laurinaitis coming in

Alendor

this isn't dungeons and dragons, big ten and sec both recruit from all around the country. they don't magically get a speed boost from being in the SEC. the speed issue is pretty much mostly BS made up by the media

Riffer X

@ytownbrownsbacker said:
Consider the source. Some people can't debate intelligently without name calling. There's one opinion and that's theirs. NO one else is entitled to one.

Name callers always show their true colors. They're generally the most bitter posters, and rarely do they have anything good to say about anything.

Overall unhappy people who can't coexist on a message board. Normal people don't call people names to their face very often over a football discussion.

ballpeen

Good gosh....any difference in the conferences isn't in speed or power...they all attract quality players....it's in the depth of the individual teams and the entire conference.

Bottom line is more kids want to play in places where the weather isn't crap 6 of the 9 months they are in school, thus SEC schools tend to get more of the blue chippers v. Big 10 schools.

It's more likely a kid from Ohio or Minnesota is going to head to Florida or South Carolina v. the other kids heading up north.

That is why when you compare the conferences, you really need to look at the bottom tier schools in each...and that is where the big difference occurs, and what in the end most of the time makes the top teams slightly better...they play better, deeper teams week after week.

Oldcrow1945

@ballpeen said:
Good gosh....any difference in the conferences isn't in speed or power...they all attract quality players....it's in the depth of the individual teams and the entire conference.
Bottom line is more kids want to play in places where the weather isn't crap 6 of the 9 months they are in school, thus SEC schools tend to get more of the blue chippers v. Big 10 schools.

I wouldn't disagree with that. But I'd also add that there are just a lot of good football players now in the south and they simply stay home. Of the 97 players on the Florida Gator roster only three are from Northern states. Two from NJ and one from CT.

One the other hand OSU has 15 southern players on their roster, 7 of them from Florida. (With another one this year in Jamaal Berry. The state of Florida's #1 Running back)

The states which have the most high quailty football players according to recruiting numbers are as follows.

Florida

Texas

California

Georgia

Ohio

Riffer X

oldcow1945 said:
I wouldn't disagree with that. But I'd also add that there are just a lot of good football players now in the south and they simply stay home. Of the 97 players on the Florida Gator roster only three are from Northern states. Two from NJ and one from CT.
One the other hand OSU has 15 southern players on their roster, 7 of them from Florida. (With another one this year in Jamaal Berry. The state of Florida's #1 Running back)

The states which have the most high quailty football players according to recruiting numbers are as follows.

Florida

Texas

California

Georgia

Ohio

I think the SEC swing has went the way it has simply because we are losing population up north. Pluto keeps harping on this and I can't disagree with him. More and more people are leaving the midwest, so not only are they leaving here they are moving to the south and giving them more of an influx of talent.

I still say it's cyclical and there is no doubt that the Big Ten is down right now, but they still can put out as good a players as anybody else, that will never be in question.

The scheduling thing is a joke. SEC teams play totally weak teams non conference. OSU is keeping lots of games in state to help fellow state schools.

I also believe the Big 12 has benefited from population movement.

? Aloysius

@ytownbrownsbacker said:
But, weren't we talking LBs and not WR. How about LBs from the Big Ten vs LBs from the SEC.

Ask, and you shall receive:

Average 40 times:
- SEC: 4.68
- Ten: 4.71

Note: I included all LB's who were drafted, not just ones picked in the top four rounds.

? Aloysius

oldcow1945 said:
That is five one hundreds faster! Five one hundreds of one second!!! Talk about insignificant! That is literally a photo finish!!! It proves just the opposite Aloy. If you think five one hundreds lends credence to there not being any similarity then this discussion is not worth it's while.
I'm ROTFL here!

Yeah, it's truly hilarious

Not sure that a .05 second difference is completely insignificant, but I'll put that aside for now. What you didn't see from looking at those numbers is that there were a lot more 4.3 guys among the SEC crew. While only 33% of the Big Ten guys registered times below 4.4, a full 50% of the SEC guys timed in the 4.3's. Because of the ridiculously small sample size, it's hard to tell whether that's indicative of anything, but it at least suggests that elite speed is more common in the SEC.

? Aloysius

@ytownbrownsbacker said:
Maybe not the next LT or Seau but very well could be the next Brian Urlacker. Seems that's who most scouts compare him to.

To be honest, I haven't heard that comparison used in a long time. nfldraftscout compares him to Rob Morris (which I think is a little too uncharitable).

Urlacher possesses a rare combination of size and athleticism: he can cover the deep zone like a Tampa 2 ILB must do, but he's also big & strong enough to stuff the run. I like Laurinaitis, but I don't think he possesses those same traits.

Oldcrow1945

Aloysius said:
Yeah, it's truly hilarious
Not sure that a .05 second difference is completely insignificant, but I'll put that aside for now. What you didn't see from looking at those numbers is that there were a lot more 4.3 guys among the SEC crew. While only 33% of the Big Ten guys registered times below 4.4, a full 50% of the SEC guys timed in the 4.3's. Because of the ridiculously small sample size, it's hard to tell whether that's indicative of anything, but it at least suggests that elite speed is more common in the SEC.

How did you get 50% of 21?

? Aloysius

nfldraftscout only had Combine 40 times for 14 of them.

Oldcrow1945

Aloysius said:
Yeah, it's truly hilarious
Not sure that a .05 second difference is completely insignificant, but I'll put that aside for now. What you didn't see from looking at those numbers is that there were a lot more 4.3 guys among the SEC crew. While only 33% of the Big Ten guys registered times below 4.4, a full 50% of the SEC guys timed in the 4.3's. Because of the ridiculously small sample size, it's hard to tell whether that's indicative of anything, but it at least suggests that elite speed is more common in the SEC.

Where are you getting these past results?

DeadWombat

You guys are killing me.... arguing about such insignificant facts like the .03 sec difference in SEC and Big Ten running times.... Thats like.... what, six tenths of a percent? By all scientific standards, any difference that small is absolutely rubbish.

Over-analyzation here is running rampant. Also, I thought we were talking about James Laurinaitis.

Speaking of which, JL is a fantastic player with a great head on his shoulders, but with our draft slots, it will be hard to take him: 5th place is too early for us and we have other issues to tend to, and honestly I think he will be gone by the time our next pick comes around.

Oldcrow1945

Aloysius said:
nfldraftscout only had Combine 40 times for 14 of them.

14 from the SEC? How many from the Big Ten?

? Aloysius

Look here

Oldcrow1945

Aloysius said:
Look here

So your research was on 7 players vs. 4 players

And you said this lends credence to there being a difference?

Oldcrow1945

@deadwombat said:
You guys are killing me.... arguing about such insignificant facts like the .03 sec difference in SEC and Big Ten running times.... Thats like.... what, six tenths of a percent? By all scientific standards, any difference that small is absolutely rubbish.
Over-analyzation here is running rampant. Also, I thought we were talking about James Laurinaitis.

This has been my point. That the speed difference is insignificant at least and ridiculous at most.

But Aloy said that five hundreds of a second lends credence to there being a difference.

? Aloysius

You wanted guys taken in the top four rounds in the last seven years, which restricted the sample size. Anyway, here is what I compiled. Feel free to draw your own conclusions from it.

Corners taken
SEC: 18

Big Ten: 18 --> 4.4442

'08

Justin King: 4.31

Tracy Porter: 4.37

Charles Godfrey: 4.43

Jack Ikegwuono

'07

Leon Hall: 4.39

'06

Ashton Youboty

Alan Zemaitis

'05

Marlin Jackson: 4.52

Kelvin Hayden: 4.45

Scott Starks: 4.37

Dustin Fox: 4.43

'04

Chris Gamble

Jeremy LeSueur: 4.53

Rich Gardner: 4.46

'03

Eugene Wilson: 4.48

Bryan Scott

'02

Derek Ross: 4.59

Mike Echols

SEC: 4.4078 (out of 14)

'08

Patrick Lee: 4.41

Chevis Jackson: 4.52

Jonathan Wilhite: 4.38

'07

Chris Houston: 4.32

Jonathan Wade: 4.36

Fred Bennett: 4.46

'06

Jonathan Joseph: 4.31

Tim Jennings: 4.32

'05

Carlos Rogers: 4.44

Corey Webster

Travis Daniels: 4.54

'04

Dunta Robinson: 4.34

Ahmad Carroll: 4.34

Keiwan Ratliff

Bruce Thornton: 4.50

'03

'02

Lito Sheppard

Sheldon Brown: 4.47

Andre Goodman

DeadWombat

Aloysius said:
You wanted guys taken in the top four rounds in the last seven years, which restricted the sample size. Anyway, here is what I compiled. Feel free to draw your own conclusions from it.

After exhaustively researching and analyzing the material, my conclusions are.....

None of it matters.

? Aloysius

oldcow1945 said:
But Aloy said that five hundreds of a second lends credence to there being a difference.

Honestly, I don't care all that much because I'm not a partisan to either side of this debate. But I though the numbers at least left the question open, especially because your 4th round cutoff made little sense. Who knows what direction that difference would head if you included all cornerbacks drafted?

I could go ahead and re-crunch the numbers using all drafted cornerbacks, but I won't because

like ballpeen, I suspect this doesn't mean very much. It was more of a curious intellectual exercise for me.
I'm not convinced you actually give a shit about what the results would be. You're already set in your opinions, so any contrary results would just get a rolling eyes emoticon - which is fine, but then there's no use discussing it with you.

Canton Mike

I have quickly glanced at all this "draft & speed" stuff. Here is my question:

WHERE (NFL production wise) are these players 3-4 YEARS after they were drafted? Are they starting? Still in the league? Productive as starters or backups? At that point, they should all have had opportunities to establish themselves in the NFL.

Just something else to muddy the waters. I certainly (with a job & 7 Grandkids & an upcoming wedding) don't have time to research it!

Mike