Jonathan Paul Manziel
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And this short into TC I think we are right on schedule with all. This is gonna be a good season overall. They are building a team that does not rely on a "star" QB to pull the fat out of the fire every possession. They are building one with a stellar D that just needs an O to at least help keep the other team off the field for half the game with a few first downs as often as possible and some scores when opportunity presents. Staff thinks they will be able to do that.
See, this is something I just disagree on when people mention it. I don't see how in any shape or form you can win more than 7, 8 games without a franchise QB. You can reach that "mediocre" level sure, maybe even sneak into the playoffs. But that strategy will never work long-term, at least IMO.
See, this is something I just disagree on when people mention it. I don't see how in any shape or form you can win more than 7, 8 games without a franchise QB. You can reach that "mediocre" level sure, maybe even sneak into the playoffs. But that strategy will never work long-term, at least IMO.
McCown isn't the path the FO is taking in lieu of seeking a franchise QB, but instead part of the process.
Josh is here to hold down the fort while Manziel develops as Farmer and Pett are still looking to JFF to become the long term solution.
In two years Farmer has brought in a shitload of fresh talent and I'm looking for another step forward this year regardless of who is under center.
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gotta add that this is easily the nicest....most civil....38 page Browns Board Johnny discussion......E V E R !
Keep it up....that means you too Johnny....
gotta add that this is easily the nicest....most civil....38 page Browns Board Johnny discussion......E V E R !
Keep it up....that means you too Johnny....
I wouldn't want to change the direction of this great post and hat's off to Johnny for his good showing. But I have to say that the decision to draft him over Bridgewater has set this franchise back at least 3 years and probably more. After money spent on a study and a perfect opportunity to pick him up late in the first round, it's a shame that intelligent and skilled minds couldn't have prevailed. I know this FO group has made plenty of good decisions and and will learn from this mistake, But many experts and a few arm-chair quarterbacks knew from the start that Johnny's skills would not translate to the NFL. It was a risk we couldn't afford to make and a nurturing process we couldn't afford to consider.
Maybe I'll eat my words. For now, I'm not holding my breath for Johnny and frankly, I don't think the Browns are either.
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gotta add that this is easily the nicest....most civil....38 page Browns Board Johnny discussion......E V E R !
Keep it up....that means you too Johnny....
I wouldn't want to change the direction of this great post and hat's off to Johnny for his good showing. But I have to say that the decision to draft him over Bridgewater has set this franchise back at least 3 years and probably more. After money spent on a study and a perfect opportunity to pick him up late in the first round, it's a shame that intelligent and skilled minds couldn't have prevailed. I know this FO group has made plenty of good decisions and and will learn from this mistake, But many experts and a few arm-chair quarterbacks knew from the start that Johnny's skills would not translate to the NFL. It was a risk we couldn't afford to make and a nurturing process we couldn't afford to consider.
Maybe I'll eat my words. For now, I'm not holding my breath for Johnny and frankly, I don't think the Browns are either.
I wouldn't want to change the direction of this great post and hat's off to Johnny for his good showing. But I have to say that the decision to draft him over Bridgewater has set this franchise back at least 3 years and probably more. After money spent on a study and a perfect opportunity to pick him up late in the first round, it's a shame that intelligent and skilled minds couldn't have prevailed. I know this FO group has made plenty of good decisions and and will learn from this mistake, But many experts and a few arm-chair quarterbacks knew from the start that Johnny's skills would not translate to the NFL. It was a risk we couldn't afford to make and a nurturing process we couldn't afford to consider.
Maybe I'll eat my words. For now, I'm not holding my breath for Johnny and frankly, I don't think the Browns are either.
well i knew after last night's game, there'd be some fans posting on here that are still upset over not drafting bridgewater (just like they'll be the others posting about watkins etc. AGAIN this year). yeah bridgewater looked alright last night against a steeler D which would make this year's crop of brown's defenders look all-pro. hell pitt better be worried if ben ever went down cuz right now he's their one-trick pony.
manziel would have shined against those clowns last night.
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No one wanted that cross dressing homo in Browns Town.
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Teddy Bildgewater didn't want to play here anyways.
No dome to protect his makeup. Bildgey got issuesies.
I think the new stadium's posts were put in place in his honor.....
Stadium: 4th Queen's Post Truss Put In PlacePosted Mar 3, 2015The fourth queenโs post truss and the third on the new stadium roofโs north side was placed this week. The 11 total queenโs post trusses will run north and south and support the roofโs metal decking and ETFE material.
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Kind of refreshing to see a few come to the defense of a Browns QB and deride someone else's for a change.
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gotta add that this is easily the nicest....most civil....38 page Browns Board Johnny discussion......E V E R !
Keep it up....that means you too Johnny....
I wouldn't want to change the direction of this great post and hat's off to Johnny for his good showing. But I have to say that the decision to draft him over Bridgewater has set this franchise back at least 3 years and probably more. After money spent on a study and a perfect opportunity to pick him up late in the first round, it's a shame that intelligent and skilled minds couldn't have prevailed. I know this FO group has made plenty of good decisions and and will learn from this mistake, But many experts and a few arm-chair quarterbacks knew from the start that Johnny's skills would not translate to the NFL. It was a risk we couldn't afford to make and a nurturing process we couldn't afford to consider.
Maybe I'll eat my words. For now, I'm not holding my breath for Johnny and frankly, I don't think the Browns are either.
1) I wouldn't want to change the direction of this great post.....hat's off to Johnny for his good showing.
2) I have to say that the decision to draft him over Bridgewater has set this franchise back at least 3 years and probably more.
1) Woulda been a good post if you had stopped here.....oh well.....
2) Woulda, shoulda, coulda......but.....we didnt....so why cry about the past?.....
Cant change the pick, so I say support Johnnys new found effort(and your team) instead of crying about year old spilled milk....
Teddy Bilgewater is a viking.....Sammy Watkins is a Bill.....Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel are Browns.....embrace it.....
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But what about Khalil?
Sometimes a guy just can't help himself...For me on draft day Teddy vs. Johnny was a matter of who I wanted less.
Who was the better QB in 2014? No doubt.... Teddy, but he wasn't "great".
Who will be better at the end of 2015? Likely Teddy, if for no other reason than a continued lack of data on JM.
Beyond that? Dunno at this point, but by the end of this season we should have a good idea on the ceiling height of at least one of them and, brace yourselves, but I kinda like our guy's odds by that measure. Meanwhile work continues on raising his floor...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Speaking of my "objective constant" in the QB room... here he is...
Side note: Kid looks worlds more mature this year.
Pertinent stuff begins at 3:13 mark.
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But what about Khalil?
Sometimes a guy just can't help himself...For me on draft day Teddy vs. Johnny was a matter of who I wanted less.
Who was the better QB in 2014? No doubt.... Teddy, but he wasn't "great".
Who will be better at the end of 2015? Likely Teddy, if for no other reason than a continued lack of data on JM.
Beyond that? Dunno at this point, but by the end of this season we should have a good idea on the ceiling height of at least one of them and, brace yourselves, but I kinda like our guy's odds by that measure. Meanwhile work continues on raising his floor...
But what about Khalil?
Sometimes a guy just can't help himself...For me on draft day Teddy vs. Johnny was a matter of who I wanted less.
Who was the better QB in 2014? No doubt.... Teddy, but he wasn't "great".
Who will be better at the end of 2015? Likely Teddy, if for no other reason than a continued lack of data on JM.
Beyond that? Dunno at this point, but by the end of this season we should have a good idea on the ceiling height of at least one of them and, brace yourselves, but I kinda like our guy's odds by that measure. Meanwhile work continues on raising his floor...
I was high on Bridgewater throughout the season, but I was not much of a Teddy Twatwater fan come draft time.
However, judging from the way we're seemingly attempting to build this time, I think it's fairly obvious that he was probably Pettine's choice for QB out of that draft class.
The identity we are seemingly trying to build is that of a run first, defensive minded team that beats you into submission and capitalizes on opponent errors. We have a studly offensive line. We have a stable of young runningbacks. We have a couple talented, mixed use WR's and TE's. And we have a veteran QB who is large, a bit lanky, but decently mobile and cerebral.
On paper, it seems like Bridgewater would be the perfect fit for that offense. He's efficient, he's athletic enough, he's tall-ish and lanky and he is a cerebral passer.
So...why the fuck did we go with Manziel? I know Farmer has repeated ad nauseum that Haslam had nothing to do with the pick, but I can't see any scenario in which Pettine and Farmer would have consciously passed up Bridgewater for Manziel.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Interesting take...
Put another way...
If you were to put JM and TB college style on a scale of 0 (Game Manager) to 10 (Gunslinger), what would they rate?
Add in Shaw if you like...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
So far, Johnny is a bust, Teddy is not.
IMO, if Johnny stays on the path he's on, he will surpass Teddy.
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Interesting take...
Put another way...
If you were to put JM and TB college style on a scale of 0 (Game Manager) to 10 (Gunslinger), what would they rate?
Add in Shaw if you like...
Interesting take...
Put another way...
If you were to put JM and TB college style on a scale of 0 (Game Manager) to 10 (Gunslinger), what would they rate?
Add in Shaw if you like...
Bridgewater - INT% = 2.1%
Shaw - INT % = 2.2%
Manziel - INT % = 2.5%
Out of that draft class? I'd say Bridgewater was the 0, Shaw was about a 2, and Manziel was above 5.
However, game manager is a term that implies a lack of athletic talent, which is certainly not the case with Bridgewater.
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Interesting take...
Put another way...
If you were to put JM and TB college style on a scale of 0 (Game Manager) to 10 (Gunslinger), what would they rate?
Add in Shaw if you like...
Bridgewater - INT% = 2.1%
Shaw - INT % = 2.2%
Manziel - INT % = 2.5%
Out of that draft class? I'd say Bridgewater was the 0, Shaw was about a 2, and Manziel was above 5.
However, game manager is a term that implies a lack of athletic talent, which is certainly not the case with Bridgewater.
However, game manager is a term that implies a lack of athletic talent, which is certainly not the case with Bridgewater.
Hmmmm... I've never taken "game manager" to encompass any comment on athleticism. To my mind it has always been an indicator of the mental discipline or aggressiveness or risk/reward balance... maybe a scoop of each.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
But what about Khalil?
Sometimes a guy just can't help himself...For me on draft day Teddy vs. Johnny was a matter of who I wanted less.
Who was the better QB in 2014? No doubt.... Teddy, but he wasn't "great".
Who will be better at the end of 2015? Likely Teddy, if for no other reason than a continued lack of data on JM.
Beyond that? Dunno at this point, but by the end of this season we should have a good idea on the ceiling height of at least one of them and, brace yourselves, but I kinda like our guy's odds by that measure. Meanwhile work continues on raising his floor...
I was high on Bridgewater throughout the season, but I was not much of a Teddy Twatwater fan come draft time.
However, judging from the way we're seemingly attempting to build this time, I think it's fairly obvious that he was probably Pettine's choice for QB out of that draft class.
The identity we are seemingly trying to build is that of a run first, defensive minded team that beats you into submission and capitalizes on opponent errors. We have a studly offensive line. We have a stable of young runningbacks. We have a couple talented, mixed use WR's and TE's. And we have a veteran QB who is large, a bit lanky, but decently mobile and cerebral.
On paper, it seems like Bridgewater would be the perfect fit for that offense. He's efficient, he's athletic enough, he's tall-ish and lanky and he is a cerebral passer.
So...why the fuck did we go with Manziel? I know Farmer has repeated ad nauseum that Haslam had nothing to do with the pick, but I can't see any scenario in which Pettine and Farmer would have consciously passed up Bridgewater for Manziel.
I was high on Bridgewater throughout the season, but I was not much of a Teddy Twatwater fan come draft time.
However, judging from the way we're seemingly attempting to build this time, I think it's fairly obvious that he was probably Pettine's choice for QB out of that draft class.
The identity we are seemingly trying to build is that of a run first, defensive minded team that beats you into submission and capitalizes on opponent errors. We have a studly offensive line. We have a stable of young runningbacks. We have a couple talented, mixed use WR's and TE's. And we have a veteran QB who is large, a bit lanky, but decently mobile and cerebral.
On paper, it seems like Bridgewater would be the perfect fit for that offense. He's efficient, he's athletic enough, he's tall-ish and lanky and he is a cerebral passer.
So...why the fuck did we go with Manziel? I know Farmer has repeated ad nauseum that Haslam had nothing to do with the pick, but I can't see any scenario in which Pettine and Farmer would have consciously passed up Bridgewater for Manziel.
I just think looking at the draft they looked at the whole thing from a "talent first" perspective. When you look at both Gilbert and Manziel there's no way anyone can deny the guys are athletes. So far that blew up in their face but other times it doesn't, you can look around the league at a lot of players on both sides of it. This year's first round shows how far they spun in the opposite direction. They took two guys who weren't workout warriors but played damn good college football.
Edit: Meant to add about Teddy. I'll be interested to see his career in five or so years. I never doubted the guy had a good football IQ, but I'm wondering if he'll get "figured out" for what his style is.
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water under the bridge(tour word) or JM= you always take the guy that wants to be here, but man the damn talent we past on still drives me nuts
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However, game manager is a term that implies a lack of athletic talent, which is certainly not the case with Bridgewater.
Hmmmm... I've never taken "game manager" to encompass any comment on athleticism. To my mind it has always been an indicator of the mental discipline or aggressiveness or risk/reward balance... maybe a scoop of each.
Hmmmm... I've never taken "game manager" to encompass any comment on athleticism. To my mind it has always been an indicator of the mental discipline or aggressiveness or risk/reward balance... maybe a scoop of each.
It could just be me, then. I've just always equated "game manager" with someone like Chad Pennington. Not a physical specimen by any means. Not fast, not a big arm, not overly elusive. But he could get out there and pick you apart like a scalpel at times.
Brian Hoyer was another good example of a game manager in some cases. A facilitator. Get the ball to the guys who can make the play.
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1) I wouldn't want to change the direction of this great post.....hat's off to Johnny for his good showing.
2) I have to say that the decision to draft him over Bridgewater has set this franchise back at least 3 years and probably more.
1) Woulda been a good post if you had stopped here.....oh well.....
2) Woulda, shoulda, coulda......but.....we didnt....so why cry about the past?.....
Cant change the pick, so I say support Johnnys new found effort(and your team) instead of crying about year old spilled milk....
Teddy Bilgewater is a viking.....Sammy Watkins is a Bill.....Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel are Browns.....embrace it.....
1) Woulda been a good post if you had stopped here.....oh well.....
2) Woulda, shoulda, coulda......but.....we didnt....so why cry about the past?.....
Cant change the pick, so I say support Johnnys new found effort(and your team) instead of crying about year old spilled milk....
Teddy Bilgewater is a viking.....Sammy Watkins is a Bill.....Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel are Browns.....embrace it.....
Even though you're critiquing me, I agree with you 100%. Time we all wipe our tears and move on from these mistakes. I just hope it doesn't cost them their jobs because I really like this tandem of Farmer/Pet
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