In or Out burger
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OK, we have "played" this game before. The following list or people are "borderline" HOF candidates. You simply say if that person should be in or out. This was prompted by the Stabler/Plunkett conversation on another thread.
(Note....I am leaving off some sure fire HOF guys like Ray Lewis/Favre/Moss/Urlacher/Ed Reed/LDT/Kurt Warner..as they are not borderline imo):
Jerry Kramer
LC Greenwood
Kevin Greene
Lester Hayes
Tommy Nobis
Roger Craig
Ken Stabler
Jim Plunkett
Steve Atwater
Neil Smith
Ken Anderson
Leroy Butler
Marvin Harrison
Jim Marshall
Morten Andersen
Tony Boselli
Chris Hinton
Terrelle Davis
London Fletcher
Steve McNair
Edgerinn James
Sterling Sharpe
Henry Ellard
Ed Too Tall Jones
Dick Shafrath
Joe Klecko
Clay Matthews
Cornelius Bennett
Albert Lewis
Steve Tasker
Ben Coates
Hanford Dixon
Rod Smith
Eddie George
Ricky Watters
Ken Easley
Greg Lloyd
Sam Mills
Donovan McNabb
Drew Bledsoe
Randall Cunningham
Boomer Esiason
Jim Hart
Isaac Bruce
Cliff Harris
Bob Keuchenberg
Karl Mecklenberg
Nate Newton
Jim Tyrer
Isaiah Robertson
Charlie Hennigan
Deron Cherry
Terrelle Owens
Ronde Barber
Kevin Mawae
Jason Taylor
Zach Thomas
Alan Faneca
John Hadl
Vinny Testaverde
Lomas Brown
Steve Wisniewski.
Or anyone else you may think of.
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I only see 3 guys that should be in IMO
D. McNabb
T.O.
Marvin Harrison
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OK, we have "played" this game before. The following list or people are "borderline" HOF candidates. You simply say if that person should be in or out. This was prompted by the Stabler/Plunkett conversation on another thread.
(Note....I am leaving off some sure fire HOF guys like Ray Lewis/Favre/Moss/Urlacher/Ed Reed/LDT/Kurt Warner..as they are not borderline imo):
Jerry Kramer
LC Greenwood
Kevin Greene
Lester Hayes
Tommy Nobis
Roger Craig
Ken Stabler
Jim Plunkett
Steve Atwater
Neil Smith
Ken Anderson
Leroy Butler
Marvin Harrison
Jim Marshall
Morten Andersen
Tony Boselli
Chris Hinton
Terrelle Davis
London Fletcher
Steve McNair
Edgerinn James
Sterling Sharpe
Henry Ellard
Ed Too Tall Jones
Dick Shafrath
Joe Klecko
Clay Matthews
Cornelius Bennett
Albert Lewis
Steve Tasker
Ben Coates
Hanford Dixon
Rod Smith
Eddie George
Ricky Watters
Ken Easley
Greg Lloyd
Sam Mills
Donovan McNabb
Drew Bledsoe
Randall Cunningham
Boomer Esiason
Jim Hart
Isaac Bruce
Cliff Harris
Bob Keuchenberg
Karl Mecklenberg
Nate Newton
Jim Tyrer
Isaiah Robertson
Charlie Hennigan
Deron Cherry
Terrelle Owens
Ronde Barber
Kevin Mawae
Jason Taylor
Zach Thomas
Alan Faneca
John Hadl
Vinny Testaverde
Lomas Brown
Steve Wisniewski.
Or anyone else you may think of.
Jerry Kramer
LC Greenwood
Kevin Greene
Lester Hayes
Tommy Nobis
Roger Craig
Ken Stabler
Jim Plunkett
Steve Atwater
Neil Smith
Ken Anderson
Leroy Butler
Marvin Harrison
Jim Marshall
Morten Andersen
Tony Boselli
Chris Hinton
Terrelle Davis
London Fletcher
Steve McNair
Edgerinn James
Sterling Sharpe
Henry Ellard
Ed Too Tall Jones
Dick Shafrath
Joe Klecko
Clay Matthews
Cornelius Bennett
Albert Lewis
Steve Tasker
Ben Coates
Hanford Dixon
Rod Smith
Eddie George
Ricky Watters
Ken Easley
Greg Lloyd
Sam Mills
Donovan McNabb
Drew Bledsoe
Randall Cunningham
Boomer Esiason
Jim Hart
Isaac Bruce
Cliff Harris
Bob Keuchenberg
Karl Mecklenberg
Nate Newton
Jim Tyrer
Isaiah Robertson
Charlie Hennigan
Deron Cherry
Terrelle Owens
Ronde Barber
Kevin Mawae
Jason Taylor
Zach Thomas
Alan Faneca
John Hadl
Vinny Testaverde
Lomas Brown
Steve Wisniewski.
Or anyone else you may think of.
My HOF picks are in green
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Per the PFR career production average the 25 players that have had the most productive careers to date that are not in the HOF include the following (both inactive and active, eligible and non eligible):
Peyton Manning
Brett Favre
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Ray Lewis
Ladanian Tomlinson
Marvin Harrison
Randy Moss
Jeff Saturday
Ken Anderson
Julius Peppers
Brian Urlacher
Terrelle Owens
Reggie Wayne
Phillip Rivers
Ed Reed
Edgerrin James
Donovan McNabb
Randall Cunningham
Ronde Barber
Champ Bailey
Kevin Mawae
Jason Taylor
Zach Thomas
Alan Faneca.
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a lot of really really good players but only one name jumps out at me in name is mecklenberg and believe me i LOATHE the broncos.
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OK, we have "played" this game before. The following list or people are "borderline" HOF candidates. You simply say if that person should be in or out. This was prompted by the Stabler/Plunkett conversation on another thread.
(Note....I am leaving off some sure fire HOF guys like Ray Lewis/Favre/Moss/Urlacher/Ed Reed/LDT/Kurt Warner..as they are not borderline imo):
Jerry Kramer
LC Greenwood
Kevin Greene
Lester Hayes
Tommy Nobis
Roger Craig
Ken Stabler
Jim Plunkett
Steve Atwater
Neil Smith
Ken Anderson
Leroy Butler
Marvin Harrison
Jim Marshall
Morten Andersen
Tony Boselli
Chris Hinton
Terrelle Davis
London Fletcher
Steve McNair
Edgerinn James
Sterling Sharpe
Henry Ellard
Ed Too Tall Jones
Dick Shafrath
Joe Klecko
Clay Matthews
Cornelius Bennett
Albert Lewis
Steve Tasker
Ben Coates
Hanford Dixon
Rod Smith
Eddie George
Ricky Watters
Ken Easley
Greg Lloyd
Sam Mills
Donovan McNabb
Drew Bledsoe
Randall Cunningham
Boomer Esiason
Jim Hart
Isaac Bruce
Cliff Harris
Bob Keuchenberg
Karl Mecklenberg
Nate Newton
Jim Tyrer
Isaiah Robertson
Charlie Hennigan
Deron Cherry
Terrelle Owens
Ronde Barber
Kevin Mawae
Jason Taylor
Zach Thomas
Alan Faneca
John Hadl
Vinny Testaverde
Lomas Brown
Steve Wisniewski.
Or anyone else you may think of.
OK, we have "played" this game before. The following list or people are "borderline" HOF candidates. You simply say if that person should be in or out. This was prompted by the Stabler/Plunkett conversation on another thread.
(Note....I am leaving off some sure fire HOF guys like Ray Lewis/Favre/Moss/Urlacher/Ed Reed/LDT/Kurt Warner..as they are not borderline imo):
Here are my personal choices from this list:
Jerry Kramer
LC Greenwood
Kevin Greene
Lester Hayes
Tommy Nobis
Roger Craig
Ken Stabler
Jim Plunkett
Steve Atwater
Neil Smith
Ken Anderson
Leroy Butler
Marvin Harrison
Jim Marshall
Morten Andersen
Tony Boselli
Chris Hinton
Terrelle Davis
London Fletcher
Steve McNair
Edgerinn James
Sterling Sharpe
Henry Ellard
Ed Too Tall Jones
Dick Shafrath
Joe Klecko
Clay Matthews
Cornelius Bennett
Albert Lewis
Steve Tasker
Ben Coates
Hanford Dixon
Rod Smith
Eddie George
Ricky Watters
Ken Easley
Greg Lloyd
Sam Mills
Donovan McNabb
Drew Bledsoe
Randall Cunningham
Boomer Esiason
Jim Hart
Isaac Bruce
Cliff Harris
Bob Keuchenberg
Karl Mecklenberg
Nate Newton
Jim Tyrer (he has all the creds, but will never make it due to his murder/suicide of his wife and himself)
Isaiah Robertson
Charlie Hennigan
Deron Cherry
Terrelle Owens
Ronde Barber
Kevin Mawae
Jason Taylor
Zach Thomas
Alan Faneca
John Hadl
Vinny Testaverde
Lomas Brown
Steve Wisniewski.
yes, there are a few homer choices, like Shafrath and Matthews, and former fellow Zip Taylor.
Or anyone else you may think of.
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Per the PFR career production average the 25 players that have had the most productive careers to date that are not in the HOF include the following (both inactive and active, eligible and non eligible):
Peyton Manning
Brett Favre
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Ray Lewis
Ladanian Tomlinson
Marvin Harrison
Randy Moss
Jeff Saturday
Ken Anderson
Julius Peppers
Brian Urlacher
Terrelle Owens
Reggie Wayne
Phillip Rivers
Ed Reed
Edgerrin James
Donovan McNabb
Randall Cunningham
Ronde Barber
Champ Bailey
Kevin Mawae
Jason Taylor
Zach Thomas
Alan Faneca.
Per the PFR career production average the 25 players that have had the most productive careers to date that are not in the HOF include the following (both inactive and active, eligible and non eligible):
Peyton Manning
Brett Favre
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Ray Lewis
Ladanian Tomlinson
Marvin Harrison
Randy Moss
Jeff Saturday
Ken Anderson
Julius Peppers
Brian Urlacher
Terrelle Owens
Reggie Wayne
Phillip Rivers
Ed Reed
Edgerrin James
Donovan McNabb
Randall Cunningham
Ronde Barber
Champ Bailey
Kevin Mawae
Jason Taylor
Zach Thomas
Alan Faneca.
highlighted are my choices from this list....the others are borderline.
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Jerry Kramer
LC Greenwood
Kevin Greene
Lester Hayes
Tommy Nobis
Roger Craig
Ken Stabler
Jim Plunkett
Steve Atwater
Neil Smith
Ken Anderson
Leroy Butler
Marvin Harrison
Jim Marshall
Morten Andersen
Tony Boselli
Chris Hinton
Terrelle Davis
London Fletcher
Steve McNair
Edgerinn James
Sterling Sharpe
Henry Ellard
Ed Too Tall Jones
Dick Shafrath
Joe Klecko
Clay Matthews
Cornelius Bennett
Albert Lewis
Steve Tasker
Ben Coates
Hanford Dixon
Rod Smith
Eddie George
Ricky Watters
Ken Easley
Greg Lloyd
Sam Mills
Donovan McNabb
Drew Bledsoe
Randall Cunningham
Boomer Esiason
Jim Hart
Isaac Bruce
Cliff Harris
Bob Keuchenberg
Karl Mecklenberg
Nate Newton
Jim Tyrer
Isaiah Robertson
Charlie Hennigan
Deron Cherry
Terrelle Owens
Ronde Barber
Kevin Mawae
Jason Taylor
Zach Thomas
Alan Faneca
John Hadl
Vinny Testaverde
Lomas Brown
Steve Wisniewski.
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Wish In and Out Burger would have a franchise in the Cleveland area......
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I will add Nobis, Atwater and Tasker (as a pure ST player) to my list.
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They can all stay out. My philosophy on any Hall of Fame is that it should be reserved for the best of the best. If that philosophy is not applied you end up with the Baseball Hall of Fame.
While many of these players were outstanding I wouldn't go so far as to claim that any of them were the obvious best of their era.
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OK, we have "played" this game before. The following list or people are "borderline" HOF candidates. You simply say if that person should be in or out. This was prompted by the Stabler/Plunkett conversation on another thread.
(Note....I am leaving off some sure fire HOF guys like Ray Lewis/Favre/Moss/Urlacher/Ed Reed/LDT/Kurt Warner..as they are not borderline imo):
Jerry Kramer
LC Greenwood
Kevin Greene
Lester Hayes
Tommy Nobis
Roger Craig
Ken Stabler
Jim Plunkett
Steve Atwater
Neil Smith
Ken Anderson
Leroy Butler
Marvin Harrison
Jim Marshall
Morten Andersen
Tony Boselli
Chris Hinton
Terrelle Davis
London Fletcher
Steve McNair
Edgerinn James
Sterling Sharpe
Henry Ellard
Ed Too Tall Jones
Dick Shafrath
Joe Klecko
Clay Matthews
Cornelius Bennett
Albert Lewis
Steve Tasker
Ben Coates
Hanford Dixon
Rod Smith
Eddie George
Ricky Watters
Ken Easley
Greg Lloyd
Sam Mills
Donovan McNabb
Drew Bledsoe
Randall Cunningham
Boomer Esiason
Jim Hart
Isaac Bruce
Cliff Harris
Bob Keuchenberg
Karl Mecklenberg
Nate Newton
Jim Tyrer
Isaiah Robertson
Charlie Hennigan
Deron Cherry
Terrelle Owens
Ronde Barber
Kevin Mawae
Jason Taylor
Zach Thomas
Alan Faneca
John Hadl
Vinny Testaverde
Lomas Brown
Steve Wisniewski.
Or anyone else you may think of.
Jerry Kramer yes
LC Greenwood no
Kevin Greene no
Lester Hayes yes
Tommy Nobis no
Roger Craig no
Ken Stabler yes
Jim Plunkett yes
Steve Atwater yes
Neil Smith no
Ken Anderson no
Leroy Butler no
Marvin Harrison yes
Jim Marshall no
Morten Andersen yes
Tony Boselli no
Chris Hinton no
Terrelle Davis Hell no
London Fletcher no
Steve McNair no
Edgerinn James yes
Sterling Sharpe no
Henry Ellard no
Ed Too Tall Jones no
Dick Shafrath yes
Joe Klecko no
Clay Matthews yes
Cornelius Bennett yes
Albert Lewis no
Steve Tasker hell no
Ben Coates maybe
Hanford Dixon yes
Rod Smith no
Eddie George no
Ricky Watters no
Ken Easley maybe
Greg Lloyd no
Sam Mills no
Donovan McNabb no, he's a choke artist when it counted
Drew Bledsoe maybe
Randall Cunningham fuck no!
Boomer Esiason NO!
Jim Hart no
Isaac Bruce maybe
Cliff Harris no
Bob Keuchenberg no
Karl Mecklenberg yes
Nate Newton yes
Jim Tyrer no
Isaiah Robertson no
Charlie Hennigan no
Deron Cherry yes
Terrelle Owens no,hes a dumb asshole.
Ronde Barber no
Kevin Mawae maybe
Jason Taylor no
Zach Thomas yes
Alan Faneca yes
John Hadl no
Vinny Testaverde Hell fucking NO!
Lomas Brown yes
Steve Wisniewski. yes
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They can all stay out. My philosophy on any Hall of Fame is that it should be reserved for the best of the best. If that philosophy is not applied you end up with the Baseball Hall of Fame.
While many of these players were outstanding I wouldn't go so far as to claim that any of them were the obvious best of their era.
They can all stay out. My philosophy on any Hall of Fame is that it should be reserved for the best of the best. If that philosophy is not applied you end up with the Baseball Hall of Fame.
While many of these players were outstanding I wouldn't go so far as to claim that any of them were the obvious best of their era.
Except that a few of them very well may be the best of the best.
Take Jim Marshall......he is ranked by Career average as the 26th best player of all time. ONLY Reggie White, Bruce Smith, and running mates Carl Eller and Alan Page rank out as better defensive linemen than him. And that is part of his problem....the HOF really doesn't want to put a third member of those Purple People eaters in the HOF....even though it seems he deserves it.
Marshall ranks out higher than the likes of Merlin Olsen, Michael Strahan, Chris Doleman, Randy White, Warren Sapp, Jack Youngblood, Joe Greene, Dan Hampton, Richard Dent and others that are in the HOF
And I know Zombo doesn't want to hear this.....but also: Ken Anderson. He is ranked as the 31st most productive player of all time, and the 12th best QB of all time. He didn't win a Super Bowl, but then neither did the likes of Dan Fouts, Warren Moon, Dan Marino, Tarkenton. His career average ranks better than the likes of Bob Griese, Len Dawson, Sonny Jurgenson, Jim Kelly...and others.
And there may be a few others...but those are two that come to mind.
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Wish In and Out Burger would have a franchise in the Cleveland area......
Wish In and Out Burger would have a franchise in the Cleveland area......
Overrated. We just got one in Austin (the overrated food capital of the world). You can have it.
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I can't believe the number of people that breezed over Alan Faneca. He was one of the best guards in the game. He's going to get in at some point.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Wish In and Out Burger would have a franchise in the Cleveland area......
Overrated. We just got one in Austin (the overrated food capital of the world). You can have it.
Overrated. We just got one in Austin (the overrated food capital of the world). You can have it.
Comparing them to other fast food burgers NOT overrated. Comparing to best burgers you've ever eaten, yes overrated.
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I must have adult onset ADD or something because all I did in this thread was look to see if people remembered how many years of excellent football Clay Matthews contributed with a flexibility to play any of 4 LBer positions here. At a banquet I once attended where Joe Delamielleure was the guest speaker - he said Clay Matthews was not only our toughest LBer but one of the toughest SOBs he's ever had to block in a career full of Pro Bowls.
When you really think about it - that first round of 1978 with Ozzie and Clay helped set up a lot of playoff appearances for this franchise throughout the 80s for a team that's only won about 1 playoff game since they retired. Think about that.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I can't believe the number of people that breezed over Alan Faneca. He was one of the best guards in the game. He's going to get in at some point.
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I must have adult onset ADD or something because all I did in this thread was look to see if people remembered how many years of excellent football Clay Matthews contributed with a flexibility to play any of 4 LBer positions here. At a banquet I once attended where Joe Delamielleure was the guest speaker - he said Clay Matthews was not only our toughest LBer but one of the toughest SOBs he's ever had to block in a career full of Pro Bowls.
When you really think about it - that first round of 1978 with Ozzie and Clay helped set up a lot of playoff appearances for this franchise throughout the 80s for a team that's only won about 1 playoff game since they retired. Think about that.
I must have adult onset ADD or something because all I did in this thread was look to see if people remembered how many years of excellent football Clay Matthews contributed with a flexibility to play any of 4 LBer positions here. At a banquet I once attended where Joe Delamielleure was the guest speaker - he said Clay Matthews was not only our toughest LBer but one of the toughest SOBs he's ever had to block in a career full of Pro Bowls.
When you really think about it - that first round of 1978 with Ozzie and Clay helped set up a lot of playoff appearances for this franchise throughout the 80s for a team that's only won about 1 playoff game since they retired. Think about that.
Honestly.....winning was the issue. Had the Browns won a couple of SBs, he would likely be in.
But he also came into the league about the same time as Lawrence Taylor, Singletary and a few others, so he gets overlooked.
And while his sack numbers weren't bad....they weren't as good as some others....expecially some DEs of the era. Making a splash with sacks got others noticed more.
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I must have adult onset ADD or something because all I did in this thread was look to see if people remembered how many years of excellent football Clay Matthews contributed with a flexibility to play any of 4 LBer positions here. At a banquet I once attended where Joe Delamielleure was the guest speaker - he said Clay Matthews was not only our toughest LBer but one of the toughest SOBs he's ever had to block in a career full of Pro Bowls.
When you really think about it - that first round of 1978 with Ozzie and Clay helped set up a lot of playoff appearances for this franchise throughout the 80s for a team that's only won about 1 playoff game since they retired. Think about that.
Honestly.....winning was the issue. Had the Browns won a couple of SBs, he would likely be in.
But he also came into the league about the same time as Lawrence Taylor, Singletary and a few others, so he gets overlooked.
And while his sack numbers weren't bad....they weren't as good as some others....expecially some DEs of the era. Making a splash with sacks got others noticed more.
Honestly.....winning was the issue. Had the Browns won a couple of SBs, he would likely be in.
But he also came into the league about the same time as Lawrence Taylor, Singletary and a few others, so he gets overlooked.
And while his sack numbers weren't bad....they weren't as good as some others....expecially some DEs of the era. Making a splash with sacks got others noticed more.
I'm afraid you're right Gipper about how much they weigh HOF candidates appearing in Superbowls (outside of a few exceptions). That sucks.
Here's the thing, Cleveland was pretty awful in significant parts of the 70s before they drafted Matthews and Newsome. That was a day and age teams didn't go from worst to first overnight. I can say without hesitation my golden years as a fan was in 80s. We made the playoffs 7 times. From 1990 to 2014, Cleveland only made the playoffs twice.
After drafting Matthews & Newsome in the 1st round of 1978 - here's our records up through 1989:
1978 8-8
1979 9-7
1980 11-5 (playoffs 0-1)
1981 5-11
1982 4-5 (playoffs 0-1)
1983 9-7
1984 5-11
1985 8-8 (playoffs 0-1)
1986 12-4 (playoffs 1-1) AFC Championship Game
1987 10-5 (playoffs 1-1) AFC Championship Game
1988 10-6 (playoffs 0-1)
1989 9-6-1 (playoffs 1-1) AFC Championship Game
As Joe Delamielleure said, Clay played all 4 different LBer positions extremely well. That shouldn't have worked against him the way that it did. Classic Clay Matthews was intercepting Jim Kelly at the goal to seal a playoff win; and get Cleveland to their 3rd AFC Championship Game in 4 years. If we asked Matthews to be what we drafted Chip Banks for - all we gotta do gotta do is see what one of his polliwogs ended up doing for Green Bay in that role. That's okay though. What set Clay apart to me was his 1st step instinct and pre-snap diagnosis. That was invaluable against the point of attack and covering the hook zones or flats. A franchise that never makes the playoffs, made them 7 times with 3 AFC Championship appearances in the 80s leaning heavily on the talent and leadership of Matthews and Newsome. That type/length of spike should have been acknowledged better especially considering we've only made the playoffs twice from 1990-2014.
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