Farmer suspended first 4 games of season, fined $250k
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I think Gilbert will still improve a lot, that's a guy to definitely remain positive about. But I'm not buying the glass half full bs on Manziel for a damn second...We took the bait and for some fans it's easier on the ego to hold onto false hope than to call a spade a spade. Dysfunctional person, small hands, terrible decision making, throws absolute ducks, can be sacked with one hand while getting blocked...guys like Brees and Wilson have physical tools that Johnny doesn't, it goes beyond just saying "Oh they're the same height, Johnny can emulate what they do". The only thing NFL level about Johnny is his ability to scramble around in the pocket and extend plays just as long as a DL doesn't breathe on him and get a sack.
Johnny's game was never built for the NFL... Everybody is bigger, faster, stronger, and better coached.. db's break on his throws light years before the ball actually arrives and DL toss him to the ground with one hand while being still being blocked like they were playing with a child. These aren't typical "rookie mistakes", this is merely a player who doesn't have the physical to be effective at this level of competition. I'm not basing my entire evaluation just based on the Bengals game either, this is exactly what so many scouts predicted would happen to him at the next level since he declared.
I think Gilbert will still improve a lot, that's a guy to definitely remain positive about. But I'm not buying the glass half full bs on Manziel for a damn second...We took the bait and for some fans it's easier on the ego to hold onto false hope than to call a spade a spade. Dysfunctional person, small hands, terrible decision making, throws absolute ducks, can be sacked with one hand while getting blocked...guys like Brees and Wilson have physical tools that Johnny doesn't, it goes beyond just saying "Oh they're the same height, Johnny can emulate what they do". The only thing NFL level about Johnny is his ability to scramble around in the pocket and extend plays just as long as a DL doesn't breathe on him and get a sack.
Johnny's game was never built for the NFL... Everybody is bigger, faster, stronger, and better coached.. db's break on his throws light years before the ball actually arrives and DL toss him to the ground with one hand while being still being blocked like they were playing with a child. These aren't typical "rookie mistakes", this is merely a player who doesn't have the physical to be effective at this level of competition. I'm not basing my entire evaluation just based on the Bengals game either, this is exactly what so many scouts predicted would happen to him at the next level since he declared.
Most of your stuff I agree on- but small hands is factually wrong. Manziel has huge hands relative to his height. Bigger than the 6' 5" Blake Bortles in case you're interested. Also wears a size 15 shoe. I'm 6' 0" and wore a size 11 for many years.
BTW, when JFF bothers to actually stand in the pocket instead of toss up prayers off his back foot- he doesn't throw ducks. His arm is arguably stronger than the departed Brian Hoyer. Nah- he doesn't have a rocket launcher arm- but it's good enough. If he comes out of rehab with a serious attitude adjustment, I'm willing to give him a second chance.
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That is absolute bullshit, the kid is only 21 years old he nearly had 1000 yds playing with EJ Manuel and Thad Lewis for christ sake, you're just saying that because we passed on him and want to make yourself feel better.
The only clear cut better rookie WR was OBJ. Watkins, Evans, and Benjamin are closely grouped together in terms of long term potential after just one season. Benjamin benefited from the best QB play and offensive stability and is 3 years older than Watkins, barely out produced him. Evans racked up a lot of garbage time numbers while the Bills were actually in competitive games. Watkins is extremely young and extremely talented, we f'd up by not taking him 4th, flat out.
uh beckham jr.? yep. those guys are great. so WOULD have been mack, so WOULD have been luck, so WOULD have been rodgers, so WOULD have been marino etc. etc.
you only have so many picks per year. you can only do so much with those picks. it WOULD have been nice for the browns to select HOFers with each pick they've had over the last 15 years but farmer, lombardi or banner and the rest can't read minds nor predict the future.
let us all know when you become GOD (because obviously you know more than anyone ever who's walked on this green and blue earth), cuz i'd give you a couple thousand dollars to tell me the numbers of the next mega-millions lottery game.
idiot.
i guess you're next to join in on the bills super bowl bet this year, huh?
uh beckham jr.? yep. those guys are great. so WOULD have been mack, so WOULD have been luck, so WOULD have been rodgers, so WOULD have been marino etc. etc.
you only have so many picks per year. you can only do so much with those picks. it WOULD have been nice for the browns to select HOFers with each pick they've had over the last 15 years but farmer, lombardi or banner and the rest can't read minds nor predict the future.
let us all know when you become GOD (because obviously you know more than anyone ever who's walked on this green and blue earth), cuz i'd give you a couple thousand dollars to tell me the numbers of the next mega-millions lottery game.
idiot.
i guess you're next to join in on the bills super bowl bet this year, huh?
That is an absurd response to say the least. Saying we missed out on Watkins = declaring yourself God.. that's quite some leap you made there. Do I expect us to hit a home run on every first rounder? No, even the best GM's get it wrong sometimes. Do I expect competent decision making? Yes, that doesn't mean being perfect, that just means being logical.
Of course I don't expect us to have known OBJ would be the star that he ended up being. But I'm judging based on what we knew during the time of the draft and during that time we damn well knew Watkins was an elite talent and Gordon was fresh off a failed drug test with his long term future completely up in the air and out of our control given his track record. Watkins was viewed as being as close to a "sure thing" as you could get by the vast majority of scouts.. one of the best wr prospects in years. Not only that but at 21 years old he had so much room for further improvement on an already impressive on-field product. Watkins was viewed at the time as an essential cornerstone for an offense that could prosper for many years to come.
There's a reason Buffalo gave up what they did to get him and I'm sure they would do it all over again. I'm still pissed off about it, but I've moved on to what we can control and the past certainly isn't something in our control. It's just the notion from some fans that we didn't botch last years 1st round that is so ridiculous to me. I mean I'm all in favor of giving a draft class time to show their true potential but this is something so blatantly obvious that it only took a year to show we f'd up. If Gilbert can develop into a high end cb it will at least soften the blow, that's the only silver lining.
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I don't even understand the point you're trying to illustrate, what does playing in the snow have to do with us passing on Watkins or his long term potential?
You'll be happier with whoever we draft at wr this year? What kind of stupid angle are you trying to work with that statement? You have no idea who/when we'll draft a wr, what if we don't draft a guy until the 2nd or 3rd round. Do you realize that last year's wr class was significantly stronger? Do you realize there isn't a wr as good as Watkins in this entire draft in all likelihood? There's nothing we can do about missing out on Watkins, all we can do is move forward. But acting like it wasn't a mistake is just ridiculous. -BM-
*******************************************************
A. Cleveland is in Ohio, that's N. United States. It's snows here. And, it was fun to point out, that as I remember it, Watkins
was joking around about scary snowstorms, and playing in the snow. The point is, stop your stupid bitching over watkins.
Newsflash - he isn't with the Browns. You would do better for yourself, if you went over to the boofalo forum somewhere,
and gloated endlessly. At least you would be being a positive.
We don't know if it was a mistake, suppose the Browns go to the playoffs, and Manziel and Gilbert had
a large part of that? Then will you shut up with the watkins crap? Watkins hasn't been around long enough to say
there is no wr in this draft that can match or surpass his output this past year. Why not just run with what you
blabbered? "All we can do is move forward". Then stick a cork in it about Watkins blah blah blah, and move on already.
Oh, and read about Watkin's weaknesses back then:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1850743/sammy-watkins
WEAKNESSES: Only average height with a leaner than ideal build, lacking elite muscle definition or strength. Lacks elite speed and more of a glider. Not overly physical and won't break many tackles.
Hands are steady, but he'll have his share of focus drops, especially when he hears footsteps - a few botched returns on his resume. Room to improve his reliability on 50/50 passes. Minor durability concerns. Character needs investigated - arrested in May 2012 on drug-related charges.
COMPARES TO: Mix of Torrey Smith (Ravens) and Percy Harvin (Seahawks) - Watkins has the size and vertical ability of Smith and the acceleration, toughness and multiple gears like Harvin.
--Dane Brugler (1/5/13)
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And another thing, BM...
check this out: Not only did Watkins not score when the Bills played the Browns, he had the dropsies (see above)
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/16725/sammy-watkins
Check it out - he only had 3 receptions out of NINE FREAKING TARGETS, for a total of 11 yards, and my,
what a world beating average gain per pass - 3.7 yards. WOWEEEEE !
I rest my case. I didn't want Watkins in the first freakin place. Have a nice day.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/16725/sammy-watkins
- vs
- CLE
W 26-10 3 9 11 3.7 5
-
And another thing, BM...
check this out: Not only did Watkins not score when the Bills played the Browns, he had the dropsies (see above)
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/16725/sammy-watkins
Check it out - he only had 3 receptions out of NINE FREAKING TARGETS, for a total of 11 yards, and my,
what a world beating average gain per pass - 3.7 yards. WOWEEEEE !
I rest my case. I didn't want Watkins in the first freakin place. Have a nice day.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/16725/sammy-watkins
- vs
- CLE
W 26-10 3 9 11 3.7 5
Watkins played one game in our stadium and didn't fill up the stat sheet. Yes, he would totally have been garbage for us based on that one game. Forget the near 1000 yd season at 21 years old playing with bums at QB... you literally made a post criticizing someone based on a single game.
This is what you just did:
check this out: Aaron Rodgers only had 185 yds passing against the Bills last year
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/8439/aaron-rodgers
WOWWEEEEEEE check this out: he was 17 for 42 FREAKING TARGETS!!!
Are you kidding this Rodgers guy is trash! He threw 0 TD's and 2 INT's that game as well.
- I rest my case Aaron Rodgers is garbage. Have a nice day
-
Seriously? Sammy fucking Watkins all over again. Lock this stupid thread. But not before we take a look at the top receivers from last year's draft (in no particular order):
Beckham
Evans
Watkins
Benjamin
Matthews
Taylor Fucking Gabriel.
OK, maybe not gabriel, but the others have the potential to be game breaking receivers, and some have already shown it. Would we be a better team with one of them? Sure. Did we shit the bed by 'missing out' on Watkins? Hell no. With the trade with buffalo, we could still have had Beckham, Benjamin and Matthews. So you could *maybe* make an argument for missing out on a receiver, and many have. But singling out one of them because he was the first picked? That's bullshit - give it a rest.
-
Hundreds of opportunities to be closer to Twatkins.
WSS
-
It should be easy to decide on the whole Watkins thing.....
Right now today.....would ANYONE trade both the 12th and 19th picks for him (oh yeah, and our 4th rounder too)???.....(cause thats a little LESS than we got)....
Heck, Id rather have Kevin White and Im still undecided if Id even spend #12 alone on him.....
so.....to answer my own question.....hell no!!!!
-
HELL NO !!!
(and yet again, Steve's ZiLLOW post would have had me spitting my coffee all over my keyboard,
but I don't have cofffee on the Brownsboard anymore)
-
no,no,no...
Here is what I did, BM, now read it this time, because Aaron Rodgers has none
of the below weaknesses.
WEAKNESSES: Only average height with a leaner than ideal build, lacking elite muscle definition or strength. Lacks elite speed and more of a glider. Not overly physical and won't break many tackles.
Hands are steady, but he'll have his share of focus drops, especially when he hears footsteps - a few botched returns on his resume. Room to improve his reliability on 50/50 passes. Minor durability concerns. Character needs investigated - arrested in May 2012 on drug-related charges.
COMPARES TO: Mix of Torrey Smith (Ravens) and Percy Harvin (Seahawks) - Watkins has the size and vertical ability of Smith and the acceleration, toughness and multiple gears like Harvin.
--Dane Brugler (1/5/13)
-
It should be easy to decide on the whole Watkins thing.....
Right now today.....would ANYONE trade both the 12th and 19th picks for him (oh yeah, and our 4th rounder too)???.....(cause thats a little LESS than we got)....
Heck, Id rather have Kevin White and Im still undecided if Id even spend #12 alone on him.....
so.....to answer my own question.....hell no!!!!
Watkins.....
Right now ....would ANYONE trade both the 12th and 19th and our 4th rounder too...??
.....hell no!!!!
HELL NO !!!
no,no,no...
exactly....
here's a well put together comparison between Watkins and Cooper, which puts Cooper ahead as the better overall prospect.....
http://withthefirstpick.com/2015/03/29/2015-nfl-prospect-comparisons-amari-cooper-vs-sammy-watkins/
yet, I'll bet no one offers 2 firsts for Cooper.......(at least it wont be us)......
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That is excellent ! I'm even more impressed by Cooper now.
-
I don't even understand the point you're trying to illustrate, what does playing in the snow have to do with us passing on Watkins or his long term potential?
You'll be happier with whoever we draft at wr this year? What kind of stupid angle are you trying to work with that statement? You have no idea who/when we'll draft a wr, what if we don't draft a guy until the 2nd or 3rd round. Do you realize that last year's wr class was significantly stronger? Do you realize there isn't a wr as good as Watkins in this entire draft in all likelihood? There's nothing we can do about missing out on Watkins, all we can do is move forward. But acting like it wasn't a mistake is just ridiculous. -BM-
*******************************************************
A. Cleveland is in Ohio, that's N. United States. It's snows here. And, it was fun to point out, that as I remember it, Watkins
was joking around about scary snowstorms, and playing in the snow. The point is, stop your stupid bitching over watkins.
Newsflash - he isn't with the Browns. You would do better for yourself, if you went over to the boofalo forum somewhere,
and gloated endlessly. At least you would be being a positive.
We don't know if it was a mistake, suppose the Browns go to the playoffs, and Manziel and Gilbert had
a large part of that? Then will you shut up with the watkins crap? Watkins hasn't been around long enough to say
there is no wr in this draft that can match or surpass his output this past year. Why not just run with what you
blabbered? "All we can do is move forward". Then stick a cork in it about Watkins blah blah blah, and move on already.
Oh, and read about Watkin's weaknesses back then:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1850743/sammy-watkins
WEAKNESSES: Only average height with a leaner than ideal build, lacking elite muscle definition or strength. Lacks elite speed and more of a glider. Not overly physical and won't break many tackles.
Hands are steady, but he'll have his share of focus drops, especially when he hears footsteps - a few botched returns on his resume. Room to improve his reliability on 50/50 passes. Minor durability concerns. Character needs investigated - arrested in May 2012 on drug-related charges.
COMPARES TO: Mix of Torrey Smith (Ravens) and Percy Harvin (Seahawks) - Watkins has the size and vertical ability of Smith and the acceleration, toughness and multiple gears like Harvin.
--Dane Brugler (1/5/13)
WEAKNESSES: Only average height with a leaner than ideal build, lacking elite muscle definition or strength. Lacks elite speed and more of a glider. Not overly physical and won't break many tackles.
Hands are steady, but he'll have his share of focus drops, especially when he hears footsteps - a few botched returns on his resume. Room to improve his reliability on 50/50 passes. Minor durability concerns. Character needs investigated - arrested in May 2012 on drug-related charges.
COMPARES TO: Mix of Torrey Smith (Ravens) and Percy Harvin (Seahawks) - Watkins has the size and vertical ability of Smith and the acceleration, toughness and multiple gears like Harvin.
--Dane Brugler (1/5/13)
OK, let's assume Watkins turns out Torry Smith or Percy Harvin good. (I doubt he's going to be Megatron good) Anyone going to offer a first and a fourth for those two? And you could say the Bills screwed up- could have stood pat taken Odell Beckham, and giving up nothing. (Of course the Browns made the same mistake). BUT Beckham helped the Giants to a not so stellar 6-10 record, the same way Gordon in his league leading year had the Browns at 4-12. So maybe Farmer is right having a stud WR is only a part of the puzzle.
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I'm reconsidering my welcome... and I'm one who thinks Watkins will ultimately emerge as the best WR in the class of 2014.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'm reconsidering my welcome... and I'm one who thinks Watkins will ultimately emerge as the best WR in the class of 2014.
I'm reconsidering my welcome... and I'm one who thinks Watkins will ultimately emerge as the best WR in the class of 2014.
Now, they are reporting that he had hip surgery a couple months ago......(apparently it was injured against the Browns)...
No details on what the injury was or the severity of it....but, I dunno, a bad hip is probably not a good thing for a speedster....
hoping for his sake it's minor and he gets his game on track this season
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