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  3. Regrading the draft.....3 years on

Regrading the draft.....3 years on

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  • The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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    The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
    #1

    I think the statement that "you can't judge a draft for at least 3 years" is pretty much spot on. So what I am going to do here is to reassess the 2011 draft...since that is essentially 3 years on....and see which teams did best and which did worst. I am going to use a statistic that I have used a number of times before: the Pro-Football-Reference Career Production Average stat. Again, that stat boils down a players career productivity to a single number that supposedly gauges a player overall career contribution. For this I am simply adding up the CAs of every player taken by a team in a draft.

    This compilation does not account for trades, FAs, UDFAs, whether that player stayed with the drafting team... So here is each team's score from the 2011 draft:

    Seattle 141....contributors include Richard Sherman, KJ Wright, James Carpenter

    Denver 125...contributors include Von Miller, Orlando Franklin, Julius Thomas

    Houston 123...contributors: JJ Watt, Brooks Reed

    Dallas 116....contributors: DeMarco Murray, Tyrone Smith

    Cincinnati 111...contributors Andy Dalton, AJ Green

    Buffalo 97

    Cleveland 96...contributors: Taylor, Sheard, Cameron, Little, Skrine, Pinkston

    Tennessee 94

    San Francisco 93

    Arizona 91

    Washington 87

    Atlanta 81

    New England 80

    San Diego 79

    Kansas City 77

    Carolina 72

    Miami 72

    Philadelphia 67

    Baltimore 64

    Oakland 62

    Green Bay 60

    Chicago 59

    Minnesota 59

    Pittsburgh 59

    New Orleans 57

    St. Louis 56

    Tampa Bay 49

    NY Giants 39

    Indianapolis 38 Anthony Costanzo best pick

    Jacksonville 37 Cecil Shorts/Gabbert

    NY Jets 35 Jeremy Kerley best pock

    Detroit 31 Nick Fairley best pick

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    • The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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      The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
      #2

      FYI the "Top Ten picks of that year" based on production have been :

      JJ Watt 64 CA

      Cam Newton 59

      Richard Sherman 55 (5th round)

      Patrick Peterson 53

      Von Miller 43

      AJ Green 43

      Tyrone Smith 43

      DeMarco Murray 43 (3rd round)

      Julio Jones 40

      Marcel Dareus 38

      Justin Houston 38 (3rd round)

      Jaball Sheard has been most productive Brown with a 25 score.

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      • The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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        The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Here is the same compilation for the next year's draft 2012. There is a major surprise. But the one that is not a surprise is that for the second year the Seahawks again had the best draft in the league. Two years in a row supposedly.. (and they should have won 2 SBs in a row):

        Seattle 144 ....Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner, Sweezy

        Indianapolis 108.... Andrew Luck, TY Hilton, Fleener

        Minnesota 91 .... Matt Kalil, Harrison Smith

        Philadelphia 88.... Fletcher Cox, Nick Foles

        Cleveland 87...The Schwartz, Winn/Hughes plus Weeden/TR/James M. Johnson

        St. Louis 87

        Miami 86

        Washington 79

        Cincinnati 79

        Carolina 75

        Tampa Bay 69

        Houston 63

        Buffalo 60

        NY Jets 60

        Baltimore 58

        New England 56

        Pittsburgh 54

        Denver 53

        Tennessee 48

        San Diego 47

        Kansas City 43

        Jacksonville 42

        Arizona 40 (would have been 44 but they gave Ryan Lindley a -4 points)

        Detroit 37

        Chicago 37

        Atlanta 34

        NY Giants 32

        Green Bay 30

        New Orleans 28

        Dallas 26

        Oakland 20

        San Francisco 12 (rough times could be ahead for the Bay area)

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        • The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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          The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by The Gipper
          #4

          So, what I don't know is how accurate these rankings of drafted players productivity can be.

          Certainly Seattle being on top of the heap both years is reflected in their performance.

          But then the Browns were in the Top Ten both years....and that was not reflected on field....unless going from 4-12 to 7-9 is a trend....but then certain "main cogs" have faltered.....esp. Weeden/TR

          I think the main key is that yes.....you can have several fairly productive players.....but if one of them is not a QB... you may still be SOL. See the post below. If you have a Newton, Wilson, Luck....that is all essential

          (all with Division winning/playoff teams)

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          • The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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            The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
            #5

            The Top Ten Producers from the 2012 draft:

            Russell Wilson 49

            Andrew Luck 42

            Luke Kuechley 40

            RGIII 32 (started very strong)

            Ryan Tannehill 32

            Bobby Wagner 32

            Dontari Poe 29

            TY Hilton 29

            Lavonte David 25

            Alshon Jeffrey 25

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            • Frenchie F Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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              F Frenchie wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Our drafts have not been complete busts, but the first round and our attempts to find a QB have been brutal. How could we pass on Julio Jones? How could we pick so many QB's that failed to make the grade?

              tiamat63T 1 Reply Last reply
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              • F Frenchie

                Our drafts have not been complete busts, but the first round and our attempts to find a QB have been brutal. How could we pass on Julio Jones? How could we pick so many QB's that failed to make the grade?

                tiamat63 tiamat63T Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Collaborator First Post Posting Machine Week One Done One Month Later One Year In Very Popular
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                tiamat63T tiamat63 wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @frenchie said:

                Our drafts have not been complete busts, but the first round and our attempts to find a QB have been brutal. How could we pass on Julio Jones? How could we pick so many QB's that failed to make the grade?

                The Julio Jones trade doesn't bother me - that kid has yet to play a full season healthy. However the picks resulting from the deal with Atlanta have bothered me.

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                • tiamat63T tiamat63

                  @frenchie said:

                  Our drafts have not been complete busts, but the first round and our attempts to find a QB have been brutal. How could we pass on Julio Jones? How could we pick so many QB's that failed to make the grade?

                  The Julio Jones trade doesn't bother me - that kid has yet to play a full season healthy. However the picks resulting from the deal with Atlanta have bothered me.

                  Frenchie F Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                  F Frenchie wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @tiamat63 said:

                  The Julio Jones trade doesn't bother me - that kid has yet to play a full season healthy. However the picks resulting from the deal with Atlanta have bothered me.

                  But that's (JJ's injuries) making a pick with hindsight. JJ is one of the premiere WR's (talent) in the league and should not have been passed over. What does our first round busts and misses say about our talent evaluation and scouting teams?

                  MudflyM 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • F Frenchie

                    @tiamat63 said:

                    The Julio Jones trade doesn't bother me - that kid has yet to play a full season healthy. However the picks resulting from the deal with Atlanta have bothered me.

                    But that's (JJ's injuries) making a pick with hindsight. JJ is one of the premiere WR's (talent) in the league and should not have been passed over. What does our first round busts and misses say about our talent evaluation and scouting teams?

                    Mudfly MudflyM Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Dedicated One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                    MudflyM Mudfly wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @frenchie said:

                    . What does our first round busts and misses say about our talent evaluation and scouting teams?

                    What if you just got a new job and everyone kept bitching about and blaming you for shit that happened before you were even hired?.....always blaming YOU for the last guys screw ups?....over and over again....

                    Our talent evaluation and scouting team was just hired last year and has one draft under their belt. They dont "keep" doing anything, because they've only done it once....why can't people get this????....is it that hard?

                    And it usually takes 3 years(at least) to evaluate their picks.....(most of which look pretty good right now)......but the league, on average, only hits on about 30% of the 1st round and even lower in the later rounds.....Farmers hit on more, so far and the first still haven't shown out yet......if Gilbert is good, then we are WAY ahead of the curve for only 1 years worth of picks

                    So, come back in three years or go where ever the people are that you're complaining about, because they dont work here anymore

                    The GipperT 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • MudflyM Mudfly

                      @frenchie said:

                      . What does our first round busts and misses say about our talent evaluation and scouting teams?

                      What if you just got a new job and everyone kept bitching about and blaming you for shit that happened before you were even hired?.....always blaming YOU for the last guys screw ups?....over and over again....

                      Our talent evaluation and scouting team was just hired last year and has one draft under their belt. They dont "keep" doing anything, because they've only done it once....why can't people get this????....is it that hard?

                      And it usually takes 3 years(at least) to evaluate their picks.....(most of which look pretty good right now)......but the league, on average, only hits on about 30% of the 1st round and even lower in the later rounds.....Farmers hit on more, so far and the first still haven't shown out yet......if Gilbert is good, then we are WAY ahead of the curve for only 1 years worth of picks

                      So, come back in three years or go where ever the people are that you're complaining about, because they dont work here anymore

                      The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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                      The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by The Gipper
                      #10

                      @mudfly said:

                      What if you just got a new job and everyone kept bitching about and blaming you for shit that happened before you were even hired?.....always blaming YOU for the last guys screw ups?....over and over again....

                      Our talent evaluation and scouting team was just hired last year and has one draft under their belt. They dont "keep" doing anything, because they've only done it once....why can't people get this????....is it that hard?

                      And it usually takes 3 years(at least) to evaluate their picks.....(most of which look pretty good right now)......but the league, on average, only hits on about 30% of the 1st round and even lower in the later rounds.....Farmers hit on more, so far and the first still haven't shown out yet......if Gilbert is good, then we are WAY ahead of the curve for only 1 years worth of picks

                      So, come back in three years or go where ever the people are that you're complaining about, because they dont work here anymore

                      Well, that is why I went back 3-4 years....to assess what happened then.

                      I don't know if 30% success rate in the first round is quite accurate. I think it might be a bit better than that. (unless you mean 30% of Browns draft picks....then it is probably worse! 😠

                      Here are hits, misses from 2011 first round:

                      2011 1 1 Cam Newton QB CAR 2011 2014 0 2 4 59 62 62 30-31-1 1144 1923 14426 82 54 467 2571 33 1 33 0 Auburn

                      2 2011 1 2 Von Miller LB DEN 2011 2014 1 3 4 43 56 56 1 49.0 Texas A&M 3 2011 1

                      3 Marcell Dareus DT BUF 2011 2014 1 2 4 38 63 60 28.5 Alabama 4 2011 1

                      4 A.J. Green WR CIN 2011 2014 0 4 4 43 60 60 11 93 0 329 4874 35 Georgia 5 2011 1

                      5 Patrick Peterson DB ARI 2011 2014 2 4 4 53 64 64 1 1 17 0 0 7 34 0 10 64 0 15 2.0 LSU 6 2011 1

                      6 Julio Jones WR ATL 2011 2014 0 2 3 40 49 48 14 94 0 278 4330 26 Alabama 7 2011 1

                      7 Aldon Smith DE SFO 2011 2014 1 1 1 25 50 30 1 44.0 Missouri 8 2011 1

                      8 Jake Locker QB TEN 2011 2014 0 0 1 15 30 23 9-14-0 408 709 4967 27 22 95 644 5 Washington 9 2011 1

                      9 Tyron Smith OL DAL 2011 2014 1 2 4 43 63 63 USC 10 2011 1

                      10 Blaine Gabbert QB JAX 2011 2014 0 0 2 8 29 27 5-22-0 417 784 4395 23 24 76 191 0 Missouri

                      11 J.J. Watt DE HOU 2011 2014 3 3 4 64 64 64 3 4 3 1 57.0 Wisconsin 12 2011 1

                      12 Christian Ponder QB MIN 2011 2014 0 0 3 22 38 36 14-21-1 632 1057 6658 38 36 126 639 7 1 -15 0 Florida St. 13 2011 1

                      13 Nick Fairley DT DET 2011 2014 0 0 1 16 46 30 13.5 Auburn 14 2011 1

                      14 Robert Quinn DE STL 2011 2014 1 2 3 35 63 47 45.0 North Carolina 15 2011 1

                      15 Mike Pouncey OL MIA 2011 2014 0 2 4 30 58 58 Florida 16 2011 1

                      16 Ryan Kerrigan DE WAS 2011 2014 0 1 3 29 64 64 2 38.0 Purdue 17 2011 1

                      17 Nate Solder OL NWE 2011 2014 0 0 3 28 63 60 Colorado 18 2011 1

                      18 Corey Liuget DT SDG 2011 2014 0 0 4 27 63 61 18.0 Illinois 19 2011 1

                      19 Prince Amukamara DB NYG 2011 2014 0 0 2 13 44 35 6 Nebraska

                      20 Adrian Clayborn DL TAM 2011 2014 0 0 2 13 36 36 13.0 Iowa 21 2011 1

                      21 Phil Taylor DL CLE 2011 2014 0 0 2 19 44 42 7.0 Baylor 22 2011 1

                      22 Anthony Castonzo OL IND 2011 2014 0 0 4 29 60 60 1 1 1 Boston Col. 23 2011 1

                      23 Danny Watkins OL PHI 2011 2013 0 0 1 9 26 18 Baylor 24 2011 1

                      24 Cameron Jordan DE NOR 2011 2014 0 1 3 32 64 63 1 29.0 California 25 2011 1

                      25 James Carpenter OL SEA 2011 2014 0 0 2 20 45 39 Alabama 26 2011 1

                      26 Jonathan Baldwin WR KAN 2011 2013 0 0 0 4 33 11 44 607 2 Pittsburgh 27 2011 1

                      27 Jimmy Smith DB BAL 2011 2014 0 0 1 12 48 29 5 Colorado 28 2011 1

                      28 Mark Ingram RB NOR 2011 2014 0 1 1 18 50 21 582 2426 20 53 288 0 Alabama 29 2011 1

                      29 Gabe Carimi OL CHI 2011 2014 0 0 0 14 48 26 Wisconsin 30 2011 1

                      30 Muhammad Wilkerson DT NYJ 2011 2014 0 0 4 7 61 60 1 24.5 Temple Misc Games

                      31 Cameron Heyward

                      32. Derrock Sherrod

                      I only see what you can classify as sure fire busts about 5 players on this list: Gabbert, Ponder, Baldwin,Watkins, Sherrod.

                      Fourteen of the thirty two made at least one Pro Bowl. That is like 44%.

                      Plus, all but perhaps those 5 I mention have been reasonably solid starters. Including Phil Taylor.

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                      • The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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                        The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        I do think however that you may be more right on with your assessment of the 2012 draft as a 30% success rate

                        Only 6 players from that draft made the Pro Bowl....compared to 14 the year before. Plus there are about double the bona fide busts:

                        TR

                        Blackmon

                        Morris Claiborne

                        Dre Kirkpatrick

                        Weeden

                        Nick Perry

                        AJ Jenkins

                        David Wilson

                        Shae McLellin.

                        And we may eventually have to throw RGIII in there if he doesn't get it together.

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