Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I'd say the sample size is plenty big on McCown. Again I like him, but I'm not saying "let me forget these 28 years of terrible QB play from under center because he had some good practices."
Many said Johnny looked better yesterday.
I'd say the sample size is plenty big on McCown. Again I like him, but I'm not saying "let me forget these 28 years of terrible QB play from under center because he had some good practices."
Many said Johnny looked better yesterday.
Well, practice is all we(and the coaches) have to go by now.....and, in practice, McCown has looked very good and much better than the other guys to this point.....he also has the team behind him and has their respect as a leader....so he is the clear #1 by a mile...
and, if McCowns as bad as you might feel he is(28 years of terrible?), then its a problem that the other 3 guys aren't even challenging him for the #1....
That includes Johnny, Shaw and Thad.....
Who would be "many", as Ive not heard or seen that anywhere.....
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No it's not all you have to go on. You annointed him the starter in the summer. You all saw something in his history that made you believe he was good under center. I am waiting for that evidence.
Dawg Pound Nation for one tweeted it.
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Good point. And yes I played. But not QB. Line guy. But the play action seems to cancel it out on the plays you use it which for us is often. The shotgun spreads the defense out and wider splits help a shorter quarterback. The vast majority of quarterbacks are taking an absurd (like 70+%) of their snaps from the shotgun or pistol anyway. I can't find those numbers for 2014 though.
Oh and in the one year he was good, mccown took 82% from shotgun/pistol. So what indication do we have that he's any good under center? I like mccown. I'm ready for him to start. But that stat just hit me in the face.
Good point. And yes I played. But not QB. Line guy. But the play action seems to cancel it out on the plays you use it which for us is often. The shotgun spreads the defense out and wider splits help a shorter quarterback. The vast majority of quarterbacks are taking an absurd (like 70+%) of their snaps from the shotgun or pistol anyway. I can't find those numbers for 2014 though.
Oh and in the one year he was good, mccown took 82% from shotgun/pistol. So what indication do we have that he's any good under center? I like mccown. I'm ready for him to start. But that stat just hit me in the face.
Gun has little to do with wide splits. You can have those in any offense. I'm sure most QB's pass 70% from the gun. 70% of their total offense ? Very few QB's obtain that number.
I don't believe McCown is 'so good' under center - but I believe he is a better decision maker than Johnny. Early camp work would back up that remark.
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No not of their total offense. Just 70% of their passes. So, assuming a 50-50 run/pass split, a whopping 15% of drop backs would be from under center. 10-12 plays a game (and it's less than that since Johnny's completion percentage out of the gun isn't 0 and McCown's isn't 100). That's what you guys are determining the QB battle on.
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And a smart move by Pettine....only because McCown was the only one we had that seemed to be a true pro....and the Browns have loudly said they dont want or need another "quarterback circus" competition like we had last year.....we need consistency and someone to lead....
After Jff's play last year....and the whole rehab mess....there was no way that he was gonna walk into camp and, on day #1, command the respect needed to lead a team of veterans.....
So, if Johnnys not ready.....and the coach doesnt want a QB circus....whats he supposed to do, except name McCown #1????
Its pretty clear that Pettine will play the best player and if Johnny, Shaw or Thad step up, they can win the job.
"Many" is a tweet?.....ok.....
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No not of their total offense. Just 70% of their passes. So, assuming a 50-50 run/pass split, a whopping 15% of drop backs would be from under center. 10-12 plays a game (and it's less than that since Johnny's completion percentage out of the gun isn't 0 and McCown's isn't 100). That's what you guys are determining the QB battle on.
No not of their total offense. Just 70% of their passes. So, assuming a 50-50 run/pass split, a whopping 15% of drop backs would be from under center. 10-12 plays a game (and it's less than that since Johnny's completion percentage out of the gun isn't 0 and McCown's isn't 100). That's what you guys are determining the QB battle on.
OK so 15% is a good chunk of your play book. Especially when you're a zone stretch offense. Traditionally these types of attacks are predicated about being under center.
I'm determining this QB battle by who can get the team in and out of the huddle, play efficient within themselves, the offense while taking care of the football.
So far McCown has that edge. You were the one that brought up Johnny and the gun. I simply highlighted that not having him under center doesn't necessarily help his production.
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And a smart move by Pettine....only because McCown was the only one we had that seemed to be a true pro....and the Browns have loudly said they dont want or need another "quarterback circus" competition like we had last year.....we need consistency and someone to lead....
After Jff's play last year....and the whole rehab mess....there was no way that he was gonna walk into camp and, on day #1, command the respect needed to lead a team of veterans.....
So, if Johnnys not ready.....and the coach doesnt want a QB circus....whats he supposed to do, except name McCown #1????
Its pretty clear that Pettine will play the best player and if Johnny, Shaw or Thad step up, they can win the job.
"Many" is a tweet?.....ok.....
And a smart move by Pettine....only because McCown was the only one we had that seemed to be a true pro....and the Browns have loudly said they dont want or need another "quarterback circus" competition like we had last year.....we need consistency and someone to lead....
After Jff's play last year....and the whole rehab mess....there was no way that he was gonna walk into camp and, on day #1, command the respect needed to lead a team of veterans.....
So, if Johnnys not ready.....and the coach doesnt want a QB circus....whats he supposed to do, except name McCown #1????
Its pretty clear that Pettine will play the best player and if Johnny, Shaw or Thad step up, they can win the job.
"Many" is a tweet?.....ok.....
Ok so Mccown is the starter because Johnny's a celeb. That's cool with me. Like I said I back him. But let's then stop this charade that he's some stud under center compared to Johnny.
There were more. I do every bit of this posting from mobile so it's quite a bit of work to copy them over. He had a phenomenal day yesterday that got exactly zero mentions here.
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No not of their total offense. Just 70% of their passes. So, assuming a 50-50 run/pass split, a whopping 15% of drop backs would be from under center. 10-12 plays a game (and it's less than that since Johnny's completion percentage out of the gun isn't 0 and McCown's isn't 100). That's what you guys are determining the QB battle on.
OK so 15% is a good chunk of your play book. Especially when you're a zone stretch offense. Traditionally these types of attacks are predicated about being under center.
I'm determining this QB battle by who can get the team in and out of the huddle, play efficient within themselves, the offense while taking care of the football.
So far McCown has that edge. You were the one that brought up Johnny and the gun. I simply highlighted that not having him under center doesn't necessarily help his production.
OK so 15% is a good chunk of your play book. Especially when you're a zone stretch offense. Traditionally these types of attacks are predicated about being under center.
I'm determining this QB battle by who can get the team in and out of the huddle, play efficient within themselves, the offense while taking care of the football.
So far McCown has that edge. You were the one that brought up Johnny and the gun. I simply highlighted that not having him under center doesn't necessarily help his production.
No one's saying throw out the under center throws in your playbook. They're saying what Johnny can do in the 35% of shotgun drop backs vastly outweighs the struggles he may have (and that McCown may share) in the 15%.
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No not of their total offense. Just 70% of their passes. So, assuming a 50-50 run/pass split, a whopping 15% of drop backs would be from under center. 10-12 plays a game (and it's less than that since Johnny's completion percentage out of the gun isn't 0 and McCown's isn't 100). That's what you guys are determining the QB battle on.
No not of their total offense. Just 70% of their passes. So, assuming a 50-50 run/pass split, a whopping 15% of drop backs would be from under center. 10-12 plays a game (and it's less than that since Johnny's completion percentage out of the gun isn't 0 and McCown's isn't 100). That's what you guys are determining the QB battle on.
I think they are determining the QB battle on the fact that McCown has looked like a better quarterback than Manziel so far.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
And a smart move by Pettine....only because McCown was the only one we had that seemed to be a true pro....and the Browns have loudly said they dont want or need another "quarterback circus" competition like we had last year.....we need consistency and someone to lead....
After Jff's play last year....and the whole rehab mess....there was no way that he was gonna walk into camp and, on day #1, command the respect needed to lead a team of veterans.....
So, if Johnnys not ready.....and the coach doesnt want a QB circus....whats he supposed to do, except name McCown #1????
Its pretty clear that Pettine will play the best player and if Johnny, Shaw or Thad step up, they can win the job.
"Many" is a tweet?.....ok.....
Ok so Mccown is the starter because Johnny's a celeb. That's cool with me. Like I said I back him. But let's then stop this charade that he's some stud under center compared to Johnny.
There were more. I do every bit of this posting from mobile so it's quite a bit of work to copy them over. He had a phenomenal day yesterday that got exactly zero mentions here.
Ok so Mccown is the starter because Johnny's a celeb. That's cool with me. Like I said I back him. But let's then stop this charade that he's some stud under center compared to Johnny.
There were more. I do every bit of this posting from mobile so it's quite a bit of work to copy them over. He had a phenomenal day yesterday that got exactly zero mentions here.
Ok so Mccown is the starter because Johnny's a celeb???....(is this for real???)....Johnnys not starting simply because he hasn't practiced, worked or played well.....thats why....no other reason.....believe me, the Browns WANT him to start and play well.....he just hasnt done it yet....
Its not a charade that McCown is outplaying him so far....nor is it a charade that McCown has better leadership and maturity....and its not a charade that Johnny has had only 2 decent days at practice and 4-5 not so good days....(thats all real, if you're willing to look at it objectively)
And Id have mentioned it if I heard it(like I did the one other day he played well).....but did not get that he had a "phenomenal" day from the many sources I read daily.....
Not sure what the debate is really.....you dont actually think he's done whats needed to be #1 right now, do you????
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No not of their total offense. Just 70% of their passes. So, assuming a 50-50 run/pass split, a whopping 15% of drop backs would be from under center. 10-12 plays a game (and it's less than that since Johnny's completion percentage out of the gun isn't 0 and McCown's isn't 100). That's what you guys are determining the QB battle on.
I think they are determining the QB battle on the fact that McCown has looked like a better quarterback than Manziel so far.
I think they are determining the QB battle on the fact that McCown has looked like a better quarterback than Manziel so far.
Exactly.....and nothing else....
McCown looks WAY better....so far......
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OK so 15% is a good chunk of your play book. Especially when you're a zone stretch offense. Traditionally these types of attacks are predicated about being under center.
I'm determining this QB battle by who can get the team in and out of the huddle, play efficient within themselves, the offense while taking care of the football.
So far McCown has that edge. You were the one that brought up Johnny and the gun. I simply highlighted that not having him under center doesn't necessarily help his production.
No one's saying throw out the under center throws in your playbook. They're saying what Johnny can do in the 35% of shotgun drop backs vastly outweighs the struggles he may have (and that McCown may share) in the 15%.
So ignore the entirety of the play book in favor of highlighting some of it? More specifically ignoring formations that take advantage of our base offense running plays, ball action and bootlegs.No one's saying throw out the under center throws in your playbook. They're saying what Johnny can do in the 35% of shotgun drop backs vastly outweighs the struggles he may have (and that McCown may share) in the 15%.
Pretty simple. McCown has shown to be more efficient in camp compared to Manziel. If he wants to start he'll have to earn it executing with the full play book. End of story.
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Ok so Mccown is the starter because Johnny's a celeb. That's cool with me. Like I said I back him. But let's then stop this charade that he's some stud under center compared to Johnny.
There were more. I do every bit of this posting from mobile so it's quite a bit of work to copy them over. He had a phenomenal day yesterday that got exactly zero mentions here.
Ok so Mccown is the starter because Johnny's a celeb???....(is this for real???)....Johnnys not starting simply because he hasn't practiced, worked or played well.....thats why....no other reason.....believe me, the Browns WANT him to start and play well.....he just hasnt done it yet....
Its not a charade that McCown is outplaying him so far....nor is it a charade that McCown has better leadership and maturity....and its not a charade that Johnny has had only 2 decent days at practice and 4-5 not so good days....(thats all real, if you're willing to look at it objectively)
And Id have mentioned it if I heard it(like I did the one other day he played well).....but did not get that he had a "phenomenal" day from the many sources I read daily.....
Not sure what the debate is really.....you dont actually think he's done whats needed to be #1 right now, do you????
Ok so Mccown is the starter because Johnny's a celeb???....(is this for real???)....Johnnys not starting simply because he hasn't practiced, worked or played well.....thats why....no other reason.....believe me, the Browns WANT him to start and play well.....he just hasnt done it yet....
Its not a charade that McCown is outplaying him so far....nor is it a charade that McCown has better leadership and maturity....and its not a charade that Johnny has had only 2 decent days at practice and 4-5 not so good days....(thats all real, if you're willing to look at it objectively)
And Id have mentioned it if I heard it(like I did the one other day he played well).....but did not get that he had a "phenomenal" day from the many sources I read daily.....
Not sure what the debate is really.....you dont actually think he's done whats needed to be #1 right now, do you????
Your post strongly implied Manziek was a celeb. He caused a circus. So name McCown the starter. No need to walk it back. I agree that's what happened and I agree it was the right move. Don't take offense where there is no offense. Yes I'm an exaggerator. All part of my charm.
You keep going back to practice when I am asking what in McCown's history made him the anointed starter PRIOR TO training camp. It certainly is not his ability to play under center, which is the commonly cited reason.
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I think they are determining the QB battle on the fact that McCown has looked like a better quarterback than Manziel so far.
Exactly.....and nothing else....
McCown looks WAY better....so far......
Exactly.....and nothing else....
McCown looks WAY better....so far......
But it was determined in the summer and it was claimed in the summer that it was due to Johnny's major suckage under center and McCown's dominance there. I've proven the latter is nonexistent. You guys keep acting like he was named the starter just this past weekend. If that were the case, you'd have a case.
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Good take Tour.
But What evidence do you have Mccown can take snaps from center? Don't say 2013 as he rarely was.
But What evidence do you have Mccown can take snaps from center? Don't say 2013 as he rarely was.
Stat wise? None, but I have seen Josh. He sells the action better and is quicker to his set. We'll see about the reads, but doing the first two elements well goes a long way towards simplifying the third.
One thing we should all remember is that as of now Josh is the starter in Camp. He likely will start Pre-Season Game 1 as well. That means the #2 will see more work in the first two games. After game 2 we should know where we are and the Game 3 starter will start our season.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Ok so Mccown is the starter because Johnny's a celeb???....(is this for real???)....Johnnys not starting simply because he hasn't practiced, worked or played well.....thats why....no other reason.....believe me, the Browns WANT him to start and play well.....he just hasnt done it yet....
Its not a charade that McCown is outplaying him so far....nor is it a charade that McCown has better leadership and maturity....and its not a charade that Johnny has had only 2 decent days at practice and 4-5 not so good days....(thats all real, if you're willing to look at it objectively)
And Id have mentioned it if I heard it(like I did the one other day he played well).....but did not get that he had a "phenomenal" day from the many sources I read daily.....
Not sure what the debate is really.....you dont actually think he's done whats needed to be #1 right now, do you????
Your post strongly implied Manziek was a celeb. He caused a circus. So name McCown the starter. No need to walk it back. I agree that's what happened and I agree it was the right move. Don't take offense where there is no offense. Yes I'm an exaggerator. All part of my charm.
You keep going back to practice when I am asking what in McCown's history made him the anointed starter PRIOR TO training camp. It certainly is not his ability to play under center, which is the commonly cited reason.
Your post strongly implied Manziek was a celeb. He caused a circus. So name McCown the starter.
You keep going back to practice when I am asking what in McCown's history made him the anointed starter PRIOR TO training camp. It certainly is not his ability to play under center, which is the commonly cited reason.
Yes...you do have a way of "adding words" to what I said.....it was a circus and created a distraction and prevented the team from practicing on a regular basis with one QB......what I did NOT say was "Manziek was a celeb. He caused a circus"......those are words you added.....and not what I was implying...
We've had QB comps before Johnny too....they are never what you prefer....its best to have a #1....
And, when we signed McCown...yes, he was named #1....and, at the same time, Johnny was in rehab with zero indication if/when he might return....so,theres that....McCown was the only option.
Ive never heard anyone associated with the team saying we picked him up due to his ability to play under center....ever. Ive only heard them say they needed maturity and leadership and needed someone to execute a basic "run first" offense, that hopefully will be supported by strong defense. Then I heard them(The Browns) say they liked the way McCown played in Chicago and they felt, based upon that tape, that McCown would fit our scheme well....thats why we signed him ....its been printed and said a millions times by Farmer...Pettine...etc...
And....just last week, Pettine said AGAIN, that we have to have a #1 to properly prepare.....But the door was open for anyone to step up and take that job....and he would NOT say the McCown was his day 1 starter....
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But What evidence do you have Mccown can take snaps from center? Don't say 2013 as he rarely was.
Stat wise? None, but I have seen Josh. He sells the action better and is quicker to his set. We'll see about the reads, but doing the first two elements well goes a long way towards simplifying the third.
One thing we should all remember is that as of now Josh is the starter in Camp. He likely will start Pre-Season Game 1 as well. That means the #2 will see more work in the first two games. After game 2 we should know where we are and the Game 3 starter will start our season.
Stat wise? None, but I have seen Josh. He sells the action better and is quicker to his set. We'll see about the reads, but doing the first two elements well goes a long way towards simplifying the third.
One thing we should all remember is that as of now Josh is the starter in Camp. He likely will start Pre-Season Game 1 as well. That means the #2 will see more work in the first two games. After game 2 we should know where we are and the Game 3 starter will start our season.
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I'm a little lost in the comments here, but just looking at the QB position makes me very unsettled with how this season will end up. I just don't see McCown being any different than the other insert amount of "veteran" QB's who come here, play below average and then leave. This isn't some "play Manziel" endorsement either, just I don't know man. I just more and more curious every year if I'll ever see a Browns team with "the man" behind center. Must be nice to know that's for sure.
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Exactly.....and nothing else....
McCown looks WAY better....so far......
But it was determined in the summer and it was claimed in the summer that it was due to Johnny's major suckage under center and McCown's dominance there. I've proven the latter is nonexistent. You guys keep acting like he was named the starter just this past weekend. If that were the case, you'd have a case.
But it was determined in the summer and it was claimed in the summer that it was due to Johnny's major suckage under center and McCown's dominance there. I've proven the latter is nonexistent.
No, it wasn't and you haven't.
The under-center point was raised about three posts ago by me. It was an opinion based upon observation.
You've "proved" nothing.
Josh was named #1 going in camp because he was the better QB going into camp.
I think the same will be true going into the regular season... in part because of his play-action skill from under center.
You don't agree
Cool... but don't pretend it's anything more than that.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'm a little lost in the comments here, but just looking at the QB position makes me very unsettled with how this season will end up. I just don't see McCown being any different than the other insert amount of "veteran" QB's who come here, play below average and then leave. This isn't some "play Manziel" endorsement either, just I don't know man. I just more and more curious every year if I'll ever see a Browns team with "the man" behind center. Must be nice to know that's for sure.
I'm a little lost in the comments here, but just looking at the QB position makes me very unsettled with how this season will end up. I just don't see McCown being any different than the other insert amount of "veteran" QB's who come here, play below average and then leave. This isn't some "play Manziel" endorsement either, just I don't know man. I just more and more curious every year if I'll ever see a Browns team with "the man" behind center. Must be nice to know that's for sure.
I think we're all unsettled about it....
Our #1FA QB has a weak history in the league....good enough to stick for 13yrs, but not a quality starter...
Our heisman winning #1 draft choice has been a bust to date....
And our #3 & #4 are...well.....3's and 4's......
So.....hope is all we got.....
Hope McCown has a better season than last...
Hope that JFF continues acting and starts playing like a Pro....
Hope that Shaw beats the odds and steps up....
or....
Hope that Farmer gets us one next draft......
The good news is that.....so far.....McCown looks good. And Johnny seems to have his head straight and has shown some improvement. And Shaw has also looked good......
Thats all we got...
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