  @tiamat63 said:

                                  Dawson out of TCU. Kid is a damn good football player but has character issues. If you can snag him mid to late round, it would be tempting. Then make sure he ends up under the wing of Dansby, Whitner and Craig.

                                  Dawson just stared showing up as a late 1st round OLB/ILB choice in the First-Pick sim.

                                  Two small DEs that may stand up as OLBs look interesting: Washington's Hauoli Kikaha and Missou's Markus Golden. I just started looking at Golden.

                                  "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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                                  • calfoxwc C Dedicated Very Popular Conversation Starter Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Reacting Well Week One Done One Year In One Month Later
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                                    C calfoxwc wrote on last edited by
                                    #50

                                    When I hear "character issues" I think:

                                    2nd chance, I'm maybe okay....maybe giving them a second chance....

                                    3rd/4th...drop like a hot rock.

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                                      OsirisO Osiris wrote on last edited by
                                      #51

                                      Here is my first crack at a fanspeak mock draft. I would be pretty happy with this.

                                      12: R1P12
                                      DT DANNY SHELTON
                                      WASHINGTON
                                      19: R1P19
                                      OLB VIC BEASLEY
                                      CLEMSON
                                      43: R2P11
                                      OT JEREMIAH POUTASI
                                      UTAH
                                      77: R3P13
                                      WR DEVIN SMITH
                                      OHIO STATE
                                      108: R4P12
                                      TE TYLER KROFT
                                      RUTGERS
                                      112: R4P16
                                      G JOSUE MATIAS
                                      FLORIDA STATE
                                      139: R5P11
                                      WR VINCE MAYLE
                                      WASHINGTON STATE
                                      173: R6P13
                                      FB JALSTON FOWLER
                                      ALABAMA
                                      186: R6P26
                                      QB SEAN MANNION
                                      OREGON STATE
                                      204: R7P12
                                      C MAX GARCIA
                                      FLORIDA
                                      "I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta
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                                      • tiamat63 tiamat63T Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Week One Done One Month Later One Year In Very Popular
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                                        tiamat63T tiamat63 wrote on last edited by
                                        #52

                                        Unless he fires up a spliff and shoots a puppy during the combine - not a chance Devin drops to the 3rd round. It'd sure be nice though.

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                                        • tiamat63T tiamat63

                                          Unless he fires up a spliff and shoots a puppy during the combine - not a chance Devin drops to the 3rd round. It'd sure be nice though.

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                                          OsirisO Osiris wrote on last edited by Osiris
                                          #53

                                          @tiamat63 said:

                                          Unless he fires up a spliff and shoots a puppy during the combine - not a chance Devin drops to the 3rd round. It'd sure be nice though.

                                          Yep, that's Fanspeak for ya, though.

                                          "I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta
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