Can we all agree now that this defense needs tore the fuck up?

[Mudfly]

The D is really disappointing....for sure....some of the same culprits from last season....and a few unexpected ones too....

First....the expected......Our OLBs are playing terrible(again).....Mingo, Orchard and Kruger aint getting it done....cant seal an edge for their lives or help out in the run game....and offering exactly "zero" in terms of pass rush....weak last year and weak this year.....THIS is problem #1......

Honestly think the D line has improved....a lot!....though Des Bryant still sucks(only 1 tackle and nothing else so far).....But I do see Shelton and Starks as GREAT adds and expect they will continue to improve.....but the line cant do it all and the OLB's are making it too easy just to bounce outside and run.......

And the real culprits are the guys we all thought were so good.....Gipson, Haden and Whitner.....all 3 are playing poorly and it's really costing us.....In fact, according to PFF, they are the lowest rated Browns defenders(supposedly our 3 best players, pro bowlers, etc etc)....the glimmer of hope is that they have a history of playing well, so gotta hope they find their game and get back on track.....though they are being asked to do WAY too much, because the OLB's cant stop shit......Whitner leads the team in tackles(and missed tackles), but he's trying to do Krugers job.....Same can be said for Gipson and Mingo.....Gonna give props to Traymon Williams though, cause he has played really well.....and, as a side note, Desir was our top rated DB this week.....

Last draft I had OLB as our #1 need.....and Im sticking to that.....its glaring......

[Clevfan4life]

stop looking at PFF's mud, lol. I dont' care what some stat page says, NONE of our guys are really passing the eye test wth flying colors save perhaps Armonty "for now". None of our guys are ever really in the proper position and you can see it. It might not show in the stats, but these guys are playing lost in the tall weeds.

[darubes]

One of the most telling statistics I saw about the defense

in this game was this: Not only were the Browns not credited

with a sack they were not even credited with a QB hit. NO

QB HITS. That is hard to imagine.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I'll have to go back and rewatch, since it was my birthday weekend and I was slightly inebriated during the game...but from memory:

Haden is a shell of his former self.

Mingo does not deserve to be on an NFL field.

If not for Tramon Williams, I'd rate our defensive backfield in the bottom 10 of the league.

Our LB corps is incapable of filling or meeting backs at the line.

Our edge presence is negligible at best.

DB's and OLB's seem more content with taking on a block than attempting a tackle.

There were multiple occasions where Oakland would run off tackle and our OLB's would backpedal, ride the block and try to usher the RB toward the sideline rather than attack, hold ground, and force the RB to pick a lane. Same goes for playside DB's.

All around, I'd say our defense played in the 28th- 32nd in the league range.

[Clevfan4life]

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I'll have to go back and rewatch, since it was my birthday weekend and I was slightly inebriated during the game...but from memory:

Haden is a shell of his former self.

Mingo does not deserve to be on an NFL field.

If not for Tramon Williams, I'd rate our defensive backfield in the bottom 10 of the league.

Our LB corps is incapable of filling or meeting backs at the line.

Our edge presence is negligible at best.

DB's and OLB's seem more content with taking on a block than attempting a tackle.

There were multiple occasions where Oakland would run off tackle and our OLB's would backpedal, ride the block and try to usher the RB toward the sideline rather than attack, hold ground, and force the RB to pick a lane. Same goes for playside DB's.

All around, I'd say our defense played in the 28th- 32nd in the league range.

Dead on the money right about the LB'ers meeting RB's at the line. I think I've seen it like less than 5 times over the last 2 years and half of that was from Robertson.

[Clevfan4life]

right on about OLB'ers too, watching Kruger stunt inside and getting washed out of the play as the RB takes the corner....it's just hard to watch anymore. There's no hard identity to this defense. Kruger is not a standup OLB'er, shoehorning him into this defense is horrible as he ends up doing nothing all that good. Also right on Mingo, always gettin run over.

[calfoxwc]

I guess the ratbirds should throw out their hc and entire defense and start all over again...

because they gave up 37 pts to Oakland.....

[miktoxic]

@bbedward said:

McCown threw 50 times. Can't win a game like that, something has to change in the oline and run game fast.

nailed it.

[Clevfan4life]

They'll rebuild just give it a few years. They can do so on the fly.

[sky]

Unfortunately I cannot agree the defensive players don't have skills to do better. being bad. The coaching staff in their infinite wisdom has changed the roles of a couple of players. When you see the leading defensive sack OLB going from only 2 sacks away from an all time Browns record last year to only 1/2 sack this year to date you need to look beyond the players. IF the fans start watching you can see the coaches have definitely changed Kruger's role and I would guess he's not happy about it. Bryant although he has 2 sacks is not a Paul Kruger. This coaching staff can't seem to take the talent they have and get it locked in. You don't see Houston changing the role of their OLB. If that position isn't broke, and I would say it wasn't broke last year then don't try to fix it.

When is the last time you saw a safety blitz from the Browns ? When's the last time you saw some well planned stunts. Coaching Coaching Coaching and Play calling. The coaches haven't got it together.

Look at the call in the second quarter to go for it on 4 down instead of taking the 3 points when your only down 2 scores, your going to get the ball in the 2nd half kickoff and your offense was week all first half. Yea coach go for it !!! Duh ! Thank goodness there was a penalty and we got 3. Not to mention the mental positive of scoring before the half than coming up empty.

When your quarterback is misfiring on all cylinders in the first quarter and shows no signs of improvement pull him and give #2 a try. You do it in every other position why not QB.

THIS IS COACHING AT IT'S WORST UNFORTUNATELY IF COMES TO LIGHT ON THE FIELD. The main objective of the coach is to give his team EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO WIN. Seems Browns coaches have this backward !!!

[nickers]

I still don't understand the reasoning for Phil Taylor not being here. While he was not the greatest NT.,, He wasn't the worst. And I still think he could've helped the Browns.. Another dumb move by Farmer.

[tiamat63]

@nickers said:

I still don't understand the reasoning for Phil Taylor not being here. While he was not the greatest NT.,, He wasn't the worst. And I still think he could've helped the Browns.. Another dumb move by Farmer.

Probably because he would have been out half of the year at minimum? But that's just a solid hunch.

[Manzier]

@nickers said:

I still don't understand the reasoning for Phil Taylor not being here.

Id ask his knee

[tiamat63]

@sky said:

IF the fans start watching you can see the coaches have definitely changed Kruger's role

Do tell?

[Clevfan4life]

Yeah I see them doing different things with Kruger but when he puts his hands down and rushes the edge he's still garbage. In fact his pass rushing skills look to have unimaginably regressed this year. I mean he's right awful. He has ZERO moves now. Armonty Bryant is levels above Kruger in terms of his pass rushing skills.

[Clevfan4life]

Khalil Mack put on a pass rushing clinic, we're lucky he only had two sacks yesterday.

[BrownsKidd]

@clevfan4life said:

Khalil Mack put on a pass rushing clinic, we're lucky he only had two sacks yesterday.

Just remember, Oakland had no sacks prior to playing us. That's telling on both sides.

[Clevfan4life]

@brownskidd said:

Just remember, Oakland had no sacks prior to playing us. That's telling on both sides.

I bet Mack was close if you look at their first 2 games. I'll bet he was disruptive. He didn't just think those moves up Sat night. Plus he was rated the #1 defensive rookie last year, already one of the best run stoppers in the game his freshman year. That's sick. I can see polished pass rushers doing alright their rookie year, but run stopping is a whole nother game. We really really really missed out on a special player.

[Tour2ma]

@jrb12711 said:

I think one guy it's time to examine out there on the field is Whitner. Love the dude and was way solid for several years, but he's starting to lose it now. Misses tackle like crazy, gets beat in coverage a lot, and just doesn't look quick out there. I think he's the best option as of this second but he's also becoming a glaring weakness.

This was the year Whitner was supposed to play within "the system"... not sure if that's a good or a bad thing at this point.

Hated his knocking the Brown off Reese. The one who was actually trying to tackle Reese. It was all in the name of trying to be "Hitner". A lot of big hitters wrapped as they hit so they'd ride the player to the ground... deliver one hit... get one free.

But he made good plays as well. Had Cooper blanketed on one play (shocked me).

After the D held OAK in the 2nd Qtr... Whitner came off the field, helmet off, screaming at the Offense. Then we roughed the Punter. I think that hurt the D as a whole, but it crushed Whitner. He was beaten badly in the resumed series.

@bbedward said:

Defense looks good in flashes, very inconsistent. More often bad than good, though.

Late yes, but for the bulk of the 1st half they held OAK to 3 points. Then gave up the TD on the resumed drive after the roughing. The last drive of the half, following our having to settle for the FG, was total deflation.

[tiamat63]

Brief thought from the rare couple of minutes I've gotten to watch the replay.

The amount of 2 gapping were asking of Shelton, and then players not entirely familiar with this system (Starks in particular) might be a tad of an issue in certain spots. He's holding his own in many instances, however a couple of the bigger runs from the 3 hole aren't because of a lack of effort or ability. He's consistently drawing double teams and its incredible with the lack of QB pressure/disruptions we've seen at other positions given Danny fulfilling his role.