Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Still kind of a '68 throwback look? That's what the 2015 Mustangs reminded me of...
Well, what is it?
IIRC...
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Faded said:
I think he likes Manziel, and likes things about Manziel. He just can't quite accept that, after clawing his way up through the coaching ranks, starting with an 8 year high school stint, to assume his position as one of the chosen 32 NFL elite, that now he has to tie his fortunes to this unpredictable, devil-may-care kid who hasn't quite been able to clear up his acne yet, but thinks nothing about heaving a 50 yard improvisation with the game on the line.
Most of these guys are control freaks, or they wouldn't have gotten to where they are.
LOL-Sumlin can be his empathetic counselor. He had the same reservations with that redshirt freshman, but took a chance over a more established soph (now on the Dallas PS). All it got Sumlin was the best A&M season record and highest ranking since Bear Bryant days in the 50's and a Heisman QB that has landed him not 1, but three 5***** rated QB's spaced one year apart. Oh, and a little ole trophy from whipping up on his Oklahoma mentor in the Cotton Bowl with a new $5mil per year contract to boot.
At least Pet has come to call it "Vintage Manziel" and can admit there is actually something called "an IT factor".
Farve was exactly the same and was JM's idol growing up.
Faded said:
No coach is ever going to admit making a decision based on what the fans want, but they feel the pressure whether they admit it or not.
I don't think Pettine really wants to start Manziel.
He seemed pretty reserved on commenting about the decisive TD, and really had to be coaxed to go into much detail about it. To me, he seemed more interested in talking about the fumbles (as you pointed out). He is still wary of Manziel.
NFL coaches have collectively gotten so risk-averse and group-think oriented that any kind of deviation from the conventional wisdom is almost unthinkable. I think Pettine's not ready to give this kid the car keys, but feels himself being backed into that corner. I admit, that's some speculation on my part, but it's how I read it.
Very clear eyed analysis... some thought on it essentially in reverse order.
Any between the lines reads are speculative by definition... but that's where much of the Monday thru Thursday fun lies.
Gonna disagree slightly on your group-think comment as I see one major division right off... Offensive minded vs. Defensive minded HCs. D-minded coaches, like Pet come with a whole extra helping of risk adverse.
Agree on the final TD... the whole "coaching is overrated" reveal was not really meant as a complement. However, the praise for JM feeling the pressure and spinning out was genuine. His focus was on why a play call that was made anticipating the blitz they got missed picking up two blitzers.
Agree that Pet has a preference for McCown, if he can go. I expect OAK to be a tougher opponent than TN, but not so much so that it could set back JM's progress.
No HC is ever going to admit that fan pressure played a role in a decision, but the absence of such an admission does not mean it was a factor...
LOL-Sumlin can be his empathetic counselor. He had the same reservations with that redshirt freshman, but took a chance over a more established soph (now on the Dallas PS). All it got Sumlin was the best A&M season record and highest ranking since Bear Bryant days in the 50's and a Heisman QB that has landed him not 1, but three 5***** rated QB's spaced one year apart. Oh, and a little ole trophy from whipping up on his Oklahoma mentor in the Cotton Bowl with a new $5mil per year contract to boot.
As you've told us many times, Ag... Sumlin did not have a Defense so he did not have a choice...
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Worth noting that the Jets beat the shit out of Andrew Luck on his own field last night. One fumble and 3 INT.
Worth noting that the Jets beat the shit out of Andrew Luck on his own field last night. One fumble and 3 INT.
Could be the Jets were under rated.
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Could be the Jets were under rated.
That would make me feel much better about our loss.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Too dumb to understand it then, but yes I went to the 1956 first win ever over the Longhorns in Memorial Stadium in Austin. I was only 9 so I did not recall all the details other than it was high scoring for that era (34-21). Crow (HB) and Pardee (FB and LB) were unstoppable that day.
Damn, Ag... no idea you were born-in-the-forties old...
I wasn't even a gleem in a parental eye...
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i remember being a teenager and looking at people and thinking 'holy shit that person is old'. now i look at teenagers and realize they are thinking the same thing about me.
tick tock........
no need to dig me up though. have enough of my super powers left to self implode (or light a match next to me when i get some 30 year old scotch
that'll do it) -
I agree faded but before they can do that he has to fix the fumble problem. He even admitted he fumbled with both hands on the ball in the Titans game and could not understand what had gone wrong. Pet will not entrust him until he has that totally under control. We all know turnovers kill. On the other side of the coin, Josh also fumbled on the goal line doing his best JF imitation. So that puts Pet in a bit of a decision quandary doesn't it.
Faded said:
You're not really going to know what you have (or don't have) with this kid until you put him in the drivers seat and open it up a little. The play calling in the 3rd quarter (and I usually hate to listen to boorish fans complaining incessantly about the offensive coordinator and the play calling like it's a "Paydirt" board game) was absolutely designed to get what it got: nothing.
They drafted a high risk/ high reward guy. At some point, I think they will have to embrace that do some degree if they really want to evaluate his potential. Even with the ball security issues, I don't think they will be improved by watching from the sideline.
Yet that is exactly where JM has improved the most to this point. I don't see the bludgeoning the Jets handed him and us as being all that developmental.
The admittedly conservative play calling actually did two things that I saw...
1. Ate clock... it's not like they were all 3-and-outs...
2. Took a first step towards establishing a piece of the team identity Pet wants... an offense that puts the game away by being able to run with the lead, late in the game, when the opponent knows you are going to run.
As for opening it up... I'd say JM did that late on his own and to great effect. But playcall-wise you do what the game demands. We ran well. We got strong D and ST. We got quality QB play out of a limited game plan. And we got a win.
I agree faded but before they can do that he has to fix the fumble problem. He even admitted he fumbled with both hands on the ball in the Titans game and could not understand what had gone wrong. Pet will not entrust him until he has that totally under control.
Pet also said I understand that a tomahawk-chopping DL coming from a QBs blind side is going to put the ball on the ground no matter the grip two hands can put on the ball held by a QB still looking to throw. The key bit there is Pet seeing "two-hands" all the time when danger is near.
Faded said:
There are risks both ways. I still say you find out what you have this season. I don't think this team goes to the playoffs with McCown anyway. If he proves me wrong, fantastic. I certainly like the guy. But even then, what do you do next year? Is McCown back at 37? Do you draft another first round QB? Do you have any more idea what the path forward is than you did this year? And it's one more season of limited reps for Manziel.
If McCown is anything other than sterling, the clamor for Manziel will be off the chart. It's the nature of things.
But as with Hoyer last year, McCown's performance is going to have to slide to a level where the Johnny downside is seen by the Staff as being not much worse. Then, and only then, do I see the keys being handed over.Until then, just as last year, it's clamor be damned. I mean, what can you point to last year that shows Pet even hears the clamor, let alone let's it pick his starting QB?
Do you see it as more likely that we make the playoffs with JM at the helm? Your answer should go far towards determining who you start Game 3. By Game 9 it may be a whole different circumstance... and eight games should provide more than enough data.
Absolutely McCown back at 37, if healthy, but I doubt as the starter. More likely as the mentor-backup... maybe even JM's mentor-backup... As Pet said in his presser, "We think over the natural course of events we'll find out."
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Faded said:
No coach is ever going to admit making a decision based on what the fans want, but they feel the pressure whether they admit it or not.
I don't think Pettine really wants to start Manziel.
He seemed pretty reserved on commenting about the decisive TD, and really had to be coaxed to go into much detail about it. To me, he seemed more interested in talking about the fumbles (as you pointed out). He is still wary of Manziel.
NFL coaches have collectively gotten so risk-averse and group-think oriented that any kind of deviation from the conventional wisdom is almost unthinkable. I think Pettine's not ready to give this kid the car keys, but feels himself being backed into that corner. I admit, that's some speculation on my part, but it's how I read it.
Very clear eyed analysis... some thought on it essentially in reverse order.
Any between the lines reads are speculative by definition... but that's where much of the Monday thru Thursday fun lies.
Gonna disagree slightly on your group-think comment as I see one major division right off... Offensive minded vs. Defensive minded HCs. D-minded coaches, like Pet come with a whole extra helping of risk adverse.
Agree on the final TD... the whole "coaching is overrated" reveal was not really meant as a complement. However, the praise for JM feeling the pressure and spinning out was genuine. His focus was on why a play call that was made anticipating the blitz they got missed picking up two blitzers.
Agree that Pet has a preference for McCown, if he can go. I expect OAK to be a tougher opponent than TN, but not so much so that it could set back JM's progress.
No HC is ever going to admit that fan pressure played a role in a decision, but the absence of such an admission does not mean it was a factor...
LOL-Sumlin can be his empathetic counselor. He had the same reservations with that redshirt freshman, but took a chance over a more established soph (now on the Dallas PS). All it got Sumlin was the best A&M season record and highest ranking since Bear Bryant days in the 50's and a Heisman QB that has landed him not 1, but three 5***** rated QB's spaced one year apart. Oh, and a little ole trophy from whipping up on his Oklahoma mentor in the Cotton Bowl with a new $5mil per year contract to boot.
As you've told us many times, Ag... Sumlin did not have a Defense so he did not have a choice...
Gonna disagree slightly on your group-think comment as I see one major division right off... Offensive minded vs. Defensive minded HCs. D-minded coaches, like Pet come with a whole extra helping of risk adverse.
As you've told us many times, Ag... Sumlin did not have a Defense so he did not have a choice...
Both very true statements. And Summy is very much an offensive minded guy who was smart enough to go get a premier D coordinator this year. That way he can keep right on running his Mississippi gambler style of offense. Funny he has a pro-style QB now, but a JM II in Kyler Murray and another JM III committed in 2017 from where else? Las Vegas Bishop Gorman. LOL.
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Well.....Im just glad Im not the one who has to decide......if it was a debate, I could provide a strong argument either way.....
If Pettine is lucky, Josh wont recover in time to properly prepare for the game(just soon enough to be active as back up)....then, he wont have to pick.....
Im expecting Johnny......here are some interesting words from Pettine today.....interpret as you will.....
On Josh....."Josh has been outstanding. Anybody that knows him knows how genuine he is, how passionate he is about football and about his teammates, and just wanting to win regardless of what his role is. That was a big part of our discussion when he came in for his free agent visit. He wanted to not only be considered the quarterback, but also mentor the young guys in the room and he's exceeded those expectations. It's like having another coach in the room."
So, those words were not.....Josh starts if hes healthy.....
On Johnny....."He has been really good. He's dialed in. He takes it from the meeting room to the walk through to the practice field and it showed up in the game."
Sounds like an endorsement to me.....
Well.....Im just glad Im not the one who has to decide......if it was a debate, I could provide a strong argument either way.....
If Pettine is lucky, Josh wont recover in time to properly prepare for the game(just soon enough to be active as back up)....then, he wont have to pick.....
Im expecting Johnny......here are some interesting words from Pettine today.....interpret as you will.....
On Josh....."Josh has been outstanding. Anybody that knows him knows how genuine he is, how passionate he is about football and about his teammates, and just wanting to win regardless of what his role is. That was a big part of our discussion when he came in for his free agent visit. He wanted to not only be considered the quarterback, but also mentor the young guys in the room and he's exceeded those expectations. It's like having another coach in the room."
So, those words were not.....Josh starts if hes healthy.....
On Johnny....."He has been really good. He's dialed in. He takes it from the meeting room to the walk through to the practice field and it showed up in the game."
Ah the NFL Network interview... did seem like a little "precautionary reason-ish" rationale paving...
Josh has got to clear protocol... and soon. Last week we might have gotten away with Josh practicing starting Friday, but this week? a week further removed from him playing? I'm not seeing that... I like Josh. I'm in the more-like-Chicago-than-TB crowd, but we're not talking Rogers here... he's not a QB that can step in on game day after the better part of 2 weeks.
If not today he has to clear and practice tomorrow in my mind...
No doubt whatsoever that Pet likes what he is seeing this year... especially in contrast to what I imagine he was hearing last year. Turns out it was a good year to decide to get more involved in the offense...
"It's good to be the King."
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Well.....Im just glad Im not the one who has to decide......if it was a debate, I could provide a strong argument either way.....
If Pettine is lucky, Josh wont recover in time to properly prepare for the game(just soon enough to be active as back up)....then, he wont have to pick.....
Im expecting Johnny......here are some interesting words from Pettine today.....interpret as you will.....
On Josh....."Josh has been outstanding. Anybody that knows him knows how genuine he is, how passionate he is about football and about his teammates, and just wanting to win regardless of what his role is. That was a big part of our discussion when he came in for his free agent visit. He wanted to not only be considered the quarterback, but also mentor the young guys in the room and he's exceeded those expectations. It's like having another coach in the room."
So, those words were not.....Josh starts if hes healthy.....
On Johnny....."He has been really good. He's dialed in. He takes it from the meeting room to the walk through to the practice field and it showed up in the game."
Ah the NFL Network interview... did seem like a little "precautionary reason-ish" rationale paving...
Josh has got to clear protocol... and soon. Last week we might have gotten away with Josh practicing starting Friday, but this week? a week further removed from him playing? I'm not seeing that... I like Josh. I'm in the more-like-Chicago-than-TB crowd, but we're not talking Rogers here... he's not a QB that can step in on game day after the better part of 2 weeks.
If not today he has to clear and practice tomorrow in my mind...
No doubt whatsoever that Pet likes what he is seeing this year... especially in contrast to what I imagine he was hearing last year. Turns out it was a good year to decide to get more involved in the offense...
"It's good to be the King."
Ah the NFL Network interview... did seem like a little "precautionary reason-ish" rationale paving...
Josh has got to clear protocol... and soon. Last week we might have gotten away with Josh practicing starting Friday, but this week? a week further removed from him playing? I'm not seeing that... I like Josh. I'm in the more-like-Chicago-than-TB crowd, but we're not talking Rogers here... he's not a QB that can step in on game day after the better part of 2 weeks.
If not today he has to clear and practice tomorrow in my mind...
No doubt whatsoever that Pet likes what he is seeing this year... especially in contrast to what I imagine he was hearing last year. Turns out it was a good year to decide to get more involved in the offense...
"It's good to be the King."
Yea if McCown misses practice for 1/2 the week I could see the Johnny start being more likely.
But I'm pretty surprised McCown didn't get cleared today - after reports saying he was fine early last week. I understand the rigorous concussion protocol, but it seems like it may be the browns preference to keep him out as a "precaution."
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After Sunday’s game Manziel answered a question about Hoge by saying, “Merril Hoge will always be Merril Hoge.”In an interview with a Cleveland radio station after Manziel’s comment Friday, Hoge pledged to wear a brown and orange tie if Manziel lit it up in Sunday’s game vs. the Titans. Manziel only completed eight passes, but the touchdowns of 50 and 60 yards qualify as such.If Hoge is a man of his word, there will be one really big orange and brown knot on your television screen Sunday night.
After Sunday’s game Manziel answered a question about Hoge by saying, “Merril Hoge will always be Merril Hoge.”In an interview with a Cleveland radio station after Manziel’s comment Friday, Hoge pledged to wear a brown and orange tie if Manziel lit it up in Sunday’s game vs. the Titans. Manziel only completed eight passes, but the touchdowns of 50 and 60 yards qualify as such.If Hoge is a man of his word, there will be one really big orange and brown knot on your television screen Sunday night.As promised, Hodge did wear the orange tie.
You mean like at the 50 second mark of this?
You nailed it Tour- that was 2014 Johnny.
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I agree faded but before they can do that he has to fix the fumble problem. He even admitted he fumbled with both hands on the ball in the Titans game and could not understand what had gone wrong. Pet will not entrust him until he has that totally under control. We all know turnovers kill. On the other side of the coin, Josh also fumbled on the goal line doing his best JF imitation. So that puts Pet in a bit of a decision quandary doesn't it.
Faded said:
You're not really going to know what you have (or don't have) with this kid until you put him in the drivers seat and open it up a little. The play calling in the 3rd quarter (and I usually hate to listen to boorish fans complaining incessantly about the offensive coordinator and the play calling like it's a "Paydirt" board game) was absolutely designed to get what it got: nothing. The defense was playing well and they won, so you can't second guess them too much, but I think going into a shell like that definitely contributed heavily to Manziel's struggles in the second half.
Being at the the game- everyone I was with, including myself-agreed with your bolded comments. "Here we go again, sit on a lead, play not to lose, and let the Titans get back in the game." Got anything against passing on first down, Flip? I have nothing against ball control- if it's working, and scoring points.
I agree faded but before they can do that he has to fix the fumble problem. He even admitted he fumbled with both hands on the ball in the Titans game and could not understand what had gone wrong. Pet will not entrust him until he has that totally under control. We all know turnovers kill. On the other side of the coin, Josh also fumbled on the goal line doing his best JF imitation. So that puts Pet in a bit of a decision quandary doesn't it.
JM does need to have better pocket awareness- but when one of the big uglies does a tomahawk chop on the ball- you'd have to be Superman to hold on to it.
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Faded said:
You're not really going to know what you have (or don't have) with this kid until you put him in the drivers seat and open it up a little. The play calling in the 3rd quarter (and I usually hate to listen to boorish fans complaining incessantly about the offensive coordinator and the play calling like it's a "Paydirt" board game) was absolutely designed to get what it got: nothing. The defense was playing well and they won, so you can't second guess them too much, but I think going into a shell like that definitely contributed heavily to Manziel's struggles in the second half.
Being at the the game- everyone I was with, including myself-agreed with your bolded comments. "Here we go again, sit on a lead, play not to lose, and let the Titans get back in the game." Got anything against passing on first down, Flip? I have nothing against ball control- if it's working, and scoring points.
I agree faded but before they can do that he has to fix the fumble problem. He even admitted he fumbled with both hands on the ball in the Titans game and could not understand what had gone wrong. Pet will not entrust him until he has that totally under control. We all know turnovers kill. On the other side of the coin, Josh also fumbled on the goal line doing his best JF imitation. So that puts Pet in a bit of a decision quandary doesn't it.
JM does need to have better pocket awareness- but when one of the big uglies does a tomahawk chop on the ball- you'd have to be Superman to hold on to it.
Being at the the game- everyone I was with, including myself-agreed with your bolded comments. "Here we go again, sit on a lead, play not to lose, and let the Titans get back in the game." Got anything against passing on first down, Flip? I have nothing against ball control- if it's working, and scoring points.
JM does need to have better pocket awareness- but when one of the big uglies does a tomahawk chop on the ball- you'd have to be Superman to hold on to it.
But he is Superman. Revealed at the 2:14 mark. LOL! Or you can just look at the picture here.
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After Sunday’s game Manziel answered a question about Hoge by saying, “Merril Hoge will always be Merril Hoge.”In an interview with a Cleveland radio station after Manziel’s comment Friday, Hoge pledged to wear a brown and orange tie if Manziel lit it up in Sunday’s game vs. the Titans. Manziel only completed eight passes, but the touchdowns of 50 and 60 yards qualify as such.If Hoge is a man of his word, there will be one really big orange and brown knot on your television screen Sunday night.
As promised, Hodge did wear the orange tie.
You mean like at the 50 second mark of this?
You nailed it Tour- that was 2014 Johnny.
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I live near Sun City and I'm always cussing out "all those old people" who drive cars and grocery carts like they are the only damn person on the earth. They shouldn't let anyone over 65 have a license to drive either one. Except me. 🥷
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left turn signal on for 20 miles down the highway doing 40.
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left turn signal on for 20 miles down the highway doing 40.
Yep-thems the ones. Or as my grandson has observed, "Gramp, none of those people turning into Sun City from the highway ever uses their turn signal."
I told him it's because they could not hear or see them inside the car anyway.
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That would make me feel much better about our loss.
Not for a Head to Head Wildcard. not a good loss in AFC overall
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