Why u no WR?
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If your relying on a WR to be what wins you 10 games, then no that is not going to work. But you need someone who can consistently get open to help take the pressure off of your mediocre QB. Ya Gordon didn't win us any games in 2013, but that was because we tried to make him the total center piece in the offense. How well did we do in games where Cameron got an equal amount of looks at Gordon. Much better. How many wins would we have won that season if we had ANYONE who could have ran the ball.
How many more games would we have won last year if Cameron was never injured, or Gordon wasn't a dip shit? We don't have terrible WR, but we also don't have someone who can get open consistently and can draw the focus of a defense. This puts more pressure on our QB. The Patriots don't need great WR's because they can sign guys off the street who can barely separate and Tom can thread them the ball. We don't have anyone at QB who can do that. So then teams focus on stacking to box to stop our run and pressure the QB.
Maybe we do better this year. I think Bowe is someone who will be able to get more separation in the middle of the field than our flock of 5'9 guys can, and I think Hartline is the kind of guy who is going to be a good safety valve to make contested catches. However I still think we need to go after someone and make the long hail mary attempt to get some sort of play maker at WR. I know your not going to find a rookie in rounds 4 or later who is capable of being a #1 WR, but lets take the chance on someone who can push some of these guys down and out of the depth chart. Shit we just spent a 1st round pick on a guy who might just being the #1 backup offensive linemen. We can spend a middle round pick on a WR that can push to be the #3 guy and put someone else out on the street.
Ruining threads since 1897. -
What RR said above !
If you can't control the los, forget trying to get the ball to the wrs.
This has been a problem with the Browns for years. Last year, the blocking
was the real deal, and it showed in the running game. But with Gordon
being a pothead and being gone, not good. That is, until a big injury hit.
Problem fixed with depth, and don't be surprised if Erving starts somewhere on the line, but
if he doesn't, he sure the heck will eventually.
so, they signed a couple of very good wr's knowing that they had to stop the run, increase the pass rush,
fix the depth on the oline, and there was a rush for wr's... and there ya go.
The Browns drafted bigtime difference makers. I don't know that I'd trade a top wr for Erving, or Orchard,
and sure as hell not for Shelton. It is what it is. Farmer, Pettine and co. know full well who they have now
at wr. But man, is that defense going to ROCK.
Even the new rb will be a huge difference maker. At that point, what wr would have made the roster?
And every pick exemplifies the "Play like a Brown" and "good fit for the locker room and community".
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LOL! And that would be who exactly? A stoned out guy who won't come back for the ball anymore to help his QB or the hurt one on the sidelines? JG looked horrible-a shadow of his former self.
He's talking about 2013 when Gordon was the best receiver in the league and we only won 4 games.
Zombo
Zombo said:
He's talking about 2013 when Gordon was the best receiver in the league and we only won 4 games.
Zombo
Thanks for the history lesson Z. Old brain no comprende nada mas. (Mi esposa dice que yo no comprendo nunca)
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I like Ray Farmer but what on earth did he take that night to make that quote? We aren't losing games because of our WR"s? Look I realize it's a team sport but....we had some crucial drops and bad routes run last year. It wasn't all on Hoyer. He might be technically correct that we didn't lose games outright from bad WR play....but a couple of those games "could" have gone differently if our WR's had made some plays that came normally to other wr's around the league. I agree with not reaching for one but FFS we picked up another Jack olb'er in the 2nd round and a RB. Neither of those were really needs. We have 3 jack olb'ers on staff now and only one cover olb, mingo. We needed another olb'er more towards Mingo than Kruger and Bryant. So unless I hear that Armonty's rehab isn't doing so well and maybe that leg is way worse than we were told, I can't see the logic of drafting another 270lb OLB'er. What are we going to do if Mingo gets hurt? Craig Robertson? The white guy who's name escapes me now but likes to sing about fags on Youtube...?? Were there really absolutely no WR prospects in the 2nd round?
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What RR said above !
If you can't control the los, forget trying to get the ball to the wrs.
This has been a problem with the Browns for years. Last year, the blocking
was the real deal, and it showed in the running game. But with Gordon
being a pothead and being gone, not good. That is, until a big injury hit.
Problem fixed with depth, and don't be surprised if Erving starts somewhere on the line, but
if he doesn't, he sure the heck will eventually.
so, they signed a couple of very good wr's knowing that they had to stop the run, increase the pass rush,
fix the depth on the oline, and there was a rush for wr's... and there ya go.
The Browns drafted bigtime difference makers. I don't know that I'd trade a top wr for Erving, or Orchard,
and sure as hell not for Shelton. It is what it is. Farmer, Pettine and co. know full well who they have now
at wr. But man, is that defense going to ROCK.
Even the new rb will be a huge difference maker. At that point, what wr would have made the roster?
And every pick exemplifies the "Play like a Brown" and "good fit for the locker room and community".
What RR said above !
If you can't control the los, forget trying to get the ball to the wrs.
This has been a problem with the Browns for years. Last year, the blocking
was the real deal, and it showed in the running game. But with Gordon
being a pothead and being gone, not good. That is, until a big injury hit.
Problem fixed with depth, and don't be surprised if Erving starts somewhere on the line, but
if he doesn't, he sure the heck will eventually.
so, they signed a couple of very good wr's knowing that they had to stop the run, increase the pass rush,
fix the depth on the oline, and there was a rush for wr's... and there ya go.
The Browns drafted bigtime difference makers. I don't know that I'd trade a top wr for Erving, or Orchard,
and sure as hell not for Shelton. It is what it is. Farmer, Pettine and co. know full well who they have now
at wr. But man, is that defense going to ROCK.
Even the new rb will be a huge difference maker. At that point, what wr would have made the roster?
And every pick exemplifies the "Play like a Brown" and "good fit for the locker room and community".
I think any WR we took in the 3rd had a good shot of taking a spot from one of our current WR's. Plenty of third round WR's in the past two years have done very well in their rookie years and are #1/#2 guys on their respective teams. We don't have a #1 on our roster, and we may have a #2 type guy. But without a legit #1 you are going to want more than an aging WR who might be #2 material and a stable of above average slot WR's. AT some point we need to target a WR who can at the very least push to have someone removed from this roster, someone who can be developed to at least hopefully take over as a #2.
I like Ray Farmer but what on earth did he take that night to make that quote? We aren't losing games because of our WR"s? Look I realize it's a team sport but....we had some crucial drops and bad routes run last year. It wasn't all on Hoyer. He might be technically correct that we didn't lose games outright from bad WR play....but a couple of those games "could" have gone differently if our WR's had made some plays that came normally to other wr's around the league. I agree with not reaching for one but FFS we picked up another Jack olb'er in the 2nd round and a RB. Neither of those were really needs. We have 3 jack olb'ers on staff now and only one cover olb, mingo. We needed another olb'er more towards Mingo than Kruger and Bryant. So unless I hear that Armonty's rehab isn't doing so well and maybe that leg is way worse than we were told, I can't see the logic of drafting another 270lb OLB'er. What are we going to do if Mingo gets hurt? Craig Robertson? The white guy who's name escapes me now but likes to sing about fags on Youtube...?? Were there really absolutely no WR prospects in the 2nd round?
#1: Way to throw around the term fags. Just amazing. #2. One paper we have have a decent amount of rushing OLBers on the roster. How many of them have proven to be 10+ sack guys? We were third in the league last year for fewest sacks and we currently have 1 over paid FA who hasn't lived up to his hype (even though he is a good run stuffer and leader), a 7th overall pick who we turned into a coverage LB, a guy we have used the past two years as a 3-4 DE that is coming off a knee injury, and a UDFA who played lights out in the final game of the season last year. Not to mention we lost Sheard. While he wasn't great, he was still a solid starter. Someone needed to be added to either replace him or push those already on the roster to replace him. We did that.
However I agree with your statement on WR. Looking at how the draft panned out from where we drafted, I guess taking a not taking a WR at 51 was a good idea, cause I didn't really see anyone go that was worth while, but I saw plenty of WR go in the top of the 3rd who would have pushed to be at least the #2 WR on our team this year.
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This FO and the TEAM believes in Josh Gordon, even if some of you do not. I know that they've seen him abstain from weed for seasons, abstain from alcohol the whole season last year only to be suspended an entire year for a technicality. It's bullshit that they are riding his balls so hard. He's a good kid, he's very talented and he's going to be a Cleveland Brown for a long time. I believe in Gordon.
#1- Josh Gordon
#2- Dwayne Bowe/Brian Hartline
#3- Andrew Hawkins
#4- Taylor Gabriel/Travis Benjamin
There really isn't room for another receiver right now. So what Farmer says makes sense. I would have loved to add DGB to this group which I think would have put them over the top but it's whatever, I really like JG, Hawk, Gabe and Benji. Hawk and Gabe can really move. I love the shifty small WRs.
I had us taking Corey Grant in a lot of Mocks just because he's so fast and small(RB), but Farmer did one better by getting Duke Johnson- I love this little pitbull at RB. He's going to be exciting, he reminds me of Jerome Harrison.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
The folks that continuously berate the Browns FO for not selecting a WR either: a) don't know enough about the Browns to offer an opinion, but do so anyway; or
are just stupid / don't know anything about football (e.g. Tony Grossi).For two years in a row now Ray Farmer has "drafted" his wide receivers in free agency - and, for my money, has done a damn fine job of it. Two years ago the Browns wide outs led the league in dropped passes. Last year they were sticky-fingered snatchers, and the only guy I can recall dropping easy balls was Josh Gordon. Sure, there is no All-Pro superstar WR lined up outside for the Browns - but if there were it wouldn't guarantee more wins (see Detroit/Calvin Johnson as another poster fabulously pointed out).
This front office is doing things the right way with regards to making the Browns competitive. Evidence the 7-9 record of first-year coach Pettine last year - the best in recent memory. Unfortunately the process that they are following requires something that Browns fans have very little of...patience.
Hang tough, enjoy the ride up, and disregard any comments about not drafting a wide receiver. In Farmer and Pettine we trust.
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The folks that continuously berate the Browns FO for not selecting a WR either: a) don't know enough about the Browns to offer an opinion, but do so anyway; or
are just stupid / don't know anything about football (e.g. Tony Grossi).For two years in a row now Ray Farmer has "drafted" his wide receivers in free agency - and, for my money, has done a damn fine job of it. Two years ago the Browns wide outs led the league in dropped passes. Last year they were sticky-fingered snatchers, and the only guy I can recall dropping easy balls was Josh Gordon. Sure, there is no All-Pro superstar WR lined up outside for the Browns - but if there were it wouldn't guarantee more wins (see Detroit/Calvin Johnson as another poster fabulously pointed out).
This front office is doing things the right way with regards to making the Browns competitive. Evidence the 7-9 record of first-year coach Pettine last year - the best in recent memory. Unfortunately the process that they are following requires something that Browns fans have very little of...patience.
Hang tough, enjoy the ride up, and disregard any comments about not drafting a wide receiver. In Farmer and Pettine we trust.
The folks that continuously berate the Browns FO for not selecting a WR either: a) don't know enough about the Browns to offer an opinion, but do so anyway; or
are just stupid / don't know anything about football (e.g. Tony Grossi).For two years in a row now Ray Farmer has "drafted" his wide receivers in free agency - and, for my money, has done a damn fine job of it. Two years ago the Browns wide outs led the league in dropped passes. Last year they were sticky-fingered snatchers, and the only guy I can recall dropping easy balls was Josh Gordon. Sure, there is no All-Pro superstar WR lined up outside for the Browns - but if there were it wouldn't guarantee more wins (see Detroit/Calvin Johnson as another poster fabulously pointed out).
This front office is doing things the right way with regards to making the Browns competitive. Evidence the 7-9 record of first-year coach Pettine last year - the best in recent memory. Unfortunately the process that they are following requires something that Browns fans have very little of...patience.
Hang tough, enjoy the ride up, and disregard any comments about not drafting a wide receiver. In Farmer and Pettine we trust.
OH YEAH!
Mike
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This FO and the TEAM believes in Josh Gordon, even if some of you do not. I know that they've seen him abstain from weed for seasons, abstain from alcohol the whole season last year only to be suspended an entire year for a technicality. It's bullshit that they are riding his balls so hard. He's a good kid, he's very talented and he's going to be a Cleveland Brown for a long time. I believe in Gordon.
#1- Josh Gordon
#2- Dwayne Bowe/Brian Hartline
#3- Andrew Hawkins
#4- Taylor Gabriel/Travis Benjamin
There really isn't room for another receiver right now. So what Farmer says makes sense. I would have loved to add DGB to this group which I think would have put them over the top but it's whatever, I really like JG, Hawk, Gabe and Benji. Hawk and Gabe can really move. I love the shifty small WRs.
I had us taking Corey Grant in a lot of Mocks just because he's so fast and small(RB), but Farmer did one better by getting Duke Johnson- I love this little pitbull at RB. He's going to be exciting, he reminds me of Jerome Harrison.
This FO and the TEAM believes in Josh Gordon, even if some of you do not. I know that they've seen him abstain from weed for seasons, abstain from alcohol the whole season last year only to be suspended an entire year for a technicality. It's bullshit that they are riding his balls so hard. He's a good kid, he's very talented and he's going to be a Cleveland Brown for a long time. I believe in Gordon.
#1- Josh Gordon
#2- Dwayne Bowe/Brian Hartline
#3- Andrew Hawkins
#4- Taylor Gabriel/Travis Benjamin
There really isn't room for another receiver right now. So what Farmer says makes sense. I would have loved to add DGB to this group which I think would have put them over the top but it's whatever, I really like JG, Hawk, Gabe and Benji. Hawk and Gabe can really move. I love the shifty small WRs.
I had us taking Corey Grant in a lot of Mocks just because he's so fast and small(RB), but Farmer did one better by getting Duke Johnson- I love this little pitbull at RB. He's going to be exciting, he reminds me of Jerome Harrison.
I doubt you will see him wearing a Browns uniform again.
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Here's 10 years worth of the TOP 2 receivers....so we can all see how they've turned their teams around.....
2006: Santonio Holmes / Chad Jackson
2007: Calvin Johnson / Tedd Ginn
2008: Donnie Avery / Devin Thomas
2009: D. Heyward-Bey/ Michael Crabtree
2010: Demarius Thomas/ Dez Bryant
2011: AJ Green / Julio Jones
2012: Justin Blackmon/ Michael Floyd
2013: Tavon Austin / DeAndre Hopkins
2014: Sammy Watkins/ Mike Evans.
So...there they are.....the last 20 top two receiver picks......total team turner arounders( HA!).....cause all these guys made their teams great!!!!!!!
Looks like the Falcons, Rams, Bucs, Bengals, Bills, Lions, Texans, Cardinals, Cowboys, Jaguars, Raiders, Redskins, Dolphins, Forty Niners and Steelers all know something we dont......
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Good stuff... from several folks starting with RR...
So we can expect a QB today? You say there's a chance?
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Yeah sorry, I didn't mean you in particular, Tourie.
I guess I'd have gone with petty if we were being forced to take a long shot quarterback.What's the rap on Brett Hundley?
(Not yours in particular, just in general)
WSS
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Well your quote mentioned qb so...
WSS
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If your relying on a WR to be what wins you 10 games, then no that is not going to work. But you need someone who can consistently get open to help take the pressure off of your mediocre QB. Ya Gordon didn't win us any games in 2013, but that was because we tried to make him the total center piece in the offense. How well did we do in games where Cameron got an equal amount of looks at Gordon. Much better. How many wins would we have won that season if we had ANYONE who could have ran the ball.
How many more games would we have won last year if Cameron was never injured, or Gordon wasn't a dip shit? We don't have terrible WR, but we also don't have someone who can get open consistently and can draw the focus of a defense. This puts more pressure on our QB. The Patriots don't need great WR's because they can sign guys off the street who can barely separate and Tom can thread them the ball. We don't have anyone at QB who can do that. So then teams focus on stacking to box to stop our run and pressure the QB.
Maybe we do better this year. I think Bowe is someone who will be able to get more separation in the middle of the field than our flock of 5'9 guys can, and I think Hartline is the kind of guy who is going to be a good safety valve to make contested catches. However I still think we need to go after someone and make the long hail mary attempt to get some sort of play maker at WR. I know your not going to find a rookie in rounds 4 or later who is capable of being a #1 WR, but lets take the chance on someone who can push some of these guys down and out of the depth chart. Shit we just spent a 1st round pick on a guy who might just being the #1 backup offensive linemen. We can spend a middle round pick on a WR that can push to be the #3 guy and put someone else out on the street.
If your relying on a WR to be what wins you 10 games, then no that is not going to work. But you need someone who can consistently get open to help take the pressure off of your mediocre QB. Ya Gordon didn't win us any games in 2013, but that was because we tried to make him the total center piece in the offense. How well did we do in games where Cameron got an equal amount of looks at Gordon. Much better. How many wins would we have won that season if we had ANYONE who could have ran the ball.
How many more games would we have won last year if Cameron was never injured, or Gordon wasn't a dip shit? We don't have terrible WR, but we also don't have someone who can get open consistently and can draw the focus of a defense. This puts more pressure on our QB. The Patriots don't need great WR's because they can sign guys off the street who can barely separate and Tom can thread them the ball. We don't have anyone at QB who can do that. So then teams focus on stacking to box to stop our run and pressure the QB.
Maybe we do better this year. I think Bowe is someone who will be able to get more separation in the middle of the field than our flock of 5'9 guys can, and I think Hartline is the kind of guy who is going to be a good safety valve to make contested catches. However I still think we need to go after someone and make the long hail mary attempt to get some sort of play maker at WR. I know your not going to find a rookie in rounds 4 or later who is capable of being a #1 WR, but lets take the chance on someone who can push some of these guys down and out of the depth chart. Shit we just spent a 1st round pick on a guy who might just being the #1 backup offensive linemen. We can spend a middle round pick on a WR that can push to be the #3 guy and put someone else out on the street.
Wow, we got our wish a WR- finally. MHO is Farmer might have taken one in the second, but there was that big run on the position right before we drafted. So he trades down, and then there's a run on LBs. Oh well.
Guess his thinking is if he builds up the o-line enough, you could pull guys off the Muni lot to run the ball, and give JFF enough time to pass, any old slug will eventually break open.
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I'm really high on this draft and would like to express my gratitude to the front office. It blows me away that they snatched Erving from the jaws of the Broncos and Patriots. We have a run stopper and much needed depth. How could anyone feel bad today? They improved in all phases with the draft and free agency. It's going to be a good year and will keep getting better because we finally have a GM and a coach that are on the same page. All those,wasted "Holmgren" years are a thing of the past. The Browns have a bright future.
Our free agents over performed and want to be Browns unlike Davante Parker and Others who were vocal about not wanting to play for us.
Hawkins, Gabriel, Hartline, Bowe and Housler wanted to play for us.
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I'm glad we have quality depth at every position except QB now..
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