Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Well....here is how Johnny should view this: Mano a Mano vs. Mariota. Heisman winner vs. Heisman winner.
The Little Rat (an affectionate nickname I am calling JFF...because that is what he looks like to me) needs to take it as a challenge.
He won the Heisman 2 years before MM....and he should feel that it is HE and not the newbie that should represent the Heisman club best here.
So, do you think The Little Rat has the gonads to gnaw on that piece of cheese?
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Well at least this year we're polarized over his play on the field...
All I am saying is that my early, first viewing estimate of the improvement JM displayed in Game 1 was vastly over stated. I haven't given up hope, but I'd be lying if I said that the elbow development did not concern me. How can a developing QB develop if he has to be put on a pitch count? And JM still has a very long way to go...
What JM did well were the hot reads. I think he was 3 for 3 in finding the target left by the blitzing DB. He also froze the Safety on one occasion by looking directly at him before coming off to his primary, Hawk on 2nd and goal in what turned out to be our FG drive. Unfortunately he could not pull the trigger on a throw to the back pylon.
As for his elbow... the tape shows why it was likely sore as hell Monday. Mechanically he fell apart in the game. I saw two, only two, throws where he actually strode to his target: the Q3 strike in the half's first series to Hart on 3rd and 9, and an 8-yarder to Gabe on a slant in the 2nd play of our last possession. Otherwise he was flying open with shoulders and hips like... and I do not say this lightly... like bad Brian Hoyer. The difference being that JM has the arm strength to get away with poor mechanics more often than BH. However, in addition to the strain on his arm the poor feet hurt his accuracy.
I won't get into his "pocket presence" except to say that never in 2014 did I grade our O-line with straight "+" across the board on a play that ended in a strip sack.
Lastly, when JM's defenders start blaming our defense...
Well at least this year we're polarized over his play on the field...
All I am saying is that my early, first viewing estimate of the improvement JM displayed in Game 1 was vastly over stated. I haven't given up hope, but I'd be lying if I said that the elbow development did not concern me. How can a developing QB develop if he has to be put on a pitch count? And JM still has a very long way to go...
What JM did well were the hot reads. I think he was 3 for 3 in finding the target left by the blitzing DB. He also froze the Safety on one occasion by looking directly at him before coming off to his primary, Hawk on 2nd and goal in what turned out to be our FG drive. Unfortunately he could not pull the trigger on a throw to the back pylon.
As for his elbow... the tape shows why it was likely sore as hell Monday. Mechanically he fell apart in the game. I saw two, only two, throws where he actually strode to his target: the Q3 strike in the half's first series to Hart on 3rd and 9, and an 8-yarder to Gabe on a slant in the 2nd play of our last possession. Otherwise he was flying open with shoulders and hips like... and I do not say this lightly... like bad Brian Hoyer. The difference being that JM has the arm strength to get away with poor mechanics more often than BH. However, in addition to the strain on his arm the poor feet hurt his accuracy.
I won't get into his "pocket presence" except to say that never in 2014 did I grade our O-line with straight "+" across the board on a play that ended in a strip sack.
Lastly, when JM's defenders start blaming our defense...
As usual Tour some good analysis. I don't have a dog in the fight with the quarterbacks , just want to see the Browns win and I give credit for the effort Manziel has given this season. I was hoping McCown would start believing he gives us the best chance to win with his veteran experience but since Manziel will start I'm hoping he can keep turnovers down and we have a running game to help him. We really need this game against the titans and cannot afford to start the season 0-2. Manziel is capable of leading the team to a win Sunday but we cannot turn the ball over.
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Ag, that's gonna get old real fast...
Just sayin'...
OK tour (and others). I'll switch to that OL. No run game. No offense. That's how it works.for running teams. You want an effective QB, then give him a running game that is a real threat. It did not show up in game 1.
For the record the RB's had 46 yds on 20 carries and the QB's (excluding the call backs) had 58 yds on 8 carries. What's wrong with this picture?
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Ag, that's gonna get old real fast...
Just sayin'...
OK tour (and others). I'll switch to that OL. No run game. No offense. That's how it works.for running teams. You want an effective QB, then give him a running game that is a real threat. It did not show up in game 1.
For the record the RB's had 46 yds on 20 carries and the QB's (excluding the call backs) had 58 yds on 8 carries. What's wrong with this picture?
OK tour (and others). I'll switch to that OL. No run game. No offense. That's how it works.for running teams. You want an effective QB, then give him a running game that is a real threat. It did not show up in game 1.
Crow needs holes to run through, there weren't a hell of a lot of them that I could see, but I didn't study the tapes so to speak. What do you say Tour?
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As for Hoge,, I don't mind him having an opinion, that's what he's paid to do. It's the vitriol that oozes from him when he talks about Johnny that I don't like. It's unprofessional and ugly.
Again, he's played 9 quarters at age 22. He is improving and will continue to improve. Whether he can ever be an NFL winning qb remains to be seen, but it's definitely too early to call Hoge right.
Success will breed success for Johnny, as I've said before. If he can play well, help the team win a game, his confidence will grow and he can build on that.
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Nevertheless tour, it would be nice if the D lived up to the billing and not allow a go ahead score just before halftime or an answering TD after we score the first TD.
There was so much invested about our "top 5" D, that I actually began to buy it. I have significantly lowered those expectations.
Same goes for this "running team" behind our "top 5" O line. Where the hell was it?
I won't try to say JM had a good 2nd half because he didn't. But no one can tell me our D was stellar or that the OL was opening holes for the running game either. Lines win football. Ours did not.
Nevertheless tour, it would be nice if the D lived up to the billing
Agreed.....
And, REALLY, wish Johnny would live up to his billing.....Ive heard a LOT more about how great he is than I have about our D....
Now....if we could just find a QB who elevates those around him, as opposed to one who needs a great D, great O line, great WR's and a great running game to succeed......
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I pray the Browns bring the defense with them this time.
I pray the Browns bring the defense with them this time.
This shouldn't matter. If the defense isn't great hopefully Johnny won't start to do too much and commit bad turnovers that cause the game to snowball out of control.
This should be a good test of where he is - full week to prepare, game plan, tape of mistakes from last week to learn from his mistakes. Damn it would be nice if he just came out and kicked ass.
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I can live with the QB struggles last week. Our starter got hurt and Manziel was thrown in there with very limited practice lime. Hopefully he'll be better prepared this week.
What I don't get are the struggles we had on the O-line and the defense in general. Didn't we fix those areas? Didn't we focus on our linemen (both sides) during the offseason???
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I pray the Browns bring the defense with them this time.
This shouldn't matter. If the defense isn't great hopefully Johnny won't start to do too much and commit bad turnovers that cause the game to snowball out of control.
This should be a good test of where he is - full week to prepare, game plan, tape of mistakes from last week to learn from his mistakes. Damn it would be nice if he just came out and kicked ass.
This shouldn't matter. If the defense isn't great hopefully Johnny won't start to do too much and commit bad turnovers that cause the game to snowball out of control.
This should be a good test of where he is - full week to prepare, game plan, tape of mistakes from last week to learn from his mistakes. Damn it would be nice if he just came out and kicked ass.
Agree....we had a lot of problems last week.....but in the end, the excessive turnovers are what really cost us.....
The D played pretty well in the first half, but eventually wore down.....short fields and even shorter rests will do that.....
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As for Hoge,, I don't mind him having an opinion, that's what he's paid to do. It's the vitriol that oozes from him when he talks about Johnny that I don't like. It's unprofessional and ugly.
Again, he's played 9 quarters at age 22. He is improving and will continue to improve. Whether he can ever be an NFL winning qb remains to be seen, but it's definitely too early to call Hoge right.
Success will breed success for Johnny, as I've said before. If he can play well, help the team win a game, his confidence will grow and he can build on that.
As for Hoge,, I don't mind him having an opinion, that's what he's paid to do. It's the vitriol that oozes from him when he talks about Johnny that I don't like. It's unprofessional and ugly.
Again, he's played 9 quarters at age 22. He is improving and will continue to improve. Whether he can ever be an NFL winning qb remains to be seen, but it's definitely too early to call Hoge right.
Success will breed success for Johnny, as I've said before. If he can play well, help the team win a game, his confidence will grow and he can build on that.
Agree with all this. I didn't have as much problem with the criticism by Hoge as I did with the ugly almost taking it personal way he was doing it. I think it is too early to tell yet if Manziel will be a good NFL quarterback or not. His work ethic and attitude this year though gives him a much better chance of succeeding.
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This shouldn't matter. If the defense isn't great hopefully Johnny won't start to do too much and commit bad turnovers that cause the game to snowball out of control.
This should be a good test of where he is - full week to prepare, game plan, tape of mistakes from last week to learn from his mistakes. Damn it would be nice if he just came out and kicked ass.
Agree....we had a lot of problems last week.....but in the end, the excessive turnovers are what really cost us.....
The D played pretty well in the first half, but eventually wore down.....short fields and even shorter rests will do that.....
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I think that Josh might have given the team a better chance to win if he's a hundred percent. Experience and how good he looked until he got hurt makes me think that's the edge. On the other hand if Johnny is the future he has to start sometime because you probably learn better in the game than you do with mental reps. And he's had a week to work with the first offense for the first time the entire season.
If he wins on Sunday it should be a great boost for the whole team and a great learning experience for him.
WSS
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Nevertheless tour, it would be nice if the D lived up to the billing
Agreed.....
And, REALLY, wish Johnny would live up to his billing.....Ive heard a LOT more about how great he is than I have about our D....
Now....if we could just find a QB who elevates those around him, as opposed to one who needs a great D, great O line, great WR's and a great running game to succeed......
Agreed.....
And, REALLY, wish Johnny would live up to his billing.....Ive heard a LOT more about how great he is than I have about our D....
Now....if we could just find a QB who elevates those around him, as opposed to one who needs a great D, great O line, great WR's and a great running game to succeed......
LOL! Send this on to Famous Jameis. He'll be happy to know he is the reason they suck.
On second thought send it to Carr, twatwater and Bortles too. They all obviously suck.
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Agreed.....
And, REALLY, wish Johnny would live up to his billing.....Ive heard a LOT more about how great he is than I have about our D....
Now....if we could just find a QB who elevates those around him, as opposed to one who needs a great D, great O line, great WR's and a great running game to succeed......
LOL! Send this on to Famous Jameis. He'll be happy to know he is the reason they suck.
On second thought send it to Carr, twatwater and Bortles too. They all obviously suck.
LOL! Send this on to Famous Jameis. He'll be happy to know he is the reason they suck.
On second thought send it to Carr, twatwater and Bortles too. They all obviously suck.
except for carr they all pretty much do suck.
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It's incredible how many different ways one play can be looked at, depending on agenda.
Bill "qb guru" O'Brien just said starting Hoyer was mistake, FYI.
Funny enough when I watched that same play I saw a QB lock in on his first read, didn't look off the safety and pulled a Derek Anderson - one read wonder.
I saw the same thing Tour did. A QB that decided where he was going long before the ball was thrown. Lucky Crow was peaking, if not that's a pbu or int.
It's not luck. And it wasn't his "first read", it was play design. They knew Jets would be playing to stop first down and would be sending pressure. Manziel took three steps and fired the ball. Benjamin for past Cro, and the safety was flat footed/parellel and watching the 1st down marker.Funny enough when I watched that same play I saw a QB lock in on his first read, didn't look off the safety and pulled a Derek Anderson - one read wonder.
I saw the same thing Tour did. A QB that decided where he was going long before the ball was thrown. Lucky Crow was peaking, if not that's a pbu or int.
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Agreed.....
And, REALLY, wish Johnny would live up to his billing.....Ive heard a LOT more about how great he is than I have about our D....
Now....if we could just find a QB who elevates those around him, as opposed to one who needs a great D, great O line, great WR's and a great running game to succeed......
LOL! Send this on to Famous Jameis. He'll be happy to know he is the reason they suck.
On second thought send it to Carr, twatwater and Bortles too. They all obviously suck.
LOL! Send this on to Famous Jameis. He'll be happy to know he is the reason they suck.
On second thought send it to Carr, twatwater and Bortles too. They all obviously suck.
Im positive I didnt say that Johnny is the reason our team played poorly....I said he didnt raise the level of play....big difference...
I simply listed all the excuses you have put out there so far.....
And Im also sure I didnt say anything about Jameis.....though he started out about as bad as Johnny did....but how that has any bearing on Johnny is beyond me...????
And, I wouldnt say they all sucked.....Carr and Twatwater at least were good enough to play their first season....... and Carr & Bortles were both on a really bad teams.....and they all looked better than Johnny.....by miles and miles....
except for carr they all pretty much do suck.
pretty much....
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Concussion protocol, just the way it goes.
I have no doubt McCown gives us the better chance to win, but the NFL doesn't mess around with any head injuries anymore.
People are overly excited for Manziel and I'm not sure why. Hopefully he tears it up and we get a W at home though. I'll probably be tailgating @ the muni lot.
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Concussion protocol, just the way it goes.
I have no doubt McCown gives us the better chance to win, but the NFL doesn't mess around with any head injuries anymore.
People are overly excited for Manziel and I'm not sure why. Hopefully he tears it up and we get a W at home though. I'll probably be tailgating @ the muni lot.
Concussion protocol, just the way it goes.
I have no doubt McCown gives us the better chance to win, but the NFL doesn't mess around with any head injuries anymore.
People are overly excited for Manziel and I'm not sure why. Hopefully he tears it up and we get a W at home though. I'll probably be tailgating @ the muni lot.
People want to see how he will do in his first full game.....after a year under his belt.....after rehab.
I don't know that overly excited is the right term. (perhaps for a few Johnny fanboys).
Overly curious is more like it.
He is, after all, right now, THE starting Quarterback of the Cleveland Browns.....and we want anyone holding that position to do well.
If it were Austin Davis, I would be equally curious.
If things turn bad....we may see Ausome Austin in there, no?
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Mud-they are not excuses but an attempt to make this a team loss and not another scapegoating of a Browns QB. Our lines (and I count the OLB's as a part of that in the 3-4) sucked on both sides of the ball. This was a team loss but many here are insisting it's JM's loss. I have never denied he made a lot of mistakes the second half. But I don't throw him under the bus for a poorly playing TEAM. We could not run, we dropped passes, we could not set the edge and we could not stop Marshall. Yes, our QB also had some ball security problems. But the loss was not his alone. And if we want him to succeed then the whole team needs to do it's job, not just JM. Bottom line-how about we blame the whole damn team. They sucked.
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