For the religious - a question
-
The main character walked the earth doing things only someone with supernatural ability could do, said before it happened he would be killed and three days later rise from death and then it happened just like he said it would. I don't see the ridiculousness of believing in someone like that at all. What is ridiculous to me is not believing.
The only accounts of Jesus being some superhero were from Christians. I doubt anyone questions the existence of Jesus. I just don't put any faith into a retelling by people who very well could have joined up with the scientology of their age. No other source from that time makes Jesus out to be some sort of hippie Superman.
So as a person who has read the Bible, I don't see how anyone could believe it.
THE DISCIPLES’ ULTIMATE SACRIFICEThe only accounts of Jesus being some superhero were from Christians. I doubt anyone questions the existence of Jesus. I just don't put any faith into a retelling by people who very well could have joined up with the scientology of their age. No other source from that time makes Jesus out to be some sort of hippie Superman.
So as a person who has read the Bible, I don't see how anyone could believe it.
Perhaps the greatest change caused by the resurrection was in the character of the disciples. They had previously been timid, afraid, and depressed after witnessing the arrest and suffering of Jesus. But after His resurrection they became aggressive, bold, and full of joy.
Peter is a prime example. He was the one who had earlier denied the Lord to a lowly servant girl. But after the resurrection, he stood in the temple courts defying the very men who put Jesus on the cross (Acts 4:20).
When you observe the post-resurrection disciples, you see that they had life! Their circumstances didn’t matter. They had joy in the midst of suffering and peace in the midst of turmoil. Nothing could take away their passion arising from the everlasting life they’d received from Christ.
The disciples believed so much in the resurrection that they gave their lives to sharing the news. The first to die was James the brother of John, who was killed by the sword upon the order of King Herod (Acts 12:1–2). Church tradition holds that John miraculously survived being put into a cauldron of boiling water, then later was exiled to the island of Patmos; Peter was crucified in Rome upside down; Matthew was slain by a sword in a distant city in Ethiopia; James the son of Alphaeus was thrown from a pinnacle of the temple, then beaten to death with a blacksmith’s tool; Philip was hanged against a pillar at Hierapolis in Phrygia; Bartholomew was skinned alive; Andrew was bound to a cross — and preached to his persecutors until he died; Thomas was run through with a lance in the East Indies; Jude was shot to death with arrows; Matthias was first stoned and then beheaded; Mark died in Alexandria in Egypt after being cruelly dragged through the city.
Let me ask you: Would you have died for a lie? Would these disciples have endured such persecution for a dead man?
No. They saw the risen Lord—then gave their very lives in service to Him. They were no longer afraid of death because they’d found the true meaning of life. They were transformed, for they were living in resurrection life.
-
THE DISCIPLES’ ULTIMATE SACRIFICEThe only accounts of Jesus being some superhero were from Christians. I doubt anyone questions the existence of Jesus. I just don't put any faith into a retelling by people who very well could have joined up with the scientology of their age. No other source from that time makes Jesus out to be some sort of hippie Superman.
So as a person who has read the Bible, I don't see how anyone could believe it.
Perhaps the greatest change caused by the resurrection was in the character of the disciples. They had previously been timid, afraid, and depressed after witnessing the arrest and suffering of Jesus. But after His resurrection they became aggressive, bold, and full of joy.
Peter is a prime example. He was the one who had earlier denied the Lord to a lowly servant girl. But after the resurrection, he stood in the temple courts defying the very men who put Jesus on the cross (Acts 4:20).
When you observe the post-resurrection disciples, you see that they had life! Their circumstances didn’t matter. They had joy in the midst of suffering and peace in the midst of turmoil. Nothing could take away their passion arising from the everlasting life they’d received from Christ.
The disciples believed so much in the resurrection that they gave their lives to sharing the news. The first to die was James the brother of John, who was killed by the sword upon the order of King Herod (Acts 12:1–2). Church tradition holds that John miraculously survived being put into a cauldron of boiling water, then later was exiled to the island of Patmos; Peter was crucified in Rome upside down; Matthew was slain by a sword in a distant city in Ethiopia; James the son of Alphaeus was thrown from a pinnacle of the temple, then beaten to death with a blacksmith’s tool; Philip was hanged against a pillar at Hierapolis in Phrygia; Bartholomew was skinned alive; Andrew was bound to a cross — and preached to his persecutors until he died; Thomas was run through with a lance in the East Indies; Jude was shot to death with arrows; Matthias was first stoned and then beheaded; Mark died in Alexandria in Egypt after being cruelly dragged through the city.
Let me ask you: Would you have died for a lie? Would these disciples have endured such persecution for a dead man?
No. They saw the risen Lord—then gave their very lives in service to Him. They were no longer afraid of death because they’d found the true meaning of life. They were transformed, for they were living in resurrection life.
Would you drink poison because you believed a guy who told you he knew heaven was on a comet? I wouldn't but people did. Sacrificing your life to a cause does not mean that cause was real. They very well could have believed it in their heads but that certainly doesn't prove the validity of it by giving their lives.THE DISCIPLES ULTIMATE SACRIFICE
Perhaps the greatest change caused by the resurrection was in the character of the disciples. They had previously been timid, afraid, and depressed after witnessing the arrest and suffering of Jesus. But after His resurrection they became aggressive, bold, and full of joy.
Peter is a prime example. He was the one who had earlier denied the Lord to a lowly servant girl. But after the resurrection, he stood in the temple courts defying the very men who put Jesus on the cross (Acts 4:20).
When you observe the post-resurrection disciples, you see that they had life! Their circumstances didnt matter. They had joy in the midst of suffering and peace in the midst of turmoil. Nothing could take away their passion arising from the everlasting life theyd received from Christ.
The disciples believed so much in the resurrection that they gave their lives to sharing the news. The first to die was James the brother of John, who was killed by the sword upon the order of King Herod (Acts 12:12). Church tradition holds that John miraculously survived being put into a cauldron of boiling water, then later was exiled to the island of Patmos; Peter was crucified in Rome upside down; Matthew was slain by a sword in a distant city in Ethiopia; James the son of Alphaeus was thrown from a pinnacle of the temple, then beaten to death with a blacksmiths tool; Philip was hanged against a pillar at Hierapolis in Phrygia; Bartholomew was skinned alive; Andrew was bound to a cross and preached to his persecutors until he died; Thomas was run through with a lance in the East Indies; Jude was shot to death with arrows; Matthias was first stoned and then beheaded; Mark died in Alexandria in Egypt after being cruelly dragged through the city.
Let me ask you: Would you have died for a lie? Would these disciples have endured such persecution for a dead man?
No. They saw the risen Lordthen gave their very lives in service to Him. They were no longer afraid of death because theyd found the true meaning of life. They were transformed, for they were living in resurrection life.
-
Would you drink poison because you believed a guy who told you he knew heaven was on a comet? I wouldn't but people did. Sacrificing your life to a cause does not mean that cause was real. They very well could have believed it in their heads but that certainly doesn't prove the validity of it by giving their lives.THE DISCIPLES ULTIMATE SACRIFICE
Perhaps the greatest change caused by the resurrection was in the character of the disciples. They had previously been timid, afraid, and depressed after witnessing the arrest and suffering of Jesus. But after His resurrection they became aggressive, bold, and full of joy.
Peter is a prime example. He was the one who had earlier denied the Lord to a lowly servant girl. But after the resurrection, he stood in the temple courts defying the very men who put Jesus on the cross (Acts 4:20).
When you observe the post-resurrection disciples, you see that they had life! Their circumstances didnt matter. They had joy in the midst of suffering and peace in the midst of turmoil. Nothing could take away their passion arising from the everlasting life theyd received from Christ.
The disciples believed so much in the resurrection that they gave their lives to sharing the news. The first to die was James the brother of John, who was killed by the sword upon the order of King Herod (Acts 12:12). Church tradition holds that John miraculously survived being put into a cauldron of boiling water, then later was exiled to the island of Patmos; Peter was crucified in Rome upside down; Matthew was slain by a sword in a distant city in Ethiopia; James the son of Alphaeus was thrown from a pinnacle of the temple, then beaten to death with a blacksmiths tool; Philip was hanged against a pillar at Hierapolis in Phrygia; Bartholomew was skinned alive; Andrew was bound to a cross and preached to his persecutors until he died; Thomas was run through with a lance in the East Indies; Jude was shot to death with arrows; Matthias was first stoned and then beheaded; Mark died in Alexandria in Egypt after being cruelly dragged through the city.
Let me ask you: Would you have died for a lie? Would these disciples have endured such persecution for a dead man?
No. They saw the risen Lordthen gave their very lives in service to Him. They were no longer afraid of death because theyd found the true meaning of life. They were transformed, for they were living in resurrection life.
Would you drink poison because you believed a guy who told you he knew heaven was on a comet? I wouldn't but people did. Sacrificing your life to a cause does not mean that cause was real. They very well could have believed it in their heads but that certainly doesn't prove the validity of it by giving their lives.
But why didn't the disciples act that way when Jesus was arrested? They spent 3 1/2 years with Him and witnessed the miracles and He used every opportunity to teach them. Yet when He was arrested they scattered, left Him and were fearful. For them to act this way now was only because they saw Him rise from death. There can be no other reason. They were not deluded into believing this, they saw it.
-
Would you drink poison because you believed a guy who told you he knew heaven was on a comet? I wouldn't but people did. Sacrificing your life to a cause does not mean that cause was real. They very well could have believed it in their heads but that certainly doesn't prove the validity of it by giving their lives.THE DISCIPLES ULTIMATE SACRIFICE
Perhaps the greatest change caused by the resurrection was in the character of the disciples. They had previously been timid, afraid, and depressed after witnessing the arrest and suffering of Jesus. But after His resurrection they became aggressive, bold, and full of joy.
Peter is a prime example. He was the one who had earlier denied the Lord to a lowly servant girl. But after the resurrection, he stood in the temple courts defying the very men who put Jesus on the cross (Acts 4:20).
When you observe the post-resurrection disciples, you see that they had life! Their circumstances didnt matter. They had joy in the midst of suffering and peace in the midst of turmoil. Nothing could take away their passion arising from the everlasting life theyd received from Christ.
The disciples believed so much in the resurrection that they gave their lives to sharing the news. The first to die was James the brother of John, who was killed by the sword upon the order of King Herod (Acts 12:12). Church tradition holds that John miraculously survived being put into a cauldron of boiling water, then later was exiled to the island of Patmos; Peter was crucified in Rome upside down; Matthew was slain by a sword in a distant city in Ethiopia; James the son of Alphaeus was thrown from a pinnacle of the temple, then beaten to death with a blacksmiths tool; Philip was hanged against a pillar at Hierapolis in Phrygia; Bartholomew was skinned alive; Andrew was bound to a cross and preached to his persecutors until he died; Thomas was run through with a lance in the East Indies; Jude was shot to death with arrows; Matthias was first stoned and then beheaded; Mark died in Alexandria in Egypt after being cruelly dragged through the city.
Let me ask you: Would you have died for a lie? Would these disciples have endured such persecution for a dead man?
No. They saw the risen Lordthen gave their very lives in service to Him. They were no longer afraid of death because theyd found the true meaning of life. They were transformed, for they were living in resurrection life.
Would you drink poison because you believed a guy who told you he knew heaven was on a comet? I wouldn't but people did. Sacrificing your life to a cause does not mean that cause was real. They very well could have believed it in their heads but that certainly doesn't prove the validity of it by giving their lives.
The key word is believed. If you did believe that I think the answer would be yes. If you believed an intruder in your home meant to kill you or your family would you shoot him? The answer would be yes. You would not shoot him if you did not believe that would you?
The bottom line is that people believe differently.
WSS
-
Would you drink poison because you believed a guy who told you he knew heaven was on a comet? I wouldn't but people did. Sacrificing your life to a cause does not mean that cause was real. They very well could have believed it in their heads but that certainly doesn't prove the validity of it by giving their lives.
But why didn't the disciples act that way when Jesus was arrested? They spent 3 1/2 years with Him and witnessed the miracles and He used every opportunity to teach them. Yet when He was arrested they scattered, left Him and were fearful. For them to act this way now was only because they saw Him rise from death. There can be no other reason. They were not deluded into believing this, they saw it.
But why didn't the disciples act that way when Jesus was arrested? They spent 3 1/2 years with Him and witnessed the miracles and He used every opportunity to teach them. Yet when He was arrested they scattered, left Him and were fearful. For them to act this way now was only because they saw Him rise from death. There can be no other reason. They were not deluded into believing this, they saw it.
Well, I'm sure Jesus knew he was to be killed in order to forgive mans sins. That is why god sent him to earth to begin with correct? The whole deal was no doubt planned by god from the beginning and them denying Jesus was all part of the plan.
-
But why didn't the disciples act that way when Jesus was arrested? They spent 3 1/2 years with Him and witnessed the miracles and He used every opportunity to teach them. Yet when He was arrested they scattered, left Him and were fearful. For them to act this way now was only because they saw Him rise from death. There can be no other reason. They were not deluded into believing this, they saw it.
Well, I'm sure Jesus knew he was to be killed in order to forgive mans sins. That is why god sent him to earth to begin with correct? The whole deal was no doubt planned by god from the beginning and them denying Jesus was all part of the plan.
Well, I'm sure Jesus knew he was to be killed in order to forgive mans sins. That is why god sent him to earth to begin with correct? The whole deal was no doubt planned by god from the beginning and them denying Jesus was all part of the plan.
Jesus knew. He told the disciples going into Jerusalem he was going to be crucified and Peter tried to talk him out of it. He knew who was going to betray Him. He knew the same person (Peter) who was soon about to deny he even knew Jesus was the same Peter who was boasting when everyone else left Jesus he wouldn't. He knew many of the same crowd who were praising Him when He entered Jerusalem were going to be the same ones calling for him to be crucified. It was all part of the plan prophesied hundreds of years before in Isaiah 53.
-
there are so many archaeological proofs to bible history already, along with fulfilled prophecies regarding Israel.
and so many digs going on still - that have brought a faith revival in Israel!
meaning they (jews) too (church) are awaiting for the return of the Messiah...
( but the distinction remains as Steve said - the believers)
-
Would you drink poison because you believed a guy who told you he knew heaven was on a comet? I wouldn't but people did. Sacrificing your life to a cause does not mean that cause was real. They very well could have believed it in their heads but that certainly doesn't prove the validity of it by giving their lives.
But why didn't the disciples act that way when Jesus was arrested? They spent 3 1/2 years with Him and witnessed the miracles and He used every opportunity to teach them. Yet when He was arrested they scattered, left Him and were fearful. For them to act this way now was only because they saw Him rise from death. There can be no other reason. They were not deluded into believing this, they saw it.
But why didn't the disciples act that way when Jesus was arrested? They spent 3 1/2 years with Him and witnessed the miracles and He used every opportunity to teach them. Yet when He was arrested they scattered, left Him and were fearful. For them to act this way now was only because they saw Him rise from death. There can be no other reason. They were not deluded into believing this, they saw it.
There are people who believed in all sorts of charlatans. The recounting of a few folks is not enough for me to buy into absurd tales. That is not the case for other people. I don't take the actions of a few people who very well could be loons as proof of anything. There were similar stories in pagan belief and the Horus myth matches a good deal of the Bible description of Jesus. It is a matter of faith.
-
there are so many archaeological proofs to bible history already, along with fulfilled prophecies regarding Israel.
and so many digs going on still - that have brought a faith revival in Israel!
meaning they (jews) too (church) are awaiting for the return of the Messiah...
( but the distinction remains as Steve said - the believers)
there are so many archaeological proofs to bible history already, along with fulfilled prophecies regarding Israel.
and so many digs going on still - that have brought a faith revival in Israel!
meaning they (jews) too (church) are awaiting for the return of the Messiah...
( but the distinction remains as Steve said - the believers)
So they proved someone lived inside of a whale, a guy took two of every animal on Earth and put them on an ark, and that a guy walked on water when not turning it into wine?
-
there are so many archaeological proofs to bible history already, along with fulfilled prophecies regarding Israel.
and so many digs going on still - that have brought a faith revival in Israel!
meaning they (jews) too (church) are awaiting for the return of the Messiah...
( but the distinction remains as Steve said - the believers)
So they proved someone lived inside of a whale, a guy took two of every animal on Earth and put them on an ark, and that a guy walked on water when not turning it into wine?
So they proved someone lived inside of a whale, a guy took two of every animal on Earth and put them on an ark, and that a guy walked on water when not turning it into wine?
Don't be silly, the bits that are clearly bollocks aren't meant to be taken literally. They're metaphors.
-
So they proved someone lived inside of a whale, a guy took two of every animal on Earth and put them on an ark, and that a guy walked on water when not turning it into wine?
Don't be silly, the bits that are clearly bollocks aren't meant to be taken literally. They're metaphors.
Don't be silly, the bits that are clearly bollocks aren't meant to be taken literally. They're metaphors.
So Jesus healing people, turning water into wine, walking on water, and rising from the dead were meant to be taken as metaphors? Because they are as absurd as the Noah and Jonah stories.
-
Don't be silly, the bits that are clearly bollocks aren't meant to be taken literally. They're metaphors.
So Jesus healing people, turning water into wine, walking on water, and rising from the dead were meant to be taken as metaphors? Because they are as absurd as the Noah and Jonah stories.
So Jesus healing people, turning water into wine, walking on water, and rising from the dead were meant to be taken as metaphors? Because they are as absurd as the Noah and Jonah stories.
No no, there's proof of them. People saw it, apparently, and wrote it down.
-
So Jesus healing people, turning water into wine, walking on water, and rising from the dead were meant to be taken as metaphors? Because they are as absurd as the Noah and Jonah stories.
No no, there's proof of them. People saw it, apparently, and wrote it down.
-
But why didn't the disciples act that way when Jesus was arrested? They spent 3 1/2 years with Him and witnessed the miracles and He used every opportunity to teach them. Yet when He was arrested they scattered, left Him and were fearful. For them to act this way now was only because they saw Him rise from death. There can be no other reason. They were not deluded into believing this, they saw it.
There are people who believed in all sorts of charlatans. The recounting of a few folks is not enough for me to buy into absurd tales. That is not the case for other people. I don't take the actions of a few people who very well could be loons as proof of anything. There were similar stories in pagan belief and the Horus myth matches a good deal of the Bible description of Jesus. It is a matter of faith.
There are people who believed in all sorts of charlatans. The recounting of a few folks is not enough for me to buy into absurd tales. That is not the case for other people. I don't take the actions of a few people who very well could be loons as proof of anything. There were similar stories in pagan belief and the Horus myth matches a good deal of the Bible description of Jesus. It is a matter of faith.
It is a matter of faith. You nailed it there.
-
So Jesus healing people, turning water into wine, walking on water, and rising from the dead were meant to be taken as metaphors? Because they are as absurd as the Noah and Jonah stories.
No no, there's proof of them. People saw it, apparently, and wrote it down.
-
there are so many archaeological proofs to bible history already, along with fulfilled prophecies regarding Israel.
and so many digs going on still - that have brought a faith revival in Israel!
meaning they (jews) too (church) are awaiting for the return of the Messiah...
( but the distinction remains as Steve said - the believers)
So they proved someone lived inside of a whale, a guy took two of every animal on Earth and put them on an ark, and that a guy walked on water when not turning it into wine?
So they proved someone lived inside of a whale, a guy took two of every animal on Earth and put them on an ark, and that a guy walked on water when not turning it into wine?
the validity of anything you hear about or even read is left up to you! - like you said faith..
for any believer - the proof of archaelogical finds are fascinating and brings life to ancient hebrew texts that happen to be
accurate tranlations from the greek (latin) language to german and then english. The bible does come to life as literal to the believer.
Jonah in the belly of a whale? could it not happen?
Noahs Ark? the bible says it rested on Mt. Ararat...
The life and times of Jesus? what better time in historical civilization than for the amazing claims to occur in the crosshairs
of the Roman Empire? (yes they were witnesses)
-
So they proved someone lived inside of a whale, a guy took two of every animal on Earth and put them on an ark, and that a guy walked on water when not turning it into wine?
the validity of anything you hear about or even read is left up to you! - like you said faith..
for any believer - the proof of archaelogical finds are fascinating and brings life to ancient hebrew texts that happen to be
accurate tranlations from the greek (latin) language to german and then english. The bible does come to life as literal to the believer.
Jonah in the belly of a whale? could it not happen?
Noahs Ark? the bible says it rested on Mt. Ararat...
The life and times of Jesus? what better time in historical civilization than for the amazing claims to occur in the crosshairs
of the Roman Empire? (yes they were witnesses)
Jonah in the belly of a whale? could it not happen?
Noahs Ark? the bible says it rested on Mt. Ararat...
The life and times of Jesus? what better time in historical civilization than for the amazing claims to occur in the crosshairs
of the Roman Empire? (yes they were witnesses)
No, a person could not survive in the stomach of a whale. If it's a whale whose gullet is big enough to swallow a human (lots aren't), then that whale is designed to digest things of that size. 3 days? Nope.
Noah's Ark is...interesting. Two of *every* species? For a year? Boat not big enough for a start. What did the animals eat? Because there's such a thing as a food chain.
Jesus - no doubt he existed. Son of god, rose from the dead, performed miracles? Some doubt, shall we say.
-
Anyway you guys understand I'm not a believer but I always try to respect the beliefs of my Christian friends. Recently I found something called the NLT translation of the Bible in audio form and started at the beginning. Just finishing up Exodus and plan to go further but even you Christians have to admit it's pretty hard to swallow. Just the list of offenses for which the Lord demands death. And that's not to mention chapter after chapter on the requirements for building the temple and making the outfits for Aaron and his sons and rendering the first born son and the burnt offerings. It's pretty hard to take it seriously. I can imagine how much worse it will be when I get into Deuteronomy etc.
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Anyway you guys understand I'm not a believer but I always try to respect the beliefs of my Christian friends. Recently I found something called the NLT translation of the Bible in audio form and started at the beginning. Just finishing up Exodus and plan to go further but even you Christians have to admit it's pretty hard to swallow. Just the list of offenses for which the Lord demands death. And that's not to mention chapter after chapter on the requirements for building the temple and making the outfits for Aaron and his sons and rendering the first born son and the burnt offerings. It's pretty hard to take it seriously. I can imagine how much worse it will be when I get into Deuteronomy etc.
Anyway you guys understand I'm not a believer but I always try to respect the beliefs of my Christian friends. Recently I found something called the NLT translation of the Bible in audio form and started at the beginning. Just finishing up Exodus and plan to go further but even you Christians have to admit it's pretty hard to swallow. Just the list of offenses for which the Lord demands death. And that's not to mention chapter after chapter on the requirements for building the temple and making the outfits for Aaron and his sons and rendering the first born son and the burnt offerings. It's pretty hard to take it seriously. I can imagine how much worse it will be when I get into Deuteronomy etc.
I posted earlier but I removed it because I am sure I did not do a good job. Although I have studied the bible for over 30 years I just am not a good teacher. I wish I was. I envy people with the teaching gift because I believe good teachers are gifted. Anyway your questions are good ones and I will post some links where others can explain much better than me. To read about building the tabernacle is very boring but there is a reason for it and the significance of the tabernacle is huge.
http://the-tabernacle-place.com/articles/what_is_the_tabernacle
-
I appreciate that old Browns fan. Even though I'm not really a believer I guess I am a seeker. I usually enjoy my visits from the Jehovah's Witnesses as well as the Mormons.
WSS
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login