Sean Jones in Philly Green?
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Our problems are not at safety
It's a huge problem now. Are we in the business of creating MORE problems now? I thought we had enough as it was.
Jesus Vegas, you are one belligerent dude. Especially when you're wrong.
You bore me.
You seem easily bored. Guessing that's why cardio doesn't suit you...
mz. said:
It's a huge problem now. Are we in the business of creating MORE problems now? I thought we had enough as it was.How so? Are you saying we now have a huge hole to fill @ TE also? You have no idea what our holes are. If you want to keep taking stabs in the dark everytime a player you're in love with is cut, maybe you should not be a fan of the NFL.
You seem easily bored. Guessing that's why cardio doesn't suit you...
Are you trying to insult me? Is this your A game? LMAO. You can get Retard real easy I see. 100% douchebaggery.
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PS that was a B-minus fat-guy joke, at worst.
And do not accuse me of man-love for some individual player. That's a cop-out of an argument. The only thing I love is winning, DesertDawg.
I guess I just have to accept you as one of those geniuses who is never, ever wrong and deal accordingly. I say we have a huge gaping whole in our secondary that used to be manned by an above-average safety. Do we even have another SS on the roster?
Now if football knowledge was bacon cheeseburgers...nah.
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John McClane said:
I don't know why so many people are bent out of shape on losing Jones, same with Winslow. Our team was mediocre at best even WITH these guys. They can be replaced. NO WORRIES.The offseason, FA and the draft are suppose to be about getting better as a team. How the hell was signing Adams and Jones going to make us any better. Jones was bad in coverage and was tenitive in run support with his knee problem. I'll take William Moore, Patrick chung, Nick Harris, even Chip Vaughn over Jones anyday because they would be an upgrade. All have more upside then a oft injured Jones with a cronic knee problem. They also can be had for about a third of what Jones was asking.
There's a reason why we are trying to accumulate extra draft picks. That reason is to aquire players that will make us better.
The offseason, FA and the draft are suppose to be about getting better as a team. How the hell was signing Adams and Jones going to make us any better. Jones was bad in coverage and was tenitive in run support with his knee problem. I'll take William Moore, Patrick chung, Nick Harris, even Chip Vaughn over Jones anyday because they would be an upgrade. All have more upside then a oft injured Jones with a cronic knee problem. They also can be had for about a third of what Jones was asking.
There's a reason why we are trying to accumulate extra draft picks. That reason is to aquire players that will make us better.
This is my point about Edwards also. A guy on another thread is telling me what a playmaker Edwards is and I'm trying to figure out how many more games we can win with him as our playmaker.
Underachievers making a ton of money are exactly what we don't need right now. Edwards can bring us picks to help replace Jones at a much lower cost and so can DA. Moving all these guys and cutting Lewis frees up some jack and let's us get on with doing this the right way with Mancocks guys.
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Our weak point was getting beat underneath.....Strong, fast, pass rushing, drop back in coverage linebackers is what we need. We also need guys who can take away the long game of the Holmes/Ward combo. Every team has "holes"....Some more than others. Getting rid of mediocre high dollar players is a good start. If we resign McGinnest I'll slit my wrists!
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The offseason, FA and the draft are suppose to be about getting better as a team. How the hell was signing Adams and Jones going to make us any better. Jones was bad in coverage and was tenitive in run support with his knee problem. I'll take William Moore, Patrick chung, Nick Harris, even Chip Vaughn over Jones anyday because they would be an upgrade. All have more upside then a oft injured Jones with a cronic knee problem. They also can be had for about a third of what Jones was asking.
There's a reason why we are trying to accumulate extra draft picks. That reason is to aquire players that will make us better.
This is my point about Edwards also. A guy on another thread is telling me what a playmaker Edwards is and I'm trying to figure out how many more games we can win with him as our playmaker.
Underachievers making a ton of money are exactly what we don't need right now. Edwards can bring us picks to help replace Jones at a much lower cost and so can DA. Moving all these guys and cutting Lewis frees up some jack and let's us get on with doing this the right way with Mancocks guys.
This is my point about Edwards also. A guy on another thread is telling me what a playmaker Edwards is and I'm trying to figure out how many more games we can win with him as our playmaker.
Underachievers making a ton of money are exactly what we don't need right now. Edwards can bring us picks to help replace Jones at a much lower cost and so can DA. Moving all these guys and cutting Lewis frees up some jack and let's us get on with doing this the right way with Mancocks guys.
BINGO
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PS that was a B-minus fat-guy joke, at worst.
And do not accuse me of man-love for some individual player. That's a cop-out of an argument. The only thing I love is winning, DesertDawg.
I guess I just have to accept you as one of those geniuses who is never, ever wrong and deal accordingly. I say we have a huge gaping whole in our secondary that used to be manned by an above-average safety. Do we even have another SS on the roster?
Now if football knowledge was bacon cheeseburgers...nah.
mz. said:
I guess I just have to accept you as one of those geniuses who is never, ever wrong and deal accordingly.I don't thnk losing Jones is a big deal and you do. There isn't much more to it than that. Nobody is claiming genius so quit with the martyr syndrome every time someone dsiagrees or takes opposing viewpoints. Getting your panties in a bunch is not an affective way of debating.
Sean didn't do enough to warrant the long term deal he wanted, IMO. And he wasn't taking the same "1 year prove it deal" from us he took from Philly.
I mean come on man, the kid is 29 and ONLY GOT A ONE YEAR DEAL.
To me that doesn't make me feel we lost a ton of talent and upside. Hey I liked Jones and wanted him to stay, but losing him is not leaving us with a gaping hole. Is Adams better? No. Is he that much worse, or is Jones that much better? Not from where I sit, and not from what I have seen from Jones.
Our problems are up front. LB's and DE's. Jones wasn't making many game changing or season changing plays, he wasn't a huge leader, and he has question marks with his knees. Do I wish we still had him? Sure, but not for the terms he wants, which reportedly us top 5 money and 4-5 years.
It is an opinion, mz the pussy. Doesn't mean you're wrong or I am right. This forum is a way to express a viewpoint and tangle with Browns fans. Can I suggest maybe you take a break from the board for a while and not get so wound up?
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This all goes back to the same theme.
Mangini is getting rid of the loudmouths and injury prone dudes who cripple our team in many ways every year.
This guy was all in the media yapping about how he was insulted and hurt that he wasn't resigned and calling out the coach because the coach told the media he was injured and he didn't think he was, etc.
You will learn to keep your mouth shut as a player under Mangini. Or you're gone.
This is a TEAM they're trying to build, not a bunch of primadonna bitches that can't control their emotions when it's that time of the month.
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according to espn the deal is only worth 3 million. That is not alot. I would have taken him back for more than 3 mil.
according to espn the deal is only worth 3 million. That is not alot. I would have taken him back for more than 3 mil.
We paid him over $4 million last year with his roster bonus and he wanted a multi year contract with a raise and a good chunk guaranteed. His complaint was with Savage last year when he asked for a contract extension in training camp. He claimed he didn't have any problems with his knee and then went on to have knee surgery.
He said at the end of the year that his knee wasn't a problem. Well if that's the case, and he was healthy, then I'm glad he moved on.
Sometimes reality hits you in the face when you think you are worth more then the market says. Mangini told him to go ahead and test the market and see what his value was and the Browns would be willing to talk to him about a contract. Jones told the organization that if they let him go into free agency without offering him a contract that he would sign with another team.
So, he has to take a 30% pay cut and a one year contract, now that's a real dick. True story from one of the Brown's beat writers and former OBR writer.
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@inspecta said:
Yeah, that's not a whole lot. Crap...I'm gonna just keep trudging along with the knowledge that the Browns FO AKA Mankok has a plan and this is all part of the plan.
If I start thinking these guys don't know what they're doing and we're most certainly in store for another 4-12 season the next few months are going to be very depressing.
You're assuming he'd take that to stay here. What makes you think we didn't offer more, or that we didn't try to get a deal done? What makes you think our terms didn't match Philly's?
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mz. said:
I guess I just have to accept you as one of those geniuses who is never, ever wrong and deal accordingly.I don't thnk losing Jones is a big deal and you do. There isn't much more to it than that. Nobody is claiming genius so quit with the martyr syndrome every time someone dsiagrees or takes opposing viewpoints. Getting your panties in a bunch is not an affective way of debating.
Sean didn't do enough to warrant the long term deal he wanted, IMO. And he wasn't taking the same "1 year prove it deal" from us he took from Philly.
I mean come on man, the kid is 29 and ONLY GOT A ONE YEAR DEAL.
To me that doesn't make me feel we lost a ton of talent and upside. Hey I liked Jones and wanted him to stay, but losing him is not leaving us with a gaping hole. Is Adams better? No. Is he that much worse, or is Jones that much better? Not from where I sit, and not from what I have seen from Jones.
Our problems are up front. LB's and DE's. Jones wasn't making many game changing or season changing plays, he wasn't a huge leader, and he has question marks with his knees. Do I wish we still had him? Sure, but not for the terms he wants, which reportedly us top 5 money and 4-5 years.
It is an opinion, mz the pussy. Doesn't mean you're wrong or I am right. This forum is a way to express a viewpoint and tangle with Browns fans. Can I suggest maybe you take a break from the board for a while and not get so wound up?
It is an opinion, mz the pussy. Doesn't mean you're wrong or I am right.
Seems the rest of the league - and ME - know better than you.
You seemed pretty damn sure the other day. And if you think I'm the only "dissenting" opinion here, well, ...
Can I suggest maybe you take a break from the board for a while and not get so wound up?
Sage advice from our calmest, least-confrontational poster.
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@inspecta said:
Yeah, that's not a whole lot. Crap...I'm gonna just keep trudging along with the knowledge that the Browns FO AKA Mankok has a plan and this is all part of the plan.
If I start thinking these guys don't know what they're doing and we're most certainly in store for another 4-12 season the next few months are going to be very depressing.
You're assuming he'd take that to stay here. What makes you think we didn't offer more, or that we didn't try to get a deal done? What makes you think our terms didn't match Philly's?
You're assuming he'd take that to stay here. What makes you think we didn't offer more, or that we didn't try to get a deal done? What makes you think our terms didn't match Philly's?
He wanted a long term contract form us at over $4million a year with a hunk guaranteed. He gave us till Feb 27th to get a contract done or said he would sign elsewhere.
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Sounds like he tried to bully the FO into a bad contract that he probably would have gotten with the old regime. No more blown out contracts for people who dont produce. Sounds good to me.
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Sean Jones is a guy you roll the dice on and give that contract to, he's young and ready to break out. You will all see this when he's one of the top safeties in the NFC next season while playing for a real defense.
Sean Jones is a guy you roll the dice on and give that contract to, he's young and ready to break out. You will all see this when he's one of the top safeties in the NFC next season while playing for a real defense.
When's the breakout, he's always injured.
He also has major knee problems that could end his career on any play. He may have missed as many games as he played for the Browns. He can't cover and since his knee problems he has lost his speed.
For me a top SS should be able to garner a long term contact for big bucks. 1 year at $3 mil with only the signing bonus guaranteed shows me they are taking a chance to fill a need. He's a stopgap for them.
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People seem to ignore the fact that Jones' knee is pretty screwed up. I made this point earlier, but two of our main staples that are already cleared outta here by Mancock are Winslow and Jones, two chronic knee problem guys. This is another reason I wouldn't be surprised to see Edwards moved. Even though he hasn't had any issues since his reconstruction, it still means he has prior damaged goods to consider when deciding whether to extend him.
I don't mind this philosophy at all, the Browns have been depending on damaged goods entirely too long now. Tucker is an exception, but he just took a restructured deal and we need that guy.
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BTW if anyone wants to see some William Moore here you go... The kid has DRIVE, you can tell he plays football because he likes it
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Nice highlight reel, Playground. Moore was great as a junior; the problem is that he didn't achieve that same level of production this year.
Just look the stats:
2007: 71 tackles, 9 TFL's, 8 INT
2008: 55 tackles, 6.5 TFL's, 1 INT
Had he declared last year, he would have been a surefire first round pick. Now, some people don't even think he's one of the top five safeties in this year's draft.
That could make him a great value in late Round 2/early 3. Or it could make him a bust.
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Nice highlight reel, Playground. Moore was great as a junior; the problem is that he didn't achieve that same level of production this year.
Just look the stats:
2007: 71 tackles, 9 TFL's, 8 INT
2008: 55 tackles, 6.5 TFL's, 1 INT
Had he declared last year, he would have been a surefire first round pick. Now, some people don't even think he's one of the top five safeties in this year's draft.
That could make him a great value in late Round 2/early 3. Or it could make him a bust.
Aloysius said:
Nice highlight reel, Playground. Moore was great as a junior; the problem is that he didn't achieve that same level of production this year.Just look the stats:
2007: 71 tackles, 9 TFL's, 8 INT
2008: 55 tackles, 6.5 TFL's, 1 INT
Had he declared last year, he would have been a surefire first round pick. Now, some people don't even think he's one of the top five safeties in this year's draft.
That could make him a great value in late Round 2/early 3. Or it could make him a bust.
Since his defensive coordinator is now our LBs coach we should get an idea of what he feels about him as a SS. BTW, 2007 is indicitive of how he plays when healthy. He was injured part of 2008. Most draft experts still have him as one of their top SSs in the draft. Still #1 SS on OBR's board. Kiper now has him behind Delmas as the #2 SS. So, he is right there with Delmas and Chung as top SS, this is not counting FS.
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