Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Interesting take...
Put another way...
If you were to put JM and TB college style on a scale of 0 (Game Manager) to 10 (Gunslinger), what would they rate?
Add in Shaw if you like...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
So far, Johnny is a bust, Teddy is not.
IMO, if Johnny stays on the path he's on, he will surpass Teddy.
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Interesting take...
Put another way...
If you were to put JM and TB college style on a scale of 0 (Game Manager) to 10 (Gunslinger), what would they rate?
Add in Shaw if you like...
Interesting take...
Put another way...
If you were to put JM and TB college style on a scale of 0 (Game Manager) to 10 (Gunslinger), what would they rate?
Add in Shaw if you like...
Bridgewater - INT% = 2.1%
Shaw - INT % = 2.2%
Manziel - INT % = 2.5%
Out of that draft class? I'd say Bridgewater was the 0, Shaw was about a 2, and Manziel was above 5.
However, game manager is a term that implies a lack of athletic talent, which is certainly not the case with Bridgewater.
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Interesting take...
Put another way...
If you were to put JM and TB college style on a scale of 0 (Game Manager) to 10 (Gunslinger), what would they rate?
Add in Shaw if you like...
Bridgewater - INT% = 2.1%
Shaw - INT % = 2.2%
Manziel - INT % = 2.5%
Out of that draft class? I'd say Bridgewater was the 0, Shaw was about a 2, and Manziel was above 5.
However, game manager is a term that implies a lack of athletic talent, which is certainly not the case with Bridgewater.
However, game manager is a term that implies a lack of athletic talent, which is certainly not the case with Bridgewater.
Hmmmm... I've never taken "game manager" to encompass any comment on athleticism. To my mind it has always been an indicator of the mental discipline or aggressiveness or risk/reward balance... maybe a scoop of each.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
But what about Khalil?
Sometimes a guy just can't help himself...For me on draft day Teddy vs. Johnny was a matter of who I wanted less.
Who was the better QB in 2014? No doubt.... Teddy, but he wasn't "great".
Who will be better at the end of 2015? Likely Teddy, if for no other reason than a continued lack of data on JM.
Beyond that? Dunno at this point, but by the end of this season we should have a good idea on the ceiling height of at least one of them and, brace yourselves, but I kinda like our guy's odds by that measure. Meanwhile work continues on raising his floor...
I was high on Bridgewater throughout the season, but I was not much of a Teddy Twatwater fan come draft time.
However, judging from the way we're seemingly attempting to build this time, I think it's fairly obvious that he was probably Pettine's choice for QB out of that draft class.
The identity we are seemingly trying to build is that of a run first, defensive minded team that beats you into submission and capitalizes on opponent errors. We have a studly offensive line. We have a stable of young runningbacks. We have a couple talented, mixed use WR's and TE's. And we have a veteran QB who is large, a bit lanky, but decently mobile and cerebral.
On paper, it seems like Bridgewater would be the perfect fit for that offense. He's efficient, he's athletic enough, he's tall-ish and lanky and he is a cerebral passer.
So...why the fuck did we go with Manziel? I know Farmer has repeated ad nauseum that Haslam had nothing to do with the pick, but I can't see any scenario in which Pettine and Farmer would have consciously passed up Bridgewater for Manziel.
I was high on Bridgewater throughout the season, but I was not much of a Teddy Twatwater fan come draft time.
However, judging from the way we're seemingly attempting to build this time, I think it's fairly obvious that he was probably Pettine's choice for QB out of that draft class.
The identity we are seemingly trying to build is that of a run first, defensive minded team that beats you into submission and capitalizes on opponent errors. We have a studly offensive line. We have a stable of young runningbacks. We have a couple talented, mixed use WR's and TE's. And we have a veteran QB who is large, a bit lanky, but decently mobile and cerebral.
On paper, it seems like Bridgewater would be the perfect fit for that offense. He's efficient, he's athletic enough, he's tall-ish and lanky and he is a cerebral passer.
So...why the fuck did we go with Manziel? I know Farmer has repeated ad nauseum that Haslam had nothing to do with the pick, but I can't see any scenario in which Pettine and Farmer would have consciously passed up Bridgewater for Manziel.
I just think looking at the draft they looked at the whole thing from a "talent first" perspective. When you look at both Gilbert and Manziel there's no way anyone can deny the guys are athletes. So far that blew up in their face but other times it doesn't, you can look around the league at a lot of players on both sides of it. This year's first round shows how far they spun in the opposite direction. They took two guys who weren't workout warriors but played damn good college football.
Edit: Meant to add about Teddy. I'll be interested to see his career in five or so years. I never doubted the guy had a good football IQ, but I'm wondering if he'll get "figured out" for what his style is.
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water under the bridge(tour word) or JM= you always take the guy that wants to be here, but man the damn talent we past on still drives me nuts
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However, game manager is a term that implies a lack of athletic talent, which is certainly not the case with Bridgewater.
Hmmmm... I've never taken "game manager" to encompass any comment on athleticism. To my mind it has always been an indicator of the mental discipline or aggressiveness or risk/reward balance... maybe a scoop of each.
Hmmmm... I've never taken "game manager" to encompass any comment on athleticism. To my mind it has always been an indicator of the mental discipline or aggressiveness or risk/reward balance... maybe a scoop of each.
It could just be me, then. I've just always equated "game manager" with someone like Chad Pennington. Not a physical specimen by any means. Not fast, not a big arm, not overly elusive. But he could get out there and pick you apart like a scalpel at times.
Brian Hoyer was another good example of a game manager in some cases. A facilitator. Get the ball to the guys who can make the play.
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1) I wouldn't want to change the direction of this great post.....hat's off to Johnny for his good showing.
2) I have to say that the decision to draft him over Bridgewater has set this franchise back at least 3 years and probably more.
1) Woulda been a good post if you had stopped here.....oh well.....
2) Woulda, shoulda, coulda......but.....we didnt....so why cry about the past?.....
Cant change the pick, so I say support Johnnys new found effort(and your team) instead of crying about year old spilled milk....
Teddy Bilgewater is a viking.....Sammy Watkins is a Bill.....Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel are Browns.....embrace it.....
1) Woulda been a good post if you had stopped here.....oh well.....
2) Woulda, shoulda, coulda......but.....we didnt....so why cry about the past?.....
Cant change the pick, so I say support Johnnys new found effort(and your team) instead of crying about year old spilled milk....
Teddy Bilgewater is a viking.....Sammy Watkins is a Bill.....Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel are Browns.....embrace it.....
Even though you're critiquing me, I agree with you 100%. Time we all wipe our tears and move on from these mistakes. I just hope it doesn't cost them their jobs because I really like this tandem of Farmer/Pet
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1) Woulda been a good post if you had stopped here.....oh well.....
2) Woulda, shoulda, coulda......but.....we didnt....so why cry about the past?.....
Cant change the pick, so I say support Johnnys new found effort(and your team) instead of crying about year old spilled milk....
Teddy Bilgewater is a viking.....Sammy Watkins is a Bill.....Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel are Browns.....embrace it.....
Even though you're critiquing me, I agree with you 100%. Time we all wipe our tears and move on from these mistakes. I just hope it doesn't cost them their jobs because I really like this tandem of Farmer/Pet
Even though you're critiquing me, I agree with you 100%. Time we all wipe our tears and move on from these mistakes. I just hope it doesn't cost them their jobs because I really like this tandem of Farmer/Pet
they won't get fired by haslam for the manziel pick when it was the owner himself that wanted the pick to begin with.
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Teddy = "Mechanical" 2
Johnny = "Scrambler" 7
Shaw = "Gritty" 5
I agree that Shaw is gritty. I'll also add that between the ears, he's the better QB in that group. He might not have the physical talents of the other two, but he rarely misses a read or an opportunity. He get's the strategy and x/o's. If his arm strength really has improved, he could surprise us again some day.
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Even though you're critiquing me, I agree with you 100%. Time we all wipe our tears and move on from these mistakes. I just hope it doesn't cost them their jobs because I really like this tandem of Farmer/Pet
they won't get fired by haslam for the manziel pick when it was the owner himself that wanted the pick to begin with.
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Gary Barnidge is listed as a starter on the Browns' unofficial depth chart, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports.
Aug 11 2015, 1:30 PMRotowire
Barnidge is listed as a starter on the Browns' unofficial depth chart, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports.
Analysis:
Regardless of whether he beats out Jim Dray and Rob Housler for the starting job, Barnidge won't have a major role in the passing game. He's carved out a nice career as a blocking-oriented backup tight end, but he only has 44 receptions in 92 career games. Dray is a similar player, leaving Housler as the only real threat to contribute as a receiver. In all likelihood, Cleveland will rank near the bottom of the league in receptions and receiving yards from tight ends.
Browns head coach Mike Pettine said it is obvious that Housler needs to work on his catching, Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon Journal reports.
Aug 11 2015, 1:25 PMRotowire
Browns head coach Mike Pettine said it is obvious that Housler needs to work on his catching, Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon Journal reports.
Analysis:
Housler has reportedly struggled at training camp, including two or three drops Tuesday alone. He managed to find work with a team that's badly in need of playmakers in the passing game, yet he's still only listed third on the initial depth chart, behind blockers Gary Barnidge and Jim Dray, according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer. Though Housler still has a very real shot to emerge as Cleveland's top receiving threat at tight end, that won't necessarily be saying a whole lot, as it's not an impressive group.
Browns' Thomas dodges knee injury, Manziel rests sore elbow
Aug 11 2015, 1:08 PMThe Associated Press
BEREA, Ohio - Cleveland Browns backup quarterback Johnny Manziel was limited in practice by a sore right elbow but is expected to play Thursday night in Cleveland's exhibition opener against Washington.
Manziel did not throw any passes with his right arm - he made a couple tosses left-handed - on Tuesday. Manziel wore a long sleeve on his right arm and only handed off during the drills he participated in.
''We just wanted to rest him for the day,'' Browns coach Mike Pettine said. ''It was just an accumulation of reps and it started getting a little sore. We would do that with any of the guys, but he was the one who was experiencing some stiffness.''
Manziel had his arm heavily wrapped following Friday's scrimmage in Columbus, but Pettine said that is ''standard'' treatment with all the team's QBs.
The 2012 Heisman Trophy winner, Manziel has had an impressive training camp as he tries to shake off a rotten rookie season, which was followed by a 10-week rehab stay. Manziel is listed as Cleveland's No. 2 quarterback behind Josh McCown.
Manziel has shown improvement the past two weeks and completed 9 of 11 passes for 93 yards and two touchdowns in the Browns' intrasquad scrimmage at Ohio State.
The Browns got good news on Pro Bowl left tackle Joe Thomas, who did not sustain any significant damage when he was hit on the right knee toward the end of Monday's practice.
Thomas did not practice Tuesday, but that was a planned rest day for the veteran. Thomas had his knee struck from behind by rookie defensive tackle Danny Shelton, who inadvertently fell into the eight-time Pro Bowler while being blocked on a running play on Monday.
Pettine said Thomas may still play against the Redskins.
Injuries have been a major issue for the Browns since camp opened. Starting wide receiver Dwayne Bowe remains sidelined with a hamstring injury and Terrelle Pryor, trying to switch from quarterback to receiver, is also out with a hamstring issue that has lingered longer than expected. Also, rookie running back Duke Johnson is still out with a hamstring problem.
The Browns have major plans in their offense for Johnson, a third-round pick and Miami's career rushing leader.
Dwayne Bowe (hamstring) will not play in Thursday's preseason opener against the Redskins, Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon Journal reports.
Aug 11 2015, 12:14 PMRotowire
Bowe (hamstring) will not play in Thursday's preseason opener against the Redskins, Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon Journal reports.
Analysis:
Bowe has been limited by a hamstring injury since last week, but there's been no indication that it could threaten his Week 1 availability. He likely would have played just one or two series in Thursday's game, as he's expected to lock down a starting role without much competition.
Terrelle Pryor (hamstring) isn't practicing Tuesday and is unlikely to play in the Browns' preseason opener Thursday against the Redskins, Scott Petrak of the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram reports.
Aug 11 2015, 10:01 AMRotowire
Pryor (hamstring) isn't practicing Tuesday and is unlikely to play in the Browns' preseason opener Thursday against the Redskins, Scott Petrak of the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram reports.
Analysis:
Pryor has now missed a full week of practice, even though he initially deemed his absence to be precautionary. Once healthy, he'll hope to earn a roster spot as the fourth or fifth wide receiver, though he could eventually work his way up an unimpressive depth chart.
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Really think Barnidge now has a golden opportunity to shine at TE and he's working hard to prove it daily at camp. Barnidge really never had a shot at Carolina with Newton just out of Auburn with no throwing accuracy when he was there. Barn got his feet wet with Cameron here. Now the door is wide open at TE and he's been around long enough not to miss out on his opportunity. The Zona fans maybe right on Housler, the drops and nows the time to find it. Go Bibbs and Dray!!
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This is mildly disappointing. Wasn't Housler brought on to be the pass catching sucks at blocking tight end?
If he isn't sucking at blocking, then who is gonna suck at blocking?
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