Ohio: The bandwagon state
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Here's a recent article listing the 10 best O linemen from last season and we have 2 of them(Bito & Thomas)......
No Stillers on the list.....though, 4 out of 10 are from our division.....
Here's a recent article listing the 10 best O linemen from last season and we have 2 of them(Bito & Thomas)......
No Stillers on the list.....though, 4 out of 10 are from our division.....
Although I'll give you credit for finding that it's just an opinion piece and if you read the part about your guard it says nothing about him that makes him so great. It's a start though.
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PFF grades the Browns line at 77.5 and the Stillers line at 42.5.....so there that(it's not even close really)
Thomas 33.5 vs Beachum 21.7
Bitonio 22.4 vs Foster -0.9
Mack 6.9 vs Pouncey 9.8 (note: w/o injury, mack would average out to 22.3)(much higher "per game" score)
Greco 14.2 vs Decastro 5.2
Schwartz 0.5 vs Gilbert 6.8....
So....reality is that Schwartz is the only one with a lower average score......and Bito, Thomas, Greco AND Mack score way way higher.....
Id say these are the most objective and thorough ratings available.....much more solid than just opinion....
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No, I'm trying to understand how you can say every GM would pick the Brown at every line position. You keep saying they're more talented and I'm asking you to quantify it instead of just saying it as if to think otherwise is stupid. If you said based on performance (some metric) the Browns line was better than the Steelers we could have and apples to apples discussion. You just keep saying they're better/more talented at every position as if it's not debatable.
Oh yeah, for clarification, they did run for more yards and with 50 fewer carries so there's that.
Oh yeah, for clarification, they did run for more yards and with 50 fewer carries so there's that.
Like I said "about the same"
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PFF grades the Browns line at 77.5 and the Stillers line at 42.5.....so there that(it's not even close really)
Thomas 33.5 vs Beachum 21.7
Bitonio 22.4 vs Foster -0.9
Mack 6.9 vs Pouncey 9.8 (note: w/o injury, mack would average out to 22.3)(much higher "per game" score)
Greco 14.2 vs Decastro 5.2
Schwartz 0.5 vs Gilbert 6.8....
So....reality is that Schwartz is the only one with a lower average score......and Bito, Thomas, Greco AND Mack score way way higher.....
Id say these are the most objective and thorough ratings available.....much more solid than just opinion....
PFF grades the Browns line at 77.5 and the Stillers line at 42.5.....so there that(it's not even close really)
Thomas 33.5 vs Beachum 21.7
Bitonio 22.4 vs Foster -0.9
Mack 6.9 vs Pouncey 9.8 (note: w/o injury, mack would average out to 22.3)(much higher "per game" score)
Greco 14.2 vs Decastro 5.2
Schwartz 0.5 vs Gilbert 6.8....
So....reality is that Schwartz is the only one with a lower average score......and Bito, Thomas, Greco AND Mack score way way higher.....
Id say these are the most objective and thorough ratings available.....much more solid than just opinion....
But I would not trade The Schwartz for Gilbert......would you?
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Irregardless isn't a word.
Irregardless isn't a word.
New words are created all the time.
Just call me "The Creator" if you would like.
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PFF grades the Browns line at 77.5 and the Stillers line at 42.5.....so there that(it's not even close really)
Thomas 33.5 vs Beachum 21.7
Bitonio 22.4 vs Foster -0.9
Mack 6.9 vs Pouncey 9.8 (note: w/o injury, mack would average out to 22.3)(much higher "per game" score)
Greco 14.2 vs Decastro 5.2
Schwartz 0.5 vs Gilbert 6.8....
So....reality is that Schwartz is the only one with a lower average score......and Bito, Thomas, Greco AND Mack score way way higher.....
Id say these are the most objective and thorough ratings available.....much more solid than just opinion....
But I would not trade The Schwartz for Gilbert......would you?
But I would not trade The Schwartz for Gilbert......would you?
I doubt it.....they have different strengths......Schwartz is a much stronger pass protector, while Gilbert is a stronger run blocker....
I guess, if I had to choose one, Id pick pass blocker because I want to protect my QB.....
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But I would not trade The Schwartz for Gilbert......would you?
I doubt it.....they have different strengths......Schwartz is a much stronger pass protector, while Gilbert is a stronger run blocker....
I guess, if I had to choose one, Id pick pass blocker because I want to protect my QB.....
I doubt it.....they have different strengths......Schwartz is a much stronger pass protector, while Gilbert is a stronger run blocker....
I guess, if I had to choose one, Id pick pass blocker because I want to protect my QB.....
Plus, Schwartz is a year younger and has never missed a snap, while Gilbert has missed 15 games to injury the past three years.
Zombo
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and, since they've been in the league, this is the first time Gilbert has a higher score than Schwartz(and this is Gilberts highest score ever and Schwartz' lowest).....so, historically, Schwartz has outscored Gilbert every year but 2014...in terms of points, play AND durability....
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So ... five for five then, and that doesn't include our first round draft pick.
Next ...
Zombo
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and, since they've been in the league, this is the first time Gilbert has a higher score than Schwartz(and this is Gilberts highest score ever and Schwartz' lowest).....so, historically, Schwartz has outscored Gilbert every year but 2014...in terms of points, play AND durability....
and, since they've been in the league, this is the first time Gilbert has a higher score than Schwartz(and this is Gilberts highest score ever and Schwartz' lowest).....so, historically, Schwartz has outscored Gilbert every year but 2014...in terms of points, play AND durability....
His entire career he has been better...because he is better. There it is.
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So ... five for five then, and that doesn't include our first round draft pick.
Next ...
Zombo
Zombo said:
So ... five for five then, and that doesn't include our first round draft pick.
Next ...
Zombo
At best I would give the Browns 4 for 4 plus a tie....if we give them a draw on the Pouncey/Mack debate.
Will you do that?
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Zombo said:
So ... five for five then, and that doesn't include our first round draft pick.
Next ...
Zombo
At best I would give the Browns 4 for 4 plus a tie....if we give them a draw on the Pouncey/Mack debate.
Will you do that?
At best I would give the Browns 4 for 4 plus a tie....if we give them a draw on the Pouncey/Mack debate.
Will you do that?
No, Mack is as good as there is at his position.
Z
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Next ...
How about the defensive backfield.
LCB: Joe Haden vs. Cortez Allen
SS: Donte Whitner vs. Shamarko Thomas
FS: Tashaun Gipson vs. Mike Mitchell
RCB: Tramon Williams vs. William Gay
I don't see a position where the Browns lose the comparison. Do any of you?
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OK....but here is some reality:
Offensive Skill players:
QB: Ben Roethlisberger vs. Josh McCown
RB: Leveon Bell vs. Isaiah Crowell
TE: Heath Miller vs. Gary Barnridge
WR1: Antonio Brown vs. Dwayne Bowe
WR2. Markus Wheaton vs. Brian Hartline (though he may be displaced.
Irregardless (yes, I used it)....I don't see a position where the Steelers lose the comparison. Do you?
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Using the same PFF rating system, here is the break out for 2014....by position/group, Browns won hands down.....
Stillers were stronger at RB....QB....DL ....
Browns were stronger at CB....S....OLB....ILB....OL....WR...
TE was a wash......
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Now, here is the Front Seven on Defense....I am going two deep on these as I think this is the one area on a team where there is the most need for depth.
RDE Desmond Bryant/John Hughes ....vs...Cameron Heyward/Cam Thomas
NT: Danny Shelton/Phil Taylor...vs...Steve McClendon/Daniel McCullers
LDE: Randy Starks/Billy Winn/X. Cooper...vs...Stephon Tuitt/Clifton Geathers
LOLB: Barkevious Mingo/Armonty Bryant...vs...Arthur Moats/Bud Dupree
LILB: Karlos Dansby/Tank Carder...vs....Ryan Shazier/Sean Spence
RILB: Craig Robertson/Christian Kirksey...vs....Lawrence Timmons/Vince Williams
ROLB: Paul Kruger/Nate Orchard...vs...James Harrison/Jarvis Jones
Italics=rookies
Choose who you think wins these matchups.
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Using the same PFF rating system, here is the break out for 2014....by position/group, Browns won hands down.....
Stillers were stronger at RB....QB....DL ....
Browns were stronger at CB....S....OLB....ILB....OL....WR...
TE was a wash......
Using the same PFF rating system, here is the break out for 2014....by position/group, Browns won hands down.....
Stillers were stronger at RB....QB....DL ....
Browns were stronger at CB....S....OLB....ILB....OL....WR...
TE was a wash......
Well, Browns did lose some with moves by Sheard and Jordan Cameron.....have they made up for them?
Plus...I am having trouble seeing where the Browns were better at WR.
And I don't see where Steelers are better overall at DLine......if the Browns are healthy.
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Now, here is the Front Seven on Defense....I am going two deep on these as I think this is the one area on a team where there is the most need for depth.
RDE Desmond Bryant/John Hughes ....vs...Cameron Heyward/Cam Thomas
NT: Danny Shelton/Phil Taylor...vs...Steve McClendon/Daniel McCullers
LDE: Randy Starks/Billy Winn/X. Cooper...vs...Stephon Tuitt/Clifton Geathers
LOLB: Barkevious Mingo/Armonty Bryant...vs...Arthur Moats/Bud Dupree
LILB: Karlos Dansby/Tank Carder...vs....Ryan Shazier/Sean Spence
RILB: Craig Robertson/Christian Kirksey...vs....Lawrence Timmons/Vince Williams
ROLB: Paul Kruger/Nate Orchard...vs...James Harrison/Jarvis Jones
Italics=rookies
Choose who you think wins these matchups.
Now, here is the Front Seven on Defense....I am going two deep on these as I think this is the one area on a team where there is the most need for depth.
My opinions:
RDE Desmond Bryant/John Hughes ....vs...Cameron Heyward/Cam Thomas
Heyward is probably the best individual....but I think the combo of Bryant/Huges is better than Heyward/Thomas
NT: Danny Shelton/Phil Taylor...vs...Steve McClendon/Daniel McCullers
Browns.
LDE: Randy Starks/Billy Winn/X. Cooper...vs...Stephon Tuitt/Clifton Geathers
Browns
LOLB: Barkevious Mingo/Armonty Bryant...vs...Arthur Moats/Bud Dupree
Browns....until and unless Dupree really proves himself
LILB: Karlos Dansby/Tank Carder...vs....Ryan Shazier/Sean Spence
Browns....until and unless Shazier proves himself
RILB: Craig Robertson/Christian Kirksey...vs....Lawrence Timmons/Vince Williams
Steelers....until and unless Kirksey really proves himself
ROLB: Paul Kruger/Nate Orchard...vs...James Harrison/Jarvis Jones
Browns....Kruger in prime, Harrison over the hill, Jones has done nothing much in two years. Orchard could make QBs fall like apples off a tree.
Italics=rookies
Choose who you think wins these matchups.
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PFF grades the Browns line at 77.5 and the Stillers line at 42.5.....so there that(it's not even close really)
Thomas 33.5 vs Beachum 21.7
Bitonio 22.4 vs Foster -0.9
Mack 6.9 vs Pouncey 9.8 (note: w/o injury, mack would average out to 22.3)(much higher "per game" score)
Greco 14.2 vs Decastro 5.2
Schwartz 0.5 vs Gilbert 6.8....
So....reality is that Schwartz is the only one with a lower average score......and Bito, Thomas, Greco AND Mack score way way higher.....
Id say these are the most objective and thorough ratings available.....much more solid than just opinion....
PFF grades the Browns line at 77.5 and the Stillers line at 42.5.....so there that(it's not even close really)
Thomas 33.5 vs Beachum 21.7
Bitonio 22.4 vs Foster -0.9
Mack 6.9 vs Pouncey 9.8 (note: w/o injury, mack would average out to 22.3)(much higher "per game" score)
Greco 14.2 vs Decastro 5.2
Schwartz 0.5 vs Gilbert 6.8....
So....reality is that Schwartz is the only one with a lower average score......and Bito, Thomas, Greco AND Mack score way way higher.....
Id say these are the most objective and thorough ratings available.....much more solid than just opinion....
Ok, thank you for digging that up. I would however love to see exactly how they rate the players. What are they measuring and what does a 33.5 rating mean vs a 21.7? You see, the problem I have with all of this is these ratings don't necessarily pass my eyeball test. One of the things I'm sure you'll agree is that our qb holds on to the ball longer than just about anyone I've ever seen (I have no proof, just my subjective observation). So the problem I have is if say Dave Decastro holds his block for 8 seconds and Ben moves around back and forth and is finally sacked by the guy Decastro is blocking because he ran right into him, do these rating account for things like that? Because if it's purely on sacks allowed I'm inclined to say that blocking for Ben is much different than blocking for just about anyone else. When I say eyeball test I mean I've literally seen that exact scenario play out many times.
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