Jonathan Paul Manziel
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never like the johnny pick. really didn't like the way he came in and shit the bed last year after all his hype.
what i've seen of him so far this year i like. he's looks the part in the huddle and is now showing leadership and humility. just wondering if this is him topped out? he has the arm. he has the mobility but like my pitbull i think he has some things hard wired into his sytem where when the shit starts flying he reverts back to JF and pulls it down and runs. some guys come in and take over from day one. some don't. just don't see the aaron rodgers in him as of yet and how much time does this core team have to wait?
never like the johnny pick. really didn't like the way he came in and shit the bed last year after all his hype.
what i've seen of him so far this year i like. he's looks the part in the huddle and is now showing leadership and humility. just wondering if this is him topped out? he has the arm. he has the mobility but like my pitbull i think he has some things hard wired into his sytem where when the shit starts flying he reverts back to JF and pulls it down and runs. some guys come in and take over from day one. some don't. just don't see the aaron rodgers in him as of yet and how much time does this core team have to wait?
I think he will improve if he doesn't get injured again this year. Got to try and keep the running to a minimum and learn to pass from the pocket. Need a running game to help him out, and of course the OL must provide adequate protection.
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My gripe with the Johnny -- Russell comparison is that Wilson was an effective pocket passer before he got to the NFL. Petey didn't ask nor did he need to tailor the offense just for Russell to be effective.
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I'm glad we have another Manziel thread.
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My gripe with the Johnny -- Russell comparison is that Wilson was an effective pocket passer before he got to the NFL. Petey didn't ask nor did he need to tailor the offense just for Russell to be effective.
My gripe with the Johnny -- Russell comparison is that Wilson was an effective pocket passer before he got to the NFL. Petey didn't ask nor did he need to tailor the offense just for Russell to be
Indeed he was, that's why he had success. Manziel needs to become an effective pocket passer, and then can hopefully enjoy similar success. That's what I was saying, nothing more, not sure why the gripe?
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JM was so ill-prepared to play in 2014 that he could not help to look better prepared this year. Unfortunately JM 2014 is not the league's QB standard.
He needs to sit and learn behind McCown. That's the posture that a JM who has decided to work at his craft adopted this year. That's the posture that has produced what progress we have seen.
By any objective standard JM is not ready to start.
What's the difference if they are going to run an entirely different offense when he's in? And he most certainly wasn't ready to start after sitting out the entire preseason.
WSS
What's the difference if they are going to run an entirely different offense when he's in?
And he most certainly wasn't ready to start after sitting out the entire preseason.
I'll watch for the "different offense", Steve, but I do not think it is the case. The use of the Pistol appears with JM in, but that does not mean the play calls change. I'll add that IMO the Pistol reduces the effectiveness of Play Action which should be an integral part of our offense.
Entire pre-season? He played in good chunks of games one and two. One pre-season game is what effectively what would have been added had his elbow not flared up. That would not have made an appreciable difference in his readiness to start the season.
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Valid point Tiam but even at A & M Manziel was improving as a pocket passer. If he continues in this area I think he can be a Russell Wilson type qb.
Gruden QB camp: Johnny Manziel 3/27/14Biggest improvement: pocket passing
Entering the 2013 season, Todd McShay broke down Manzielβs film and noted that he needed to βupgrade his accuracyβ and βbecome more disciplined as a pocket passer."
Manziel passing inside pocket
Last 2 seasonsIn 2013, Manziel increased his completion percentage by almost 2 full percentage points (to 69.9 percent) despite increasing his average pass distance from 8.4 yards per attempt to 9.1 yards per attempt. Only three FBS quarterbacks had a higher completion percentage than Manziel's last season.
Looking just at passes from inside the pocket, Manziel led all AQ quarterbacks with a 73.5 percent completion percentage. While his interceptions were up last season, so too were his passing touchdowns and 20-yard completions from inside the pocket.
Greatest strength: improvisation
Manzielβs highlight reel is filled with plays in which he is forced to improvise. Whether he is scrambling for a first down on third-and-long or running around the backfield before completing a deep pass, Manziel has a knack for making plays when things break down.
Johnny Manziel on scrambles
Last 2 seasonsIn fact, over the past two seasons, Texas A&M gained 2,546 yards as a result of Manziel's scrambling. If you subtracted those yards from Texas A&Mβs total, the Aggies would have gone from the third-most yards in the nation to 26th.
On third down specifically, Manziel scrambled for 30 first downs over the past two seasons, 14 more than any other AQ player. He also converted 55 percent of his third-down passing plays when forced out of the pocket, which is more than twice the rate of the AQ average (25 percent).
As a result, Manziel led the Football Bowl Subdivision with a 97.0 third-down Total QBR since the start of last season.
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never like the johnny pick. really didn't like the way he came in and shit the bed last year after all his hype.
what i've seen of him so far this year i like. he's looks the part in the huddle and is now showing leadership and humility. just wondering if this is him topped out? he has the arm. he has the mobility but like my pitbull i think he has some things hard wired into his sytem where when the shit starts flying he reverts back to JF and pulls it down and runs. some guys come in and take over from day one. some don't. just don't see the aaron rodgers in him as of yet and how much time does this core team have to wait?
never like the johnny pick. really didn't like the way he came in and shit the bed last year after all his hype.
what i've seen of him so far this year i like. he's looks the part in the huddle and is now showing leadership and humility. just wondering if this is him topped out? he has the arm. he has the mobility but like my pitbull i think he has some things hard wired into his sytem where when the shit starts flying he reverts back to JF and pulls it down and runs. some guys come in and take over from day one. some don't. just don't see the aaron rodgers in him as of yet and how much time does this core team have to wait?
Reversion under pressure is something any golfer can attest to... get shit worked out on the range and it runs back there when the heat is on... and it keeps running back until it doesn't. You have to go back to the range again and again to keep finding "it". You cannot find it on the golf course.
No better football example this year than Tebow. All that work on his mechanics, and they did look much better, but by the time of his last serious audition the improvements were gone.
JM is fortunate in that it is not his mechanics that need fixing... it's his head. And he has made mighty strides in that area.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
never like the johnny pick. really didn't like the way he came in and shit the bed last year after all his hype.
what i've seen of him so far this year i like. he's looks the part in the huddle and is now showing leadership and humility. just wondering if this is him topped out? he has the arm. he has the mobility but like my pitbull i think he has some things hard wired into his sytem where when the shit starts flying he reverts back to JF and pulls it down and runs. some guys come in and take over from day one. some don't. just don't see the aaron rodgers in him as of yet and how much time does this core team have to wait?
Reversion under pressure is something any golfer can attest to... get shit worked out on the range and it runs back there when the heat is on... and it keeps running back until it doesn't. You have to go back to the range again and again to keep finding "it". You cannot find it on the golf course.
No better football example this year than Tebow. All that work on his mechanics, and they did look much better, but by the time of his last serious audition the improvements were gone.
JM is fortunate in that it is not his mechanics that need fixing... it's his head. And he has made mighty strides in that area.
Reversion under pressure is something any golfer can attest to... get shit worked out on the range and it runs back there when the heat is on... and it keeps running back until it doesn't. You have to go back to the range again and again to keep finding "it". You cannot find it on the golf course.
No better football example this year than Tebow. All that work on his mechanics, and they did look much better, but by the time of his last serious audition the improvements were gone.
JM is fortunate in that it is not his mechanics that need fixing... it's his head. And he has made mighty strides in that area.
I just don't see him as an NFL QB.. He looks small and he plays even smaller.. He panics far too much and takes off with the ball far too often.. He hangs receivers out to dry and in a real bad way, where guys are gettin clobbered, as soon as they get the ball.. He relies too much on the hot reads and seldom leads a WR open. I feel he's more suited for 3rd down tail back.. thats My honest opinion.. some people dont like that.. But if were really being honest.. This kid has no business being an NFL QB.. Tail back?.. yes!
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Of course Seattle have had to tailor their offense to fit Wilson, been doing it since he joined, they are brilliantly coached.
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no. they had everything in place before wilson got there. it was plug and play.
ys, great coaching but if anything wilson added to seattle's O repertoire by being a steady game-managing QB with the ability to run to the sticks. i don't see them adjusting because of wilson.
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Nice find Diehard. I've been saying for some time, never count this kid out. He does not give up as easy as some fans do. He will give everything he's got to turn the team around. If he makes mistakes it will always be on the side of trying to do too much, unlike some who are there just to collect a paycheck. That's why Josh likes him so much. They are peas in a pod.
Nice find Diehard. I've been saying for some time, never count this kid out. He does not give up as easy as some fans do. He will give everything he's got to turn the team around. If he makes mistakes it will always be on the side of trying to do too much, unlike some who are there just to collect a paycheck. That's why Josh likes him so much. They are peas in a pod.
As I said elsewhere Ag, I didn't like what I saw last year out of JF, this year is a different story. He figured it out- you can't possibly be a top NFL quarterback and a party animal at the same time. 40 years ago that was a different story.
The plan is to make JFF something like Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers or Big Ben - pocket passer first, but with great ability to make things happen from broken plays, ability to pick up yardage with his legs at times, but not play 'turkey bowl' football like he had a tendency to in Texas.
At least, that's what I'd imagine, and seems to be their plan.
This Manziel is too small to be a pocket passer is bull. People here are saying Russell Wilson is a "pocket passer" and he's around an inch shorter than JF.
I just don't see him as an NFL QB.. He looks small and he plays even smaller.. He panics far too much and takes off with the ball far too often.. He hangs receivers out to dry and in a real bad way, where guys are gettin clobbered, as soon as they get the ball.. He relies too much on the hot reads and seldom leads a WR open. I feel he's more suited for 3rd down tail back.. thats My honest opinion.. some people dont like that.. But if were really being honest.. This kid has no business being an NFL QB.. Tail back?.. yes!
Regarding your comments about Manziel as a quarterback Nickers- that's what rookie quarterbacks tend to do. For all intents and purposes, this is Johnny's rookie year. Guys like Andrew Luck are a once in a decade occurrence. At least for now, I'm willing to give him more time to develop.
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Nice find Diehard. I've been saying for some time, never count this kid out. He does not give up as easy as some fans do. He will give everything he's got to turn the team around. If he makes mistakes it will always be on the side of trying to do too much, unlike some who are there just to collect a paycheck. That's why Josh likes him so much. They are peas in a pod.
As I said elsewhere Ag, I didn't like what I saw last year out of JF, this year is a different story. He figured it out- you can't possibly be a top NFL quarterback and a party animal at the same time. 40 years ago that was a different story.
The plan is to make JFF something like Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers or Big Ben - pocket passer first, but with great ability to make things happen from broken plays, ability to pick up yardage with his legs at times, but not play 'turkey bowl' football like he had a tendency to in Texas.
At least, that's what I'd imagine, and seems to be their plan.
This Manziel is too small to be a pocket passer is bull. People here are saying Russell Wilson is a "pocket passer" and he's around an inch shorter than JF.
I just don't see him as an NFL QB.. He looks small and he plays even smaller.. He panics far too much and takes off with the ball far too often.. He hangs receivers out to dry and in a real bad way, where guys are gettin clobbered, as soon as they get the ball.. He relies too much on the hot reads and seldom leads a WR open. I feel he's more suited for 3rd down tail back.. thats My honest opinion.. some people dont like that.. But if were really being honest.. This kid has no business being an NFL QB.. Tail back?.. yes!
Regarding your comments about Manziel as a quarterback Nickers- that's what rookie quarterbacks tend to do. For all intents and purposes, this is Johnny's rookie year. Guys like Andrew Luck are a once in a decade occurrence. At least for now, I'm willing to give him more time to develop.
This Manziel is too small to be a pocket passer is bull. People here are saying Russell Wilson is a "pocket passer" and he's around an inch shorter than JF.
Regarding your comments about Manziel as a quarterback Nickers- that's what rookie quarterbacks tend to do. For all intents and purposes, this is Johnny's rookie year. Guys like Andrew Luck are a once in a decade occurrence. At least for now, I'm willing to give him more time to develop.
Larry.. He struggles to see over his line.. I'm just not buying it with this kid..He's not even calculating like a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers (players with a chess board mentality).. I'm just not seeing it from him.
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
This Manziel is too small to be a pocket passer is bull. People here are saying Russell Wilson is a "pocket passer" and he's around an inch shorter than JF.
Regarding your comments about Manziel as a quarterback Nickers- that's what rookie quarterbacks tend to do. For all intents and purposes, this is Johnny's rookie year. Guys like Andrew Luck are a once in a decade occurrence. At least for now, I'm willing to give him more time to develop.
Larry.. He struggles to see over his line.. I'm just not buying it with this kid..He's not even calculating like a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers (players with a chess board mentality).. I'm just not seeing it from him.
Larry.. He struggles to see over his line.. I'm just not buying it with this kid..He's not even calculating like a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers (players with a chess board mentality).. I'm just not seeing it from him.
LOL! And how long did Brees and Rodgers sit on the bench before they became starters? You do know Brees is now 36 years old, right? And why does the shorter Brees see over the lines better than the 1 inch taller JM? Sorry, not buying any of your logic on JM. He's a rookie with last year as given trash. You expect a 28-30 year old player out of a 22 year old. Not gonna happen overnight. Growing pains for a fan base extremely short on patience (understandably so). But JM is NOT responsible for all that has happened since the Browns came back home. He IS responsible for last year and all indications are he is not only owning up to it, but trying his best to become an asset to Cleveland. Start trying to find what he does right and how he improves from week to week.
There is a reason the term Monday morning quarterbacking came into being.
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Johnny fanboy here. Back for more.
Wilson and Manziel:
1. Obviously, these guys are totally different people, and I think Wilson's mindset and lifestyle made it easier for him to succeed early. Wilson coming out of college was relatively unknown (nationally) and probably still thought he had a lot to prove. Johnny was put on a pedestal and thought he could continue his partying ways and still "wreck" the NFL. He found out the hard way.
2. Wilson has always been a more risk-averse guy, stable, make a "good" play. Johnny has always been more of a risk-taker. He wants to make a "great" play. This almost cost him the starting job at A&M his Heisman season. He got better securing the ball, though, and went on to be the starter and win the Heisman.
3. Though roughly the same height, Wilson is much thicker and is a stronger runner. Johnny is probably a little more elusive, but I don't see him breaking many tackles when NFL players get their hands on him.
SOOOO....
I don't think Johnny will ever play much like Wilson. This does not mean he can't be successful, but he needs a lot of work. Last Sunday was his 4th game of action, not much to go on. I've always thought he resembled a Jeff Garcia type, and would love it if he reaches that success level, but it took Garcia many years to get to that level.
I continue to hold out hope he will figure it out and succeed. If he could just get that first win, I think it would change things immensely. Confidence is/was a big part of his game, and he has little to none right now.
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Larry.. He struggles to see over his line.. I'm just not buying it with this kid..He's not even calculating like a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers (players with a chess board mentality).. I'm just not seeing it from him.
LOL! And how long did Brees and Rodgers sit on the bench before they became starters? You do know Brees is now 36 years old, right? And why does the shorter Brees see over the lines better than the 1 inch taller JM? Sorry, not buying any of your logic on JM. He's a rookie with last year as given trash. You expect a 28-30 year old player out of a 22 year old. Not gonna happen overnight. Growing pains for a fan base extremely short on patience (understandably so). But JM is NOT responsible for all that has happened since the Browns came back home. He IS responsible for last year and all indications are he is not only owning up to it, but trying his best to become an asset to Cleveland. Start trying to find what he does right and how he improves from week to week.
There is a reason the term Monday morning quarterbacking came into being.
LOL! And how long did Brees and Rodgers sit on the bench before they became starters? You do know Brees is now 36 years old, right? And why does the shorter Brees see over the lines better than the 1 inch taller JM? Sorry, not buying any of your logic on JM. He's a rookie with last year as given trash. You expect a 28-30 year old player out of a 22 year old. Not gonna happen overnight. Growing pains for a fan base extremely short on patience (understandably so). But JM is NOT responsible for all that has happened since the Browns came back home. He IS responsible for last year and all indications are he is not only owning up to it, but trying his best to become an asset to Cleveland. Start trying to find what he does right and how he improves from week to week.
There is a reason the term Monday morning quarterbacking came into being.
you can go back to texas .. He blows dognutz
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LOL! And how long did Brees and Rodgers sit on the bench before they became starters? You do know Brees is now 36 years old, right? And why does the shorter Brees see over the lines better than the 1 inch taller JM? Sorry, not buying any of your logic on JM. He's a rookie with last year as given trash. You expect a 28-30 year old player out of a 22 year old. Not gonna happen overnight. Growing pains for a fan base extremely short on patience (understandably so). But JM is NOT responsible for all that has happened since the Browns came back home. He IS responsible for last year and all indications are he is not only owning up to it, but trying his best to become an asset to Cleveland. Start trying to find what he does right and how he improves from week to week.
There is a reason the term Monday morning quarterbacking came into being.
you can go back to texas .. He blows dognutz
you can go back to texas .. He blows dognutz
There are some really good arguers here. Then there are those who compose posts like this.
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What's the difference if they are going to run an entirely different offense when he's in?
And he most certainly wasn't ready to start after sitting out the entire preseason.
I'll watch for the "different offense", Steve, but I do not think it is the case. The use of the Pistol appears with JM in, but that does not mean the play calls change. I'll add that IMO the Pistol reduces the effectiveness of Play Action which should be an integral part of our offense.
Entire pre-season? He played in good chunks of games one and two. One pre-season game is what effectively what would have been added had his elbow not flared up. That would not have made an appreciable difference in his readiness to start the season.
I'll watch for the "different offense", Steve, but I do not think it is the case. The use of the Pistol appears with JM in, but that does not mean the play calls change. I'll add that IMO the Pistol reduces the effectiveness of Play Action which should be an integral part of our offense.
Entire pre-season? He played in good chunks of games one and two. One pre-season game is what effectively what would have been added had his elbow not flared up. That would not have made an appreciable difference in his readiness to start the season.
Well then chunks in the first two completely meaningless preseason games with the future UPS delivery men should be more than enough. I stand corrected. More than enough to earn a few weeks off.
WSS
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Touche'...
As for the further above...
Agree, war, not all comments are created equal...
Agree... JM does not have the same mindset as Wilson, but he needs to and I think he's moving in that direction thanks to McCown.
Drew Brees may be the best "short" QB ever. He overcomes his height liability by slipping around in the pocket to find sight lanes that become throwing lanes. Also helps that he looks for clues as to the coverage rather than surveys the field for open WRs. JM is nowhere near there... yet... but is showing signs of moving in that direction.
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When we drafted Manziel I read many sports articles comparing him to Russell Wilson. Then he had his disastrous rookie season with many of his self inflicted problems. For me it's is not that he had a super great game Sunday against the Jets (he didn't) but for the first time I saw the potential he has of being a Wilson type quarterback. I read where former NFL quarterback Roger Staubach said Manziel had Wilson type capabilities (IF) he got his life turned around:
βIf he really truly gets his life back on track, his talent is Russell Wilson-type talent,β Staubach told USA Todayβs Jim Corbett. βSo size isnβt the overwhelming issue for him when you have Russell and Drew Brees winning Super Bowls at the same size.β
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This Manziel is too small to be a pocket passer is bull. People here are saying Russell Wilson is a "pocket passer" and he's around an inch shorter than JF.
Regarding your comments about Manziel as a quarterback Nickers- that's what rookie quarterbacks tend to do. For all intents and purposes, this is Johnny's rookie year. Guys like Andrew Luck are a once in a decade occurrence. At least for now, I'm willing to give him more time to develop.
Larry.. He struggles to see over his line.. I'm just not buying it with this kid..He's not even calculating like a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers (players with a chess board mentality).. I'm just not seeing it from him.
Larry.. He struggles to see over his line.. I'm just not buying it with this kid..He's not even calculating like a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers (players with a chess board mentality).. I'm just not seeing it from him.
Ag beat me to it- Brees is exactly the same height- look it up if you doubt us. If JM learns how to use sight lanes, as Tour suggested- he'll be fine. BTW, Brian Sipe was one inch taller than Manziel- if you think that makes a difference, I'd say not. The difference this year is Manziel figured he has to be "all in". on learning how to be a pro quarterback- or he's going to be out the door- fast.
you can go back to texas .. He blows dognutz
Everyone is entitled to their opinion here.
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