DA deserves a shot in training camp. At the very least...
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mz the pussy, you are one bored sonofagun. You are doing this on purpose, aren't you? The Browns ultra-quiet offseason is causing you QB angst and now you're starting stuff just for grins.
Okay, I'll be your huckleberry.
DA had almost TWO FULL YEARS of starting to show what he could do as a starting QB. I don't care HOW bad the talent around him played in your non-existent 2008, HE HAD TALENT AROUND HIM and he had the full support of the coaching staff for most of the year.
And he played poorly. Frequently.
Y'know, I really don't know which is crazier, people trying to convince themselves that DA will magically transform into a legit starting NFL QB DESPITE ALL EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY or people trying to convince themselves that Quinn magically forgot how to play QB at a high level, something he did successfully for TWO FULL YEARS at one of the toughest places to play QB in the world.
Do you not understand that MOST organizations would have pulled our draft day stunt and then actually PLAYED their co-#1 draft pick, a highly-touted and highly-accomplished college QB to actually SEE what he could do instead of allowing this ridiculous waste of time, energy and resources to go on for two years too long?
Of course you do. Which is why you're just having fun with us with this thread.
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mz the pussy I think you make a ton of great points, however, are you forgetting how frustrating it was to watch him make ridiculously stupid throw after ridiculously stupid throw, never learning to check down if the first read is covered? Forget that he never learned to check down... some of those throws were so bad that an NFL starting QB even as a rookie shouldn't be making them. And he was a fourth (?) year player with some experience.
DA is a likeable guy with a huge arm... he's just not sharp enough to ever learn to read an NFL defense.
He had a great statistical year, but now much of that can be contributed to defenses unfamiliar to him or Braylon/K2/JJ making ridiculous catches while he simply put the ball in the area of them. Especially Braylon in the endzone.
I just don't think we've given him enough time to fix the things we see as "stupid." Not by a long shot. That's all.
Did anyone think Brett Favre was "sharp enough?" I still don't think he is, and he's a 1st-ballot HOF'er.
And addressing the receiver thing, you don't think Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne have ever bailed Manning out? Or Robert Brooks, Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman or Donald Driver ever bailed out Favre??????????? This is what good receivers do.
mz. said:
I just don't think we've given him enough time to fix the things we see as "stupid." Not by a long shot. That's all.Did anyone think Brett Favre was "sharp enough?" I still don't think he is, and he's a 1st-ballot HOF'er.
And addressing the receiver thing, you don't think Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne have ever bailed Manning out? Or Robert Brooks, Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman or Donald Driver ever bailed out Favre??????????? This is what good receivers do.
But DA has shown no improvement since HS. He is who he is.
Favre is a once in a life time player. Favre did get better, and quick once he was out of ATL. Sure Favre continued through his career to have those gaffs and the Favre-punt. But he got away with it because he was also a playmaker at QB. Favre in his prime could extend the play like Big Gay Ben does now. DA does not have that in his game and never will. He isn't the athlete Favre was.
All those guys don't have to bail their QB out on every other throw. With them, it's one guy on the team making a rediculious grab once in a game. In 2007, that crap was JJ, Winslow, and Edwards each doing it once a game. Most times one or two of them had to do it more than once a game. All while getting hung out to dry for big hits from DBs, safteys, and LBs.
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Zombo said:
...This board is oddly anti-DA ...I think the Browns have been oddly active in looking for reasons not to try a first round draft pick.
However, I don't think DA is all bad and do think he'll give it a go somewhere, but I think his ceiling is a Testeverde-type of career.
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mz the pussy I think you make a ton of great points, however, are you forgetting how frustrating it was to watch him make ridiculously stupid throw after ridiculously stupid throw, never learning to check down if the first read is covered? Forget that he never learned to check down... some of those throws were so bad that an NFL starting QB even as a rookie shouldn't be making them. And he was a fourth (?) year player with some experience.
DA is a likeable guy with a huge arm... he's just not sharp enough to ever learn to read an NFL defense.
He had a great statistical year, but now much of that can be contributed to defenses unfamiliar to him or Braylon/K2/JJ making ridiculous catches while he simply put the ball in the area of them. Especially Braylon in the endzone.
I just don't think we've given him enough time to fix the things we see as "stupid." Not by a long shot. That's all.
Did anyone think Brett Favre was "sharp enough?" I still don't think he is, and he's a 1st-ballot HOF'er.
And addressing the receiver thing, you don't think Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne have ever bailed Manning out? Or Robert Brooks, Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman or Donald Driver ever bailed out Favre??????????? This is what good receivers do.
mz. said:
I just don't think we've given him enough time to fix the things we see as "stupid." Not by a long shot. That's all.Did anyone think Brett Favre was "sharp enough?" I still don't think he is, and he's a 1st-ballot HOF'er.
And addressing the receiver thing, you don't think Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne have ever bailed Manning out? Or Robert Brooks, Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman or Donald Driver ever bailed out Favre??????????? This is what good receivers do.
Great thread, mz the pussy. Can't believe there is a fresh way to spin this topic, but you've succeeded - nice job. The only thing I can add/offer is:
I'd be willing to forget 2008, if it didn't start in the 2nd Pittspile game of 2007 - which was game 9. And if that 2nd pittspile game through the present personify any negative on DA's multiple scouting reports he's had since HS/Beaverland.
I'd love for DA to "fix/get it." You can't coach that arm (on the flipside, you can't coach Queen's leadership, presence, & field command). If DA could clean up the poor decision making, & make accurate throws, & not throw 5yd fastball "rocket screens," he'd basically be unstoppable. How do you defense a consistent 35yd laser? Answer: you can't. I just don't think he will get it.
Queen has the type of field command that the 10 other guys (and a lot of times 11 on Defense) play their guts out for. And to continue comparing DA to Manning & Farve, they have that it factor that guys will go out and leave it all on the field for - that respect. And DA, does not. That's the difference, and that's why he won't make it as an NFL starter despite having some very impressive physical tools.
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Zombo said:
Finally some sense from a mainstream poster toward DA.This board is oddly anti-DA ... maybe because Lumbergh rubbed people the wrong way, maybe because we spent a valuable #1 on Quinn, maybe cause Quinn is the local boy who looks the part...
But Derek Anderson IS a work in progress with valuable skills and a very interesting track record in 07 that should not so easily be dismissed with "easy schedule" or "defenses adjusted" ... throw out 08 ... it was an unmitigated disaster ... the offense was unbearable, Romeo was crap ... it did no favors for Anderson OR Quinn and probably ended the careers of the other two guys.
You're not "not supporting" Quinn if you support Anderson and are intrigued with his physical skills and his curious run of success in 07.
It's like people saying you don't "support the troops" if you don't like the war. Around here you're "not supporting Quinn" if you still like Anderson ....I don't get that at all...
It's not black & white. They are two young QBs with many good assets each. They are both commodities.
And ... they are both big boys, and the coaching staff is smart ... just let it play out.
Zombo
--I'm rooting for whoever turns out to be the best QB for the long haul ... Quinn has my edge, but he hasn't proven it yet. This thing needs to play out.
Z, good post.
And what you are saying is all well and good, in general.
But a couple of things to correct.
This board is not "anti-DA". We are (if I may speak for the many of us who have been saying this for some time) "anti-bad QBing".
DA has been BAD. BAD BAD BAD.
Could he eventually, maybe, possibly be GOOD? Sure.
But to keep trotting him out there and say "well, look at him, he's obviously going to get better, because well, LOOK AT HIM" seems so oddly, well, Romeo-esque that I don't understand how anyone can really believe it anymore.
He's had a chance. He's blown it. NEXT.
The point I agree most with is that DA is a commodity. That's EXACTLY what he should have been last year when we had a chance to cash him in and we SHOULD have done that at the time, for now obvious reasons.
Because the reality is that NO TEAM has TWO starting QBs at one time. It just doesn't make sense to continue to perpetuate the idea that EITHER Quinn or Anderson could be our QB; what team does that? The Bears did it last year with Grossman and Orton and they ended up with Orton. Couldn't common sense have told them to give Orton a shot after Grossman's play the previous two seasons? What purpose was served by staging the "competition"? Not hurting Grossman's feelings? Giving the team the idea that the coaches refused to decide?
The only good I could see of the Bears doing that and potentially of us doing it would be to put the whole damn thing to bed once and for all.
But why a coach couldn't just do that, I do not for the life of me understand...
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mz. said:
I just don't think we've given him enough time to fix the things we see as "stupid." Not by a long shot. That's all.Did anyone think Brett Favre was "sharp enough?" I still don't think he is, and he's a 1st-ballot HOF'er.
And addressing the receiver thing, you don't think Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne have ever bailed Manning out? Or Robert Brooks, Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman or Donald Driver ever bailed out Favre??????????? This is what good receivers do.
But DA has shown no improvement since HS. He is who he is.
Favre is a once in a life time player. Favre did get better, and quick once he was out of ATL. Sure Favre continued through his career to have those gaffs and the Favre-punt. But he got away with it because he was also a playmaker at QB. Favre in his prime could extend the play like Big Gay Ben does now. DA does not have that in his game and never will. He isn't the athlete Favre was.
All those guys don't have to bail their QB out on every other throw. With them, it's one guy on the team making a rediculious grab once in a game. In 2007, that crap was JJ, Winslow, and Edwards each doing it once a game. Most times one or two of them had to do it more than once a game. All while getting hung out to dry for big hits from DBs, safteys, and LBs.
Masters said:
But DA has shown no improvement since HS. He is who he is.I've always found this line of reasoning pretty laughable, but I'm bitten my tongue in the past because of my intense hatred of Lumbergh.
Masters said:
Favre did get better, and quick once he was out of ATL.The Favre stats I posted were GB stats.
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Did, or did not, DA just finish his last season as the worst rated passer in the NFL?
Does he remain a slave to his long standing weaknesses in the areas of athleticism (if he has to move his feet, its going to be bad), decision making, and accuracy?
At some point you have to make a choice. This can't go on longer. If its DA, then trade Quinn for value. If its Quinn, then trade DA for value.
Its all opinion on these boards by definition. I happen to think that DA will a) not mature into a championship caliber QB or
take too long to do so. Watching him for 2+ years has convinced me of that. So, if it were me as GM/HC and my more inside observations supported this thinking..... I'd trade him. If Quinn goes on to prove no better, we're back in the market for a QB.I think its much more likely DA ends up with a career more like Jeff George then Brett Favre.
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Did, or did not, DA just finish his last season as the worst rated passer in the NFL?
Does he remain a slave to his long standing weaknesses in the areas of athleticism (if he has to move his feet, its going to be bad), decision making, and accuracy?
At some point you have to make a choice. This can't go on longer. If its DA, then trade Quinn for value. If its Quinn, then trade DA for value.
Its all opinion on these boards by definition. I happen to think that DA will a) not mature into a championship caliber QB or
take too long to do so. Watching him for 2+ years has convinced me of that. So, if it were me as GM/HC and my more inside observations supported this thinking..... I'd trade him. If Quinn goes on to prove no better, we're back in the market for a QB.I think its much more likely DA ends up with a career more like Jeff George then Brett Favre.
Did, or did not, DA just finish his last season as the worst rated passer in the NFL?
Yeah tied with some guy named Brady Quinn.
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Too many posters here act as though Quarterbacks are a finished product after one to two years of starting, but that's hardly the case. Time and time again that's proven false.
Too many posters here act as though Quarterbacks are a finished product after one to two years of starting, but that's hardly the case. Time and time again that's proven false.
Eli Manning for instance
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Yeah tied with some guy named Brady Quinn.
Jesus H. Quinn wan't ranked because he didn't get enough reps to qualify for the basic math of stats.
Same song Lum. All postive for one guy and all negative for the other just shows you're either A ) a fanboi or B ) suffer from the "black and white of youth". Remember those days? Its when everything is either awesome or everything is terrible. Get some wisdom man. It's all gray zones.
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By the time Quinn got in it was over anyhow . The team shriveled up and went limp . Not a good way to dertimine anything either way in my opinion .
NewEraDawg -
mz the pussy I think you make a ton of great points, however, are you forgetting how frustrating it was to watch him make ridiculously stupid throw after ridiculously stupid throw, never learning to check down if the first read is covered? Forget that he never learned to check down... some of those throws were so bad that an NFL starting QB even as a rookie shouldn't be making them. And he was a fourth (?) year player with some experience.
DA is a likeable guy with a huge arm... he's just not sharp enough to ever learn to read an NFL defense.
He had a great statistical year, but now much of that can be contributed to defenses unfamiliar to him or Braylon/K2/JJ making ridiculous catches while he simply put the ball in the area of them. Especially Braylon in the endzone.
I just don't think we've given him enough time to fix the things we see as "stupid." Not by a long shot. That's all.
Did anyone think Brett Favre was "sharp enough?" I still don't think he is, and he's a 1st-ballot HOF'er.
And addressing the receiver thing, you don't think Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne have ever bailed Manning out? Or Robert Brooks, Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman or Donald Driver ever bailed out Favre??????????? This is what good receivers do.
mz. said:
I just don't think we've given him enough time to fix the things we see as "stupid." Not by a long shot. That's all.Did anyone think Brett Favre was "sharp enough?" I still don't think he is, and he's a 1st-ballot HOF'er.
And addressing the receiver thing, you don't think Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne have ever bailed Manning out?
No, not like Braylon or K2 bailed out DA in 07.
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By the time Quinn got in it was over anyhow . The team shriveled up and went limp . Not a good way to dertimine anything either way in my opinion .
By the time Quinn got in it was over anyhow . The team shriveled up and went limp . Not a good way to dertimine anything either way in my opinion .
Yeah the team shriveled up and quit when he came in.
What was BQ Nation saying about his leadership skills again?
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If DA is on the team this year, I must admit that I'm considering not getting my season tickets.
I'll just watch the games from home. I can't stand to keep going through this mess.
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Masters said:
But DA has shown no improvement since HS. He is who he is.I've always found this line of reasoning pretty laughable, but I'm bitten my tongue in the past because of my intense hatred of Lumbergh.
Masters said:
Favre did get better, and quick once he was out of ATL.The Favre stats I posted were GB stats.
mz. said:
I've always found this line of reasoning pretty laughable, but I'm bitten my tongue in the past because of my intense hatred of Lumbergh.The Favre stats I posted were GB stats.
Why is it laughable. It's the truth. Read his scouting report out of HS, out of college, and today. It reads the same. Even if he never had Bill Walsh coaching him, you'd think as a player he could watch film of himself, what D's are doing to him, and make some sort of adjustment on his own. Heck, even how to adjust his canon arm on short passes. But he can't and hasn't. He is who he is. It isn't all bad, but he sure isn't who I'd want as the starting QB of my team. Whether I am a contender or a pretender.
I realize it was Favre's first season. But Brett again showed coachability and was athletic. DA is a human jug machine.
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mz. said:
I've always found this line of reasoning pretty laughable, but I'm bitten my tongue in the past because of my intense hatred of Lumbergh.The Favre stats I posted were GB stats.
Why is it laughable. It's the truth. Read his scouting report out of HS, out of college, and today. It reads the same. Even if he never had Bill Walsh coaching him, you'd think as a player he could watch film of himself, what D's are doing to him, and make some sort of adjustment on his own. Heck, even how to adjust his canon arm on short passes. But he can't and hasn't. He is who he is. It isn't all bad, but he sure isn't who I'd want as the starting QB of my team. Whether I am a contender or a pretender.
I realize it was Favre's first season. But Brett again showed coachability and was athletic. DA is a human jug machine.
Masters said:
Why is it laughable. It's the truth. Read his scouting report out of HS, out of college, and today. It reads the same.Yeah, shitloads of TD passes.
...ha! and who would want lowly former NFL head coaches Dennis Erickson and Mike Riley when he could have had Fatso Weis? Now we're talking "pedigree", right masterbater?
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Masters said:
Why is it laughable. It's the truth. Read his scouting report out of HS, out of college, and today. It reads the same.Yeah, shitloads of TD passes.
...ha! and who would want lowly former NFL head coaches Dennis Erickson and Mike Riley when he could have had Fatso Weis? Now we're talking "pedigree", right masterbater?
Yeah, shitloads of TD passes.
...ha! and who would want lowly former NFL head coaches Dennis Erickson and Mike Riley when he could have had Fatso Weis? Now we're talking "pedigree", right masterbater?
LMFAO. Lum, you are just too weak. You mean all those TDs he threw over his first 7 starts, right? Shall we talk about all of them over his last 16 starts after teams made adjustments against him?
I didn't say or imply Weiss was any type of guru. That's all you right there buddy boy. Of course you missed the point. The point is no matter who DA ever has to coach him, he will be who he is. He's already shown that. Which to me spells get value for him if you can. He's not gonna be anyone of significance at QB in the NFL over the long haul.
What will Quinn do? I don't know. Can he learn? We will have to find out. But his track record at least shows learning and growth from HS to today. So from that aspect, he shows more upside than DA.
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