Cleveland Browns Rumors: Ray Rice Signed if Isaiah Crowell, Terrance West Struggle?
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Btw good job with the meticulousness specifying the source(s). Very helpful.
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no way possible. nothing about his assault on his wife.........but his numbers were going down 3 years ago. unless he has some miraculous resurrecting surge of productiveness why would you even ponder this?
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Maybe the best route, Z, (certainly the easiest), but I don't feel the revulsion I did a year ago. If the team leaders said they, and the locker room in general, were OK with signing him, then I think I'd be ready to accept his signing.
And with only one bad season, 2013, leading a team that simply could not run in YPC while playing hurt most of the season (plus a year's worth of refresh), I don't see Rice as "broken down".
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John Clayton has obviously been sent back to his bedroom to smoke pot and listen to Seether Albums again.. Rice, The Cowboys are all set-up for your arrival at any time. Welker, Seahawks maybe your last Ring.. ( I do believe P. Taylor owes Rice a spit in the face and he's not going to take it like his fiancé in the locker room)..Zing Zing!!
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Maybe the best route, Z, (certainly the easiest), but I don't feel the revulsion I did a year ago. If the team leaders said they, and the locker room in general, were OK with signing him, then I think I'd be ready to accept his signing.
And with only one bad season, 2013, leading a team that simply could not run in YPC while playing hurt most of the season (plus a year's worth of refresh), I don't see Rice as "broken down".
Maybe the best route, Z, (certainly the easiest), but I don't feel the revulsion I did a year ago. If the team leaders said they, and the locker room in general, were OK with signing him, then I think I'd be ready to accept his signing.And with only one bad season, 2013, leading a team that simply could not run in YPC while playing hurt most of the season (plus a year's worth of refresh), I don't see Rice as "broken down".
One bad season for a running back = you're done.
He would be the fourth most effective rb in our camp, why is this a conversation?
Z
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Maybe the best route, Z, (certainly the easiest), but I don't feel the revulsion I did a year ago. If the team leaders said they, and the locker room in general, were OK with signing him, then I think I'd be ready to accept his signing.And with only one bad season, 2013, leading a team that simply could not run in YPC while playing hurt most of the season (plus a year's worth of refresh), I don't see Rice as "broken down".
One bad season for a running back = you're done.
He would be the fourth most effective rb in our camp, why is this a conversation?
Z
I'd love to know how you can rank any one of our RB's ahead of him.Zombo said:
One bad season for a running back = you're done.
He would be the fourth most effective rb in our camp, why is this a conversation?
Z
He's a 28 year old 3 time Pro Bowler and his "down year" was still better than either Crow's or West's only season.
I think you're letting your personal opinion of him get in the way.
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I'd love to know how you can rank any one of our RB's ahead of him.Zombo said:
One bad season for a running back = you're done.
He would be the fourth most effective rb in our camp, why is this a conversation?
Z
He's a 28 year old 3 time Pro Bowler and his "down year" was still better than either Crow's or West's only season.
I think you're letting your personal opinion of him get in the way.
I'd love to know how you can rank any one of our RB's ahead of him.
He's a 28 year old 3 time Pro Bowler and his "down year" was still better than either Crow's or West's only season.
I think you're letting your personal opinion of him get in the way.
I'm letting my personal opinion of him get in the way of my personal opinion of him?
My personal opinion of him is that he was great in 2011, he was good in 2012, and he was awful in 2013. Not a good trend for running backs.
3.1 yards per carry in 2013. I think that is what Willis McGahee had too that year, so you really expect him to be better than West and Crowell, two young stud backs who are already averaging way more carry than West's last season?
Name me a running back that went from a 1,000 yard season to a 600 yard, 3.1 ypc type season, and then came back to be a stud again. Name one. He'd be the fourth back in camp, and you know it.
Z
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Don't know how comparable it is but Lynch went 737/3.6 in 2010. 450/3.8 in 09.
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It was Slayer.
My Bad, You right. I pulled a Clayton, may have been twisted myself. No Wink here..
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I'd love to know how you can rank any one of our RB's ahead of him.
He's a 28 year old 3 time Pro Bowler and his "down year" was still better than either Crow's or West's only season.
I think you're letting your personal opinion of him get in the way.
I'm letting my personal opinion of him get in the way of my personal opinion of him?
My personal opinion of him is that he was great in 2011, he was good in 2012, and he was awful in 2013. Not a good trend for running backs.
3.1 yards per carry in 2013. I think that is what Willis McGahee had too that year, so you really expect him to be better than West and Crowell, two young stud backs who are already averaging way more carry than West's last season?
Name me a running back that went from a 1,000 yard season to a 600 yard, 3.1 ypc type season, and then came back to be a stud again. Name one. He'd be the fourth back in camp, and you know it.
Z
Zombo said:
I'm letting my personal opinion of him get in the way of my personal opinion of him?
My personal opinion of him is that he was great in 2011, he was good in 2012, and he was awful in 2013. Not a good trend for running backs.
3.1 yards per carry in 2013. I think that is what Willis McGahee had too that year, so you really expect him to be better than West and Crowell, two young stud backs who are already averaging way more carry than West's last season?
Name me a running back that went from a 1,000 yard season to a 600 yard, 3.1 ypc type season, and then came back to be a stud again. Name one. He'd be the fourth back in camp, and you know it.
Z
You're letting your personal opinion get in the way of facts. His 3.1 yards per carry were only slightly worse than West's 3.8. Crowell was only at 4.1. It's not like either of or two backs had a Latavius Murray-esque 5.8 YPC breakout year. Calling them "two studs" is something of a stretch. They may be "studs" for Cleveland, but compared to the NFL, they are slightly above average.
As for RB's who had down years...
Marshall Faulk '96
Earl Campbell '82
OJ '69 - '71
Lynch '09 -'11
That took me two minutes. All of them had low 3 YPC, sub 1000 yard seasons. Came back to be completely fine. I'm sure there are many more.
Rice is proven to be better than anyone we have in our backfield at this current moment.
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Speaking of Baltimore: this sent to me by a friend.
The coach had put together the perfect team for the Baltimore Ravens. The only thing that was missing was a good quarterback. He had scouted all the colleges and even the Canadian and European Leagues, but he couldn't find a ringer who could ensure a Super Bowl win.Then one night while watching CNN he saw a war-zone scene in the West Bank . In one corner of the background, he spotted a young Israeli soldier with a truly incredible arm. He threw a hand-grenade straight into a 15th story window 100 yards away.
KABOOM!
He threw another hand-grenade 75 yards away, right into a chimney.
KA-BLOOEY!
Then he threw another at a passing car going 90 mph.
BULLS-EYE!
"I've got to get this guy!" Coach said to himself. "He has the perfect Arm!"
So, he brings him to the States and teaches him the great game of football. And the Ravens go on to win the Super Bowl.
The young man is hailed as the great hero of football, and when the coach asks him what he wants, all the young man wants is to call his
Mother.
"Mom," he says into the phone, "I just won the Super Bowl!"
"I don't want to talk to you, the old woman says." You are not my son!"
"I don't think you understand, Mother," the young man pleads. "I've won the greatest sporting event in the world. I'm here among thousands of my adoring fans."
"No! Let me tell you!" his mother retorts. "At this very moment, there are gunshots all around us. The neighborhood is a pile of rubble. Your two brothers were beaten within an inch of their lives last week, and I have to keep your sister in the house so she doesn't get raped!" The old lady pauses, and then tearfully says,...
"I will never forgive you for making us move to Baltimore
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Zombo said:
I'm letting my personal opinion of him get in the way of my personal opinion of him?
My personal opinion of him is that he was great in 2011, he was good in 2012, and he was awful in 2013. Not a good trend for running backs.
3.1 yards per carry in 2013. I think that is what Willis McGahee had too that year, so you really expect him to be better than West and Crowell, two young stud backs who are already averaging way more carry than West's last season?
Name me a running back that went from a 1,000 yard season to a 600 yard, 3.1 ypc type season, and then came back to be a stud again. Name one. He'd be the fourth back in camp, and you know it.
Z
You're letting your personal opinion get in the way of facts. His 3.1 yards per carry were only slightly worse than West's 3.8. Crowell was only at 4.1. It's not like either of or two backs had a Latavius Murray-esque 5.8 YPC breakout year. Calling them "two studs" is something of a stretch. They may be "studs" for Cleveland, but compared to the NFL, they are slightly above average.
As for RB's who had down years...
Marshall Faulk '96
Earl Campbell '82
OJ '69 - '71
Lynch '09 -'11
That took me two minutes. All of them had low 3 YPC, sub 1000 yard seasons. Came back to be completely fine. I'm sure there are many more.
Rice is proven to be better than anyone we have in our backfield at this current moment.
You're letting your personal opinion get in the way of facts. His 3.1 yards per carry were only slightly worse than West's 3.8. Crowell was only at 4.1. It's not like either of or two backs had a Latavius Murray-esque 5.8 YPC breakout year. Calling them "two studs" is something of a stretch. They may be "studs" for Cleveland, but compared to the NFL, they are slightly above average.
As for RB's who had down years...
Marshall Faulk '96
Earl Campbell '82
OJ '69 - '71
Lynch '09 -'11
That took me two minutes. All of them had low 3 YPC, sub 1000 yard seasons. Came back to be completely fine. I'm sure there are many more.
Rice is proven to be better than anyone we have in our backfield at this current moment.
My personal opinion is that the facts speak for themselves. 3.1 per carry is awful and much worse than West's 3.9 or Crow's 4.1, and he did it on on a better team with a legit passing game.
As for your super two-minute examples:
Marshall Faulk had a toe injury that year, we was 23, he bounced back.
Earl Campbell had only one decent year left in him and was washed up at 29
O.J. ? Those were the beginning of his career, not the end ... dismissed. (I asked for 1,000 yard rushers who slumped as badly as Rice and came back as studs)
Lynch I'll give you, but again, he was 23 ... it wasn't that he was declining, he hadn't found himself yet.
Rice is 28. 28.
You want to compare him to a 23 year old Marshall Faulk, O.J. Simpson or Marshawn Lynch?
His workhorse days are over. He can be a third down back for someone, but we drafted for that position, so ... sorry, wrong team.
Zombo
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Maybe the best route, Z, (certainly the easiest), but I don't feel the revulsion I did a year ago. If the team leaders said they, and the locker room in general, were OK with signing him, then I think I'd be ready to accept his signing.And with only one bad season, 2013, leading a team that simply could not run in YPC while playing hurt most of the season (plus a year's worth of refresh), I don't see Rice as "broken down".
One bad season for a running back = you're done.
He would be the fourth most effective rb in our camp, why is this a conversation?
Z
Zombo said:
One bad season for a running back = you're done.
He would be the fourth most effective rb in our camp, why is this a conversation?
Z
It has been 2 years since Rice has been reasonably productive. Between West, Crowell, Johnson they should get the job done.
I am not sure at this point that Rice could be any better than Shaun Draughn, Luke Lundy, Glen Winston....the other RBs on the roster.
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Speaking of Baltimore: this sent to me by a friend.
The coach had put together the perfect team for the Baltimore Ravens. The only thing that was missing was a good quarterback. He had scouted all the colleges and even the Canadian and European Leagues, but he couldn't find a ringer who could ensure a Super Bowl win.Then one night while watching CNN he saw a war-zone scene in the West Bank . In one corner of the background, he spotted a young Israeli soldier with a truly incredible arm. He threw a hand-grenade straight into a 15th story window 100 yards away.
KABOOM!
He threw another hand-grenade 75 yards away, right into a chimney.
KA-BLOOEY!
Then he threw another at a passing car going 90 mph.
BULLS-EYE!
"I've got to get this guy!" Coach said to himself. "He has the perfect Arm!"
So, he brings him to the States and teaches him the great game of football. And the Ravens go on to win the Super Bowl.
The young man is hailed as the great hero of football, and when the coach asks him what he wants, all the young man wants is to call his
Mother.
"Mom," he says into the phone, "I just won the Super Bowl!"
"I don't want to talk to you, the old woman says." You are not my son!"
"I don't think you understand, Mother," the young man pleads. "I've won the greatest sporting event in the world. I'm here among thousands of my adoring fans."
"No! Let me tell you!" his mother retorts. "At this very moment, there are gunshots all around us. The neighborhood is a pile of rubble. Your two brothers were beaten within an inch of their lives last week, and I have to keep your sister in the house so she doesn't get raped!" The old lady pauses, and then tearfully says,...
"I will never forgive you for making us move to Baltimore
Speaking of Baltimore: this sent to me by a friend.
The coach had put together the perfect team for the Baltimore Ravens. The only thing that was missing was a good quarterback. He had scouted all the colleges and even the Canadian and European Leagues, but he couldn't find a ringer who could ensure a Super Bowl win.Then one night while watching CNN he saw a war-zone scene in the West Bank . In one corner of the background, he spotted a young Israeli soldier with a truly incredible arm. He threw a hand-grenade straight into a 15th story window 100 yards away.
KABOOM!
He threw another hand-grenade 75 yards away, right into a chimney.
KA-BLOOEY!
Then he threw another at a passing car going 90 mph.
BULLS-EYE!
"I've got to get this guy!" Coach said to himself. "He has the perfect Arm!"
So, he brings him to the States and teaches him the great game of football. And the Ravens go on to win the Super Bowl.
The young man is hailed as the great hero of football, and when the coach asks him what he wants, all the young man wants is to call his
Mother.
"Mom," he says into the phone, "I just won the Super Bowl!"
"I don't want to talk to you, the old woman says." You are not my son!"
"I don't think you understand, Mother," the young man pleads. "I've won the greatest sporting event in the world. I'm here among thousands of my adoring fans."
"No! Let me tell you!" his mother retorts. "At this very moment, there are gunshots all around us. The neighborhood is a pile of rubble. Your two brothers were beaten within an inch of their lives last week, and I have to keep your sister in the house so she doesn't get raped!" The old lady pauses, and then tearfully says,...
"I will never forgive you for making us move to Baltimore
My son came thisclose to moving to Baltimore for grad school. While I suspect that he probably would have been fine, I am glad at this point that he chose small town upstate NY instead.
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You're letting your personal opinion get in the way of facts. His 3.1 yards per carry were only slightly worse than West's 3.8. Crowell was only at 4.1. It's not like either of or two backs had a Latavius Murray-esque 5.8 YPC breakout year. Calling them "two studs" is something of a stretch. They may be "studs" for Cleveland, but compared to the NFL, they are slightly above average.
As for RB's who had down years...
Marshall Faulk '96
Earl Campbell '82
OJ '69 - '71
Lynch '09 -'11
That took me two minutes. All of them had low 3 YPC, sub 1000 yard seasons. Came back to be completely fine. I'm sure there are many more.
Rice is proven to be better than anyone we have in our backfield at this current moment.
My personal opinion is that the facts speak for themselves. 3.1 per carry is awful and much worse than West's 3.9 or Crow's 4.1, and he did it on on a better team with a legit passing game.
As for your super two-minute examples:
Marshall Faulk had a toe injury that year, we was 23, he bounced back.
Earl Campbell had only one decent year left in him and was washed up at 29
O.J. ? Those were the beginning of his career, not the end ... dismissed. (I asked for 1,000 yard rushers who slumped as badly as Rice and came back as studs)
Lynch I'll give you, but again, he was 23 ... it wasn't that he was declining, he hadn't found himself yet.
Rice is 28. 28.
You want to compare him to a 23 year old Marshall Faulk, O.J. Simpson or Marshawn Lynch?
His workhorse days are over. He can be a third down back for someone, but we drafted for that position, so ... sorry, wrong team.
Zombo
Zombo said:
My personal opinion is that the facts speak for themselves. 3.1 per carry is awful and much worse than West's 3.9 or Crow's 4.1, and he did it on on a better team with a legit passing game.
As for your super two-minute examples:
Marshall Faulk had a toe injury that year, we was 23, he bounced back.
Earl Campbell had only one decent year left in him and was washed up at 29
O.J. ? Those were the beginning of his career, not the end ... dismissed. (I asked for 1,000 yard rushers who slumped as badly as Rice and came back as studs)
Lynch I'll give you, but again, he was 23 ... it wasn't that he was declining, he hadn't found himself yet.
Rice is 28. 28.
You want to compare him to a 23 year old Marshall Faulk, O.J. Simpson or Marshawn Lynch?
His workhorse days are over. He can be a third down back for someone, but we drafted for that position, so ... sorry, wrong team.
Zombo
-So Faulk's toe injury is a perfectly fine excuse for a down season, but Rice's hip injury isn't?
-Campbell still bounced back for 1300 yards and 12 TD's the next season. You asked for an RB who came back to be a stud, Campbell was a stud the following season.
-It also could have been that Buffalo just wasn't utilizing Lynch correctly, or that Lynch was hurt, or he just wasn't an effective cold weather RB. Could have been any contributing factor, still doesn't change that he slumped and then experienced a resurgence.
Here's more:
-Matt Forte had a sub 1000 yard, 3.6 YPC season sandwiched between two 1000+ yard 4+ YPC seasons.
-Edgerrin James had a sub 1000 yard, 3.6 YPC season after two 1500+ yard seasons, then followed it up with five 1200 yard plus seasons.
-Ricky Williams smoked his way to Canada and came back for 1100 yards at age 30.
-Jim Brown had a sub 1,000 yard season smashed in the middle of seven 1200+ yard seasons. His 4.3 YPC that season was a full yard below his career average. I'd say a 4.3 YPC season for Browns is akin to a 3.1 YPC season for Rice (which is one of the strongest compliments I can muster for Brown)
-Warrick Dunn had two garbage years and an injury riddled year after his Pro Bowl 2000 season. He then came back to rush for 1100+ yards three years in a row after that.
-Ricky Watters had a sub 900 yard season, then rushed for 1200+ yards 6 our of the next seven years.
-John Riggins had a 500 yard season after his Pro Bowl year, then came back and rushed for 1000+ yards four different times - three times after he hit 30.
The signing of Rice wouldn't be for a 300 carry, 2,000 yard, 10 year workhorse runningback. Those backs are few and far between in today's NFL as it is - I can name two.
Rice would be for a complement to Johnson if Crow and West struggle, as clearly stated in the title of the thread. And, as a complement, Rice brings a wealth of talent and experience to the backfield. Runningbacks deteriorate faster than any other position, I get that. But on paper, a 28 year old Ray Rice is still a better option than a 23 year old Terrance West. And if West struggles in camp, Rice would also be a better option on the field as well.
Marcus Allen played for 16 years and was a six-time Pro Bowler...and he broke the 1,000 yard mark only once in his career. I'd take an Allen level production on 1st and 2nd down from Rice over the next three years.
People sometimes overvalue our players based off of a small sample size/draft position/where the guy grew up. A Terrance West level of production from an RB for another team wouldn't warrant much talk around here. I'm excited for their potential, because they are both wonderful steals...but being a steal doesn't necessarily equal on-field success.
Assuming that Rice's 2009 season was his peak (5.3 YPC), a Ray Rice at 75% (4 YPC) is still more productive than West...and just about as productive as Crowell.
I agree that it wouldn't make sense to take Rice if Crow and West have even mediocre offseasons - which they seem to be having. But if West continues to struggle in the other facets of the position that don't involve carrying the ball, or if Crowell continues to fumble...then signing Rice as a complement for Johnson would be a no-brainer.
Either way, the argument was that Rice would be the fourth RB on our roster...which is a complete and utter fallacy. Taking career averages, he'd clearly be the first. By experience, he'd clearly be the first. By YPC, he'd be the first. Even going by potential, he'd still be ahead of West...and probably Crowell.
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I could see this talk about Rice being something if the Browns run game was in utter disarray, but it wasn't. Here are the comparative stats for the AFCN in the run game:
Browns 477 atts. 1728 yards 108.0 ypg 3.6 ypa 17 TD
Ravens 448 atts. 2019 yards 126.2 ypg 4.5 ypa 16 TDs
Bengals 492 atts. 2147 yards 134.2 ypg 4.4 ypa 19TDs
Steelers 423 atts. 1752 yards 109.5 ypg 4.1 ypa 10 TDs
And here are the stats of the other NFL playoff teams:
Patriots 438 atts. 1727 yards 107.9 ypg 3.9 ypa 13 TDs
Colts 415 atts. 1612 yards 100.8 ypg 3.9 ypa 9 TDs
Broncos 443 atts. 1785 yards 111.6 ypg 4.0 ypa 15 TDs
Cowboys 508 atts. 2354 yards 147.1 ypg 4.6 ypa 16 TDs
Packers 435 atts. 1917 yards 119.8 ypg 4.4 ypa 14 TDs
Lions 396 atts. 1422 yards 88.9 ypg 3.6 ypa 11 TDs
Panthers 473 atts. 2036 yards 127.3 ypg 4.3 ypa 10 TDs
Seahawks 525 atts. 2762 yards 172.6 ypg 5.3 ypa 20 TDs
Cardinals 397 atts. 1308 yards 81.8 ypg 3.3 ypa 6 TDs.
So, clearly except for the Seahawks and Cowboys who had the best running games in the league....the Browns were competitive with all the playoff teams in terms of running the ball. (the same would definitely be true in terms of passing it.) Most of this burden was carried by Crowell and West....behind a hurting OL. Add the Duke and what he can do and return Alex Mack to the OL, and this rush game can likely do OK. That has not been the Browns big problem.
One thing that Shanahan's offense did not do was to involve the RBs in the passing game. Big mistake imo....a mistake hopefully rectified.
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Ray Rice, a Cleveland Brown?
Ugh, god I hope not.
Rice doesn't deserve to be a Brown, and he's probably on the back nine of his career anyway due to his age and the beating he's already taken over the course of his career. I would rather give those carries to a younger guy such as Duke Johnson or Glenn Winston.
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