Browns trade for Pro-bowl punter
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I believe McCown is underrated, and will be a terrific surprise this season.. They are saying he can still "spin it"...
which Hoyer just couldn't do anymore.
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I bet McCown out plays Hoyer, and if he can, we should be in good shape............. As long as we can consistently stop the run, and then get off the field on 3rd down that is. If we don't do both of those things well, it's going to be a frustrating year.
I just don't see McCown being worse than Brian.
I bet McCown out plays Hoyer, and if he can, we should be in good shape............. As long as we can consistently stop the run, and then get off the field on 3rd down that is. If we don't do both of those things well, it's going to be a frustrating year.
I just don't see McCown being worse than Brian.
I don't see him being worse than Hoyer, but I also don't see him being much better, either. As a matter of fact, I feel like they'll be just about the same, when all is said and done.
If I had to throw some stats on it, I'd go for a season like:
238 completions - 408 attempts | 58.3% | 2,703 yds. | 15 TD | 14 INT | 76.2 Rating
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Can Mccown do what he is being called on doing being a game manager? I think he can. He will have one of the best O lines in the league which is a huge boost to any qb. He will have some good running backs. If the Browns establish a running game it will open everything else up. We are counting on ball control and conrolling the time of possession. Too many 3 and outs and no matter how good our defense is they will get worn down. If Lee's punting can pin opposing team's offenses in bad field position that is only going to benefit our defense. If other teams try stacking the line to stop our run game and force us to throw I think this team with McCown has the ability to make them pay for it. It is not like we won't have any passing game.
The faith that I have is moreso in our offensive line, runningbacks and offensive coordinator. I think McCown can have a season somewhere between what we saw in Chicago and what we saw in Tampa, but I don't expect even lower-level greatness out of him. I expect a very similar performance to what we saw from Hoyer, although McCown will be working to groom Manziel more than Hoyer ever did...and that's where his benefit lies.
People like to credit our offensive line and say "why can't McCown have a Chicago-like season?"
The answer - we don't have Forte, Alshon, Marshall and Bennett.
We may have equivalent talent in Johnson, Mayle and Housler, but that's top level homerism at it's finest. I expect Housler to surprise, I expect Mayle to develop into a receiver akin to what Greg Little could have been, and I think Johnson has the ability to become a very dynamic receiving back ( a la Forte). But I don't expect that this year.
The faith that I have is moreso in our offensive line, runningbacks and offensive coordinator. I think McCown can have a season somewhere between what we saw in Chicago and what we saw in Tampa, but I don't expect even lower-level greatness out of him. I expect a very similar performance to what we saw from Hoyer, although McCown will be working to groom Manziel more than Hoyer ever did...and that's where his benefit lies.
People like to credit our offensive line and say "why can't McCown have a Chicago-like season?"
The answer - we don't have Forte, Alshon, Marshall and Bennett.
We may have equivalent talent in Johnson, Mayle and Housler, but that's top level homerism at it's finest. I expect Housler to surprise, I expect Mayle to develop into a receiver akin to what Greg Little could have been, and I think Johnson has the ability to become a very dynamic receiving back ( a la Forte). But I don't expect that this year.
Ha. Know how I know you're an SC fan? "Last name, Alshon, last name, last name."
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The faith that I have is moreso in our offensive line, runningbacks and offensive coordinator. I think McCown can have a season somewhere between what we saw in Chicago and what we saw in Tampa, but I don't expect even lower-level greatness out of him. I expect a very similar performance to what we saw from Hoyer, although McCown will be working to groom Manziel more than Hoyer ever did...and that's where his benefit lies.
People like to credit our offensive line and say "why can't McCown have a Chicago-like season?"
The answer - we don't have Forte, Alshon, Marshall and Bennett.
We may have equivalent talent in Johnson, Mayle and Housler, but that's top level homerism at it's finest. I expect Housler to surprise, I expect Mayle to develop into a receiver akin to what Greg Little could have been, and I think Johnson has the ability to become a very dynamic receiving back ( a la Forte). But I don't expect that this year.
Ha. Know how I know you're an SC fan? "Last name, Alshon, last name, last name."
Ha. Know how I know you're an SC fan? "Last name, Alshon, last name, last name."
Good eye!
It's become so ingrained in me that I didn't even realize I was doing it. Not necessarily a S.Car fan per se, I'm still a Buckeye fan through and through...but all of my friends are alums, so I've become partial to S.Car over Clemson.
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The faith that I have is moreso in our offensive line, runningbacks and offensive coordinator. I think McCown can have a season somewhere between what we saw in Chicago and what we saw in Tampa, but I don't expect even lower-level greatness out of him. I expect a very similar performance to what we saw from Hoyer, although McCown will be working to groom Manziel more than Hoyer ever did...and that's where his benefit lies.
People like to credit our offensive line and say "why can't McCown have a Chicago-like season?"
The answer - we don't have Forte, Alshon, Marshall and Bennett.
We may have equivalent talent in Johnson, Mayle and Housler, but that's top level homerism at it's finest. I expect Housler to surprise, I expect Mayle to develop into a receiver akin to what Greg Little could have been, and I think Johnson has the ability to become a very dynamic receiving back ( a la Forte). But I don't expect that this year.
Ha. Know how I know you're an SC fan? "Last name, Alshon, last name, last name."
Ha. Know how I know you're an SC fan? "Last name, Alshon, last name, last name."
Cher
Madonna
Bjork
Sting
Bono
Charro
Beck
Enya
Flea
Pink
Moby
Prince
Sade
Sinbad
Rihanna
Donovan
Wynonna
Alshon?
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True, but you only analyzed the WR corps... which BTW the Bucs did closely match.
We have a shot at approaching Forte/Bush via some combination of Crow/West/Johnson and that level of run success bodes well for a PAP-oriented Offense/QB.
That's my point exactly. The Bucs had the weapons, but not the protection. We have the protection, but not the weapons.
McCown is a facilitator - give him talent (and keep him standing), and he should distribute to the appropriate target. We have solid, young, undervalued talent at our skill positions. Some of them will surprise. But they aren't nearly enough to be relied upon...which is what I'm worried about.
We don't have big, dominating redzone threats at WR and TE and a proven every down back who is just as talented receiving out of the backfield as he is running between the tackles.
All Chicago's OL had to do was keep McCown relatively clean, which they did (5th in pass pro per Football Outsiders). On paper, our offensive line should keep him clean and should make enough holes for our RB's to run through. What remains to be seen is whether our undersized, shifty WR's can make McCown look good, like Chicago's giant ones did.
That's my point exactly. The Bucs had the weapons, but not the protection. We have the protection, but not the weapons.
McCown is a facilitator - give him talent (and keep him standing), and he should distribute to the appropriate target. We have solid, young, undervalued talent at our skill positions. Some of them will surprise. But they aren't nearly enough to be relied upon...which is what I'm worried about.
We don't have big, dominating redzone threats at WR and TE and a proven every down back who is just as talented receiving out of the backfield as he is running between the tackles.
All Chicago's OL had to do was keep McCown relatively clean, which they did (5th in pass pro per Football Outsiders). On paper, our offensive line should keep him clean and should make enough holes for our RB's to run through. What remains to be seen is whether our undersized, shifty WR's can make McCown look good, like Chicago's giant ones did.
Obviously then I missed the point. Not the first time... not the last... in fact I may still be. But if it is that of the three, offensive facets Chicago had right in '13, O-line, Run game and WRs, the one that a QB can influence the most is WR... then we agree.
What I find telling from the Bears' '13 season is that Josh's and Jay's completion percentages were very close and their TDs were roughly proportional to their starts. Only their INTs were grossly different. Not sure if Mc's low INT figure is the mark of a "facilitator"; it is the mark of a game manager.
Problem for the Bears' was that when your Defense ranks 29th in yards allowed and 30th in points allowed, then you actually need a little more gun-slinging and a little less managing from your QB. I don't think any of us expect this problem in '15.
I don't see him being worse than Hoyer, but I also don't see him being much better, either. As a matter of fact, I feel like they'll be just about the same, when all is said and done.
Two things put me in the "he'll be better" camp:
1. I get the feeling that Mc is mentally tougher... or at least that the "pressures" won't be as great on him, i.e., no home-town thing and not being hell bent to prove he's the starter.
2. Mc's stronger arm... 45 yards will not be our air attack's effective range.
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I bet McCown out plays Hoyer, and if he can, we should be in good shape............. As long as we can consistently stop the run, and then get off the field on 3rd down that is. If we don't do both of those things well, it's going to be a frustrating year.
I just don't see McCown being worse than Brian.
I don't see him being worse than Hoyer, but I also don't see him being much better, either. As a matter of fact, I feel like they'll be just about the same, when all is said and done.
If I had to throw some stats on it, I'd go for a season like:
238 completions - 408 attempts | 58.3% | 2,703 yds. | 15 TD | 14 INT | 76.2 Rating
I don't see him being worse than Hoyer, but I also don't see him being much better, either. As a matter of fact, I feel like they'll be just about the same, when all is said and done.
Cant disagree here....though I would say that Hoyer was pretty good weeks 1 thru 10, then was fairly terrible for his last 5 starts.....
So, while I dont expect McCown to be notably better than Hoyer was(weeks 1-10), I do expect him to be more consistent....and less likely to get rattled like Hoyer did......
Hoping all those extra years of experience get him(and us) through the tough times with better results.....(fingers crossed)...
I sure as hell hope we have more than 2700 yds passing though......yikes!
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Meanwhile back at the thread...
Interesting take on the impact paying a Punter a Mil-a-year more than his predecessor will have on negotiations with Gip...
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I don't see him being worse than Hoyer, but I also don't see him being much better, either. As a matter of fact, I feel like they'll be just about the same, when all is said and done.
Cant disagree here....though I would say that Hoyer was pretty good weeks 1 thru 10, then was fairly terrible for his last 5 starts.....
So, while I dont expect McCown to be notably better than Hoyer was(weeks 1-10), I do expect him to be more consistent....and less likely to get rattled like Hoyer did......
Hoping all those extra years of experience get him(and us) through the tough times with better results.....(fingers crossed)...
I sure as hell hope we have more than 2700 yds passing though......yikes!
Cant disagree here....though I would say that Hoyer was pretty good weeks 1 thru 10, then was fairly terrible for his last 5 starts.....
So, while I dont expect McCown to be notably better than Hoyer was(weeks 1-10), I do expect him to be more consistent....and less likely to get rattled like Hoyer did......
Hoping all those extra years of experience get him(and us) through the tough times with better results.....(fingers crossed)...
I sure as hell hope we have more than 2700 yds passing though......yikes!
Those stats were McCown's average game (taken by dividing his yards/completions/TDs/INTs by his number of games) extrapolated over a 17 game season.
It would be a more precise average if I removed the stats from games he didn't start, but I just didn't have that kind of time. It was a rush job.
Either way, I exoect us to hover around the 3,000 yard mark, if preseason has been any indication.
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yeah....got no issue with the stats prediction other than it's way less than Id hope to see from an improved team.......
But...assuming our O line is back and we have improvement at RB and WR...and that we had 3600 yds passing last year, then 2700 yds in 16 games would be a big drop off(way worse)....wouldnt it?
If it happens, then I at least hope we add an extra 1000 or 2 to our running stats.....or we are in HUGE trouble.....
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yeah....got no issue with the stats prediction other than it's way less than Id hope to see from an improved team.......
But...assuming our O line is back and we have improvement at RB and WR...and that we had 3600 yds passing last year, then 2700 yds in 16 games would be a big drop off(way worse)....wouldnt it?
If it happens, then I at least hope we add an extra 1000 or 2 to our running stats.....or we are in HUGE trouble.....
yeah....got no issue with the stats prediction other than it's way less than Id hope to see from an improved team.......
But...assuming our O line is back and we have improvement at RB and WR...and that we had 3600 yds passing last year, then 2700 yds in 16 games would be a big drop off(way worse)....wouldnt it?
If it happens, then I at least hope we add an extra 1000 or 2 to our running stats.....or we are in HUGE trouble.....
I agree. We'll be in major trouble if the yardage isn't made up somewhere. I'd love to see us lead the league in rushing yards this season.
A studly defense should contribute to better field position, meaning less yards for our offense to travel. Same goes for a better return game.
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Considering that we are now at least one injury deep in the O-line, bumping last year's rushing total by 20-40% looks very doable.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Considering that we are now at least one injury deep in the O-line, bumping last year's rushing total by 20-40% looks very doable.
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Are we sure we'll be running as much with the new OC? Isn't Shanahan kind of a run game extraordinaire (if nothing else)? There are certainly reasons to think we will well outdo our run game totals from last year, I'm just wondering if Flip will even keep the run volume just as high.
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I'll bet he doesn't run on first down most all the time.
that will be a breath of fresh air.
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Are we sure we'll be running as much with the new OC? Isn't Shanahan kind of a run game extraordinaire (if nothing else)? There are certainly reasons to think we will well outdo our run game totals from last year, I'm just wondering if Flip will even keep the run volume just as high.
Are we sure we'll be running as much with the new OC? Isn't Shanahan kind of a run game extraordinaire (if nothing else)? There are certainly reasons to think we will well outdo our run game totals from last year, I'm just wondering if Flip will even keep the run volume just as high.
We won't be running as frequently, no. Oakland finished dead last in the league last year in rushing percentage - only rushing on like 38% of plays.
However, I don't think that's indicative of what will happen this year, I put us more in the 45-48% range. You have to remember that Oakland's backfield was a mess last year. MJD got hurt, DMC was garbage (and also hurt, I believe), and Latavius Murray ended up taking over.
I think we'll see a more creative rushing game, with a higher YPA, and a rather even distribution of carries (unless someone absolutely takes off).
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Yup... in OAK they were pass happy out of necessity. It's not what earned Flip his shot here.
I'll take the over, TC... I can see us running even more than we did last year.
Two reasons:
- Pet sets the tone and his OC will march to his orders... especially if when the D improves over last year.
- With the depth added to the O-line we will run more effectively even should the 6th man be "up".
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
From OTA notes... http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/5-observations-from-Browns-OTAs/92eab669-eb5d-443e-aab7-70d3a6202a1c
1) Andy Lee can absolutely boom the football
Cleveland’s new punter hit the 70-yard marker on at least two of his punts, prompting return men to jokingly complain if he could take some heat off the ball. Coach Mike Pettine said it was a tough choice to let Spencer Lanning go, but the Browns believe Lee provides an upgrade to the punting position.
“It was difficult, but that’s life in the NFL,” Pettine said. “We felt we had an opportunity to make our team better. There was a Pro Bowl punter out there and we felt the cost associated was obviously very manageable.”
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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