The Unofficial... Off-Season... O-line Thread
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Thanks, Flugs.. and yup, Bowie is still the unknown quantity in this equation (and to a lesser extent Painter). If Bowie is close to what the staff seems to hope he is, then we are legitimately 7 deep... more or less the league minimum for sound sleeping...
It did look like Greco found most of what weight he lost last year to quicken up for young Shanny's ZBS, but no doubt he'll get leaner for, or in, camp.
It sounded like Greco was less than convinced we would not have been better off with him at C the balance of last year. At the time I thought our poor showing vs. JAX was more attributable to McQuistan's record-low rating backfilling for JG at RG vs. one of the league's better D-lines, but line call issues may well have been a major contributor.
Given his experience you'd think John would have been our best sub for making line calls. But for sure neither McDonald nor Seymore had the physical talent to play the position compared to JG let alone Mack.
Thanks, Flugs.. and yup, Bowie is still the unknown quantity in this equation (and to a lesser extent Painter). If Bowie is close to what the staff seems to hope he is, then we are legitimately 7 deep... more or less the league minimum for sound sleeping...
It did look like Greco found most of what weight he lost last year to quicken up for young Shanny's ZBS, but no doubt he'll get leaner for, or in, camp.
It sounded like Greco was less than convinced we would not have been better off with him at C the balance of last year. At the time I thought our poor showing vs. JAX was more attributable to McQuistan's record-low rating backfilling for JG at RG vs. one of the league's better D-lines, but line call issues may well have been a major contributor.
Given his experience you'd think John would have been our best sub for making line calls. But for sure neither McDonald nor Seymore had the physical talent to play the position compared to JG let alone Mack.
Good points about Greco. He did a terrific job at Center against Pittsburgh especially when we remember how bad the first quarter went for our offense statistically when we had Mack in there. Things took a drastic turn for the better before Mack got hurt that game. Then it was really comforting to see us not skip a beat, add to our lead while our QB could stay right in the shotgun after Greco moved over to Center. That's a first impression worth keeping.
The offensive coaches probably put a lot of time into weighing the lesser of all evils after the Jax game. As you said, McQuistan was an epic disappointment and bigtime anchor in that Jax game. That ultimately changed his position here from Right Guard to Left Out. If I had to guess, his 6'6" frame looked like it worked against him going up against squattier/girthier DTs far more than it ever did when he filled in at OT for Seattle against taller and leaner guys off the edge. Not only was his chance for better leverage outside; but that's more comfortable on the QB knowing he's lining up that much further away from every snap. McDonald had a tendency to get sloppy with pad height like that 1 play Gerald McCoy threw him back past Hoyer's dropback. As embarrassing as that had to be and despite his physical limitations, I liked the way he battled and never quit. That was probably the difference our coaches saw between McDonald and McQuistan in terms of who stayed and who sprayed. Outside of 1 game, Seymour never really became as much of an upgrade to McDonald as I thought he'd be. That said, I read our coaches really liked what they saw in Seymour - and he has a new contract because of it.I've been going to Vandy games every year since we moved to Nashville and Seymour was an absolute stud on their back to back 9 win teams that had an impressive running game featuring Zac Stacy. Barring injury, this could be the best group of 8 olinemen we keep for the active roster this side of 1999. We shall see...
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After listening to Flip yesterday, Im feeling more comfy with my prediction that Cam will be our RG this year, with Greco coming off the Bench.....
Haven't heard a peep on Bowie though.....so Ima stay with the whipping boy Schwartz and guess he will hold his position......again...
Hes gonna be a free agent next season and think he will be very much pursued....if we dont resign him first...
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Article on Bowie with a very good, imbedded video interview with Andy Moeller (OL Coach) that seems to be a couple weeks old.
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Dawgs by Nature's 2-part, O-line Preview.
Part One covers the left-side, lock-ins: Thomas, Bito and Mack.
http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/7/5/8895409/cleveland-browns-training-camp-2015-ol-preview-part-1
Part Two covers the right-side, battles: Greco, Schwartz, Erving and Bowie:
http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/7/6/8903557/cleveland-browns-training-camp-2015-ol-preview-part-2
Obviously Part Two is where it gets interesting... and the author has an interesting take...
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Interesting that in the poll last year's starting duo of Greco/Schwartz was leading by only 4 %age points over Erving/Bowie (28% vs 24% of votes cast thus far)
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Interesting that in the poll last year's starting duo of Greco/Schwartz was leading by only 4 %age points over Erving/Bowie (28% vs 24% of votes cast thus far)
Interesting that in the poll last year's starting duo of Greco/Schwartz was leading by only 4 %age points over Erving/Bowie (28% vs 24% of votes cast thus far)
Last year's line was very solid, with Mack in it. Greco was excellent, and Schwartz was no slouch. If someone wants to replace Schwartz, they'd better be *very* good. Which is fine by me of course, just means our line gets better.
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Interesting that in the poll last year's starting duo of Greco/Schwartz was leading by only 4 %age points over Erving/Bowie (28% vs 24% of votes cast thus far)
Last year's line was very solid, with Mack in it. Greco was excellent, and Schwartz was no slouch. If someone wants to replace Schwartz, they'd better be *very* good. Which is fine by me of course, just means our line gets better.
Last year's line was very solid, with Mack in it. Greco was excellent, and Schwartz was no slouch. If someone wants to replace Schwartz, they'd better be *very* good. Which is fine by me of course, just means our line gets better.
And what I like best is that it brings out that competition to start that Pettine bases this team on. It can only make us better than last year.
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Last year's line was very solid, with Mack in it. Greco was excellent, and Schwartz was no slouch. If someone wants to replace Schwartz, they'd better be *very* good. Which is fine by me of course, just means our line gets better.
And what I like best is that it brings out that competition to start that Pettine bases this team on. It can only make us better than last year.
And what I like best is that it brings out that competition to start that Pettine bases this team on. It can only make us better than last year.
Another thing to note - although it's great that JT hasn't missed a snap and is currently being fitted for a gold jacket and a bust, as we saw with Mack, there's nothing to say his every-snap streak won't end on snap 1 of the pre-season even. For the first time in basically ever, we have someone in Erving who can actually do a reasonable job covering.
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Interesting that in the poll last year's starting duo of Greco/Schwartz was leading by only 4 %age points over Erving/Bowie (28% vs 24% of votes cast thus far)
Interesting that in the poll last year's starting duo of Greco/Schwartz was leading by only 4 %age points over Erving/Bowie (28% vs 24% of votes cast thus far)
Interesting AND surprising....24% want to replace 2 veteran players who performed really well with 2 unproven players with little or no experience?......Ok......
And what I like best is that it brings out that competition to start that Pettine bases this team on. It can only make us better than last year.
.....love the depth and the competition all over the place.....so much better than players just winning the job by default, just because they're the only ones who can almost play.....
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And what I like best is that it brings out that competition to start that Pettine bases this team on. It can only make us better than last year.
Another thing to note - although it's great that JT hasn't missed a snap and is currently being fitted for a gold jacket and a bust, as we saw with Mack, there's nothing to say his every-snap streak won't end on snap 1 of the pre-season even. For the first time in basically ever, we have someone in Erving who can actually do a reasonable job covering.
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Shhhhhhhhhush!!!!......better take that back....otherwise, if it happens, its on you buddy.....
If it happens, come back here and I'll apologize
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So, if somebody has to fill in for Joe Thomas, GOD FORBID,...
who would it be?
Irving, I suppose. I don't see where Bowie ever played LT.
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They're working Irving there right now, so Id think he's the logical choice.....but Id also say Bitonio would be a decent option...
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Ding Ding Ding...
Bito was clearly our best LT option last year had a non-Thomas need arose
This is just your opinion based on observation and last year's preseason right? Or did Bitonio actually play there a few plays during the season?
Regardless, why not, then, start him at RT?
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This is just your opinion based on observation and last year's preseason right? Or did Bitonio actually play there a few plays during the season?
Regardless, why not, then, start him at RT?
Bito didnt play there, but is the only other true OT on the team, so he would have been the logical back up last season. In re to playing RT, I think they feel he's a great guard, but would only be average at tackle.....plus...if he played RT, then we'd only have about the same level of play at that position, while having a huge drop off at LG......(cause, then, who would play there?)....
Ha!.....poor Mitchell Schwartz....never missed a single play in his whole career....ranked in the top 1/2 of the league.....yet everyone wants him to be replaced......
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Schwartz has a tough job. He plays right tackle opposite arguably the best LT in the
entire NFL. So the major pass rushers have to go to his side to have much of a chance
to stop plays. He's had his struggles, but he's also played well.
the other problem was the lack of receivers who can get off the line and get open quickly,
big enough to see on slants. I think that problem is fixed. Hoyer had to roll out so often
defenses started going out to where he was going in the roll out. Not good.
I can't wait til this offense take the field. The whole team. I don't see major weaknesses
in the first and second string talent like before. And I don't really care that we didn't get
a "superstar" qb. We know the left side of the excellent oline... my guess is, that Cam-Schwartz
sounds better than Greco-Cam. Maybe Schwartz had the "sophomore blues". I wouldn't discount
him staying at RT. With the upgrade of talent, and a qb with a stronger zip on the ball, more experience
starting,... Greco's experience is still worth it's weight in gold if Cam isn't quite ready to start.
But he might be ready. Cool situation. It will help that Duke is going to terrorize defenses, imho.
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Schwartz has a tough job. He plays right tackle opposite arguably the best LT in the
entire NFL. So the major pass rushers have to go to his side to have much of a chance
to stop plays. He's had his struggles, but he's also played well.
the other problem was the lack of receivers who can get off the line and get open quickly,
big enough to see on slants. I think that problem is fixed. Hoyer had to roll out so often
defenses started going out to where he was going in the roll out. Not good.
I can't wait til this offense take the field. The whole team. I don't see major weaknesses
in the first and second string talent like before. And I don't really care that we didn't get
a "superstar" qb. We know the left side of the excellent oline... my guess is, that Cam-Schwartz
sounds better than Greco-Cam. Maybe Schwartz had the "sophomore blues". I wouldn't discount
him staying at RT. With the upgrade of talent, and a qb with a stronger zip on the ball, more experience
starting,... Greco's experience is still worth it's weight in gold if Cam isn't quite ready to start.
But he might be ready. Cool situation. It will help that Duke is going to terrorize defenses, imho.
Schwartz has a tough job. He plays right tackle opposite arguably the best LT in the
entire NFL. So the major pass rushers have to go to his side to have much of a chance
to stop plays. He's had his struggles, but he's also played well.
the other problem was the lack of receivers who can get off the line and get open quickly,
big enough to see on slants. I think that problem is fixed. Hoyer had to roll out so often
defenses started going out to where he was going in the roll out. Not good.
I can't wait til this offense take the field. The whole team. I don't see major weaknesses
in the first and second string talent like before. And I don't really care that we didn't get
a "superstar" qb. We know the left side of the excellent oline... my guess is, that Cam-Schwartz
sounds better than Greco-Cam. Maybe Schwartz had the "sophomore blues". I wouldn't discount
him staying at RT. With the upgrade of talent, and a qb with a stronger zip on the ball, more experience
starting,... Greco's experience is still worth it's weight in gold if Cam isn't quite ready to start.
But he might be ready. Cool situation. It will help that Duke is going to terrorize defenses, imho.
This right here. Having small, shifty, slot receivers is cool and all - but a big bodied pass catcher that can use a tall frame to shield the defender away is a damn nice thing to have.
Our oline situation is pretty damn awesome. We have 3 pro bowlers on the left side of the line, a top 10 guard on the right and another upper tier tackle on the right. Name me the last time the Browns had, across the board, this much talent up front. It's been a while.
When the run game picks up where it left off, there will be a ton of high percentage throws and calculated deep shots that will open up for McCown.
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This is just your opinion based on observation and last year's preseason right? Or did Bitonio actually play there a few plays during the season?
Regardless, why not, then, start him at RT?
Bito didnt play there, but is the only other true OT on the team, so he would have been the logical back up last season. In re to playing RT, I think they feel he's a great guard, but would only be average at tackle.....plus...if he played RT, then we'd only have about the same level of play at that position, while having a huge drop off at LG......(cause, then, who would play there?)....
Ha!.....poor Mitchell Schwartz....never missed a single play in his whole career....ranked in the top 1/2 of the league.....yet everyone wants him to be replaced......
Bito didnt play there, but is the only other true OT on the team, so he would have been the logical back up last season. In re to playing RT, I think they feel he's a great guard, but would only be average at tackle.....plus...if he played RT, then we'd only have about the same level of play at that position, while having a huge drop off at LG......(cause, then, who would play there?)....
Ha!.....poor Mitchell Schwartz....never missed a single play in his whole career....ranked in the top 1/2 of the league.....yet everyone wants him to be replaced......
... and undeniably the weakest link compared to our other starting four. Hey! Someone has to be... but Mitch always has had Z's love to see him through.
Exactly right on Bito... he was an easy call last year. Bito's combination of athleticism and technique rocketed him to third place behind Joe and Mack. The only thing he lacks is height and reach to be a great LT... make that height as surprisingly Joe lacks the "required" arm length as well... lol...
Player .......... Ht / Arm Length / 3-cone / Shuttle
Joe Thomas .. : 6'6.5 / 32-1/2 / 7.95 / 4.84 https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=ie7&q=joel+bitonio+combine+results&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7TSNF_en&gws_rd=ssl#q=joe+thomas+nfl+combine+results+arm+length
Joel Bitonio .... : 6'4.2 / 33-7/8 / 7.37 / 4.44 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/joel-bitonio?id=2543737
Cam Eving ..... : 6'5.4 / 34-1/8 / 7.48 / 4.63 http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/cameron-erving?id=2552240
Mitch Schwartz: 6'5.3 / 33-1/2 / 7.86 / 4.87 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mitchell-schwartz?id=2532945
Michael Bowie : 6'4.5 / 31-1/2 / 8.06 / 4.84 http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=90268&draftyear=2013&genpos=ot
Like I said, Cam makes it more interesting this year.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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