Pull the trigger on Kevin White!

Flugel

Pretty interesting that we're both in a thread about Kevin White where my first post was we can prolly get a nice bargain with Perriman in round 2. Bigger picture? There's a reason a lot of people want to add scoring threats to an offense that looks to be in another very delicate QB situation like opening the 2007 season seemed to be. While that season was the last time Braylon Edwards prioritized football over partying and Joe Jurevicius suiting up - putting the scoring potential on the perimeter while giving CPR to Jamal Lewis' career - sure helped get 29 TD passes under DA's belt (w/ 20 TD receptions to our WR Corps). That kind of help at least got DA a new contract that Hoyer won't get even IF LeCharles Bentley never got past the first day of training camp. Hank Fraley was a God Send that played like a poor man's Alex Mack from making all the line calls to pulling from his center position.

1 year later, we had all the same blockers and Jamal but the situation on the perimeter reflected Braylon's interest like 2014 reflected Gordon's interest after total contentment with only 1 Pro Bowl with all that talent. Sound like an ad for toilet paper? It should.

It's not rocket science. If you don't have enough guys that can score TDs outside - our blue collar route that has often included 2 olinemen with Pro Bowls/ Pro Bowl Alternates can end up meaning as little as 4-5 wins in remaining 1 dimensional. This keeps our 5-6 blockers upfront outnumbered by 8-9 men in the box. When we can't make pay they'll stay. Another QB will end up getting scapegoated out of town. How many more times do we need to see the sequel before we all understand it as a consensus?

calfoxwc

Professor Flugels strikes again.

Btw, the Bengals have given up on Greg Little, too.

Passes drop off him like they were thrown at a brick wall.....

Canton Mike

@calfoxwc said:

Professor Flugels strikes again.

Btw, the Bengals have given up on Greg Little, too.

Passes drop off him like they were thrown at a brick wall.....

Whaddya mean Mike? Passes HAVE been thrown at a "Little" brick wall.....His most logical next venture is only natural...

Greg Little Masonry Co. LOL

Mike

LogicIsForSquares

Flugel could be outlining the cure to cancer in one of his extended opinion pieces but I would never know.

miktoxic

when my woman starts yappin like that i just leave the room.

Browns_Fucking_Rule

I don't think adding a wr early in the draft is very important or even that helpful at this point. And I also don't think it would have helped us out that much last year. It might have made us a little better, but not much... I think we need to do a better job getting wr's via free agency... there seems to be a few to be had in the market this year. We don't need world beaters, just solid players who can get open and catch the ball when it is thrown to them. Like many, I think paying the price for a super star wideout should come after your team is already built and you are just needing that last little bit to push you over the top.

calfoxwc

My guess is, it's Shelton if he's there, or

one of the top three wr's if he's already been picked.

Then Malcolm Brown. Or... maybe Malcolm Brown with the first pick,

and one of the top three, or Strong for a wr pick.

They may very well pick another wr later, but they need a dynamic difference maker

who catches the ball, is quick to get open off the los, and can take off.

It's a nice draft to nab a very solid RT/LT with the second round pick.

Sure, it would be nice to just get Agholor sp? with the second pick, but don't bet on him

being there.

Unsympathetic

Flugel, you're wrong. Get over it. Tour2ma is far, far more accurate than you in analyzing the usefulness and importance of OL.

WR are shiny hood ornaments and entirely inconsequential to the success of an offense. Deal with it. Or, you know, prove me wrong using statistics.. not with inaccurate regurgitated "EVERYONE KNOWZ" drivel. The obligation is on you to PROVE your assertion.. little man.

Your first hint: McCown had TWO tall, fast [one 1st round, 1 second round] WR last year.. and they both had great fantasy stats.. and what was the Bucs record again?

Can't wait to see you use zero statistics in your failure of a reply.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@unsympathetic said:

Flugel, you're wrong. Get over it. Tour2ma is far, far more accurate than you in analyzing the usefulness and importance of OL.

WR are shiny hood ornaments and entirely inconsequential to the success of an offense. Deal with it. Or, you know, prove me wrong using statistics.. not with inaccurate regurgitated "EVERYONE KNOWZ" drivel. The obligation is on you to PROVE your assertion.. little man.

Your first hint: McCown had TWO tall, fast [one 1st round, 1 second round] WR last year.. and they both had great fantasy stats.. and what was the Bucs record again?

Can't wait to see you use zero statistics in your failure of a reply.

He also had two tall wide receivers in Chicago.

Marshall - 6'4" - 4th round

Jeffery - 6' 3" - 2nd round

And two tall receivers in Arizona.

Fitzgerald- 6'3"- 1st round

Boldin- 6'1" - 2nd round

And two tall receivers in Oakland.

Porter - 6'2" - 2nd round

Curry - 6'2" - 7th round

Now he has:

Hawkins - 5'7" - undrafted

Gabriel - 5'8" - undrafted

I don't know what the argument was/is between you guys and I don't really care to go back and read it. I'm not debating whether or not OL or WR are more important, nor am I trying to peg what our needs are based off of one FA signing.

All I'm saying is that, based off of what McCown has had in the past, it would stand to reason that we'd at least bring in one guy over 6'1 to compete. Whether that's a mid-level FA guy or a high draft pick, I don't know. I'd like to go White if he were there at 12, but I think I'd rather go Perriman if he were there in the second.

el_osoalto

I don't think McCown throwing to Kevin White is gonna keep us out of the top 15 in next year's draft...

calfoxwc

Not that alone, but it would go a long, long way towards making the

offense rock.

And, just so a few folks get corrected...

Flugels was an offensive lineman, and he has known his stuff

for many years. He was really watching oline play from years ago.

Stats are for arguers with no legitmate clue. Phil Savage was a stats guy.

Let's take a look at Phil Savage's draft picks, using all his stats:

Yep. Phil Savage, the bigtime stats guy.

Drafted: (their college stats were so good)

Brady Quinn (traded a second rounder for Corey Williams,

third rounder for Shaun Rogers, leaving the Browns with no choices

in the first three rounds)

and, Charlie Frye of Akron in the third round. Wowee, Phil Savage.

You just keep going with stats.

and Travis Wilson, wr, with two catches in 2006.

then, with Baltimore, under Ozzie, savage got....

rb Jay Graham, rb Musa Smith, qb Chris Redman... OL Casey Rabach, and

Devard Darling.

In conclusion, Tour spouting off about this and that with stats, is just

almost kinda sorta amusing in a bland, boring kind of way.

I'd have Flugels drafting for my team. Unsympatico can have Tour and stats. and Brady Quinn as their qb.

tiamat63

@calfoxwc said:

Not that alone, but it would go a long, long way towards making the

offense rock.

And, just so a few folks get corrected...

Flugels was an offensive lineman, and he has known his stuff

for many years. He was really watching oline play from years ago.

Stats are for arguers with no legitmate clue. Phil Savage was a stats guy.

Let's take a look at Phil Savage's draft picks, using all his stats:

Yep. Phil Savage, the bigtime stats guy.

Drafted: (their college stats were so good)

Brady Quinn (traded a second rounder for Corey Williams,

third rounder for Shaun Rogers, leaving the Browns with no choices

in the first three rounds)

and, Charlie Frye of Akron in the third round. Wowee, Phil Savage.

You just keep going with stats.

and Travis Wilson, wr, with two catches in 2006.

then, with Baltimore, under Ozzie, savage got....

rb Jay Graham, rb Musa Smith, qb Chris Redman... OL Casey Rabach, and

Devard Darling.

In conclusion, Tour spouting off about this and that with stats, is just

almost kinda sorta amusing in a bland, boring kind of way.

I'd have Flugels drafting for my team. Unsympatico can have Tour and stats. and Brady Quinn as their qb.

Stats in the NFL are hard to argue which Tour provides and I myself have linked regarding our Oline.

Your attempt at shamming by which claiming that Tour would take certain college players contradicts damn near everything I've seen from him. Best example: Schreff has great stats (lack of, really) and neither he nor myself see a future NFL tackle. The popular opinion on him is beginning to shift as well.

miktoxic

people argue all the time on here but it usually doesn't take 10 paragraphs to make your point.

just tell them to screw off and be done with it.

Flugel

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

He also had two tall wide receivers in Chicago.

Marshall - 6'4" - 4th round

Jeffery - 6' 3" - 2nd round

And two tall receivers in Arizona.

Fitzgerald- 6'3"- 1st round

Boldin- 6'1" - 2nd round

And two tall receivers in Oakland.

Porter - 6'2" - 2nd round

Curry - 6'2" - 7th round

Now he has:

Hawkins - 5'7" - undrafted

Gabriel - 5'8" - undrafted

I don't know what the argument was/is between you guys and I don't really care to go back and read it. I'm not debating whether or not OL or WR are more important, nor am I trying to peg what our needs are based off of one FA signing.

All I'm saying is that, based off of what McCown has had in the past, it would stand to reason that we'd at least bring in one guy over 6'1 to compete. Whether that's a mid-level FA guy or a high draft pick, I don't know. I'd like to go White if he were there at 12, but I think I'd rather go Perriman if he were there in the second.

This was my first post in this thread way back on page 2:

Breshad Perriman is a intriguing junior that will probably be on our doorstep in round 2. He's 6-3 and 214 pounds. His father was an NFL WR (Brett Perriman). I didn't really know a lot about this kid until I heard Greg Cosell raving about him for most of the portion he talked WRs as a featured guest on Nashville radio. I found some reasons why I would bet on this horse in no particular order:

1) Good bloodline

2) Ideal size our red zone offense and perimeter lacks.

3) Productive in terms of yards per catch, TDs and yardage

4) Separates almost effortlessly

5) We don't have to use our 1st pick or even our 2nd pick to land this guy

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@calfoxwc said:

Not that alone, but it would go a long, long way towards making the

offense rock.

And, just so a few folks get corrected...

Flugels was an offensive lineman, and he has known his stuff

for many years. He was really watching oline play from years ago.

Stats are for arguers with no legitmate clue. Phil Savage was a stats guy.

Let's take a look at Phil Savage's draft picks, using all his stats:

Yep. Phil Savage, the bigtime stats guy.

Drafted: (their college stats were so good)

Brady Quinn (traded a second rounder for Corey Williams,

third rounder for Shaun Rogers, leaving the Browns with no choices

in the first three rounds)

and, Charlie Frye of Akron in the third round. Wowee, Phil Savage.

You just keep going with stats.

and Travis Wilson, wr, with two catches in 2006.

then, with Baltimore, under Ozzie, savage got....

rb Jay Graham, rb Musa Smith, qb Chris Redman... OL Casey Rabach, and

Devard Darling.

In conclusion, Tour spouting off about this and that with stats, is just

almost kinda sorta amusing in a bland, boring kind of way.

I'd have Flugels drafting for my team. Unsympatico can have Tour and stats. and Brady Quinn as their qb.

I normally agree with you, Cal, but this may have been one of your most ill-informed posts ever.

Saying Tour is wrong because Phil Savage liked stats is like saying Brandon Weeden is wrong because Ron Howard has red hair. Savage was a stats guy and he was also a gut drafter which is a bad combination, because then you can manipulate whichever stats you'd like to suit your argument.

Stats are just as important in the scouting process, but can't be looked at in a bubble. They can give you a small insight into what a prospect can be, like looking through a keyhole of a door to see what's on the other side.

And maybe you'll take my opinion better since I, too, was an offensive lineman in college.

calfoxwc

Actually, Perriman is skyrocketing to late first round. I predict the Brown will package

their 2nd rounder, and whatever else it usually takes, and they will move back up into

the first round ahead of denver and the patriots etc...

to pick Perriman. He's going to be worth it.

Shelton

T. J. Cummings

Perriman

that would rock.

calfoxwc

And maybe you'll take my opinion better since I, too, was an offensive lineman in college. Couch

******************************************************

Oh, I just have run into Tour and his stats that make him think he shouldn't be disagreed with.

I just think stats are for the birds, most of the time, and character, love for the game, toughness,

football iq makes for a better player to draft. Stats... Mike Junkin had great stats. Trent Richardson had

great stats.

Just my stupid opinion. and yes, you and Flugels will know about oline play, and I never played, and

I generally listen pretty well to guys who know a good bit from experience.......so

my stupid opinions are more for fun than anything else. Sure, the combine is important...but only a small

part of what I would be looking for if I'm scouting. My stupid mock drafts are every bit as wrong as everybody elses,

so.........

Flugel

@calfoxwc said:

Actually, Perriman is skyrocketing to late first round. I predict the Brown will package

their 2nd rounder, and whatever else it usually takes, and they will move back up into

the first round ahead of denver and the patriots etc...

to pick Perriman. He's going to be worth it.

Shelton

T. J. Cummings

Perriman

that would rock.

Hopefully there will be a run on defensive players that could put Perriman or a comparable WR on our doorstep in round 2. Another thing that could put him on our doorstep is if his hammy doesn't heal before his workout or well enough for a first round 40 time.

On the oline, we have 2 first round investments, 2 second round investments, a much improved Greco at RG and we added Michael Bowie. According to my preseason publication for 2014, it indicated Michael Bowie started 9 games in 2013 at 3 different positions on the oline for the Superbowl Champion Seahawks. My hope is we'll get back to being able to draft good offensive lineman later in the draft like when we found Cody Riesen in round 7, Doug Dieken in round 6, and Paul Farren in round 12 while guys like Tony Jones and Orlando Brown were undrafted FAs.

Flugel

@miktoxic said:

people argue all the time on here but it usually doesn't take 10 paragraphs to make your point.

just tell them to screw off and be done with it.

I just re-showed my first post in this thread before I morphed into the Cliff Clavin you describe here. Cliff's notes didn't work. Understanding we're coming off a volume of 8 TD receptions from the WR Corps up against our 2015 QB situation - I thought adding a big target in the WR Corps would make this a little easier on our next QB. Since we all know and understand the Alex Mack dynamic returns to our offense - the reality exists that we still need to pose a threat of throwing TD passes in the red zone or the rushing TDs will turn right back into playing for FGs as the year progresses (even with Alex). That's about the time you'll begin to hear people expressing how much they miss Phil Dawson's range of 50-60 yard FGs again. You gotta have a dual threat or stopping our 1 dimension in a division with 3 playoff teams will keep us 2-4 inside our division.

Some of the replies to people wanting a WR in this thread were Atlanta and Tampa didn't win despite what they added to the WR position. Very true; BUT we have witnessed first hand that AJ Green and Co have carried a very mediocre QB to the playoffs almost every year since Green arrived. The difference between Cincy and Atl is one team had the running game to give them a more balanced attack. When Cincy does get IN the red Zone, look at the size of their targets they opted to make life easier on Dalton with...

Last but not least, I earned the village idiot hat in this thread for how I treated Tour. Regardless of who was doing the better job articulating their point - I didn't need to jump all over the guy the way I did. The level of respect he's earned and continues to command in here speaks for itself even though I appreciate Cal having my back. Plenty of exciting football topics to talk moving forward - in under 10 paragraphs...

Tour2ma

@calfoxwc said:
Stats are for arguers with no legitmate clue.

I had not realized that your stat/fact free life included football as well. My bad...

@calfoxwc said:

And maybe you'll take my opinion better since I, too, was an offensive lineman in college. Couch

******************************************************

Oh, I just have run into Tour and his stats that make him think he shouldn't be disagreed with.

Just my stupid opinion.

In my experience stupid opinions can be improved with thought...

Also in my experience it's not facts that are boring; it's agreement.

I actually have no issues when folks disagree with what I say... sometimes, however, I will take exception with the manner they disagree. What you think is reaction to disagreement is more often than not simply explanation of my rationale or examination of the other party's rationale.

Oh... and I played a little O-line myself. Not very gifted athletically, but coaches considered me to be a good technician and a strong "student of the game".