Sean Jones in Philly Green?
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I remember hearing that Georgia's coaching staff told Savage to be patient with Jones. They told him that it took Jones a full two years to adjust to playing safety (he was a QB in high school). And when Grantham was fired, we were told that Jones didn't respond well to Grantham barking at him whenever he made a mistake.
That leads me to believe that coachability may be a factor, along with the durability/knee issues. I still would have liked to see us re-sign him, but I understand why the new regime wouldn't be willing to give him the type of money he was asking for.
As mz the pussy & JD have pointed out, this year's safety class kinda sucks, whereas next year's looks to be phenomenal. With that in mind, I'm beginning to wonder whether we should have transition or franchise tagged Jones. Sure, we would have overpaid him, but we'd be put in a position where we'd either have Jones return to borderline-elite form or we'd have him off the books when we take one of the elite safeties in next year's draft.
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I remember hearing that Georgia's coaching staff told Savage to be patient with Jones. They told him that it took Jones a full two years to adjust to playing safety (he was a QB in high school). And when Grantham was fired, we were told that Jones didn't respond well to Grantham barking at him whenever he made a mistake.
That leads me to believe that coachability may be a factor, along with the durability/knee issues. I still would have liked to see us re-sign him, but I understand why the new regime wouldn't be willing to give him the type of money he was asking for.
As mz the pussy & JD have pointed out, this year's safety class kinda sucks, whereas next year's looks to be phenomenal. With that in mind, I'm beginning to wonder whether we should have transition or franchise tagged Jones. Sure, we would have overpaid him, but we'd be put in a position where we'd either have Jones return to borderline-elite form or we'd have him off the books when we take one of the elite safeties in next year's draft.
Aloysius said:
Sure, we would have overpaid him, but we'd be put in a position where we'd either have Jones return to borderline-elite form or we'd have him off the books when we take one of the elite safeties in next year's draft.Borderline elite form? Huh???
WTF has this guy been doing to make you think he is worth a tag? The guy was okay, but his playmaking has been fleeting. The guy HAD promise, but not anymore. You want to give this kid $6M on a "chance" he'll be borderline elite, when he never has been elite before?
I don't get what you guys think of him. What plays stand out? What games did he put together that changed the scheme of things? He is a mediocre safety - at BEST. And not fully recovered from a knee injury.
Mah, no loss. We need pressure up front. Jones hung plenty a CB out to dry in his years here.
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Aloysius said:
Sure, we would have overpaid him, but we'd be put in a position where we'd either have Jones return to borderline-elite form or we'd have him off the books when we take one of the elite safeties in next year's draft.Borderline elite form? Huh???
WTF has this guy been doing to make you think he is worth a tag? The guy was okay, but his playmaking has been fleeting. The guy HAD promise, but not anymore. You want to give this kid $6M on a "chance" he'll be borderline elite, when he never has been elite before?
I don't get what you guys think of him. What plays stand out? What games did he put together that changed the scheme of things? He is a mediocre safety - at BEST. And not fully recovered from a knee injury.
Mah, no loss. We need pressure up front. Jones hung plenty a CB out to dry in his years here.
WTF has this guy been doing to make you think he is worth a tag? The guy was okay, but his playmaking has been fleeting.
Since you don't like stats, here they are again. Perhaps you couldn't figure out XXXXX meant "Jones"...
XXXXX ranks third among safeties behind Baltimore's Ed Reed and St. Louis' Oshiomogho Atogwe with 14 interceptions since 2006. He had four picks in XXXXX's final six games last season. XXXXX missed four games after having surgery on his right knee, but played the last 11.
The 27-year-old XXXXX has recorded 286 tackles and three forced fumbles in 60 games, including 44 starts. XXXXX, listed at 6-foot-1 and 225 pounds, had his best season in '06 when he finished with 107 1/2 tackles and five interceptions.
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I remember hearing that Georgia's coaching staff told Savage to be patient with Jones. They told him that it took Jones a full two years to adjust to playing safety (he was a QB in high school). And when Grantham was fired, we were told that Jones didn't respond well to Grantham barking at him whenever he made a mistake.
That leads me to believe that coachability may be a factor, along with the durability/knee issues. I still would have liked to see us re-sign him, but I understand why the new regime wouldn't be willing to give him the type of money he was asking for.
As mz the pussy & JD have pointed out, this year's safety class kinda sucks, whereas next year's looks to be phenomenal. With that in mind, I'm beginning to wonder whether we should have transition or franchise tagged Jones. Sure, we would have overpaid him, but we'd be put in a position where we'd either have Jones return to borderline-elite form or we'd have him off the books when we take one of the elite safeties in next year's draft.
Aloysius said:
I remember hearing that Georgia's coaching staff told Savage to be patient with Jones. They told him that it took Jones a full two years to adjust to playing safety (he was a QB in high school). And when Grantham was fired, we were told that Jones didn't respond well to Grantham barking at him whenever he made a mistake.That leads me to believe that coachability may be a factor, along with the durability/knee issues. I still would have liked to see us re-sign him, but I understand why the new regime wouldn't be willing to give him the type of money he was asking for.
As mz the pussy & JD have pointed out, this year's safety class kinda sucks, whereas next year's looks to be phenomenal. With that in mind, I'm beginning to wonder whether we should have transition or franchise tagged Jones. Sure, we would have overpaid him, but we'd be put in a position where we'd either have Jones return to borderline-elite form or we'd have him off the books when we take one of the elite safeties in next year's draft.
Jones throws a beautiful ball in practice, Alo, so I figured he probably played some QB at some point. Winslow does too, but he never played QB.
I get your point, but I think when you're cleaning house, it's best to move on as much as possible so you know what's in front of you. I just don't see how you can spend that much cash on a guy who has major knee issues.
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WTF has this guy been doing to make you think he is worth a tag? The guy was okay, but his playmaking has been fleeting.
Since you don't like stats, here they are again. Perhaps you couldn't figure out XXXXX meant "Jones"...
XXXXX ranks third among safeties behind Baltimore's Ed Reed and St. Louis' Oshiomogho Atogwe with 14 interceptions since 2006. He had four picks in XXXXX's final six games last season. XXXXX missed four games after having surgery on his right knee, but played the last 11.
The 27-year-old XXXXX has recorded 286 tackles and three forced fumbles in 60 games, including 44 starts. XXXXX, listed at 6-foot-1 and 225 pounds, had his best season in '06 when he finished with 107 1/2 tackles and five interceptions.
mz. said:
Since you don't like stats, here they are again. Perhaps you couldn't figure out XXXXX meant "Jones"...Just because he had 14 INT's doesn't mean we needed to shell out top 5 money to the guy. Ed Reed had 22 INT's in the same time span. He is not worth what he was asking from the Browns, and then when he went to the open market he got ONLY a 1 year deal!!!!!. Seems the rest of the league - and ME - know better than you.
Our problems are not at safety, so why in the world you want to shell out bank to a mediocre Safety with no game changing ability I will never know.
You seem to be one to hold onto losing propositions a lot on this board. Lets just say you and I have beat this to its death and move on. You bore me.
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mz. said:
Since you don't like stats, here they are again. Perhaps you couldn't figure out XXXXX meant "Jones"...Just because he had 14 INT's doesn't mean we needed to shell out top 5 money to the guy. Ed Reed had 22 INT's in the same time span. He is not worth what he was asking from the Browns, and then when he went to the open market he got ONLY a 1 year deal!!!!!. Seems the rest of the league - and ME - know better than you.
Our problems are not at safety, so why in the world you want to shell out bank to a mediocre Safety with no game changing ability I will never know.
You seem to be one to hold onto losing propositions a lot on this board. Lets just say you and I have beat this to its death and move on. You bore me.
Our problems are not at safety
It's a huge problem now. Are we in the business of creating MORE problems now? I thought we had enough as it was.
Jesus Vegas, you are one belligerent dude. Especially when you're wrong.
You bore me.
You seem easily bored. Guessing that's why cardio doesn't suit you...
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mz. said:
Since you don't like stats, here they are again. Perhaps you couldn't figure out XXXXX meant "Jones"...Just because he had 14 INT's doesn't mean we needed to shell out top 5 money to the guy. Ed Reed had 22 INT's in the same time span. He is not worth what he was asking from the Browns, and then when he went to the open market he got ONLY a 1 year deal!!!!!. Seems the rest of the league - and ME - know better than you.
Our problems are not at safety, so why in the world you want to shell out bank to a mediocre Safety with no game changing ability I will never know.
You seem to be one to hold onto losing propositions a lot on this board. Lets just say you and I have beat this to its death and move on. You bore me.
Just because he had 14 INT's doesn't mean we needed to shell out top 5 money to the guy. Ed Reed had 22 INT's in the same time span. He is not worth what he was asking from the Browns, and then when he went to the open market he got ONLY a 1 year deal!!!!!. Seems the rest of the league - and ME - know better than you.
Our problems are not at safety, so why in the world you want to shell out bank to a mediocre Safety with no game changing ability I will never know.
You seem to be one to hold onto losing propositions a lot on this board. Lets just say you and I have beat this to its death and move on. You bore me.
I don't know why so many people are bent out of shape on losing Jones, same with Winslow. Our team was mediocre at best even WITH these guys. They can be replaced. NO WORRIES.
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Just because he had 14 INT's doesn't mean we needed to shell out top 5 money to the guy. Ed Reed had 22 INT's in the same time span. He is not worth what he was asking from the Browns, and then when he went to the open market he got ONLY a 1 year deal!!!!!. Seems the rest of the league - and ME - know better than you.
Our problems are not at safety, so why in the world you want to shell out bank to a mediocre Safety with no game changing ability I will never know.
You seem to be one to hold onto losing propositions a lot on this board. Lets just say you and I have beat this to its death and move on. You bore me.
I don't know why so many people are bent out of shape on losing Jones, same with Winslow. Our team was mediocre at best even WITH these guys. They can be replaced. NO WORRIES.
John McClane said:
I don't know why so many people are bent out of shape on losing Jones, same with Winslow. Our team was mediocre at best even WITH these guys. They can be replaced. NO WORRIES.The offseason, FA and the draft are suppose to be about getting better as a team. How the hell was signing Adams and Jones going to make us any better. Jones was bad in coverage and was tenitive in run support with his knee problem. I'll take William Moore, Patrick chung, Nick Harris, even Chip Vaughn over Jones anyday because they would be an upgrade. All have more upside then a oft injured Jones with a cronic knee problem. They also can be had for about a third of what Jones was asking.
There's a reason why we are trying to accumulate extra draft picks. That reason is to aquire players that will make us better.
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Our problems are not at safety
It's a huge problem now. Are we in the business of creating MORE problems now? I thought we had enough as it was.
Jesus Vegas, you are one belligerent dude. Especially when you're wrong.
You bore me.
You seem easily bored. Guessing that's why cardio doesn't suit you...
mz. said:
It's a huge problem now. Are we in the business of creating MORE problems now? I thought we had enough as it was.How so? Are you saying we now have a huge hole to fill @ TE also? You have no idea what our holes are. If you want to keep taking stabs in the dark everytime a player you're in love with is cut, maybe you should not be a fan of the NFL.
You seem easily bored. Guessing that's why cardio doesn't suit you...
Are you trying to insult me? Is this your A game? LMAO. You can get Retard real easy I see. 100% douchebaggery.
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PS that was a B-minus fat-guy joke, at worst.
And do not accuse me of man-love for some individual player. That's a cop-out of an argument. The only thing I love is winning, DesertDawg.
I guess I just have to accept you as one of those geniuses who is never, ever wrong and deal accordingly. I say we have a huge gaping whole in our secondary that used to be manned by an above-average safety. Do we even have another SS on the roster?
Now if football knowledge was bacon cheeseburgers...nah.
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John McClane said:
I don't know why so many people are bent out of shape on losing Jones, same with Winslow. Our team was mediocre at best even WITH these guys. They can be replaced. NO WORRIES.The offseason, FA and the draft are suppose to be about getting better as a team. How the hell was signing Adams and Jones going to make us any better. Jones was bad in coverage and was tenitive in run support with his knee problem. I'll take William Moore, Patrick chung, Nick Harris, even Chip Vaughn over Jones anyday because they would be an upgrade. All have more upside then a oft injured Jones with a cronic knee problem. They also can be had for about a third of what Jones was asking.
There's a reason why we are trying to accumulate extra draft picks. That reason is to aquire players that will make us better.
The offseason, FA and the draft are suppose to be about getting better as a team. How the hell was signing Adams and Jones going to make us any better. Jones was bad in coverage and was tenitive in run support with his knee problem. I'll take William Moore, Patrick chung, Nick Harris, even Chip Vaughn over Jones anyday because they would be an upgrade. All have more upside then a oft injured Jones with a cronic knee problem. They also can be had for about a third of what Jones was asking.
There's a reason why we are trying to accumulate extra draft picks. That reason is to aquire players that will make us better.
This is my point about Edwards also. A guy on another thread is telling me what a playmaker Edwards is and I'm trying to figure out how many more games we can win with him as our playmaker.
Underachievers making a ton of money are exactly what we don't need right now. Edwards can bring us picks to help replace Jones at a much lower cost and so can DA. Moving all these guys and cutting Lewis frees up some jack and let's us get on with doing this the right way with Mancocks guys.
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Our weak point was getting beat underneath.....Strong, fast, pass rushing, drop back in coverage linebackers is what we need. We also need guys who can take away the long game of the Holmes/Ward combo. Every team has "holes"....Some more than others. Getting rid of mediocre high dollar players is a good start. If we resign McGinnest I'll slit my wrists!
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The offseason, FA and the draft are suppose to be about getting better as a team. How the hell was signing Adams and Jones going to make us any better. Jones was bad in coverage and was tenitive in run support with his knee problem. I'll take William Moore, Patrick chung, Nick Harris, even Chip Vaughn over Jones anyday because they would be an upgrade. All have more upside then a oft injured Jones with a cronic knee problem. They also can be had for about a third of what Jones was asking.
There's a reason why we are trying to accumulate extra draft picks. That reason is to aquire players that will make us better.
This is my point about Edwards also. A guy on another thread is telling me what a playmaker Edwards is and I'm trying to figure out how many more games we can win with him as our playmaker.
Underachievers making a ton of money are exactly what we don't need right now. Edwards can bring us picks to help replace Jones at a much lower cost and so can DA. Moving all these guys and cutting Lewis frees up some jack and let's us get on with doing this the right way with Mancocks guys.
This is my point about Edwards also. A guy on another thread is telling me what a playmaker Edwards is and I'm trying to figure out how many more games we can win with him as our playmaker.
Underachievers making a ton of money are exactly what we don't need right now. Edwards can bring us picks to help replace Jones at a much lower cost and so can DA. Moving all these guys and cutting Lewis frees up some jack and let's us get on with doing this the right way with Mancocks guys.
BINGO
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PS that was a B-minus fat-guy joke, at worst.
And do not accuse me of man-love for some individual player. That's a cop-out of an argument. The only thing I love is winning, DesertDawg.
I guess I just have to accept you as one of those geniuses who is never, ever wrong and deal accordingly. I say we have a huge gaping whole in our secondary that used to be manned by an above-average safety. Do we even have another SS on the roster?
Now if football knowledge was bacon cheeseburgers...nah.
mz. said:
I guess I just have to accept you as one of those geniuses who is never, ever wrong and deal accordingly.I don't thnk losing Jones is a big deal and you do. There isn't much more to it than that. Nobody is claiming genius so quit with the martyr syndrome every time someone dsiagrees or takes opposing viewpoints. Getting your panties in a bunch is not an affective way of debating.
Sean didn't do enough to warrant the long term deal he wanted, IMO. And he wasn't taking the same "1 year prove it deal" from us he took from Philly.
I mean come on man, the kid is 29 and ONLY GOT A ONE YEAR DEAL.
To me that doesn't make me feel we lost a ton of talent and upside. Hey I liked Jones and wanted him to stay, but losing him is not leaving us with a gaping hole. Is Adams better? No. Is he that much worse, or is Jones that much better? Not from where I sit, and not from what I have seen from Jones.
Our problems are up front. LB's and DE's. Jones wasn't making many game changing or season changing plays, he wasn't a huge leader, and he has question marks with his knees. Do I wish we still had him? Sure, but not for the terms he wants, which reportedly us top 5 money and 4-5 years.
It is an opinion, mz the pussy. Doesn't mean you're wrong or I am right. This forum is a way to express a viewpoint and tangle with Browns fans. Can I suggest maybe you take a break from the board for a while and not get so wound up?
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This all goes back to the same theme.
Mangini is getting rid of the loudmouths and injury prone dudes who cripple our team in many ways every year.
This guy was all in the media yapping about how he was insulted and hurt that he wasn't resigned and calling out the coach because the coach told the media he was injured and he didn't think he was, etc.
You will learn to keep your mouth shut as a player under Mangini. Or you're gone.
This is a TEAM they're trying to build, not a bunch of primadonna bitches that can't control their emotions when it's that time of the month.
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according to espn the deal is only worth 3 million. That is not alot. I would have taken him back for more than 3 mil.
according to espn the deal is only worth 3 million. That is not alot. I would have taken him back for more than 3 mil.
We paid him over $4 million last year with his roster bonus and he wanted a multi year contract with a raise and a good chunk guaranteed. His complaint was with Savage last year when he asked for a contract extension in training camp. He claimed he didn't have any problems with his knee and then went on to have knee surgery.
He said at the end of the year that his knee wasn't a problem. Well if that's the case, and he was healthy, then I'm glad he moved on.
Sometimes reality hits you in the face when you think you are worth more then the market says. Mangini told him to go ahead and test the market and see what his value was and the Browns would be willing to talk to him about a contract. Jones told the organization that if they let him go into free agency without offering him a contract that he would sign with another team.
So, he has to take a 30% pay cut and a one year contract, now that's a real dick. True story from one of the Brown's beat writers and former OBR writer.
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@inspecta said:
Yeah, that's not a whole lot. Crap...I'm gonna just keep trudging along with the knowledge that the Browns FO AKA Mankok has a plan and this is all part of the plan.
If I start thinking these guys don't know what they're doing and we're most certainly in store for another 4-12 season the next few months are going to be very depressing.
You're assuming he'd take that to stay here. What makes you think we didn't offer more, or that we didn't try to get a deal done? What makes you think our terms didn't match Philly's?
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mz. said:
I guess I just have to accept you as one of those geniuses who is never, ever wrong and deal accordingly.I don't thnk losing Jones is a big deal and you do. There isn't much more to it than that. Nobody is claiming genius so quit with the martyr syndrome every time someone dsiagrees or takes opposing viewpoints. Getting your panties in a bunch is not an affective way of debating.
Sean didn't do enough to warrant the long term deal he wanted, IMO. And he wasn't taking the same "1 year prove it deal" from us he took from Philly.
I mean come on man, the kid is 29 and ONLY GOT A ONE YEAR DEAL.
To me that doesn't make me feel we lost a ton of talent and upside. Hey I liked Jones and wanted him to stay, but losing him is not leaving us with a gaping hole. Is Adams better? No. Is he that much worse, or is Jones that much better? Not from where I sit, and not from what I have seen from Jones.
Our problems are up front. LB's and DE's. Jones wasn't making many game changing or season changing plays, he wasn't a huge leader, and he has question marks with his knees. Do I wish we still had him? Sure, but not for the terms he wants, which reportedly us top 5 money and 4-5 years.
It is an opinion, mz the pussy. Doesn't mean you're wrong or I am right. This forum is a way to express a viewpoint and tangle with Browns fans. Can I suggest maybe you take a break from the board for a while and not get so wound up?
It is an opinion, mz the pussy. Doesn't mean you're wrong or I am right.
Seems the rest of the league - and ME - know better than you.
You seemed pretty damn sure the other day. And if you think I'm the only "dissenting" opinion here, well, ...
Can I suggest maybe you take a break from the board for a while and not get so wound up?
Sage advice from our calmest, least-confrontational poster.
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