Browns vs. Steeler LB corps
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I agree with every part of your post except for your bit on Tomlin and Colbert. I was and am a big cowher fan but it took him a long time to win the big one. I do believe some of that has to do with the patriots cheating the entire AFC but that's a secondary point. Troy didn't indicate until last season that he lost a step, injury may have masked it but his presence in the locker room and on the field cannot be denied. I've made the argument here that I'd have liked to see him take a pay cut and stay another. We also did draft a replacement but shark was battling hamstring problems. We signed mike Mitchell as well and paid him pretty good money. The team was addressing the secondary. Tomlin has also hit on a lot of players in the draft. He's missed on some too but run the list. A quick one would be Timmons, Brown, Bell, Heyward, Bryant, Wallace, Sanders, Wheaton although he's less proven. I think both Vince Williams and Spence are starters in this league and the team didn't give up on Spence after a pretty horrific injury. Decastro, beachum in the 7th. Pouncey and the most goes on...some of these guys are no brained draft picks but the point still stands. I don't know why certain steeler fans are hard on Tomlin. He's one of the most successful coaches in the nfl and his players love him.Thats where we disagree. Faith in the F/O is what I had when Colbert and Cowher were together, but since Tomlin, Colbert hasnt been as good, They held on to Troy 1 season too long because they had no suitable replacement. I have high hopes for Shark, but he still needs to prove. Tuitt is going to be awesome with Heyward and McClendon. Shazier will be a lot better this year, barring injury. Jones should be too. He was showing good until the wrist last year and never came back, but I'm sure the wrist made it hard to shed blocks.
I don't know why certain steeler fans are hard on Tomlin. He's one of the most successful coaches in the nfl and his players love him.
Tomlin is no better then Romeo Crennel. All Tomlin did was take what Cowher had already set in place. Tomlin doesn't get his players ready, how else can you explain the Connor Shaw led Browns putting up a much better fight in a game against the Ravens that meant nothing, to the Steelers being embarrassed on national TV in Ketchup Field by the same Ravens team....
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@chicopee-john said:
Who gives a shit?
Vag does, he can't stand the Browns being better the Steelers at anything, he still has nightmares of Ben motherfucking Tate rushing for not one but TWO scores
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@chicopee-john said:
Who gives a shit?
Vag does, he can't stand the Browns being better the Steelers at anything, he still has nightmares of Ben motherfucking Tate rushing for not one but TWO scores
Vag does, he can't stand the Browns being better the Steelers at anything, he still has nightmares of Ben motherfucking Tate rushing for not one but TWO scores
I'm gonna have fun with you. Feisty. The steelers made a bed they had to lay in last season. Blount was cut which forced them to sign a guy from the street to carry the load in a playoff game. Are you telling me you would rather finish 7-9 than win the division and at least make the playoffs? If the Browns were better they would have won the division no?
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Vag does, he can't stand the Browns being better the Steelers at anything, he still has nightmares of Ben motherfucking Tate rushing for not one but TWO scores
I'm gonna have fun with you. Feisty. The steelers made a bed they had to lay in last season. Blount was cut which forced them to sign a guy from the street to carry the load in a playoff game. Are you telling me you would rather finish 7-9 than win the division and at least make the playoffs? If the Browns were better they would have won the division no?
I'm gonna have fun with you. Feisty. The steelers made a bed they had to lay in last season. Blount was cut which forced them to sign a guy from the street to carry the load in a playoff game. Are you telling me you would rather finish 7-9 than win the division and at least make the playoffs? If the Browns were better they would have won the division no?
All I'm telling you is congrats on winning the division and getting to play another game and lose, nothing more, nothing less.
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I'm gonna have fun with you. Feisty. The steelers made a bed they had to lay in last season. Blount was cut which forced them to sign a guy from the street to carry the load in a playoff game. Are you telling me you would rather finish 7-9 than win the division and at least make the playoffs? If the Browns were better they would have won the division no?
All I'm telling you is congrats on winning the division and getting to play another game and lose, nothing more, nothing less.
All I'm telling you is congrats on winning the division and getting to play another game and lose, nothing more, nothing less.
Cool.
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You Stooler fans need to quit hi jacking this thread. Gipper put a lot of work in his calculations. Try to stay on course.Thank You! He started this thread because of me and I'm sure it took him ten minutes tops. Googled the depth chart and posed a question. go Browns
Yes, right. We had this topic in another thread and I decided to discuss it in a new thread in order to get more participation on it....not just you and I bantering it between ourselves. Why? Because it was a "legitimate football area of discussion" that you have been clammering for.
And it only took me about 2-3 minutes to put it together. And yes, I Googled the depth chart. That is what smart people do when they want to be accurate...the look stuff up.
It wasn't a criticism Gipper. Relax.
It wasn't a criticism Gipper. Relax.
Oh, fuck yes it was. That is what you always say "you wouldn't know anything if you didn't google". Well, yea.....that is how people get information in the 21st century. If we were having this discussion in 1985 we would have had to be in a bar or some such venue together....and I would have had to look information up in books or magazines or newspapers. (I have been there and done that btw...before you were born likely).
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It wasn't a criticism Gipper. Relax.
Oh, fuck yes it was. That is what you always say "you wouldn't know anything if you didn't google". Well, yea.....that is how people get information in the 21st century. If we were having this discussion in 1985 we would have had to be in a bar or some such venue together....and I would have had to look information up in books or magazines or newspapers. (I have been there and done that btw...before you were born likely).
Oh, fuck yes it was. That is what you always say "you wouldn't know anything if you didn't google". Well, yea.....that is how people get information in the 21st century. If we were having this discussion in 1985 we would have had to be in a bar or some such venue together....and I would have had to look information up in books or magazines or newspapers. (I have been there and done that btw...before you were born likely).
It really wasn't, he said it took you a long time. I said what I said..
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Long story short, swap steeler/browns QB corps and the steelers drop to the cellar and browns win the division. Similar talent levels all around, but means nothing without good QB play.
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Long story short, swap steeler/browns QB corps and the steelers drop to the cellar and browns win the division. Similar talent levels all around, but means nothing without good QB play.
Long story short, swap steeler/browns QB corps and the steelers drop to the cellar and browns win the division. Similar talent levels all around, but means nothing without good QB play.
I agree...but the Vag doesn't seem to see it that way.
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If our WIN was later in the season you likely would have LOST? What in gods name does that mean. If we won we won, how can we likely lose but definitively win?
What he meant was if the GAME was played later in the season. I'm surprised you couldn't figure that one out.
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I agree...but the Vag doesn't seem to see it that way.
But that is contradictory to what you sometimes hear...that Ben is overrated... he achieved success by riding on the back the Steelers team, not the other way around.
I guess it depends on the argument of the day on which waffling perspective you take.
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If our WIN was later in the season you likely would have LOST? What in gods name does that mean. If we won we won, how can we likely lose but definitively win?
What he meant was if the GAME was played later in the season. I'm surprised you couldn't figure that one out.
Stuart said:
What he meant was if the GAME was played later in the season. I'm surprised you couldn't figure that one out.
If my mother had wings she might fly like a bat and shit guano. (I just made that up....I kinda like it
)WTF The game was played when it was played. Do you want to revise history?
If Alex Mack hadn't gotten hurt, Brian Hoyer may not have lost his confidence and not gone into a brain dead hole and played better the rest of the year.
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I agree...but the Vag doesn't seem to see it that way.
But that is contradictory to what you sometimes hear...that Ben is overrated... he achieved success by riding on the back the Steelers team, not the other way around.
I guess it depends on the argument of the day on which waffling perspective you take.
Stuart said:
But that is contradictory to what you sometimes hear...that Ben is overrated... he achieved success by riding on the back the Steelers team, not the other way around.
I guess it depends on the argument of the day on which waffling perspective you take.
I am not one that says that. I think it is the other way around....or has been for many years now.
With one caveat.....I think that those first couple of years....when he was a rookie and they won 15 games....and his second season when the won that first SB....that perhaps is true.
That 2004-2005 era Steeler defense was one of the best in history.....rivalling the likes of the 1985 Bears/2000 Ravens/2002 Bucs. And BR was young....and it may be fair to say the Steelers won that SB in spite of him (as he really didn't play that well. Statistically it is still the worst game ever by a winning SB QB)
But there was a sea change after that. The 2008 SB was all BR essentially (plus one lucky play/inept play by the Cards). And he has been carrying that team ever since.
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Long story short, swap steeler/browns QB corps and the steelers drop to the cellar and browns win the division. Similar talent levels all around, but means nothing without good QB play.
Long story short, swap steeler/browns QB corps and the steelers drop to the cellar and browns win the division. Similar talent levels all around, but means nothing without good QB play.
How many teams in the NFL would win without their franchise qb? Teams are capable of going stretches but for the most part a winning season is pretty unlikely. The last team I remember personally was the patriots and cassell(sp) went on to start somewhere else. Yes if Ben were a brown the team would win more games but the steelers have a superior running back and receiving core and now with Cameron gone a superior tight end. Offensively the teams arent close, at least not from a ceiling/sky is the limit stand point. The steelers with mccown would score more points than the browns with mccown for example or the Browns with Ben would score less points than the Steelers with Ben.
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Stuart said:
But that is contradictory to what you sometimes hear...that Ben is overrated... he achieved success by riding on the back the Steelers team, not the other way around.
I guess it depends on the argument of the day on which waffling perspective you take.
I am not one that says that. I think it is the other way around....or has been for many years now.
With one caveat.....I think that those first couple of years....when he was a rookie and they won 15 games....and his second season when the won that first SB....that perhaps is true.
That 2004-2005 era Steeler defense was one of the best in history.....rivalling the likes of the 1985 Bears/2000 Ravens/2002 Bucs. And BR was young....and it may be fair to say the Steelers won that SB in spite of him (as he really didn't play that well. Statistically it is still the worst game ever by a winning SB QB)
But there was a sea change after that. The 2008 SB was all BR essentially (plus one lucky play/inept play by the Cards). And he has been carrying that team ever since.
I am not one that says that. I think it is the other way around....or has been for many years now.
With one caveat.....I think that those first couple of years....when he was a rookie and they won 15 games....and his second season when the won that first SB....that perhaps is true.
That 2004-2005 era Steeler defense was one of the best in history.....rivalling the likes of the 1985 Bears/2000 Ravens/2002 Bucs. And BR was young....and it may be fair to say the Steelers won that SB in spite of him (as he really didn't play that well. Statistically it is still the worst game ever by a winning SB QB)
But there was a sea change after that. The 2008 SB was all BR essentially (plus one lucky play/inept play by the Cards). And he has been carrying that team ever since.
Gipper I agree that Ben isn't overrated but the 2008 defense was one of the best ever.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Stuart said:
But that is contradictory to what you sometimes hear...that Ben is overrated... he achieved success by riding on the back the Steelers team, not the other way around.
I guess it depends on the argument of the day on which waffling perspective you take.
I am not one that says that. I think it is the other way around....or has been for many years now.
With one caveat.....I think that those first couple of years....when he was a rookie and they won 15 games....and his second season when the won that first SB....that perhaps is true.
That 2004-2005 era Steeler defense was one of the best in history.....rivalling the likes of the 1985 Bears/2000 Ravens/2002 Bucs. And BR was young....and it may be fair to say the Steelers won that SB in spite of him (as he really didn't play that well. Statistically it is still the worst game ever by a winning SB QB)
But there was a sea change after that. The 2008 SB was all BR essentially (plus one lucky play/inept play by the Cards). And he has been carrying that team ever since.
I am not one that says that. I think it is the other way around....or has been for many years now.
With one caveat.....I think that those first couple of years....when he was a rookie and they won 15 games....and his second season when the won that first SB....that perhaps is true.
That 2004-2005 era Steeler defense was one of the best in history.....rivalling the likes of the 1985 Bears/2000 Ravens/2002 Bucs. And BR was young....and it may be fair to say the Steelers won that SB in spite of him (as he really didn't play that well. Statistically it is still the worst game ever by a winning SB QB)
But there was a sea change after that. The 2008 SB was all BR essentially (plus one lucky play/inept play by the Cards). And he has been carrying that team ever since.
I can't be positive anyone on this board says that, but it's something I've heard many times....really good points btw.
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Stuart said:
What he meant was if the GAME was played later in the season. I'm surprised you couldn't figure that one out.
If my mother had wings she might fly like a bat and shit guano. (I just made that up....I kinda like it
)WTF The game was played when it was played. Do you want to revise history?
If Alex Mack hadn't gotten hurt, Brian Hoyer may not have lost his confidence and not gone into a brain dead hole and played better the rest of the year.
If my mother had wings she might fly like a bat and shit guano. (I just made that up....I kinda like it
)WTF The game was played when it was played. Do you want to revise history?
If Alex Mack hadn't gotten hurt, Brian Hoyer may not have lost his confidence and not gone into a brain dead hole and played better the rest of the year.
Lol, no. I'm not agreeing with Vagitron nor disagreeing....I am just clarifying what he meant to help out ColumbusQueen with those silly questions.
Besides, it's not about wanting to "revise history"...it's about coulda, woulda, an shoulda, which is what much of sports talk is about.
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If my mother had wings she might fly like a bat and shit guano. (I just made that up....I kinda like it
)WTF The game was played when it was played. Do you want to revise history?
If Alex Mack hadn't gotten hurt, Brian Hoyer may not have lost his confidence and not gone into a brain dead hole and played better the rest of the year.
Lol, no. I'm not agreeing with Vagitron nor disagreeing....I am just clarifying what he meant to help out ColumbusQueen with those silly questions.
Besides, it's not about wanting to "revise history"...it's about coulda, woulda, an shoulda, which is what much of sports talk is about.
Stuart said:
Lol, no. I'm not agreeing with Vagitron nor disagreeing....I am just clarifying what he meant to help out ColumbusQueen with those silly questions.Besides, it's not about wanting to "revise history"...it's about coulda, woulda, an shoulda, which is what much of sports talk is about.
I think he was hung up on me saying "move the win" when I really should have said move the game. He was being "cute". Either way your interpretation is what I meant and I completely agree...woulda, coulda, shoulda.
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I am not one that says that. I think it is the other way around....or has been for many years now.
With one caveat.....I think that those first couple of years....when he was a rookie and they won 15 games....and his second season when the won that first SB....that perhaps is true.
That 2004-2005 era Steeler defense was one of the best in history.....rivalling the likes of the 1985 Bears/2000 Ravens/2002 Bucs. And BR was young....and it may be fair to say the Steelers won that SB in spite of him (as he really didn't play that well. Statistically it is still the worst game ever by a winning SB QB)
But there was a sea change after that. The 2008 SB was all BR essentially (plus one lucky play/inept play by the Cards). And he has been carrying that team ever since.
Gipper I agree that Ben isn't overrated but the 2008 defense was one of the best ever.
Gipper I agree that Ben isn't overrated but the 2008 defense was one of the best ever.
My recollection was that 2005 was better.....but apparently I was wrong.
I see that the Steelers in 2005 were fourth overall in both yards and points allowed, where the 2008 team was first in both fewest yds. and points.
On offense, in 2005 the Steelers were 15th in yards, 9th in scoring. But in 2008 they were 22d in yards and 20th in scoring.
So....apparently the Steeler offense and defense was better in 2005 than in 2008. I guess the perception ...at least to me....is that the Steelers Offense was better in 08 because BR was the much better QB in 08 than he was in 05.
Here is the breakdown of the offense:
2005: 5th in the league in rushing, 24th passing
2008: 23rd in rushing, 17th in passing.
They were a better rushing team in 05, a better passing team in 08.
Maybe because they were such a more dominant running team in 2005.....and their defense was no slouch....4th in both categories, that is seemed a more defensive/run oriented team in 2005....which I think it was. Its just that in 2008 BR carried a lot more of the offensive burden....which he did, that it seemed a more offensive oriented team.
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Here's Yahoo's ranking of the Steelers GM that casts an interesting light on the situation of the franchise as a whole:
19. Kevin Colbert, Steelers
Last Years Ranking: 23
Kevin Colbert is unreasonably good at drafting receivers. The rest? Lets just say hes lucky to have Ben Roethlisberger. Colbert has let the Steelers typically elite defense slip into mediocrity, while finding offensive linemen capable of keeping Roethlisberger upright has proven a daunting challenge for the Steelers personnel man. Colberts line was improved in 2014, but his collection of 53 players still failed to win a playoff game for the fourth time in as many years. With Dick LeBeau and Troy Polamalu both gone, Colbert is running out of connections to the Steelers 2000s golden age, which will only shine a brighter light on his roster failures. Colbert has been around for some boom times, but the further the Steelers get from the Bill Cowher era, the less clear it gets just how much of an asset Colbert really is.
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