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Power 5 realignment

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  • MLD Woody MLD WoodyM Dedicated Conversation Starter Very Popular First Post Collaborator Posting Machine Reacting Well One Month Later One Year In Week One Done
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    MLD WoodyM MLD Woody wrote on last edited by
    #15

    Right Gipper. I want to make Chicago a power again.

    Though NW may not be too happy about it...

    Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody!
    The GipperT 1 Reply Last reply
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    • MLD WoodyM MLD Woody

      Right Gipper. I want to make Chicago a power again.

      Though NW may not be too happy about it...

      The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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      The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
      #16

      @mld-woody said:

      Right Gipper. I want to make Chicago a power again.

      Though NW may not be too happy about it...

      Yea, that won't happen. UC has no interest in having that happen.

      If a team were to be "elevated" in the strength of its program from the Big Ten country, it would have to probably come from the likes of Ohio U, Indiana St., Illinois St. or the like.

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      • MLD Woody MLD WoodyM Dedicated Conversation Starter Very Popular First Post Collaborator Posting Machine Reacting Well One Month Later One Year In Week One Done
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        MLD WoodyM MLD Woody wrote on last edited by
        #17

        Cincy!

        Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody!
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        • The GipperT The Gipper

          @wargograw said:

          So of the teams that are now in P5 conferences, the following get left out:

          Baylor, Iowa State, TCU. It would be hard to shut Baylor out because they've made big strides as a program that will last long term (new beautiful stadium first and foremost), but they may be too close geographically (no new market) to A&M and UT to be taken instead of Texas Tech in the PAC. TCU has been good under Patterson but aside from that there aren't many compelling reasons to include them in the field of 64. Stadium is abysmally small. They play some games with literally 15,000 people there. Very weak fan base and no command of the DFW TV market.

          Well, I was going for expansion rather than contraction. As for "tiers" the NCAA doesn't recognize tiers among the schools I have mentioned...though we know they exist. (yes, some of those MWC schools may be tantamount to MAC level schools....but unlike MAC schools, those schools are the top level in their states).

          As for TCU....the fact is they have been the most competitive school in Texas the last decade...., so I see no more compelling reason than that to include them....and there are stadiums in Dallas that they can play in if need be....including the Jerry Dome.

          wargograw W One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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          W wargograw wrote on last edited by
          #18

          @the-gipper said:

          Well, I was going for expansion rather than contraction. As for "tiers" the NCAA doesn't recognize tiers among the schools I have mentioned...though we know they exist. (yes, some of those MWC schools may be tantamount to MAC level schools....but unlike MAC schools, those schools are the top level in their states).

          As for TCU....the fact is they have been the most competitive school in Texas the last decade...., so I see no more compelling reason than that to include them....and there are stadiums in Dallas that they can play in if need be....including the Jerry Dome.

          They don't need to play there. No one goes to their games.

          The GipperT 1 Reply Last reply
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          • MLD WoodyM MLD Woody

            I've never heard of being a Land Grant university as one of the determining factors for adding a school to the B1G. Not that it is incorrect, I've just never heard that. Competitiveness, TV Market, location, culture, academics, etc... Yeah. But not land grant.

            That got me interested so I did some quick googling (mainly wondering why Michigan and the other three weren't). It looks like these were based off of legislation from 1862. Those four universities were founded earlier than that. Michigan was all of the way back in 1817. I imagine this is why Michigan, Indiana, etc aren't Land Grant Universities.

            The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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            The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
            #19

            @mld-woody said:

            I've never heard of being a Land Grant university as one of the determining factors for adding a school to the B1G. Not that it is incorrect, I've just never heard that. Competitiveness, TV Market, location, culture, academics, etc... Yeah. But not land grant.

            That got me interested so I did some quick googling (mainly wondering why Michigan and the other three weren't). It looks like these were based off of legislation from 1862. Those four universities were founded earlier than that. Michigan was all of the way back in 1817. I imagine this is why Michigan, Indiana, etc aren't Land Grant Universities.

            I don't know if "Land grant" status is...or would be a major criteria now.....but it may be a minor one. But in the past I am pretty sure it was a big issue. Perhaps Mich/Iowa/Indiana were private at one time before becoming public.....here is what I found:

            Indiana was founded as a state seminary in 1820. Name changed from Indiana State Seminary to Indiana college in 1828. 1838 became Indiana University.

            Iowa was founded as Iowa University in 1847....but before the Land Grant statute.

            Michigan was founded in 1817 as the Catholepistemiad, or The University of Michigania....in Detroit. It moved to Ann Arbor in 1837.

            Northwestern was founded in 1851 supposedly to serve "the Northwest Territory"....except the "Northwest Territory ceased to exist before the school was founded. All the states that made up the Northwest Territory except one: Minnesota, were admitted to the union some long before the school was founded: Ohio 1803, Indiana 1816, Illinois 1818, Michign 1837, Iowa 1846, Wisconsin 1848, Minnesota 1858. So, the name doesn't make sense. But it was founded as a private school...and remains so.

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            • MLD Woody MLD WoodyM Dedicated Conversation Starter Very Popular First Post Collaborator Posting Machine Reacting Well One Month Later One Year In Week One Done
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              MLD WoodyM MLD Woody wrote on last edited by
              #20

              Basically, the 4 schools that aren't land grant came to be before land grant universities were a thing

              Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody!
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              • W wargograw

                @the-gipper said:

                Well, I was going for expansion rather than contraction. As for "tiers" the NCAA doesn't recognize tiers among the schools I have mentioned...though we know they exist. (yes, some of those MWC schools may be tantamount to MAC level schools....but unlike MAC schools, those schools are the top level in their states).

                As for TCU....the fact is they have been the most competitive school in Texas the last decade...., so I see no more compelling reason than that to include them....and there are stadiums in Dallas that they can play in if need be....including the Jerry Dome.

                They don't need to play there. No one goes to their games.

                The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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                The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by The Gipper
                #21

                @wargograw said:

                They don't need to play there. No one goes to their games.

                Well, I don't know. They have been putting on the best show and winning the most games in Texas for like a decade now. In 2008 they finished #7 nationally, 2009 #6, 2010 #2, 2014 #3.

                And , I see that they have expanded their stadium from like 32,000 to about 45,000 in just the last few years. They put in 164 million in renovation to it.

                Here were the attendance figures for all Texas schools for 2013:

                Here’s how the area teams break down. [Number of home games / Total attendance at home games / average]....and 2014 next to it:

                1. Texas – 6 / 593,897 / 98,976....94,103

                2. Texas A&M – 8 / 697,003 / 87,125...105,123

                3. Oklahoma – 6 / 508,334 / 84,722

                4. Texas Tech – 6 / 347,597 / 57,933...58,935

                5. Baylor – 7 / 321,639 / 45,948...46,710

                6. TCU – 6 / 261,587 / 43,598...44,719

                7. UNT – 6 / 126,182 / 21,030

                8. SMU – 6 / 112,347 / 18,725....21,528

                9. Houston..............................28,311

                It seems that 44,719 is pretty good. I wouldn't say that is nobody.

                And TCU is right in the heart of Cowboys country...so naturally there is more of an affinity around there to attend Cowboys games than college football. Plus SMU is nearby.

                There are no Pro teams down around the area where Texas and A&M play. That could be a bit of a factor.

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                • wargograw W One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                  W wargograw wrote on last edited by wargograw
                  #22

                  First, stop citing results in a discussion about attendance. Second, if If they're actually getting 44K then fine, that's adequate, but they're not. Name another P5 team that would do this for a CONFERENCE game, ESPECIALLY with all the success they've had:

                  80r7O5K.jpg

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                  • The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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                    The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
                    #23

                    Its halftime, its Texas. Everybody's gone for a beer. Nothing unusual about that look.

                    Show me a photo in the middle of the 4th quarter where it is 10-10.

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                    • wargograw W One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                      W wargograw wrote on last edited by
                      #24

                      They don't sell beer at the games. Stadium food/drinks are very unpopular down here since they're terrible and you can load up at the tailgate. I'll see if I can find the game on YouTube and take a screenshot later in the game.

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                      • gftChris gftChrisG
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                        gftChrisG gftChris wrote on last edited by
                        #25

                        If it helps, I think this is that game

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                        • wargograw W One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                          W wargograw wrote on last edited by
                          #26

                          Yeah I have a bunch of awesome 4th quarter, 7-point game, screenshots of the teams on the sideline and the front 3 rows that they're showing are all virtually empty. I don't know why Patterson shows the school so much loyalty when they're clearly not reciprocating it. He would be the best hire any school could make, yet no one's been able to.

                          Then again some guys just do better at the smaller schools. A big chunk of big time coaching is egos management. No one knows whether Patterson is worth a darn or not in that department.

                          gftChrisG 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • W wargograw

                            Yeah I have a bunch of awesome 4th quarter, 7-point game, screenshots of the teams on the sideline and the front 3 rows that they're showing are all virtually empty. I don't know why Patterson shows the school so much loyalty when they're clearly not reciprocating it. He would be the best hire any school could make, yet no one's been able to.

                            Then again some guys just do better at the smaller schools. A big chunk of big time coaching is egos management. No one knows whether Patterson is worth a darn or not in that department.

                            gftChris gftChrisG
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                            gftChrisG gftChris wrote on last edited by
                            #27

                            @wargograw said:

                            Yeah I have a bunch of awesome 4th quarter, 7-point game, screenshots of the teams on the sideline and the front 3 rows that they're showing are all virtually empty. I don't know why Patterson shows the school so much loyalty when they're clearly not reciprocating it. He would be the best hire any school could make, yet no one's been able to.

                            Then again some guys just do better at the smaller schools. A big chunk of big time coaching is egos management. No one knows whether Patterson is worth a darn or not in that department.

                            See: Saban, Nick.

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                            • wargograw W One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                              W wargograw wrote on last edited by
                              #28

                              Very, very good at it.

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                              • The GipperT The Gipper

                                Additional note: East Carolina average attendance for the last 5 years fluctuated between 45-50K

                                NC State averages about 53K

                                NC's average was 51,500

                                Wake about 28,000

                                Duke about 26,000.

                                So, attendance/competitive wise, ECU is NOT the weak sister in that state of FBS programs, not at all.

                                ballpeen ballpeenB Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                                ballpeenB ballpeen wrote on last edited by
                                #29

                                @the-gipper said:

                                Additional note: East Carolina average attendance for the last 5 years fluctuated between 45-50K

                                NC State averages about 53K

                                NC's average was 51,500

                                Wake about 28,000

                                Duke about 26,000.

                                So, attendance/competitive wise, ECU is NOT the weak sister in that state of FBS programs, not at all.

                                I like the idea of ECU in the SEC. They are almost the bully of the state as it is.....give them the ability to recruit kids as a SEC school, ECU would own the recruiting in North Carolina and bully up real quick..

                                If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
                                The GipperT 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • ballpeenB ballpeen

                                  @the-gipper said:

                                  Additional note: East Carolina average attendance for the last 5 years fluctuated between 45-50K

                                  NC State averages about 53K

                                  NC's average was 51,500

                                  Wake about 28,000

                                  Duke about 26,000.

                                  So, attendance/competitive wise, ECU is NOT the weak sister in that state of FBS programs, not at all.

                                  I like the idea of ECU in the SEC. They are almost the bully of the state as it is.....give them the ability to recruit kids as a SEC school, ECU would own the recruiting in North Carolina and bully up real quick..

                                  The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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                                  The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
                                  #30

                                  @ballpeen said:

                                  I like the idea of ECU in the SEC. They are almost the bully of the state as it is.....give them the ability to recruit kids as a SEC school, ECU would own the recruiting in North Carolina and bully up real quick..

                                  I don't know if ECU plays NC, NS St., Duke, Wake....but if they do I suggest they do very well against them. My idea is for the SEC to expand into NC....but not take away any of the current NC schools away from the ACC. ECU could be a fit.

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                                  • wargograw W One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                                    W wargograw wrote on last edited by
                                    #31

                                    They will pick one off from the ACC.

                                    The GipperT 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • W wargograw

                                      They will pick one off from the ACC.

                                      The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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                                      The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
                                      #32

                                      @wargograw said:

                                      They will pick one off from the ACC.

                                      Why? You already said that Fla. would veto FSU. That SC would veto Clemson.

                                      I think the only one that might make the jump is NC St. How about you? They may not like playing third fiddle to Duke/NC...in basketball at least. I don't think NC St. feels the same about their role in football versus those other two.

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                                      • wargograw W One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                                        W wargograw wrote on last edited by
                                        #33

                                        Right. Won't be FSU or Clemson. One of the NC schools and/or one of the Virginia schools.

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                                        • W wargograw

                                          Right. Won't be FSU or Clemson. One of the NC schools and/or one of the Virginia schools.

                                          The Gipper The GipperT In Memoriam Very Popular
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                                          The GipperT The Gipper wrote on last edited by
                                          #34

                                          @wargograw said:

                                          Right. Won't be FSU or Clemson. One of the NC schools and/or one of the Virginia schools.

                                          I doubt it would be Virginia....but it could be Va A&M (Tech). They have kind of actually moved all over. From the Southern to the Big East to the ACC they have been somewhat nomadic. If they saw more prestige and more money, sure, they might jump.

                                          (but...as noted, the ACC dominated the SEC this past year.....so it could be argued that they would be making a lateral move at best in terms of overall football competition)

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