Worst Case Scenario
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Just wish to preface this topic by saying that I believe in this team, its coaching staff and its direction. I think the Browns are on the rise.
This hypothetical is just as unlikely to me as the Browns dominating the league this year... But I'm throwing it out there anyway.
If the Browns have a disaster season this year. If McCown maybe gets hurt or is awful and the young/old guys added to the roster prove to be too young/old to have the success we expect them to. We see another 4 win or less season with a couple of embarrassing losses at home...
...What happens to the optimism? Will you as a fan stand by Farmer/Pettine? Do you have the patience to potentially witness the same results the year AFTER this simply because you BELIEVE in the direction of "Play Like a Brown"? And even if you do, do you think Haslam will share that patience?
I ask this because most of what I see out there as far as predictions go - people don't like this team. They don't like the coaching staff, they don't like the lack of skill players. They discount what was brought in in free agency. They look at the schedule and see a team that is dead in the water. Really, the only distinctly positive people out there about the Cleveland Browns, are Cleveland Browns fans.
I think they're wrong. But what if they're not? Where do you think we go from there?
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No matter what, I will still be a Browns' Fan.
The passion from ownership on down is clear. The improvement in talent is also clear as is the support of the overall Fan base.
I have heard complaints of us hiring a rookie Head Coach. The alternative was to hire an "experienced" candidate....."experienced" at being mediocre! I'll take Pettine ANY day.
I never predict our record, but I do expect to see positive progress. I think we will.
I'm all in with these guys & I think Haslam is too. Only time will tell, but whatever time it takes, I'll be there as long as I'm still kicking.
Mike
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Just wish to preface this topic by saying that I believe in this team, its coaching staff and its direction. I think the Browns are on the rise.
This hypothetical is just as unlikely to me as the Browns dominating the league this year... But I'm throwing it out there anyway.
If the Browns have a disaster season this year. If McCown maybe gets hurt or is awful and the young/old guys added to the roster prove to be too young/old to have the success we expect them to. We see another 4 win or less season with a couple of embarrassing losses at home...
...What happens to the optimism? Will you as a fan stand by Farmer/Pettine? Do you have the patience to potentially witness the same results the year AFTER this simply because you BELIEVE in the direction of "Play Like a Brown"? And even if you do, do you think Haslam will share that patience?
I ask this because most of what I see out there as far as predictions go - people don't like this team. They don't like the coaching staff, they don't like the lack of skill players. They discount what was brought in in free agency. They look at the schedule and see a team that is dead in the water. Really, the only distinctly positive people out there about the Cleveland Browns, are Cleveland Browns fans.
I think they're wrong. But what if they're not? Where do you think we go from there?
If the Browns have a disaster season this year. If McCown maybe gets hurt or is awful and the young/old guys added to the roster prove to be too young/old to have the success we expect them to. We see another 4 win or less season with a couple of embarrassing losses at home...
...What happens to the optimism? Will you as a fan stand by Farmer/Pettine? Do you have the patience to potentially witness the same results the year AFTER this simply because you BELIEVE in the direction of "Play Like a Brown"? And even if you do, do you think Haslam will share that patience?
I ask this because most of what I see out there as far as predictions go - people don't like this team. They don't like the coaching staff, they don't like the lack of skill players. They discount what was brought in in free agency. They look at the schedule and see a team that is dead in the water. Really, the only distinctly positive people out there about the Cleveland Browns, are Cleveland Browns fans.
I think they're wrong. But what if they're not? Where do you think we go from there?
Id start by saying it all depends on "why" they are bad. If McCown and/or some other key players get hurt, then that would be a lot different than the team just being bad or poorly coached(Pettine)....or a lack of talent(Farmer).....
And of course Id still be a fan!!!......if I stopped being a fan because they went 4-12, then I wasnt REALLY a fan to begin with....more of a follower or something....plus, If I leave at 4-12, then I woulda shoulda been gone years ago, right?
And, yes, I would stand behind Pettine and Farmer if that transpired(injuries). Thats what being a fan is....backing up your team(including the coaches and the GM)....AND understanding "why" they're bad. Some just have a need to blame someone, when it could just be some unfortunate injuries that cause the problems....
Now, if they are healthy and suddenly just turn into a disorganized mess(which I dont see as being likely), then I would have to re-evaluate Pettine and his staff....but there is nothing to date that would indicate Pettine will suddenly forget how to coach or turn into a dummy....
And, to me, Farmer has acquired more talent in 2 years, than the Browns have in the last 15 years. I think Haslem would be a fool to fire him.....no matter what the 2015 final record is.....
Bottom line....boils down to expectations.....in other words, THIS YEAR there are high expectations...why?....because Farmer has us loaded with talent and Pettine has the team believing and playing better....and in your words - "it would be a disaster to go 4-12"...why?...because Farmer has us loaded with talent and Pettine has the team believing and playing better.....
and a few years ago that wasn't the case....4-12 WAS the expectation....which establishes that the team is better now than it was then.....which means Farmer and Pettine are doing their jobs......
In re to the national pundits...they just copy what everybody else writes and pretty much favor "last years" best teams and down grade "last years" bad teams....then act all amazed when one rises.....
Last year they said we would suck....by the mid point they were all raving and saying the Browns are on the rise and one of the surprise better teams.....then we lost a few and they said "same old Browns".....no critical thinking involved, just group think based upon a far away perspective.....If ANYONE knows a lot about the Browns, it would most likely be someone close to the situation and not some guy in NY or LA who has to know about all 32 teams....
4-12?......ha!.....aint gonna happen....
GO BROWNS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Just wish to preface this topic by saying that I believe in this team, its coaching staff and its direction. I think the Browns are on the rise.
This hypothetical is just as unlikely to me as the Browns dominating the league this year... But I'm throwing it out there anyway.
If the Browns have a disaster season this year. If McCown maybe gets hurt or is awful and the young/old guys added to the roster prove to be too young/old to have the success we expect them to. We see another 4 win or less season with a couple of embarrassing losses at home...
...What happens to the optimism? Will you as a fan stand by Farmer/Pettine? Do you have the patience to potentially witness the same results the year AFTER this simply because you BELIEVE in the direction of "Play Like a Brown"? And even if you do, do you think Haslam will share that patience?
I ask this because most of what I see out there as far as predictions go - people don't like this team. They don't like the coaching staff, they don't like the lack of skill players. They discount what was brought in in free agency. They look at the schedule and see a team that is dead in the water. Really, the only distinctly positive people out there about the Cleveland Browns, are Cleveland Browns fans.
I think they're wrong. But what if they're not? Where do you think we go from there?
Just wish to preface this topic by saying that I believe in this team, its coaching staff and its direction. I think the Browns are on the rise.
I ask this because most of what I see out there as far as predictions go - people don't like this team. They don't like the coaching staff, they don't like the lack of skill players. They discount what was brought in in free agency. They look at the schedule and see a team that is dead in the water. Really, the only distinctly positive people out there about the Cleveland Browns, are Cleveland Browns fans.
Are you reading people that are dialed into this team or are you reading people that need attention that real life isn't giving them?
A lot of guys (especially draft nits that dominate some of the other message boards) have a habit of rooting for their predictions to come to fruition even to the extent of rooting against players/coaches joining this team. They corner themselves beyond the point of no return way before it's even necessary. I don't see that in here from the passionate group that ONLY cares about Cleveland winning. Tour and I have had our WWWF disagreements; but he also epitomizes why there isn't a better place to be talking Cleveland Browns. His pre-draft research is extensive and his analysis is honest. He doesn't always tell us what we want to hear - he Joe Fridays the truth. Many others do this too so it's great place to be all year long.
I've read other message boards where anyone excited about this team feels about as welcome as the Mexicutioner (Donald Trump) feels today with a specific portion of immigrants. Stay here and talk football with people that LOVE the Browns; so you can appreciate where the depth of passion leads us in the daily mix. You'll get better research, up-to-date news and a better appreciation of our franchise history.
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nice post flugel
McCown will be fine. Giving this dude a line like this, he has to be licking his chops. He can wing it down the field, he just was on a horrendous Tampa squad -
If we go 4-12. All new staff. They draft Cardale. Win over a large portion of the Browns fan base and pick up a high potential pick at the highest need position. And we start all over...
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nice post flugel
McCown will be fine. Giving this dude a line like this, he has to be licking his chops. He can wing it down the field, he just was on a horrendous Tampa squadnice post flugel
McCown will be fine. Giving this dude a line like this, he has to be licking his chops. He can wing it down the field, he just was on a horrendous Tampa squad
Thanks man! There's definitely been years to worry about more snake bites and what we're bringing to the table; but this isn't one of them.
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If the Browns have a disaster season this year. If McCown maybe gets hurt or is awful and the young/old guys added to the roster prove to be too young/old to have the success we expect them to. We see another 4 win or less season with a couple of embarrassing losses at home...
...What happens to the optimism? Will you as a fan stand by Farmer/Pettine? Do you have the patience to potentially witness the same results the year AFTER this simply because you BELIEVE in the direction of "Play Like a Brown"? And even if you do, do you think Haslam will share that patience?
I ask this because most of what I see out there as far as predictions go - people don't like this team. They don't like the coaching staff, they don't like the lack of skill players. They discount what was brought in in free agency. They look at the schedule and see a team that is dead in the water. Really, the only distinctly positive people out there about the Cleveland Browns, are Cleveland Browns fans.
I think they're wrong. But what if they're not? Where do you think we go from there?
Id start by saying it all depends on "why" they are bad. If McCown and/or some other key players get hurt, then that would be a lot different than the team just being bad or poorly coached(Pettine)....or a lack of talent(Farmer).....
And of course Id still be a fan!!!......if I stopped being a fan because they went 4-12, then I wasnt REALLY a fan to begin with....more of a follower or something....plus, If I leave at 4-12, then I woulda shoulda been gone years ago, right?
And, yes, I would stand behind Pettine and Farmer if that transpired(injuries). Thats what being a fan is....backing up your team(including the coaches and the GM)....AND understanding "why" they're bad. Some just have a need to blame someone, when it could just be some unfortunate injuries that cause the problems....
Now, if they are healthy and suddenly just turn into a disorganized mess(which I dont see as being likely), then I would have to re-evaluate Pettine and his staff....but there is nothing to date that would indicate Pettine will suddenly forget how to coach or turn into a dummy....
And, to me, Farmer has acquired more talent in 2 years, than the Browns have in the last 15 years. I think Haslem would be a fool to fire him.....no matter what the 2015 final record is.....
Bottom line....boils down to expectations.....in other words, THIS YEAR there are high expectations...why?....because Farmer has us loaded with talent and Pettine has the team believing and playing better....and in your words - "it would be a disaster to go 4-12"...why?...because Farmer has us loaded with talent and Pettine has the team believing and playing better.....
and a few years ago that wasn't the case....4-12 WAS the expectation....which establishes that the team is better now than it was then.....which means Farmer and Pettine are doing their jobs......
In re to the national pundits...they just copy what everybody else writes and pretty much favor "last years" best teams and down grade "last years" bad teams....then act all amazed when one rises.....
Last year they said we would suck....by the mid point they were all raving and saying the Browns are on the rise and one of the surprise better teams.....then we lost a few and they said "same old Browns".....no critical thinking involved, just group think based upon a far away perspective.....If ANYONE knows a lot about the Browns, it would most likely be someone close to the situation and not some guy in NY or LA who has to know about all 32 teams....
4-12?......ha!.....aint gonna happen....
GO BROWNS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In re to the national pundits...they just copy what everybody else writes and pretty much favor "last years" best teams and down grade "last years" bad teams....then act all amazed when one rises.....
for real.
has anyone ever been so flippin bored and not done anything all day except watch espn? this is how it works: mike and mike come on at 6am and they have a list of topics that they talk about, debate with each other and guest pundits. then following mike and mike it's 'first take', which is simply the worse show ever created with two blowhards, one from ny and one from tx(?). they basically take the mike and mike topics throw them in a bucket mix them up and then rehash everything they said with their little spin on it. same guests that were on mike and mike are there and they all have the same opinions. so if someone at 6am say "i don't think the browns will do anything this year" at 5:30 pm on PTI some fat fuck is going to say the same exact thing.
nothing is original and they all follow each other like lemmings. when the browns finally do turn the corner, there will be a LOT of crow to eat on that and many other networks and i for one will be there to make sure they eat every bite.
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As one of the more objective Browns fans here with no real fanatical Browns background, I only know what I see. And what I see is a team building the right way without trying to make the splashy "instant cure" trade or draft pick. They do their homework and bring in players they think will help them in the long run instead of chasing rainbows. And they do this while looking at the chess board to see what piece they can add to the whole to make it a strong position not easily broken. Sure it takes longer, but it also will be stronger year by year. This year's team will be better than last and 2016 even better. Any truly great team builds that way.
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As one of the more objective Browns fans here with no real fanatical Browns background, I only know what I see. And what I see is a team building the right way without trying to make the splashy "instant cure" trade or draft pick. They do their homework and bring in players they think will help them in the long run instead of chasing rainbows. And they do this while looking at the chess board to see what piece they can add to the whole to make it a strong position not easily broken. Sure it takes longer, but it also will be stronger year by year. This year's team will be better than last and 2016 even better. Any truly great team builds that way.
As one of the more objective Browns fans here with no real fanatical Browns background, I only know what I see. And what I see is a team building the right way without trying to make the splashy "instant cure" trade or draft pick. They do their homework and bring in players they think will help them in the long run instead of chasing rainbows. And they do this while looking at the chess board to see what piece they can add to the whole to make it a strong position not easily broken. Sure it takes longer, but it also will be stronger year by year. This year's team will be better than last and 2016 even better. Any truly great team builds that way.
Well, the Browns have tried the "flashy pick" obviously by taking your boy JFF...and picking up Pryor......but beyond that , the rest of their draft from that year and this past year plus other moves seem to based on exactly what you say.....building the base defense and offense. Maybe a few misses can occur....maybe JFF was one of those, maybe Gilbert. But overall, I agree, I see a "team building" pattern going on.
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As one of the more objective Browns fans here with no real fanatical Browns background, I only know what I see. And what I see is a team building the right way without trying to make the splashy "instant cure" trade or draft pick. They do their homework and bring in players they think will help them in the long run instead of chasing rainbows. And they do this while looking at the chess board to see what piece they can add to the whole to make it a strong position not easily broken. Sure it takes longer, but it also will be stronger year by year. This year's team will be better than last and 2016 even better. Any truly great team builds that way.
Well, the Browns have tried the "flashy pick" obviously by taking your boy JFF...and picking up Pryor......but beyond that , the rest of their draft from that year and this past year plus other moves seem to based on exactly what you say.....building the base defense and offense. Maybe a few misses can occur....maybe JFF was one of those, maybe Gilbert. But overall, I agree, I see a "team building" pattern going on.
Well, the Browns have tried the "flashy pick" obviously by taking your boy JFF...and picking up Pryor......but beyond that , the rest of their draft from that year and this past year plus other moves seem to based on exactly what you say.....building the base defense and offense. Maybe a few misses can occur....maybe JFF was one of those, maybe Gilbert. But overall, I agree, I see a "team building" pattern going on.
I have faith the Pettine has been around the block a few times and knew exactly what he was getting in Manziel. If you trust him with everything else why not trust him with that. Most longtime NFL coaches know it takes years, not months, to develop a real NFL QB. He knew JF would be a handful and he also knew the kid is highly motivated to be the best even to the point of realizing he had to change his lifestyle. What else would explain why he let Hoyer go for a guy willing to mentor? If he really thought JM was a loser he'd have cut bait early on and kept Hoyer. If I have learned anything about Pettine it's that he is unafraid to make choices he feels work best for the team in the long run.
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Well, the Browns have tried the "flashy pick" obviously by taking your boy JFF...and picking up Pryor......but beyond that , the rest of their draft from that year and this past year plus other moves seem to based on exactly what you say.....building the base defense and offense. Maybe a few misses can occur....maybe JFF was one of those, maybe Gilbert. But overall, I agree, I see a "team building" pattern going on.
I have faith the Pettine has been around the block a few times and knew exactly what he was getting in Manziel. If you trust him with everything else why not trust him with that. Most longtime NFL coaches know it takes years, not months, to develop a real NFL QB. He knew JF would be a handful and he also knew the kid is highly motivated to be the best even to the point of realizing he had to change his lifestyle. What else would explain why he let Hoyer go for a guy willing to mentor? If he really thought JM was a loser he'd have cut bait early on and kept Hoyer. If I have learned anything about Pettine it's that he is unafraid to make choices he feels work best for the team in the long run.
I have faith the Pettine has been around the block a few times and knew exactly what he was getting in Manziel. If you trust him with everything else why not trust him with that. Most longtime NFL coaches know it takes years, not months, to develop a real NFL QB. He knew JF would be a handful and he also knew the kid is highly motivated to be the best even to the point of realizing he had to change his lifestyle. What else would explain why he let Hoyer go for a guy willing to mentor? If he really thought JM was a loser he'd have cut bait early on and kept Hoyer. If I have learned anything about Pettine it's that he is unafraid to make choices he feels work best for the team in the long run.
Remains to be seen. First off, JMZ was Haslam's choice, not necessarily Pettine's or Farmers. And a first round pick was invested in him, so that investment isn't going to be shunted to the side offhandedly. Yes, they will try to see if the JMZ thing can work....though I don't think they are putting all their eggs in that basket. The philosophy is: we will get a steady veteran hand....see if he can mentor JFF....but, in the meantime we will build this team up around that position to make it the best it can be....then plug in the right cherry on top, be that JMZ or someone else.
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Is there any actual evidence it was Haslam's pick?
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Is there any actual evidence it was Haslam's pick?
Of course not. Just internet bullshit.
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Part of a worst-case scenario might be Danny Shelton out for the season which I assume is internet bullshit.
WSS
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Well, the Browns have tried the "flashy pick" obviously by taking your boy JFF...and picking up Pryor......but beyond that , the rest of their draft from that year and this past year plus other moves seem to based on exactly what you say.....building the base defense and offense. Maybe a few misses can occur....maybe JFF was one of those, maybe Gilbert. But overall, I agree, I see a "team building" pattern going on.
I have faith the Pettine has been around the block a few times and knew exactly what he was getting in Manziel. If you trust him with everything else why not trust him with that. Most longtime NFL coaches know it takes years, not months, to develop a real NFL QB. He knew JF would be a handful and he also knew the kid is highly motivated to be the best even to the point of realizing he had to change his lifestyle. What else would explain why he let Hoyer go for a guy willing to mentor? If he really thought JM was a loser he'd have cut bait early on and kept Hoyer. If I have learned anything about Pettine it's that he is unafraid to make choices he feels work best for the team in the long run.
I have faith the Pettine has been around the block a few times and knew exactly what he was getting in Manziel. If you trust him with everything else why not trust him with that. Most longtime NFL coaches know it takes years, not months, to develop a real NFL QB. He knew JF would be a handful and he also knew the kid is highly motivated to be the best even to the point of realizing he had to change his lifestyle. What else would explain why he let Hoyer go for a guy willing to mentor? If he really thought JM was a loser he'd have cut bait early on and kept Hoyer. If I have learned anything about Pettine it's that he is unafraid to make choices he feels work best for the team in the long run.
I like your statement & especially the 2 sentences I highlighted. Johnny & Pettine have both shown me they share the qualities of pride & determination. I have a lot of faith in both as those 2 qualities are either there or they aren't. Without them, you're very limited. With them, the sky's the limit.
Mike
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As one of the more objective Browns fans here with no real fanatical Browns background, I only know what I see. And what I see is a team building the right way without trying to make the splashy "instant cure" trade or draft pick. They do their homework and bring in players they think will help them in the long run instead of chasing rainbows. And they do this while looking at the chess board to see what piece they can add to the whole to make it a strong position not easily broken. Sure it takes longer, but it also will be stronger year by year. This year's team will be better than last and 2016 even better. Any truly great team builds that way.
As one of the more objective Browns fans here with no real fanatical Browns background, I only know what I see. And what I see is a team building the right way without trying to make the splashy "instant cure" trade or draft pick. They do their homework and bring in players they think will help them in the long run instead of chasing rainbows. And they do this while looking at the chess board to see what piece they can add to the whole to make it a strong position not easily broken. Sure it takes longer, but it also will be stronger year by year. This year's team will be better than last and 2016 even better. Any truly great team builds that way.
Another very well stated post. In a rather short statement, you've said it all.
Thank you!
Mike
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4-12 may be a better scenario than 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7, honestly.
I'd rather less than 5 wins or more than 9. That middle section does a team no good. You're rarely good enough to make the playoffs, but likely picking in the 6-14 range.
Playoffs or a shot at the best quarterback in the 2016 draft. That's my goal for the Browns this year.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
4-12 may be a better scenario than 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7, honestly.
I'd rather less than 5 wins or more than 9. That middle section does a team no good. You're rarely good enough to make the playoffs, but likely picking in the 6-14 range.
Playoffs or a shot at the best quarterback in the 2016 draft. That's my goal for the Browns this year.
4-12 may be a better scenario than 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7, honestly.
I'd rather less than 5 wins or more than 9. That middle section does a team no good. You're rarely good enough to make the playoffs, but likely picking in the 6-14 range.
Playoffs or a shot at the best quarterback in the 2016 draft. That's my goal for the Browns this year.
throwing a records prediction in with a scenario of picking the best qb next year is kinda reaching. first off we're all just guessing about the record and second who knows who will be the next golden-boy flame-out 'franchise' qb next year?
i'd never substitute wins for a shot at a draft pick. you lose faith in the fanbase and it's just a shitty way of going about things. the only team that has 'won' in the draft by doing this is the colts and they still haven't done shit. hell we almost and should have beat them last year and we were sportin brian hoyer so...............
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I pushed all of my chips to the center of the table for Pettine and Farmer quite a while ago. I like what I see and I see what I like: that they're building the team from the inside out; that they're willing to forgo splashy WR's and, instead, go with guys that can actually catch the ball; that they're walking the walk with regards to having the players on the field that have earned it in practice, regardless of where they were drafted; that they are building a bully-mentality on both sides of the ball; and that they want to sledgehammer their opponent's teeth in with a running game, control the clock, and dare their opponents to score.
Let's not forget that this is a rebuilding project. So far, I'm very pleased with the progress that Farmer and Pettine have shown. The Browns organization has been in shambles for over a decade, but under the Farmer/Pettine regime I sense a change for the better. Farmer has made several shrewd player acquisitions, and Pettine has blended a few stars, a few veteran free agents, and a bunch of young talent into a team that can beat any opponent on any given Sunday.
I sense a new spirit, a more competitive attitude, a team that will explode - and the "pundits" will be eating CROWELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO BROWNS!!!
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