Should refs be more strongly punished for missed calls?
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I literally still can't wrap my head around how the Browns managed to blow the game Sunday, so I thought I'd focus my football energy somewhere else for a while. Anywho, if you didn't see it last night the Lions got absolutely screwed out of a chance to win the game. Long-story short, the Seahawks overtly batted the ball out of bounds (and admitted to it after the game) with the ref literally looking dead on at the event; no flag thrown. I'd argue in the game Sunday the refs missed an egregious offensive PI on the Chargers that resulted in a big play on the last drive. Here's my thing: as I noted in another thread before, I can live with what I was label a "missed call". For example, someone held in a big pile of humanity on the line but either was close or easy to just not get a vantage point on. Same with some PI calls, I'm okay with letting them play a little bit even though there might be by definition some PI (on either side). However, refs cannot miss overt calls which have huge impacts on the game without ramifications.
Let me stop here and talk to the people that use the tired argument "one call doesn't make a game, they should have played better to win!". Look I get that to a point, but at the same time fuck that. If the ref makes the overt, obvious call in that Lions game last night they have the ball on the 1 yard line, 1st and Goal to win the game. If the refs call offensive PI on the chargers it's not 2nd and 16 in their own territory instead of 1st and 10 on the Browns side of the field. Calls make an incredible difference in a game, so to say one call doesn't make a difference is very short-sighted to me.
My overall point here is this: if refs are going to throw flags at the level they are this year (literally record high) they need some stiffer punishment for when they mess that up. I'm just curious what you guys think..
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The best answer came from Megatron himself. He took full responsibility for his own mistake and said he could not count on the refs to win a game for him.
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Ironic thing was Megatron's training to tuck the ball away moved it away from the goal line and within Chancellor's reach. If he holds in both hands, stretched out before him as we see in a dozen TD dives every week, then it's a TD.
As for the call... video review. Give coaches the power to challenge calls as well as plays... any call... any time. It's stupid to pretend certain things are reviewable while others are not. Only reason folks are talking about the call was because of the replay showing how purposeful the "nudge" OB was.
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The best answer came from Megatron himself. He took full responsibility for his own mistake and said he could not count on the refs to win a game for him.
The best answer came from Megatron himself. He took full responsibility for his own mistake and said he could not count on the refs to win a game for him.
I mean I get that and respect Johnson for saying that, but my whole point is two wrongs don't make a right. Just like Megatron made a bad mistake, so did the Seattle defender. The only difference is one wasn't actually acted upon.
That picture pretty much says what I'm trying to say.
Ironic thing was Megatron's training to tuck the ball away moved it away from the goal line and within Chancellor's reach. If he holds in both hands, stretched out before him as we see in a dozen TD dives every week, then it's a TD.
As for the call... video review. Give coaches the power to challenge calls as well as plays... any call... any time. It's stupid to pretend certain things are reviewable while others are not. Only reason folks are talking about the call was because of the replay showing how purposeful the "nudge" OB was.
I like the idea of video review but I wonder where the line is drawn on that on more subjective calls.
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The best answer came from Megatron himself. He took full responsibility for his own mistake and said he could not count on the refs to win a game for him.
I mean I get that and respect Johnson for saying that, but my whole point is two wrongs don't make a right. Just like Megatron made a bad mistake, so did the Seattle defender. The only difference is one wasn't actually acted upon.
That picture pretty much says what I'm trying to say.
Ironic thing was Megatron's training to tuck the ball away moved it away from the goal line and within Chancellor's reach. If he holds in both hands, stretched out before him as we see in a dozen TD dives every week, then it's a TD.
As for the call... video review. Give coaches the power to challenge calls as well as plays... any call... any time. It's stupid to pretend certain things are reviewable while others are not. Only reason folks are talking about the call was because of the replay showing how purposeful the "nudge" OB was.
I like the idea of video review but I wonder where the line is drawn on that on more subjective calls.
That picture pretty much says what I'm trying to say.
I like the idea of video review but I wonder where the line is drawn on that on more subjective calls.
Most penalty calls are subjective to some degree. Exceptions that come to mind include: jersey-pulling holds and face-mask grabs, be the latter on runners or tacklers being stiff-armed or even rushers/blockers getting hands to face.
Your photo is the perfect example. In the moment that Ref claims he could not discern "intent"... a purely subjective element. In the photo or the replay there is no question of intent.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
That picture pretty much says what I'm trying to say.
I like the idea of video review but I wonder where the line is drawn on that on more subjective calls.
Most penalty calls are subjective to some degree. Exceptions that come to mind include: jersey-pulling holds and face-mask grabs, be the latter on runners or tacklers being stiff-armed or even rushers/blockers getting hands to face.
Your photo is the perfect example. In the moment that Ref claims he could not discern "intent"... a purely subjective element. In the photo or the replay there is no question of intent.
Most penalty calls are subjective to some degree. Exceptions that come to mind include: jersey-pulling holds and face-mask grabs, be the latter on runners or tacklers being stiff-armed or even rushers/blockers getting hands to face.
Your photo is the perfect example. In the moment that Ref claims he could not discern "intent"... a purely subjective element. In the photo or the replay there is no question of intent.
Fair point on everything, it would lengthen the game but again if they are going to throw 10+ flags a game somethings gotta give when they mess it up that bad.
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He's no beckham ......quite obvious he was not trying to recover it! You know....they have some expert ass that the play-by-play announcers go to, why don't they use him for something that counts? I would love to be paid for some stupid shit as that!
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The point is, that surely all of us have noticed times, in the same game, when
one team gets the calls on penalties... and later, the same fouls are not called.
Subjectivity is one thing, but either you ARE allowed to push off as a receiver...
or you are NOT.
But sometimes called, sometimes not...
is just corruption. I don't see how it's possible to have the ball being thrown where the pushing off takes place,
and no ref sees it.
And other times, it's called. I see this and rewatch the pushing off, and often, the fouls look nearly exactly
the same,
but one called, one not called.
And it really steams me when I see it in a Browns game, like interference/holding against the Browns -fine...
and then overtly holding/interference down the field.........no call.
Same thing with offensive line holding. The Browns have had that called against them, sometimes
so obscurely it's stupid.... yet you can see the other team's oline flagrantly holding, even nearly tackling
from behind....
no call. Something is wrong with certain refs in referee land.
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You ref a game and you don't know all the Rules.. Laughable. Embarrassing. At least Fineable Hey Roger? Send a Am Sorry Letter.. LMFOL
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends Team Brotherhood-"It's not about You,Me or I. It's about building We"..Hue Jackson -
Think that they will not get punished. They may have some kind of immunity deal to allow them not to.
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You ref a game and you don't know all the Rules.. Laughable. Embarrassing. At least Fineable Hey Roger? Send a Am Sorry Letter.. LMFOL
You ref a game and you don't know all the Rules.. Laughable. Embarrassing. At least Fineable Hey Roger? Send a Am Sorry Letter.. LMFOL
I think Mike & Mike said it best yesterday essentially noting it's 2015-we have cameras all over the field and people are watching the game like never before. It makes the whole game look bad when this type of crap happens, so fix it. Start small if you have to like the MLB to review out or safe and build from there. It's just inexcusable to let such a bonehead moment have a huge impact.
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There is no reason to limit what is "reviewable". So much is automatic now, e.g., turnovers, scores, and everything in last 2 minutes or OT, that you just open up the coaches challenges to everything and anything anytime.
Then if refs blow a call in last minute the team that got hosed has the burden of recognizing it as well. The Lions did not know that was the case Monday nite.
And for the process to work, you cannot let the hurry-up defeat it. Especially when "the booth" is responsible for all reviews. You have to delay the next snap long enough to allow a review to happen. Stop the clock and stand over the ball until the booth says "go".
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Its kind of a catch 22 with the penalties now......we all want the calls to go our way.....and with all the cameras and angles we get, it's pretty easy(for us) to see the infractions and the refs errors....
of course, as they say, there is a penalty on every play.....and if we can see it, then we get pissed if it isnt called...but at the same time, we get pissed when the refs are constantly throwing flags....
So, we have 2 choices.....
1) Allow the human element(refs) to continue to call what they see, and there will be errors.....OR....
2) Allow the cameras and refs upstairs to call every play perfectly, and there will be LOTS of flags and stoppages....
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Well, just once, I'd like an explanation to some flagrant fouls that do get called...
and not called. As in, very much the exact same foul. Some of these referees
are blockheads...
we need to replace incompetent referees with some excellent ones...
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Ah...the good ole days...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
You ref a game and you don't know all the Rules.. Laughable. Embarrassing. At least Fineable Hey Roger? Send a Am Sorry Letter.. LMFOL
I think Mike & Mike said it best yesterday essentially noting it's 2015-we have cameras all over the field and people are watching the game like never before. It makes the whole game look bad when this type of crap happens, so fix it. Start small if you have to like the MLB to review out or safe and build from there. It's just inexcusable to let such a bonehead moment have a huge impact.
I think Mike & Mike said it best yesterday essentially noting it's 2015-we have cameras all over the field and people are watching the game like never before. It makes the whole game look bad when this type of crap happens, so fix it. Start small if you have to like the MLB to review out or safe and build from there. It's just inexcusable to let such a bonehead moment have a huge impact.
With all the cameras out their still been many times a ref cannot turn play because it still is inconclusive. But if your only job was to coach special teams the Lions ST coach blew it Too..
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