How Close We are
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I think there are good arguments to be made for resigning Hoyer, naming him the starting QB and letting Manziel try to beat him out in preseason and work on the defense and maybe another O lineman and WR. There are good arguments to try and get a QB like Mariota. Good arguments to get a veteran QB. There may not be a right or wrong answer at this time (hindsight is always 20/20) but whatever we decide maybe we will get lucky. We are due.
Actually take luck out of it. I hope they just weigh all the options out and make the decision based on that.
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@douche-nozzle said:
When you count the close losses as possible wins you also have to count the close wins as possible losses.
I think it's because somewhere around the 2/3 mark the dysfunction starts to be visible to the players. They can't buy the rah rah stuff anymore because they see the cluster fuck around them and without that spark of hope they simply lose out.
Well, I agree that the dysfunction starts.....but I don't think you have a clue as to what causes it any more than anyone else. Injuries do come into play, but also a general ennui seems to descend.
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Game 1 at Pitts. Win if D shows up 1st half. Game 3 vs Balt. Damn you Billy Cundiff. Game 6 at Jax. A QB from Mich. playing RB ran all over us inexcusable and O. That would have made us 9 and 0. That's how close.. Be Consistent Week to Week both side of the ball period. Uncle Moe mentum would have carried us the rest of the way to playoffs..
Cundiff cost us in the Colts game too. A kicker has got to make the field goals they are supposed to make. I like this Hartley they brought in but from what I have been told his leg strength is questionable. The turning point of the season may have been when Mack went out injured or it was just a coincidence after he went out our running game vanished? As for our play off hopes I think the killer game was against the Colts. For myself at this point I had lost patience with our offense inability to score points. We should have won this game.
Cundiff cost us in the Colts game too. A kicker has got to make the field goals they are supposed to make. I like this Hartley they brought in but from what I have been told his leg strength is questionable. The turning point of the season may have been when Mack went out injured or it was just a coincidence after he went out our running game vanished? As for our play off hopes I think the killer game was against the Colts. For myself at this point I had lost patience with our offense inability to score points. We should have won this game.
Spot on with Mack, lead to Hoyer not being accurate with no time and no running game ask JF in Natty and for your Colt game again, Damn You Billy (all you got to do is kick) Cundiff...
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Cundiff cost us in the Colts game too. A kicker has got to make the field goals they are supposed to make. I like this Hartley they brought in but from what I have been told his leg strength is questionable. The turning point of the season may have been when Mack went out injured or it was just a coincidence after he went out our running game vanished? As for our play off hopes I think the killer game was against the Colts. For myself at this point I had lost patience with our offense inability to score points. We should have won this game.
Spot on with Mack, lead to Hoyer not being accurate with no time and no running game ask JF in Natty and for your Colt game again, Damn You Billy (all you got to do is kick) Cundiff...
Spot on with Mack, lead to Hoyer not being accurate with no time and no running game ask JF in Natty and for your Colt game again, Damn You Billy (all you got to do is kick) Cundiff...
Nobody has said anything about our kicking game just our special teams in general but does the club need to go out and get a kicker? I think when a kicker misses field goals they should make (40 yard and less) that is a huge momentum stopper. A team drives down the field to at least earn the 3 points they deserve and come away empty. Hartley at least makes the ones he should.
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How close are we? I think with a top 10 quarterback we'd have had a lot more success. We'd have most likely won the earlier close games and had a bigger margin in the close losses. The Indianapolis game? Yes Billy Cundiff should have made the field goal. But while we are pointing fingers maybe a couple more complete passes would have helped too.
WSS
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I'll play the devil's advocate here.
The Browns went 2-7 against teams which finished the season with a >.500 record, 5-2 against teams which finished with a <.500 record.
Out of the 16 games next season, 5 of them are against teams which won 8 games or fewer this season. Of these 5, San Francisco is a big question mark and beating the Rams in St Louis is always a tough ask. Of the remaining 11 games, 9 of them are against playoff teams and the remaining two, Chargers and Chiefs (9 win teams), are both on the road.
If the Browns don't improve their play against teams with a winning record, I'm afraid they'll struggle to even match this season's record.
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Spot on with Mack, lead to Hoyer not being accurate with no time and no running game ask JF in Natty and for your Colt game again, Damn You Billy (all you got to do is kick) Cundiff...
Nobody has said anything about our kicking game just our special teams in general but does the club need to go out and get a kicker? I think when a kicker misses field goals they should make (40 yard and less) that is a huge momentum stopper. A team drives down the field to at least earn the 3 points they deserve and come away empty. Hartley at least makes the ones he should.
Nobody has said anything about our kicking game just our special teams in general but does the club need to go out and get a kicker? I think when a kicker misses field goals they should make (40 yard and less) that is a huge momentum stopper. A team drives down the field to at least earn the 3 points they deserve and come away empty. Hartley at least makes the ones he should.
No doubt, field position is big to us with our offense that can't get 1st downs at the worst time. Colts got the ball back due to 3 and outs. Hartley sign 2 year till 2016 and we signed a kid from Vandy Casey after the season. Hartley on kickoff's cannot reach the end zone, so that tells me no leg strength on long FG's. At this point, 2 Good K in Draft, but as road workers say "to many holes to fill overnite" and Rnds. 5,6 and 7 with a K on the board will get overrode for other needs. It's more than likely to be the "After Dawson Plan". Auditions will include FA's and cuts from other teams. Hope for better than Hartley or your's and our Field position nightmare's may continue...
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I think we look to bring in some competition at the position. Possibly draft one. I know Gumby thinks we won't draft one in the later rounds, but in the scheme of things, what's better when you have a need, the 27th best linebacker or DT or the 1st or 2nd best kicker prospect? Which guy stands the best chance of sticking and making a positive impact on the team?
I have no problem drafting a kicker. I don't know all the kicker prospects, but if the kid is good, I have no problem plucking one in the 3rd-4th round. Kickers are pretty easy to guage, and if you get your guy, you can possibly keep him 22 years. You don't get that at many positions.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I think we look to bring in some competition at the position. Possibly draft one. I know Gumby thinks we won't draft one in the later rounds, but in the scheme of things, what's better when you have a need, the 27th best linebacker or DT or the 1st or 2nd best kicker prospect? Which guy stands the best chance of sticking and making a positive impact on the team?
I have no problem drafting a kicker. I don't know all the kicker prospects, but if the kid is good, I have no problem plucking one in the 3rd-4th round. Kickers are pretty easy to guage, and if you get your guy, you can possibly keep him 22 years. You don't get that at many positions.
I think we look to bring in some competition at the position. Possibly draft one. I know Gumby thinks we won't draft one in the later rounds, but in the scheme of things, what's better when you have a need, the 27th best linebacker or DT or the 1st or 2nd best kicker prospect? Which guy stands the best chance of sticking and making a positive impact on the team?
I have no problem drafting a kicker. I don't know all the kicker prospects, but if the kid is good, I have no problem plucking one in the 3rd-4th round. Kickers are pretty easy to guage, and if you get your guy, you can possibly keep him 22 years. You don't get that at many positions.
I just like the idea of us getting an above average kicker. Get a good kicker and they will pay dividends for many years.
," but in the scheme of things, what's better when you have a need, the 27th best linebacker or DT or the 1st or 2nd best kicker prospect? Which guy stands the best chance of sticking and making a positive impact on the team?"
I agree .
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I'll play the devil's advocate here.
The Browns went 2-7 against teams which finished the season with a >.500 record, 5-2 against teams which finished with a <.500 record.
Out of the 16 games next season, 5 of them are against teams which won 8 games or fewer this season. Of these 5, San Francisco is a big question mark and beating the Rams in St Louis is always a tough ask. Of the remaining 11 games, 9 of them are against playoff teams and the remaining two, Chargers and Chiefs (9 win teams), are both on the road.
If the Browns don't improve their play against teams with a winning record, I'm afraid they'll struggle to even match this season's record.
I'll play the devil's advocate here.
The Browns went 2-7 against teams which finished the season with a >.500 record, 5-2 against teams which finished with a <.500 record.
Out of the 16 games next season, 5 of them are against teams which won 8 games or fewer this season. Of these 5, San Francisco is a big question mark and beating the Rams in St Louis is always a tough ask. Of the remaining 11 games, 9 of them are against playoff teams and the remaining two, Chargers and Chiefs (9 win teams), are both on the road.
If the Browns don't improve their play against teams with a winning record, I'm afraid they'll struggle to even match this season's record.
It is a lot tougher schedule but I am also looking at how the Browns compare to the other teams in our division and I saw all the teams in our division as being bunched together with no team standing head and shoulders over any other team.
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I think we look to bring in some competition at the position. Possibly draft one. I know Gumby thinks we won't draft one in the later rounds, but in the scheme of things, what's better when you have a need, the 27th best linebacker or DT or the 1st or 2nd best kicker prospect? Which guy stands the best chance of sticking and making a positive impact on the team?
I have no problem drafting a kicker. I don't know all the kicker prospects, but if the kid is good, I have no problem plucking one in the 3rd-4th round. Kickers are pretty easy to guage, and if you get your guy, you can possibly keep him 22 years. You don't get that at many positions.
I think we look to bring in some competition at the position. Possibly draft one. I know Gumby thinks we won't draft one in the later rounds, but in the scheme of things, what's better when you have a need, the 27th best linebacker or DT or the 1st or 2nd best kicker prospect? Which guy stands the best chance of sticking and making a positive impact on the team?
I have no problem drafting a kicker. I don't know all the kicker prospects, but if the kid is good, I have no problem plucking one in the 3rd-4th round. Kickers are pretty easy to guage, and if you get your guy, you can possibly keep him 22 years. You don't get that at many positions.
Totally agree- as long as you don't go Al Davis and draft Janikowski or Guy in the first round.
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@douche-nozzle said:
Come on man, you can't possibly believe this? If Shani was the dysfunction then the Browns should be good to go now that he is gone......right? No Josh Gordon dysfunction.....no Johnny Manziel dysfunction....... no QB dysfunction.......no text gate dysfunction.....no patchwork coaching staff dysfunction..... no meddling owner dysfunction.....no laughable draft history dysfunction.....
It's so Cleveland to say that the guy who wanted out was the dysfunction but the common denominator is the Browns; and they have decades of history that proves it.
If Pettine got the coaches he wanted I'm good with that. Shannahan is chronic complainer, I am not unhappy to see him gone. I don't blame the Browns for Gordon's actions. The Browns did make a terrible pick with Manziel. We have had more problems than other NFL teams in nailing down a starting quarterback. The owner is new. If he has made some mistakes I give him enough credit he will learn from them.
A huge problem for the Browns has been stability and continuity. The team of Haslam, Farmer and Pettine has been working together for a year. I want to see where we are at in three years.
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@douche-nozzle said:
Every team in the NFL has injuries every year. If you could look at the Browns from the outside, it's pretty easy to see the dysfunction, you and most Browns fans simply can't look at it objectively.
We see the dysfunction in the Browns...
but all that dysfunction would go away with just 2-3 prime time players. Particularly a qb.
The Steelers are more dysfunctional. Your canning DC LeBeau when he didn't want to leave is a fuck of a lot bigger loss than our losing OC Shanahan. We had our WR get suspended for second hand smoke. Your entire backfield engaged in tag team toking.
Your rapist got over on it....and he is the sole reason essentially that your team now performs well. And that means everything.
Basically the same can be said about the Pats. Spygate, Deflategate. Triple Murderergate. But they have Tom Brady...and that means everything.
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@douche-nozzle said:
Come on man, you can't possibly believe this? If Shani was the dysfunction then the Browns should be good to go now that he is gone......right? No Josh Gordon dysfunction.....no Johnny Manziel dysfunction....... no QB dysfunction.......no text gate dysfunction.....no patchwork coaching staff dysfunction..... no meddling owner dysfunction.....no laughable draft history dysfunction.....
It's so Cleveland to say that the guy who wanted out was the dysfunction but the common denominator is the Browns; and they have decades of history that proves it.
Again, no bigger problems than your team and others have. But whattayou got that we ain't got?
A fucking franchise Quarterback.
See another thread where the Browns have had some of the most productive drafts over a few year period. Your team is more draft dysfunctional than ours.
But we don't have a fucking QB.
It makes all the difference.
You are ignorant if you think otherwise.
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@douche-nozzle said:
But the Steelers dysfunction is in your imagination and the imagination of other Browns fans, the Browns dysfunction is rampant, long standing and plain and simple fact. I know....facts are a four letter word when it comes to the Browns.
So? I just made up the arrests of Bell and Blount for smoking dope. I just made up the fact that the Steelers unceremoniously dumped a DC who is considered perhaps the best asst. coach in the history of football. I just made up the rape allegations vs. Big Rape.
I created these as figments of my imagination.
No, the Steeler dysfunction is there. It is real. Its just that you have what it takes to make up for it. A franchise QB.
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@douche-nozzle said:
Well let's see:
A long standing history of success
A long standing history a being a model franchise
A long standing history of greatness
A long standing history of contention
A long standing history of being what lesser franchises aspire to
A long standing history of consistency
I could go on but I'm sure you have already blanked out the truth and are thinking up your next foolish retort.
The Browns have had all of that in spades over what the Steelers have.
But all that don't do diddly for you, right here, right now.
Right here, right now, it is all about the QB.
Why am I not surprised that you are ignorant of that fact?
In recent years what you have had in those areas have been based on two factors: A great defense run by a great DC and a franchise QB.
Now you no longer have one of those elements.
And we shall see if the other holds up.
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@douche-nozzle said:
Give it a rest, ....
That....right there.......says it all......
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I think we look to bring in some competition at the position. Possibly draft one. I know Gumby thinks we won't draft one in the later rounds, but in the scheme of things, what's better when you have a need, the 27th best linebacker or DT or the 1st or 2nd best kicker prospect? Which guy stands the best chance of sticking and making a positive impact on the team?
I have no problem drafting a kicker. I don't know all the kicker prospects, but if the kid is good, I have no problem plucking one in the 3rd-4th round. Kickers are pretty easy to guage, and if you get your guy, you can possibly keep him 22 years. You don't get that at many positions.
Totally agree- as long as you don't go Al Davis and draft Janikowski or Guy in the first round.
Totally agree- as long as you don't go Al Davis and draft Janikowski or Guy in the first round.
I agree with that, but then again, I would be hard pressed to say either was a blown pick. That said, I would probably be uncomfortable if we selected one in the 3rd and probably wouldn't care much if we selected one in the 4th, and am totally good using a 5th rounder on a kicker.
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I think we look to bring in some competition at the position. Possibly draft one. I know Gumby thinks we won't draft one in the later rounds, but in the scheme of things, what's better when you have a need, the 27th best linebacker or DT or the 1st or 2nd best kicker prospect? Which guy stands the best chance of sticking and making a positive impact on the team?
I have no problem drafting a kicker. I don't know all the kicker prospects, but if the kid is good, I have no problem plucking one in the 3rd-4th round. Kickers are pretty easy to guage, and if you get your guy, you can possibly keep him 22 years. You don't get that at many positions.
Totally agree- as long as you don't go Al Davis and draft Janikowski or Guy in the first round.
Totally agree- as long as you don't go Al Davis and draft Janikowski or Guy in the first round.
Yeah that'd suck to have the best kicker in the NFL for 12 years. ...
WSS
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