Jonathan Paul Manziel
-
It's Haslam and Farmer who set us back, in believing Manziel was such a good idea.
I like the owner's heart to win; I hope he is learning on the job. Farmer has a ways to go to prove worthy as GM, and my decision's set - he is not there. The texting was telling; he's in over his head. There is a place on staff for a guy that scouts SOME positions well.... and it's not GM. The Browns cannot afford the 6-10 year learning curve Farmer requires to be an adept GM.
It's Haslam and Farmer who set us back, in believing Manziel was such a good idea.
I like the owner's heart to win; I hope he is learning on the job. Farmer has a ways to go to prove worthy as GM, and my decision's set - he is not there. The texting was telling; he's in over his head. There is a place on staff for a guy that scouts SOME positions well.... and it's not GM. The Browns cannot afford the 6-10 year learning curve Farmer requires to be an adept GM.
The definition of insanity is to continue to do the same thing over and over again when it proves never to work. I was listening to the Buffalo GM yesterday on NFL radio discuss how they are turning that franchise around even with an underperforming 1st rd. QB. He said their plan this past year was to build the D from the inside out and that their plan for this year was to build their O from the inside out and just hope for the best at QB. The following year if it appears the QB then needs to be addressed, they will then go for it. But he made it clear they want to give their current QB's a chance to improve with vastly superior players both sides of the ball first.
For the Browns to be chasing yet another GM and yet another QB is the definition of Browns insanity. What has it done since 1999? Not a fucking thing. Stick to the long term plan-build that D and continue with that OL. Chase the QB some other year when everything is in place for success if current ones just don't cut it with a rebuilt team.
-
Time to reiterate my 3-way?
Browns to TB (or TN): #12 and #19
Philly to Browns: Cox (DT) and Foles
Philly to TB (or TN): #12, #19 and #20
TB (or TN) to Philly: #1 (or #2)
"More likely" to occur with TN at the #2 slot assuming TB takes Jameis #1 overall, then:
- TN rides with Mettenberger and has three top 20 picks to fill needs in a draft deep in OL, DL and WR.
- Chip gets his guy.
- We get an elite, proven at the Pro level, DT and a QB awaiting confirmation of his franchise promise.
Time to reiterate my 3-way?
Browns to TB (or TN): #12 and #19
Philly to Browns: Cox (DT) and Foles
Philly to TB (or TN): #12, #19 and #20
TB (or TN) to Philly: #1 (or #2)
"More likely" to occur with TN at the #2 slot assuming TB takes Jameis #1 overall, then:
- TN rides with Mettenberger and has three top 20 picks to fill needs in a draft deep in OL, DL and WR.
- Chip gets his guy.
- We get an elite, proven at the Pro level, DT and a QB awaiting confirmation of his franchise promise.
To quote Arte Johnson from the old Laugh In show, "Interesting. Verrry interesting".
Mike
-
Time to reiterate my 3-way?
Browns to TB (or TN): #12 and #19
Philly to Browns: Cox (DT) and Foles
Philly to TB (or TN): #12, #19 and #20
TB (or TN) to Philly: #1 (or #2)
"More likely" to occur with TN at the #2 slot assuming TB takes Jameis #1 overall, then:
- TN rides with Mettenberger and has three top 20 picks to fill needs in a draft deep in OL, DL and WR.
- Chip gets his guy.
- We get an elite, proven at the Pro level, DT and a QB awaiting confirmation of his franchise promise.
This is very intriguing.
Cleveland would receive their possible franchise quarterback as well as a talented player for the DT/DE position, just like if they had taken these two positions with these two picks.
Philadelphia gets their quarterback to replace Foles and loses only one draft pick, allowing them to replace their DT/DE vacancy in the second round.
Tennessee receives a boatload of first round picks which they could turn into three very solid players. (Although I'd personally turn one of those first round picks into an extra second round pick this year, an extra second round next year, and maybe a depth player?)
I could see Tennessee agreeing to three first round picks this year. I could see Cleveland agreeing to Foles and Cox. I don't think I could see Philly agreeing to losing Cox, Foles and a first round pick solely for Mariota. At the very least, I could see a few later round picks also thrown into this mix just for balancing.
I could see Tennessee agreeing to three first round picks this year. I could see Cleveland agreeing to Foles and Cox. I don't think I could see Philly agreeing to losing Cox, Foles and a first round pick solely for Mariota. At the very least, I could see a few later round picks also thrown into this mix just for balancing.
Obviously it's predicated on Chip not just loving MM, but being obsessed with "the perfect guy to run his offense". Then since Chip does not have the pick ammo to move up, he has to use whatever he has of value and Cox heads that list. I think its plausible for that reason. But as you say a little sweetener here or there might be needed for balance.
The problem I see is that TN has to not be interested in a straight swap of their #2 overall to Philly for Cox, Foles and Philly's #20. If they did this though and then offered Foles to us, then that'd be OK, too.
-
Article on George Whitfield's opinion about JM:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/02/qb_guru_george_whitfield_confi.html
-
Article on George Whitfield's opinion about JM:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/02/qb_guru_george_whitfield_confi.html
Article on George Whitfield's opinion about JM:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/02/qb_guru_george_whitfield_confi.html
I'm pulling for him. I would love to see JM make it work. I don't think anyone really knows right now but at least I think we are going to see JM at 100 percent this time.
-
Article on George Whitfield's opinion about JM:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/02/qb_guru_george_whitfield_confi.html
Article on George Whitfield's opinion about JM:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/02/qb_guru_george_whitfield_confi.html
Good read, but I was not sure how to take this bit on us hiring O'Connell...
"It just made sense,'' said Whitfield of the former dual threat quarterback and third-round pick of the Patriots working with Manziel. "A lot of people have x's and o's information, and a lot of people know the game and understand it all, but there are very few who can take material this thick, cut it down so it transfers in smoothly to a young student, especially a young guy like Johnny.
Sounds too much like bringing the work load down to the level of effort JM is willing to give.
-
Article on George Whitfield's opinion about JM:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/02/qb_guru_george_whitfield_confi.html
I'm pulling for him. I would love to see JM make it work. I don't think anyone really knows right now but at least I think we are going to see JM at 100 percent this time.
I would love to see JM make it work. I don't think anyone really knows right now but at least I think we are going to see JM at 100 percent this time.
I would too. At this point he is off my radar, so ANYTHING positive from him would be good......I did compare him to some of the other recent QB busts and think(hope) he has the nads to do better.......
J. Russell?.....Didn't give a shit.....I think JM wants it WAY more than he ever did....
Leaf?..............Simply couldn't handle the pressure and spotlight.....but JM thrives in the spotlight....
Tebow?..........Coudnt throw............Johnny can...
So compared to these failures, I still think Johnny can come around and has some of the stuff these others didnt have.....
But, the one guy that I worry he'll end up like is Todd Marinovich.....lets hope he's not....
Sounds too much like bringing the work load down to the level of effort JM is willing to give.
Thats one possibility.....kinda sounds that way......or....
Another perspective is Loggains wasn't a good teacher.....had the info, but couldnt convey it....
-
Article on George Whitfield's opinion about JM:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/02/qb_guru_george_whitfield_confi.html
Good read, but I was not sure how to take this bit on us hiring O'Connell...
"It just made sense,'' said Whitfield of the former dual threat quarterback and third-round pick of the Patriots working with Manziel. "A lot of people have x's and o's information, and a lot of people know the game and understand it all, but there are very few who can take material this thick, cut it down so it transfers in smoothly to a young student, especially a young guy like Johnny.
Sounds too much like bringing the work load down to the level of effort JM is willing to give.
Good read, but I was not sure how to take this bit on us hiring O'Connell...
"It just made sense,'' said Whitfield of the former dual threat quarterback and third-round pick of the Patriots working with Manziel. "A lot of people have x's and o's information, and a lot of people know the game and understand it all, but there are very few who can take material this thick, cut it down so it transfers in smoothly to a young student, especially a young guy like Johnny.
Sounds too much like bringing the work load down to the level of effort JM is willing to give.
I took that to mean he could teach it in an understandable, absorbable way so that a QB is not overwhelmed by "thinking", but can get out there and use his abilities within what he has learned thus far. Then continue to add pieces as the QB grows into the role. That makes sense for any rookie or near rookie QB trying to play in the NFL.
-
Good read, but I was not sure how to take this bit on us hiring O'Connell...
"It just made sense,'' said Whitfield of the former dual threat quarterback and third-round pick of the Patriots working with Manziel. "A lot of people have x's and o's information, and a lot of people know the game and understand it all, but there are very few who can take material this thick, cut it down so it transfers in smoothly to a young student, especially a young guy like Johnny.
Sounds too much like bringing the work load down to the level of effort JM is willing to give.
I took that to mean he could teach it in an understandable, absorbable way so that a QB is not overwhelmed by "thinking", but can get out there and use his abilities within what he has learned thus far. Then continue to add pieces as the QB grows into the role. That makes sense for any rookie or near rookie QB trying to play in the NFL.
I took that to mean he could teach it in an understandable, absorbable way so that a QB is not overwhelmed by "thinking", but can get out there and use his abilities within what he has learned thus far. Then continue to add pieces as the QB grows into the role. That makes sense for any rookie or near rookie QB trying to play in the NFL.
That's how i took it as well. Reminds me of when I was an avid golfer back in the late '80s. I took lessons from 3 different PGA Pros trying to get consistent off the tee. The 3rd one, Jay Spitale from Canton, had me consistently drawing the ball in 2 lessons (dropped me to a 6 handicap). All 3 were trying to get me to do the same thing, but only Jay was able to communicate it in terms that not only made sense to me, but that I was able to absorb & execute.
Mike
-
The probability is low, but anything is possible.
Before this past college season, how many of you on this forum would have bet that OSU would be called for a total of 2 holding penalties all year?
Yet, that's exactly what happened.
People can change ; people can mature unexpectedly quickly.
-
I never followed Manziel much in college (busy watching the Buckeyes and Notre Dame). I have since gone back and watched a number of videos and I just keep thinking he is capable of much more than I saw out of him this year. Maybe he needed rehab earlier? Something was wrong. His quickness was off for one thing. At first I thought it was the faster speed of the NFL but maybe he was overwhelmed with trying to "think" through plays instead of it just being natural? Maybe with the right coaching he can be an NFL quarterback? He has a good arm. He should be a good scrambling QB. I know we cannot depend on JM at this point but it will be interesting to see how he responds his next go at it.
-
-
When JM comes back it would be nice to see the media give him some space and back off a bit and let him ease back into playing football. It won't happen. The media circus will swarm like vultures. I hate seeing the distraction but it won't be JM's fault this time.
-
When JM comes back it would be nice to see the media give him some space and back off a bit and let him ease back into playing football. It won't happen. The media circus will swarm like vultures. I hate seeing the distraction but it won't be JM's fault this time.
I hate seeing the distraction but it won't be JM's fault this time.
I sure hope you are right about this!
-
I hate seeing the distraction but it won't be JM's fault this time.
I sure hope you are right about this!
I sure hope you are right about this!
Getting off the roller coaster circus and into rehab is the best thing for JM. The fact he went in before the super bowl and turned down a six figure salary to host a super bowl party in Vegas tells me he is serious about this.
-
what he, or anybody else who's expected to be the starter, needs is to be named the starter and given the reps. We dick around with quarterback competitions every year and the outcome is always stupid. Last year Brandon Weeden look best. After him was Jason Campbell. And then Brian Hoyer. So I don't put much stock in the competition. You look good at practice? Well great. When you suck on the field we throw somebody in who's completely unprepared.
WSS
-
Apparently we're not the only ones whipping up these scenarios. Here's an interesting one...
http://dawgpounddaily.com/2015/02/21/nfl-draft-browns-jets-eagles-draft-day-trade-scenario/
In a nutshell it's:
- MM falls to Jets at #6.
- We trade our 12 and 19 to Jets for MM.
- We trade MM to Chip for their #20, Foles, and other 2015 and future picks... or, worst case, end up with MM.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Apparently we're not the only ones whipping up these scenarios. Here's an interesting one...
http://dawgpounddaily.com/2015/02/21/nfl-draft-browns-jets-eagles-draft-day-trade-scenario/
In a nutshell it's:
- MM falls to Jets at #6.
- We trade our 12 and 19 to Jets for MM.
- We trade MM to Chip for their #20, Foles, and other 2015 and future picks... or, worst case, end up with MM.
Apparently we're not the only ones whipping up these scenarios. Here's an interesting one...
http://dawgpounddaily.com/2015/02/21/nfl-draft-browns-jets-eagles-draft-day-trade-scenario/
In a nutshell it's:
- MM falls to Jets at #6.
- We trade our 12 and 19 to Jets for MM.
- We trade MM to Chip for their #20, Foles, and other 2015 and future picks... or, worst case, end up with MM.
That would definitely be an insane situation thus I don't ever see it happening.
-
Apparently we're not the only ones whipping up these scenarios. Here's an interesting one...
http://dawgpounddaily.com/2015/02/21/nfl-draft-browns-jets-eagles-draft-day-trade-scenario/
In a nutshell it's:
- MM falls to Jets at #6.
- We trade our 12 and 19 to Jets for MM.
- We trade MM to Chip for their #20, Foles, and other 2015 and future picks... or, worst case, end up with MM.
That would definitely be an insane situation thus I don't ever see it happening.
That would definitely be an insane situation thus I don't ever see it happening.
LOL... it is a little reminiscent of a Sonny move in Draft Day...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Apparently we're not the only ones whipping up these scenarios. Here's an interesting one...
http://dawgpounddaily.com/2015/02/21/nfl-draft-browns-jets-eagles-draft-day-trade-scenario/
In a nutshell it's:
- MM falls to Jets at #6.
- We trade our 12 and 19 to Jets for MM.
- We trade MM to Chip for their #20, Foles, and other 2015 and future picks... or, worst case, end up with MM.
<p>
Apparently we're not the only ones whipping up these scenarios. Here's an interesting one...
http://dawgpounddaily.com/2015/02/21/nfl-draft-browns-jets-eagles-draft-day-trade-scenario/
In a nutshell it's:
- MM falls to Jets at #6.
- We trade our 12 and 19 to Jets for MM.
- We trade MM to Chip for their #20, Foles, and other 2015 and future picks... or, worst case, end up with MM.
Sounds like we'd be moving up on behalf of the Iggles because they don't have the ammo. In which case, I also want their 2nd rounder this year.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better đ
Register Login