you've got to be showing *major* promise/upside in year 2 in the nfl.....
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@douche-nozzle said:
It's a catch 22. If you fire anybody, you are simply going to fill his position with another no-name coach. Stability is probably the ONLY thing that is going to change the fact that proven players and coaches simply aren't coming to Cleveland.
Even if this collection of coaches and players may not be what you want, history has proven that constant change will maintain the problem that prevents the Browns from improving. If the Browns FO demonstrates that they are willing to build a system, and keep the coaches they have, it will help in the long run; the problem is that Browns fans and media are not interested in the long term. So......in reality, the fans and media are getting what they want......a steady stream of attempts to fix it all this year. It's like playing the lottery as a financial plan.
This is one of the times I appreciate an outsiders point of view and it is the correct one.
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Pettine did inherit a disastrous situation when he took on the Browns HC job. Can you think of any other club in the NFL more disastrous since 99? I can't.
Even though I haven't been happy with the performance in the last 2 losses in both those losses we were in those games until the final seconds. Unfortunately we are finding ways to lose these games instead of winning them.
McCown has come here and done what he is supposed to do. I thought he played well against the Chargers. It is our defense that has been the huge disappointment. It was our defense that lost the game to the Chargers. Our defense that could not take advantage of all the injuries on the Chargers offensive line. Our defense that kept giving up the big plays.
Pettine said he would be more involved on the offense this year but he needs to get more involved with our defense. He chewed out the defense last week against the Raiders saying they looked like the scout team and this week they were even worse.
Pettine did inherit a disastrous situation when he took on the Browns HC job. Can you think of any other club in the NFL more disastrous since 99? I can't.
Even though I haven't been happy with the performance in the last 2 losses in both those losses we were in those games until the final seconds. Unfortunately we are finding ways to lose these games instead of winning them.
McCown has come here and done what he is supposed to do. I thought he played well against the Chargers. It is our defense that has been the huge disappointment. It was our defense that lost the game to the Chargers. Our defense that could not take advantage of all the injuries on the Chargers offensive line. Our defense that kept giving up the big plays.
Pettine said he would be more involved on the offense this year but he needs to get more involved with our defense. He chewed out the defense last week against the Raiders saying they looked like the scout team and this week they were even worse.
Amen-this is not on Josh or the O-it's on the 3rd rate D.
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I'm not convinced our massive problems on defense boils down to talent. There's definitely some coaching problems.
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I'm not convinced our massive problems on defense boils down to talent. There's definitely some coaching problems.
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I see the Browns playing intensely to WIN.
But I wonder if the systems are so complicated, that they
take more time to implement successfully than they planned.
Players like gilbert, and bowe, and a few others, who don't really
give a damn to work and learn, and just want their paycheck.
It will take more time to fix that next year in the draft and FA.
Rivers kept having wr's or TE's get open quickly, often.
Mccown - more like, kept having receivers not get open quickly,
except for Travis - who I think they kept double covering...
and Hartline - who got hurt.
Right now, Bowe is a disaster, anyone on this board, well, except for "why(*", and soju, and
doofus schnozzle (although schnozzle did have a good post his last post....
), a few other trolls, could haverun that play with a hell of a lot more enthusiam than Bowe did. His body language was really bad for the Browns.
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I'm not convinced our massive problems on defense boils down to talent. There's definitely some coaching problems.
There are easier ways to collect a check than returning kick-offs. I'm not willing to lump Gilbert in with Bowe... yet.
I'm not convinced our massive problems on defense boils down to talent. There's definitely some coaching problems.
Misapplying the talent we have? Again, I have to ask: where are the examples of "the system" being adapted to our players?
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Does anyone really think a different scheme would make that big of a difference? I know I've said in the past few weeks that we look to be built more for a 4-3, and maybe we'd see some slight improvement but I doubt it for one major reason...our LB'ers. We might see some slightly better play out of our front 4 if they were rotated properly and kept fresh. But with the exception of Robertson, who's that stud MLB that's gonna fly up into the gap and crush the RB? That guy just isn't on the team. I'd like to see Tank start to get more reps at ILB'er, just to see where he's at. He's been here a long time now, was it Mangini's last year or Shurms first? In any case I heard Pet talking him up so put him out there. We need someone to step up and form tackle runners in the hole, not slough after them once they've broke through the seam. I think our DL makes more pursuit tackles in the run game at this point than our LB'ing corp. I'm sick of this.
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Did Mingo & Kruger even play?
I don't recall their names being mentioned.
Sounds like Bowe isn't the only player doing jack shit for a paycheck this year.
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Tank supposedly is a helluva blitzer and an ST'er should certainly have a fill mentality, but IIRC he can't cover.
I just don't see multifunctional LBs on our roster... especially on the outside.
Situationally guessing for an entire game is not my idea of adapting to the talent you have.
Our first defensive series was electric. But if it was over the moment SD went spread, then be it coaching and/or talent something is seriously wrong. Good Defenses dictate to the Offense.
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I sat Melvin Gordon and played Woodhead on my fantasy team. Because I knew! Last week I played Carr and Murray. It's so obvious it is sickening. No excuses anymore.mthey had no wide receivers and three offensive linemen out. My God?
But I disagree why they don't play Manziel. Pettine would not be worried about his job playing Manziel because technically he's still a rookie until he's played a full year. No, Pettine dislikes Manziel. It's personal not professional.
If Weeden loses tonight I still predict a trade to Dallas.
I sat Melvin Gordon and played Woodhead on my fantasy team. Because I knew! Last week I played Carr and Murray. It's so obvious it is sickening. No excuses anymore.mthey had no wide receivers and three offensive linemen out. My God?
But I disagree why they don't play Manziel. Pettine would not be worried about his job playing Manziel because technically he's still a rookie until he's played a full year. No, Pettine dislikes Manziel. It's personal not professional.
If Weeden loses tonight I still predict a trade to Dallas.
Hope you cleaned up on Draft Kings or Fan Duel
. .
One of the most talented, but under performing defenses I have seen. Someone is to blame. If O'Neil isn't fired, I'd ask for Pettine's resignation
If he's the loyal type, he can head to unemployment line with good guy Jim.
"Words into action"
Undisciplined- nice getting two penalties on one play. Some of the Chargers passes were total blown assignments- no one in the same area code as the pass recipient. I'm still in disbelief- improving the pass rush was a priority in the off season- & after the first series, we were unable to effectively pressure Rivers who was playing behind a makeshift o-line. And we blitzed and stunted plenty. One of Rivers TD passes resulted from a jailhouse blitz, we still couldn't get there in time.
Tank supposedly is a helluva blitzer and an ST'er should certainly have a fill mentality, but IIRC he can't cover.
I just don't see multifunctional LBs on our roster... especially on the outside.
Situationally guessing for an entire game is not my idea of adapting to the talent you have.
Our first defensive series was electric. But if it was over the moment SD went spread, then be it coaching and/or talent something is seriously wrong. Good Defenses dictate to the Offense.
Couldn't adapt to what the Chargers were doing. Linebacker is an ongoing problem. Since we've been bashing the Browns drafting in other threads- just how much would having guys (that we passed on) like Clay Matthews or JJ Watt have helped the cause yesterday?
"He only needs to look at the Browns recent history to realize that pinning the hopes of a franchise on an aging backup journeyman is not the answer and never will be. I give McCown credit he played better than I expected, and if he was 26 and not 36 then it would be a different story. This is a business and it's not always fair ."
I think Why nailed it- .I don't doubt Pettine is going to gush about McCown's play in his presser today. He's not seeing the forest for the trees. I've seen enough of Josh already to tag him with the Vinnie Testaverde quote- "he's just good enough to get you beat." Coupled with a defense that has regressed from last year- it's a recipe for a long and disappointing season.
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Other than IMO Pet is not pinning the "hopes of the franchise" on McC... sure.
The one thing Pet is getting credit for is getting effort out of his team. Those not willing or not capable of putting out the effort are minimized, e.g., Bowe, Gilbert. Put another way, he is putting his best team on the field.
Right now that team includes McC, our bridge QB... and everyone knows that is what Josh is.
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I sat Melvin Gordon and played Woodhead on my fantasy team. Because I knew! Last week I played Carr and Murray. It's so obvious it is sickening. No excuses anymore.mthey had no wide receivers and three offensive linemen out. My God?
But I disagree why they don't play Manziel. Pettine would not be worried about his job playing Manziel because technically he's still a rookie until he's played a full year. No, Pettine dislikes Manziel. It's personal not professional.
If Weeden loses tonight I still predict a trade to Dallas.
Hope you cleaned up on Draft Kings or Fan Duel
. .
One of the most talented, but under performing defenses I have seen. Someone is to blame. If O'Neil isn't fired, I'd ask for Pettine's resignation
If he's the loyal type, he can head to unemployment line with good guy Jim.
"Words into action"
Undisciplined- nice getting two penalties on one play. Some of the Chargers passes were total blown assignments- no one in the same area code as the pass recipient. I'm still in disbelief- improving the pass rush was a priority in the off season- & after the first series, we were unable to effectively pressure Rivers who was playing behind a makeshift o-line. And we blitzed and stunted plenty. One of Rivers TD passes resulted from a jailhouse blitz, we still couldn't get there in time.
Tank supposedly is a helluva blitzer and an ST'er should certainly have a fill mentality, but IIRC he can't cover.
I just don't see multifunctional LBs on our roster... especially on the outside.
Situationally guessing for an entire game is not my idea of adapting to the talent you have.
Our first defensive series was electric. But if it was over the moment SD went spread, then be it coaching and/or talent something is seriously wrong. Good Defenses dictate to the Offense.
Couldn't adapt to what the Chargers were doing. Linebacker is an ongoing problem. Since we've been bashing the Browns drafting in other threads- just how much would having guys (that we passed on) like Clay Matthews or JJ Watt have helped the cause yesterday?
"He only needs to look at the Browns recent history to realize that pinning the hopes of a franchise on an aging backup journeyman is not the answer and never will be. I give McCown credit he played better than I expected, and if he was 26 and not 36 then it would be a different story. This is a business and it's not always fair ."
I think Why nailed it- .I don't doubt Pettine is going to gush about McCown's play in his presser today. He's not seeing the forest for the trees. I've seen enough of Josh already to tag him with the Vinnie Testaverde quote- "he's just good enough to get you beat." Coupled with a defense that has regressed from last year- it's a recipe for a long and disappointing season.
I think Why nailed it- .I don't doubt Pettine is going to gush about McCown's play in his presser today. He's not seeing the forest for the trees. I've seen enough of Josh already to tag him with the Vinnie Testaverde quote- "he's just good enough to get you beat." Coupled with a defense that has regressed from last year- it's a recipe for a long and disappointing season.
McCown did nothing to get us beat yesterday. 27 points put on the board by the offense that he led. Scoring 27 points goes 9-3-1 in the NFL yesterday. It should've been good enough. He's not the future of the franchise but he gives the Browns the best chance to win.
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Other than IMO Pet is not pinning the "hopes of the franchise" on McC... sure.
The one thing Pet is getting credit for is getting effort out of his team. Those not willing or not capable of putting out the effort are minimized, e.g., Bowe, Gilbert. Put another way, he is putting his best team on the field.
Right now that team includes McC, our bridge QB... and everyone knows that is what Josh is.
Other than IMO Pet is not pinning the "hopes of the franchise" on McC... sure.
The one thing Pet is getting credit for is getting effort out of his team. Those not willing or not capable of putting out the effort are minimized, e.g., Bowe, Gilbert. Put another way, he is putting his best team on the field.
Right now that team includes McC, our bridge QB... and everyone knows that is what Josh is.
Hmmm. That statement would leave me to conclude you don't think Manziel put out his best effort his last outing. Otherwise he would be out there with the rest giving their all instead of being minimized.
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Tank supposedly is a helluva blitzer and an ST'er should certainly have a fill mentality, but IIRC he can't cover.
I just don't see multifunctional LBs on our roster... especially on the outside.
Situationally guessing for an entire game is not my idea of adapting to the talent you have.
Our first defensive series was electric. But if it was over the moment SD went spread, then be it coaching and/or talent something is seriously wrong. Good Defenses dictate to the Offense.
Tank supposedly is a helluva blitzer and an ST'er should certainly have a fill mentality, but IIRC he can't cover.
I just don't see multifunctional LBs on our roster... especially on the outside.
Situationally guessing for an entire game is not my idea of adapting to the talent you have.
Our first defensive series was electric. But if it was over the moment SD went spread, then be it coaching and/or talent something is seriously wrong. Good Defenses dictate to the Offense.
If he can smash RB's coming north south, than I give a fuck what his cover skills are.
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Did Mingo & Kruger even play?
I don't recall their names being mentioned.
Sounds like Bowe isn't the only player doing jack shit for a paycheck this year.
Did Mingo & Kruger even play?
I don't recall their names being mentioned.
Sounds like Bowe isn't the only player doing jack shit for a paycheck this year.
I think Mingo played, not sure. BUt yeah Kruger played most of the game. Didn't do shit.
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We were down Haden and D Bryant all game. Gipson went out during the second half.
Haden broke his finger last game, DB was out for the 2nd straight game with an undescribed shoulder injury, Gipson badly sprained his ankle.
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Other than IMO Pet is not pinning the "hopes of the franchise" on McC... sure.
The one thing Pet is getting credit for is getting effort out of his team. Those not willing or not capable of putting out the effort are minimized, e.g., Bowe, Gilbert. Put another way, he is putting his best team on the field.
Right now that team includes McC, our bridge QB... and everyone knows that is what Josh is.
Hmmm. That statement would leave me to conclude you don't think Manziel put out his best effort his last outing. Otherwise he would be out there with the rest giving their all instead of being minimized.
Hmmm. That statement would leave me to conclude you don't think Manziel put out his best effort his last outing. Otherwise he would be out there with the rest giving their all instead of being minimized.
I can see where someone could read that into my post, but was not my intent. With JM it's just a matter of him being the 2nd best QB at the moment.
If he can smash RB's coming north south, than I give a fuck what his cover skills are.
Sure... until he bites on a couple play fakes and gives up quick posts to the slot receiver right where Tank vacated.
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Hmmm. That statement would leave me to conclude you don't think Manziel put out his best effort his last outing. Otherwise he would be out there with the rest giving their all instead of being minimized.
I can see where someone could read that into my post, but was not my intent. With JM it's just a matter of him being the 2nd best QB at the moment.
If he can smash RB's coming north south, than I give a fuck what his cover skills are.
Sure... until he bites on a couple play fakes and gives up quick posts to the slot receiver right where Tank vacated.
I can see where someone could read that into my post, but was not my intent. With JM it's just a matter of him being the 2nd best QB at the moment.
Sure... until he bites on a couple play fakes and gives up quick posts to the slot receiver right where Tank vacated.
Dude I want to see a ball carrier smashed so hard at this point that I could live with your scenario. As long as he makes that slot receiver regret signing up to the play in the NFL at some point during the game one of those quick slants to the inside, i'm ok with biting on a PA. Look I've got lowered expectations at this point. Can one team maybe not run for 200 yds on us?
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i could count on one hand the true browns fans on this board. the rest are a bunch of whiny cunts.
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