Jonathan Paul Manziel
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This is an article from last year I thought is an interesting read on how difficult it is for NFL teams to get a franchise quarterback although Browns fans have first hand experience in knowing about that:
NFL Scouts Have No Clue How to Predict the Next Great Quarterback
Research indicates that the factors that make college football players early-round draft picks are useless at predicting success in the NFL.
Name 3 Pro style QB offenses in college, Am Sold. So done with small spread option QB's not named Cam. Cordell Jones by homerism?
Name 3 Pro style QB offenses in college, Am Sold. So done with small spread option QB's not named Cam. Cordell Jones by homerism?
The key thing to remember about Manziel was he wasn't used like RG3 in college. A lot of his success came from plays designed to pass out of a pocket - not too much different than Fran Tarkenton. IMO, the worst thing you can do with either guy is race him over to 1 edge of formation immediately after the snap; and close down your passing tree into 1 small third of the field. Nick Saban would have given Kevin Sumlin candy and flowers if they eliminated the guessing game of which side of the pocket Manziel could escape from and threw their passing game into a phone both. Come to think of it, the impressive pass rushes of Dallas and the LA Rams would have loved it if Minnesota did that with Tarkenton.
I enjoy your football posts, intellect and perspectives so I'm not telling you how to think as much as I'm cautioning to try evaluate every QB rather than their system. There was a time when all of the Tedford QBs/Tedford Wives were a no-no until Aaron Rodgers broke the trend that Trent Dilfer seemed incapable of. That said, I wonder how much the system stereotype contributed to why he fell all the way to 23rd or 24th overall with the skill set he sports every week. Before that, BYU had a lot of guys like Marc Wilson, Ty Detmer and Robbie Boscoe that trained people to think that system was incapable of turning out someone like Steve Young or Jim McMahon. What I'm getting at here is the teams that knew what they were looking for in a QB had to have the ability to see more than just a system in order to land the right guys or exceptions to the system rule.
As for the spread offenses, Donovan McNabb came out of a Veer Option at SU where his first OC was our current Assistant Line Coach George DeLeone. Of all the QBs in that 99 draft class, he was the least overwhelmed, most successful and had the longest career. What paved the way for Andy Reid to be intrigued with him was Brett Favre came out of a very similar offense at So Miss after rushing for over 3500 yards in high school for his father. Not everyone knew what was going to come of Jerry Glanville's 2nd round draft pick. I don't what style of offense Alcorn State had for Steve McNair who piled up a ton of rushing yards; but he impressed me as a Pro QB too. The spread offense worries go all the way back to Roger Staubach with someone as football brilliant as Tom Landry wondering if it would ever translate before he finally realized his QB was so special - he had no choice. I've been hearing this type of QB is going to extinct in the NFL since the 70s. Then we got to the 80s, 90s, new millenium, and beyond 2010.
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Frugel, In 1 sentence " The worst thing you can do with any QB is race him over to one edge of formation immediately after the snap; and close down your passing tree into 1 small third of the field". Damn we see the same game and that's a 1/4 plus of fixing Johnny closer to a Fran or R. Wilson at their size. Hope to see that game plan or habit gone out of his game.
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The argument for JM over McCown. Agree or disagree and why?
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The argument for JM over McCown. Agree or disagree and why?
The argument for JM over McCown. Agree or disagree and why?
Disagree. Manziel's rookie year was a wash due to off the field issues. This means that year two for him should be his learning year if he wants to become the starting QB. Let him learn under McCown and revisit it next year. If Manziel can somehow prove himself to be a better QB in training camp than McCown then you start him. Otherwise, go with the teacher and let the student have a year to learn.
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The argument for JM over McCown. Agree or disagree and why?
The argument for JM over McCown. Agree or disagree and why?
Disagree, and correct me if I am wrong, but there is no QB controversy this year, it's McCown's team.
Manziel's rookie year set him back and now he's an apprentice to a guy who has been handpicked to be the starter.
Hopefully Manziel has a nice preseason, separates himself from Thad and Shaw, and is competent enough to take over if McCown gets injured.
Zombo
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The argument for JM over McCown. Agree or disagree and why?
The argument for JM over McCown. Agree or disagree and why?
yep....completely disagree.....
Honestly...and without being a hater....Im wondering if he's even good enough to be #2(without the need to carry a third as security).....
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The argument for JM over McCown. Agree or disagree and why?
The argument for JM over McCown. Agree or disagree and why?
I clicked on the link, scrolled down a bit, and my eyes were immediately drawn to "Johnny Manziel is the Browns' best hope". I was instantly overcome by grief and sadness, which quickly turned into nausea.
So yea, it's fair to say I disagree.
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Safe to say that you had a "gut reaction"?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The argument for JM over McCown. Agree or disagree and why?
I clicked on the link, scrolled down a bit, and my eyes were immediately drawn to "Johnny Manziel is the Browns' best hope". I was instantly overcome by grief and sadness, which quickly turned into nausea.
So yea, it's fair to say I disagree.
I clicked on the link, scrolled down a bit, and my eyes were immediately drawn to "Johnny Manziel is the Browns' best hope". I was instantly overcome by grief and sadness, which quickly turned into nausea.
So yea, it's fair to say I disagree.
Well if you had heard Kevin Gilbride on NFL Network this morning then you would have been hospitalized. He said that at some point the O under McCown will bog down to the point that they will have to bring in JF as the starter "to provide a spark". He apparently agrees with this article that it's just not going to be workable with McCown as QB.
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I clicked on the link, scrolled down a bit, and my eyes were immediately drawn to "Johnny Manziel is the Browns' best hope". I was instantly overcome by grief and sadness, which quickly turned into nausea.
So yea, it's fair to say I disagree.
Well if you had heard Kevin Gilbride on NFL Network this morning then you would have been hospitalized. He said that at some point the O under McCown will bog down to the point that they will have to bring in JF as the starter "to provide a spark". He apparently agrees with this article that it's just not going to be workable with McCown as QB.
at some point the O under McCown will bog down to the point that they will have to bring in JF as the starter "to provide a spark". He apparently agrees with this article that it's just not going to be workable with McCown as QB.
It would be better if they predicted Johnny plays due to "Johnny" actually being good and earning the spot...... as opposed to saying Johnny plays just because McCown will be bad....
There is no comfort in this at all...
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I clicked on the link, scrolled down a bit, and my eyes were immediately drawn to "Johnny Manziel is the Browns' best hope". I was instantly overcome by grief and sadness, which quickly turned into nausea.
So yea, it's fair to say I disagree.
Well if you had heard Kevin Gilbride on NFL Network this morning then you would have been hospitalized. He said that at some point the O under McCown will bog down to the point that they will have to bring in JF as the starter "to provide a spark". He apparently agrees with this article that it's just not going to be workable with McCown as QB.
Well if you had heard Kevin Gilbride on NFL Network this morning then you would have been hospitalized. He said that at some point the O under McCown will bog down to the point that they will have to bring in JF as the starter "to provide a spark". He apparently agrees with this article that it's just not going to be workable with McCown as QB.
Don't start being Johnny Fags already, let us enjoy a training camp without a QB controversy. He'll get his day to prove himself.
Zombo
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i read the article this morning on nfl.com and it was definitely a rewrite of last year. same people that lauded manziel then are doing the same now as it is their last chance to get the kid some press and in their thoughts and prayers to put a worm inside the OCs brain that somehow dismisses years and years of seeing actual good play and just start manziel on some sort of whim. even if you had scrolled down to the remarks on the article it's the same guys that were praising manziel last doing it again.
"it's the browns only hope."
GTFO.
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Or you could take the completely cynical view and come full circle like this one.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2016charlie.php
"Josh McCown was good enough to get the Bucs the No. 1 pick in the 2015 NFL Draft, so perhaps he can do that for the Browns this year."
Makes about as much sense as writing off a guy with just a few quarters of football with one week practice with 1's who were by then a shadow of the starting team Hoyer began the season with.
Manziel 2.0 is a pretty good look at what he has to overcome from the perspective of two guys who had the same problem.
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Its still all about playing the QB that gives us the best chance to win on Sunday. As it proved out last year Hoyer was the best to start over Manziel. Next up Josh McCown. He no Andrew Luck yet. With Pet the best QB will start Sundays with no Text needed. Manziel wants the job WIN IT.
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Regardless of how McGown does, he is old and not very good. We need to plan accordingly.
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Report: Browns QB Johnny Manziel Tutored by Jon Gruden in Florida
According to Charlie Campbell of Walter Football, Cleveland Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel spent several days in Tampa Bay, Florida receiving tutoring from former NFL head coach and current Monday Night Football analyst Jon Gruden. Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon Journal provided a few more details from a source on Manziel's time with Gruden:Manziel's training with Gruden consisted of film study and on-field work. The sessions serve as the latest examples of Manziel showing more dedication to his job heading into his second NFL season than he did during his disastrous rookie campaign.Manziel and Gruden's relationship extends back to prior to last year's draft, when the pair were featured on "Gruden's QB Camp" on ESPN. It's encouraging that Manziel voluntarily took the initiative to hook up with Gruden again, as opposed to last year's offseason when he seemed more interested in living a social life during his time off.The commitment that Manziel is showing to improving is a positive, but at the end of the day, it doesn't mean that he's actually made strides as an NFL quarterback. He is not expected to be a contender for the starting quarterback position in camp this year, despite being up against a journeyman quarterback in Josh McCown. -
Gruden had said last season he would love a chance to coach JM. Johnny must have seen the interview and took him up on the offer.
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I'm not saying this is the case with McCown, but the notion that the best player is always starting is a myth on any team with any coach. Some guys are just gamers. Some hate practice. Some can't show some aspect of their game in practice (tackle breaking, tackling, physicality in general, etc.). Coaches lean one way. They'll favor "their" guys or experience or combine times or whatever. Contracts are another factor. The fact is that guys come off the bench and play just as well if not better all the time. You see this regularly at the RB position in the NFL with all the injuries.
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McCown will not take the Browns to a playoff game. They wasted 5 million on him. There was good quarterbacks later in the draft.
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