The Unofficial... Off-Season... O-line Thread
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If you saw the D-line thread, then y'all should have seen this one coming...
Coaches make for better material, but so far, other than a tidbit here and there from Pet and Flip, only a couple players to be found.
Nice interview with John Greco form a bit ago. Hits all the topics from Mack and filling in for him is back to Cam and competition to being the only guy drafted after Round 2...
Tour's CliffNotes:
- JG never has had the luxury of "being the guy"; approaches every season as if a 1st rounder was drafted to replace him.
- In the room Cam has shown he is "a smart young kid".
- On whether JM has offered explanation of his issues: "No, and we haven't asked. That's his personal business."
- They really need to fix that door. A small rubber bumper would work wonders.
Tour's CliffNotes:
- As you'd expect... a lot of deflecting questions concerning contract and future beyond 2015 season.
- On willingness to help Cam learn the Center position: "Being a good teammate and a good person is to help everyone out... on the O-line and the whole team."
- Shanahan's outside ZBS, techniques' teachings will still be "very applicable" this year.
- The Browns' employee who called "time" at the end of the session looks like the drunken JM fan in the stands from last season.
If you saw the D-line thread, then y'all should have seen this one coming...
Coaches make for better material, but so far, other than a tidbit here and there from Pet and Flip, only a couple players to be found.
Nice interview with John Greco form a bit ago. Hits all the topics from Mack and filling in for him is back to Cam and competition to being the only guy drafted after Round 2...
Tour's CliffNotes:
- JG never has had the luxury of "being the guy"; approaches every season as if a 1st rounder was drafted to replace him.
- In the room Cam has shown he is "a smart young kid".
- On whether JM has offered explanation of his issues: "No, and we haven't asked. That's his personal business."
- They really need to fix that door. A small rubber bumper would work wonders.
Tour's CliffNotes:
- As you'd expect... a lot of deflecting questions concerning contract and future beyond 2015 season.
- On willingness to help Cam learn the Center position: "Being a good teammate and a good person is to help everyone out... on the O-line and the whole team."
- Shanahan's outside ZBS, techniques' teachings will still be "very applicable" this year.
- The Browns' employee who called "time" at the end of the session looks like the drunken JM fan in the stands from last season.
Well done. Thanks Tour!
I don't think it's a horrible thing for us or Cam if he doesn't start in 2015. If we didn't have a Pro Bowl caliber Center and LT already in-house with Schwartz's run blocking experience in a zbs dating back as far as Cal - I would see more of an urgency. If there's a quiet underlying hope for Erving to start at RG, look how long it took Greco to emerge as the type of Guard he was in 2014. I think he only had something like 4 fill-in starts in St Louis before he came to us in a conditional trade where just 1 start in his first year in Cleveland would have reduced what we got back in exchange value as far as draft pick. Last offseason, I read Greco lost something like 21 pounds so the buddy I told that to asked me where I read that from the day Greco failed his conditioning tests. I had to tell him I think the author was Seymore Crack. All kidding aside, 2014 was arguably the best version of Greco we had seen even if it took 7 years to tap that. Not everyone shows up as ready to rock as Bitonio.
In our line in 2014 - the Center called out the blocking schemes so we quickly noticed the difference between experience (Mack) and anything else trying to jump in. If you're new, how do you know whether to have you OG and tackle on the playside to perform a roll block, loop block, fold block, drive block, reach block, down block, etc all within the 5-10 seconds you have remaining after you break the huddle? That art takes experience that somebody who wasn't here in training camp and OTAs might not have. Understandably Joe Thomas said they had communication breakdowns after Mack was injured. I think they probably want to get Erving a little stronger so he's helpful at the point of attack. I thought I heard or read the QB will be calling out the blocking schemes up front in 2015, which I have mixed feelings about. Mack is as good as it gets with that especially at the expense of asking Manziel or Shaw to do it if we're at that point.
I'm interested in seeing what Michael Bowie brings to the table and how legitimately he can challenge for a starting spot. Their presence here keeps fannies lit to perform at a good level. If Bowie or Erving is the first guy off the bench - it's a lot more comforting than the reality of being just 1 twisted ankle away from seeing Reid Fragle or O'Neil Cousins in recent years. I know McCown is happy he doesn't have Cousins upfront on 3rd and long like Tampa treated him to.
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Thanks, Flugs.. and yup, Bowie is still the unknown quantity in this equation (and to a lesser extent Painter). If Bowie is close to what the staff seems to hope he is, then we are legitimately 7 deep... more or less the league minimum for sound sleeping...
It did look like Greco found most of what weight he lost last year to quicken up for young Shanny's ZBS, but no doubt he'll get leaner for, or in, camp.
It sounded like Greco was less than convinced we would not have been better off with him at C the balance of last year. At the time I thought our poor showing vs. JAX was more attributable to McQuistan's record-low rating backfilling for JG at RG vs. one of the league's better D-lines, but line call issues may well have been a major contributor.
Given his experience you'd think John would have been our best sub for making line calls. But for sure neither McDonald nor Seymore had the physical talent to play the position compared to JG let alone Mack.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Thanks, Flugs.. and yup, Bowie is still the unknown quantity in this equation (and to a lesser extent Painter). If Bowie is close to what the staff seems to hope he is, then we are legitimately 7 deep... more or less the league minimum for sound sleeping...
It did look like Greco found most of what weight he lost last year to quicken up for young Shanny's ZBS, but no doubt he'll get leaner for, or in, camp.
It sounded like Greco was less than convinced we would not have been better off with him at C the balance of last year. At the time I thought our poor showing vs. JAX was more attributable to McQuistan's record-low rating backfilling for JG at RG vs. one of the league's better D-lines, but line call issues may well have been a major contributor.
Given his experience you'd think John would have been our best sub for making line calls. But for sure neither McDonald nor Seymore had the physical talent to play the position compared to JG let alone Mack.
Thanks, Flugs.. and yup, Bowie is still the unknown quantity in this equation (and to a lesser extent Painter). If Bowie is close to what the staff seems to hope he is, then we are legitimately 7 deep... more or less the league minimum for sound sleeping...
It did look like Greco found most of what weight he lost last year to quicken up for young Shanny's ZBS, but no doubt he'll get leaner for, or in, camp.
It sounded like Greco was less than convinced we would not have been better off with him at C the balance of last year. At the time I thought our poor showing vs. JAX was more attributable to McQuistan's record-low rating backfilling for JG at RG vs. one of the league's better D-lines, but line call issues may well have been a major contributor.
Given his experience you'd think John would have been our best sub for making line calls. But for sure neither McDonald nor Seymore had the physical talent to play the position compared to JG let alone Mack.
Good points about Greco. He did a terrific job at Center against Pittsburgh especially when we remember how bad the first quarter went for our offense statistically when we had Mack in there. Things took a drastic turn for the better before Mack got hurt that game. Then it was really comforting to see us not skip a beat, add to our lead while our QB could stay right in the shotgun after Greco moved over to Center. That's a first impression worth keeping.
The offensive coaches probably put a lot of time into weighing the lesser of all evils after the Jax game. As you said, McQuistan was an epic disappointment and bigtime anchor in that Jax game. That ultimately changed his position here from Right Guard to Left Out. If I had to guess, his 6'6" frame looked like it worked against him going up against squattier/girthier DTs far more than it ever did when he filled in at OT for Seattle against taller and leaner guys off the edge. Not only was his chance for better leverage outside; but that's more comfortable on the QB knowing he's lining up that much further away from every snap. McDonald had a tendency to get sloppy with pad height like that 1 play Gerald McCoy threw him back past Hoyer's dropback. As embarrassing as that had to be and despite his physical limitations, I liked the way he battled and never quit. That was probably the difference our coaches saw between McDonald and McQuistan in terms of who stayed and who sprayed. Outside of 1 game, Seymour never really became as much of an upgrade to McDonald as I thought he'd be. That said, I read our coaches really liked what they saw in Seymour - and he has a new contract because of it.I've been going to Vandy games every year since we moved to Nashville and Seymour was an absolute stud on their back to back 9 win teams that had an impressive running game featuring Zac Stacy. Barring injury, this could be the best group of 8 olinemen we keep for the active roster this side of 1999. We shall see...
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After listening to Flip yesterday, Im feeling more comfy with my prediction that Cam will be our RG this year, with Greco coming off the Bench.....
Haven't heard a peep on Bowie though.....so Ima stay with the whipping boy Schwartz and guess he will hold his position......again...
Hes gonna be a free agent next season and think he will be very much pursued....if we dont resign him first...
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Article on Bowie with a very good, imbedded video interview with Andy Moeller (OL Coach) that seems to be a couple weeks old.
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Dawgs by Nature's 2-part, O-line Preview.
Part One covers the left-side, lock-ins: Thomas, Bito and Mack.
http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/7/5/8895409/cleveland-browns-training-camp-2015-ol-preview-part-1
Part Two covers the right-side, battles: Greco, Schwartz, Erving and Bowie:
http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/7/6/8903557/cleveland-browns-training-camp-2015-ol-preview-part-2
Obviously Part Two is where it gets interesting... and the author has an interesting take...
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Interesting that in the poll last year's starting duo of Greco/Schwartz was leading by only 4 %age points over Erving/Bowie (28% vs 24% of votes cast thus far)
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Interesting that in the poll last year's starting duo of Greco/Schwartz was leading by only 4 %age points over Erving/Bowie (28% vs 24% of votes cast thus far)
Interesting that in the poll last year's starting duo of Greco/Schwartz was leading by only 4 %age points over Erving/Bowie (28% vs 24% of votes cast thus far)
Last year's line was very solid, with Mack in it. Greco was excellent, and Schwartz was no slouch. If someone wants to replace Schwartz, they'd better be *very* good. Which is fine by me of course, just means our line gets better.
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Interesting that in the poll last year's starting duo of Greco/Schwartz was leading by only 4 %age points over Erving/Bowie (28% vs 24% of votes cast thus far)
Last year's line was very solid, with Mack in it. Greco was excellent, and Schwartz was no slouch. If someone wants to replace Schwartz, they'd better be *very* good. Which is fine by me of course, just means our line gets better.
Last year's line was very solid, with Mack in it. Greco was excellent, and Schwartz was no slouch. If someone wants to replace Schwartz, they'd better be *very* good. Which is fine by me of course, just means our line gets better.
And what I like best is that it brings out that competition to start that Pettine bases this team on. It can only make us better than last year.
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Last year's line was very solid, with Mack in it. Greco was excellent, and Schwartz was no slouch. If someone wants to replace Schwartz, they'd better be *very* good. Which is fine by me of course, just means our line gets better.
And what I like best is that it brings out that competition to start that Pettine bases this team on. It can only make us better than last year.
And what I like best is that it brings out that competition to start that Pettine bases this team on. It can only make us better than last year.
Another thing to note - although it's great that JT hasn't missed a snap and is currently being fitted for a gold jacket and a bust, as we saw with Mack, there's nothing to say his every-snap streak won't end on snap 1 of the pre-season even. For the first time in basically ever, we have someone in Erving who can actually do a reasonable job covering.
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Interesting that in the poll last year's starting duo of Greco/Schwartz was leading by only 4 %age points over Erving/Bowie (28% vs 24% of votes cast thus far)
Interesting that in the poll last year's starting duo of Greco/Schwartz was leading by only 4 %age points over Erving/Bowie (28% vs 24% of votes cast thus far)
Interesting AND surprising....24% want to replace 2 veteran players who performed really well with 2 unproven players with little or no experience?......Ok......
And what I like best is that it brings out that competition to start that Pettine bases this team on. It can only make us better than last year.
.....love the depth and the competition all over the place.....so much better than players just winning the job by default, just because they're the only ones who can almost play.....
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And what I like best is that it brings out that competition to start that Pettine bases this team on. It can only make us better than last year.
Another thing to note - although it's great that JT hasn't missed a snap and is currently being fitted for a gold jacket and a bust, as we saw with Mack, there's nothing to say his every-snap streak won't end on snap 1 of the pre-season even. For the first time in basically ever, we have someone in Erving who can actually do a reasonable job covering.
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Shhhhhhhhhush!!!!......better take that back....otherwise, if it happens, its on you buddy.....
If it happens, come back here and I'll apologize
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So, if somebody has to fill in for Joe Thomas, GOD FORBID,...
who would it be?
Irving, I suppose. I don't see where Bowie ever played LT.
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They're working Irving there right now, so Id think he's the logical choice.....but Id also say Bitonio would be a decent option...
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Ding Ding Ding...
Bito was clearly our best LT option last year had a non-Thomas need arose
This is just your opinion based on observation and last year's preseason right? Or did Bitonio actually play there a few plays during the season?
Regardless, why not, then, start him at RT?
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This is just your opinion based on observation and last year's preseason right? Or did Bitonio actually play there a few plays during the season?
Regardless, why not, then, start him at RT?
Bito didnt play there, but is the only other true OT on the team, so he would have been the logical back up last season. In re to playing RT, I think they feel he's a great guard, but would only be average at tackle.....plus...if he played RT, then we'd only have about the same level of play at that position, while having a huge drop off at LG......(cause, then, who would play there?)....
Ha!.....poor Mitchell Schwartz....never missed a single play in his whole career....ranked in the top 1/2 of the league.....yet everyone wants him to be replaced......
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