Skip to content
The Browns Board
Theme
  • System
  • Light
  • Dark
  • Login
  • Register
  • Forums
  • Recent
  • Popular
  • Users
  • Donate
  1. Home
  2. The Browns Board
  3. 2015 O-line Grades: Week 5 @ Ravens

2015 O-line Grades: Week 5 @ Ravens

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Browns Board
21 Posts 8 Posters 952 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • Tour2ma Tour2maT In Memoriam Dedicated Conversation Starter Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done Very Popular
    • 30k Posts
    • 6k Reputation
    Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on last edited by Tour2ma
    #1

    2015 O-line Grades: Week 5 @ Ravens

    This was the first game this season to need more than three pages of my score-sheet. Not coincidentally this write-up is longer than usual.

    There were 13 series with 6 in each half and 1 in OT.

    There were 34 first-half, 43 second-half and 11 OT plays for a total of 88 graded plays.

    Note: Graded plays include plays negated, but unaffected, by penalty.

    Drive Starting Times

    1st Half : S1 - 13:23; S2 - 8:50; S3 - 0:09; (Q2) S4 - 12:46; S5 - 6:47; S6 - 1:03

    2nd Half: S7 - 15:00; S8 - 7:47; S9 - 14:05; (Q4) S10 - 10:58; S11 - 5:56; S12 - 0:25

    Ovrtime : S13 - 13:54

    Weekly Box Count...

    1st : 8+ - 6; 7 - 13; 6 - 10 ; 5 - 4; 4 or less - 1

    2nd: 8+ - 5; 7 - 15; 6 - 23; 5 - 0; 4 or less 0

    OT : 8+ - 6; 7 - 2 ; 6 - 3 ; 5 - 0; 4 or less - 0

    Ttl : 8+ -17; 7 - 30; 6 - 36; 5 - 4; 4 or less - 1

    Four was the lowest box count seen in Game 5. In OT we saw desperation, 9-man fronts.

    Weekly Run Direction...

    Here are our game 2 results from WideLeft to WideRight:

    WL-0 / L-2 / M-12 / R-8 / WR-1

    The Grades

    Back to the old, standard, LT to RT order as JT, with a strong assist from Bito, earned it.

    As I keep saying, I have been surprised many times by who ends up with what total. This week our O-line finished so strong that earlier failures were already out of my head... especially Mack's.

    For the first time this season our interior trio all D+'d on a running play. Maybe the glass is half full.

    Joe Thomas: 1st +12-5 net +7 w/ 1D+&1D-; 2nd +15-3 net +12 w/ 2D+&1D-; OT +2-0 net +2

    Game Totals: +29-8 net +21

    Welcome back to the top of the class, Joe. I can't remember a player racking up more than a +29, but if one has, pretty sure it was JT.

    Joe was really feeling it this week. He looked spry so much so that I suspect he's been nursing some ding the past couple weeks. Look at the depth of his kick-step in this series of images from late in the game (S11P2). He actually kicked three times creating great separation and time to react to the DE's inside rush. While his action is not as pretty... note that Schwartz's drop is equally as quick and deep.

    post-2853-0-99743600-1445030694_thumb.jpgpost-2853-0-87757100-1445030710_thumb.jpgpost-2853-0-67562900-1445030719_thumb.jpgpost-2853-0-35963000-1445030733_thumb.jpg

    Joe's two D-'s came for: losing Dumervil after he spun off of a bull-rush (S2P9) and taking neither of two rushers (S9P3)... psst, Joe... when in doubt, inside-out 😉

    Joe's three D+'s for the week include: handling speed rush (S6P2); a driving, kick-out block at the POA (S8P5); and hanging with a determined rusher who pulled out a speed-bull-speed combo (S11P9). Not only was the combo not effective, the rusher did not get to see Crow's TD catch & run.

    Joel Bitonio: 1st +15-3 net +12 w/ 3D+&1D-; 2nd +22-9 net +13 w/ 5D+&3D-; OT +7-1 w/ 2D+

    Game Totals: +44-13 net +31

    May have jumped the gun congratulating Joe... Is this the same guy that netted a -1 for the game last week? A net +31 off a gross +44 are huge numbers. Please proceed to the head of the class Mr. Bitonio with my apologies.

    I was beginning to suspect that Joel's 2015 performance was being weighed down by Alex. But this week with Alex still struggling, Joels "disappointing" season to date may be more due to a lack of JT inspiration or not. But with a total of 10D+'s, something sure inspired Bito this week. Most of the positives were for strong physical play, whereas the negatives stemmed primarily from reaction or mental lapses.

    Bito posted four D-'s for the second week in a row. Here they are: beaten by outside swim for sack (S5P5); blown back from LOS disrupting ZR run (S8P8); doing nothing as DT swam past Mack in A-gap (S10P5); and missing chip on NT pass rush that Mack needed to get angle (S11P1).

    Here is Joel's D+parade: solid D-line chip plus second level seals (S2P4 and S2P8); pretty reverse seal block and not holding as D pulled away (S4P3); blasting NT to the ground as part of double team with Alex it rocked the NT (S8P1); picking up one LB blitz and then a second LB blitz (S8P5); turning NT to set up AM seal and still getting to 2nd level LB (S8P7); blasting an outside speed rusher trying to spin inside clearing path for McC TD run (S8P14); a beautiful reverse seal on Crows 18-yard run (S11P7); driving turn of DT at POA (S13P2); and POA turn of DT (S13P6).

    This was simply an awesome display of interior line play. I look forward to more of it.

    Alex Mack: 1st +8-14 net -6 w/ 5D-; 2nd +13-17 net -4 w/ 2D+&6D-; OT +5-2 net +3 w/ 1D+

    Game Totals: +26-33 net -7

    Clearly Alex had issues this week. Physically he continues to have issues anchoring against head-on, bull rushes. But in PassPro there was a glimpse of him turning bull-rushers and escorting them past the QB. However, this is the deepest aggregate depth Alex has plunged to yet. He's approaching levels seen by his "substitutes" last year. And as you'll read his mental game continues to be a source of concern. If there is a bright spot, it is that late, with the game in the balance, Alex upped his game. There's no better example than his reaction to CJ Mosely's well-timed, gap shot in OT.

    Last week rightly or wrongly I singled out Alex for missed line calls. I did not do so this week. Whether I simply was better in tune or not, I noticed a lot more calling and pointing this week by both Alex and McC, who stepped up to the line on numerous occasions. This is not to say that all needed calls were made or that when made they were the proper ones they weren't... but the effort to communicate adjustments was far more noticeable this week.

    Here is the week's butcher's bill of D's: blown back during ZRight run (S2P4); one-armed rag-dolled during ZR (S2P8); second level whiff on ZMiddle (S4P1); took wrong man (? My best guess) (S4P2); missed blitz (S6P5); penetration sack (S7P3); ripped by DT pressuring McC (S7P5); went the wrong way on PA (S8P3); failing to deliver needed chip (S8P8); beaten by swim-move for sack (S10P5); and failing to chip (S11P6). Both the late chip omissions doomed Bito to failed assignments. Both omissions seemed to be in favor of getting to second level assignments.

    Alex's 1st D+ came for fighting a rip and escorting the NT safely to the left of McC (S8P12). His 2nd came for textbook chip plus 2nd level effort on our prettiest run of the day, Crow's 18-yd ZM (S11P7) and came right after his last D- of the day. Alex's 3rd and last came for reacting to get a piece of CJ Mosely's great blitz in OT. Alex did not get much of CJ, but he got enough to keep CJ from flattening to Crow... great way to end a disappointing day.

    John Greco: 1st +7-7 net 0 w/ 3D-; 2nd +17-10 net +7 w/ 3D+&1D-; OT +5-2 net +3 w/ 1D+

    Game Totals: +29-19 net +10

    Another game that's two in a row now where John needed a strong 2nd-half to salvage his game total. The good news is that he had a strong 2nd again. The bad news is as this habit develops his consistency title slips away. Greco is doing enough good things as his +29 indicates. He is simply suffering too many minor defeats as his -19 attests. Just needs to tighten up his game a bit.

    D-'s included: stood up and shucked at POA (S4P1); and rag-dolled by DT on was to sack (S8P12). John is normally the most physical of our interior guys with the best ability to anchor, but the Ravens' DT, Guy, gave him problems.

    As was the case last week Greco's four D+'s all came after half-time. Here they are: drove penetrating NT harmlessly away from McC (S9P1); driving POA block on ZR (S9P2); POA turn out on Crow's big run (S11P7); and in OT drove gap filling LB out of the hole (S13P4).

    Mitchell Schwartz: 1st +17-4 net +13 w/ 2D+&2D-; 2nd +13-6 net +7 w/ 1D+&1D-; OT +1-0 net +1

    Game Totals: +31-10 net +21

    Maybe I should have stayed with Mitch in the leadoff spot... More than any other of our O-line, Mitch is getting his totals one point at a time. A plus 30-something gross is rarified air and Mitch is huffing it this week. Were it not for Bito's insane performance, I'd really gush over Mitch's effort. But just like in Fantasy, sometimes it's about how well the other guy does in a given week.

    Historically Schwartz has been a slow starter that rounded into decent form as the season rolls on. This year he started from a higher, better than "decent", level of performance, yet still he has been able to build upon that start... and significantly. True, the Ravens had no test for him (Babin) like he will see this week, but remember he had a damn good game against Khalil Mack a couple weeks ago. With a chip and a prayer, I am looking for a good game from Mitch this week.

    Mitch received D-'s for: getting beaten by a speed rush that ended with a hit on McC (S2P3); failed to make POA block on early ZR (S4P5); and failed to come off double-team with Dray to p/u inside gap blitz by DB, the faster player with the shorter route. Two were recognition/reaction based fails at least the recognition half can be improved.

    Mitch's veritable (for him) D+ deluge came for: a driving POA block on a ZR (S2P4); sealing out speed rushes by a LB with a DB stacked behind him... a twofer (S6P4); and a second, driving, POA block he might have held (the LB was pissed), but it was an inside the pads hold and not called (S9P2). Joe has taught him well.

    Cam Erving: Game Totals: +0-0 net 0

    This is the second game in a row that I did not notice him on the field.

    Other Blockers:

    TEs: Housler shows up... a D+ and a catch in the same game?

    • Barn: +5-5 net 0 w/ 1D+&1D- The D+ was for driving an LB (S8P1); the D- for a cut-off fail vs. Dumervil (S1P2)
    • Dray: +1-6 net -5 w/ 1D- for POA fail on ZR (S2P4). It feels roll is diminishing here.
    • Housler: +3-1 net +2 w/ 1D+ for downfield block on screen to Duke (S8P3).
    RBs: Finally a FB flash
    • M. Johnson: +2-3 net -1 w/ 1D+&1D- Blew up an LB, a season first (S5P4), but knocked Mack of his block (S3P1) well, he hit someone
    • Crow: +4-0 net +4 w/1D+ for sweet, cross-formation, blitz p/u (S7P5) looked to be his best game this year.
    • Duke: +7-0 net +7 w/2D+for CJ blitz p/u (S6P5) and ditto (S8P9). The PassPro is strong in this one
    • Draughn: +0-0 net 0 Inactive.
    • Turbin: +0-0 net 0 ...just a little prep work...
    WRs: More activity this week... happens when RBs actually see the third level...
    • Gabe: +0-0 net 0 Surprisingly nothing noted again for LittleBigBlock
    • Benji: +1-3 net -2 for our most reluctant blocker, but he did screen off a DB one play.
    • Hart: +3-1 net +2 Couple good efforts including one in OT.
    • Hawk: +1-2 w/ 1D- Rare to D a WR either way, but when youre the lead guy for a bubble screen... (S3P2).
    • Bowe: was recovering from his +1 effort in Week 4.
    General Notes:

    1. Our run game

    The better signs continued... Still a couple missed holes, or perhaps a better choice here and there. And there is still not enough patience approaching the line, but better. It did not hurt that the OL opened a few "gaping" holes well maybe two gaping, but more average size ones as well. And it wasn't just their width, it was their depth.

    Flip... I saw another Pistol this week (S9P2). That's two games in a row. Bad, bad, Flip... even if it did go for 5-yards.

    2. Our RB Corps

    Not going to piss and moan this week not with only two RBs dressed and no, I'm not counting MJ. With the new, pass-to-set-up-the-run approach now apparently firmly in place, our RB tandem enjoyed their best game this year. Featuring Crow running and Duke receiving is a combo I could get used to.

    And now comes Turbin? Expect him back this week in a limited role because it appears we can afford to ease him back into action.

    3. Pass Blocking

    As I wrote in a post, even against the vaunted Denver D's front seven, I am optimistic, if our middle three can limit the push up front, then we can chip the edges.

    4. Play action

    Better fakes this week in the relatively few uses of PA... about 6 times by my count. But when we used it, the plays for the most part were sizable including the 57-yard bomb to Gabe.

    5. Hot reads

    Some beauties were on display this week including a critical, short one to Dray in OT. And I'm not even counting the TD to "BigPlay" Barnidge

    6. Snap Counts

    Did not catch any fish this week that I noted.

    7. Prettiest new to me play

    The PAP, roll-right throwback to Barn... it produced that throwback cringe until the panning camera caught up with our wide-open TE. Play was mirror-image reminiscent of the BH to Gabe throw back last year excepting Barn did not fall down trying to field his QB's "punt".

    8. Personnel

    Actually thought I saw a 4WR set this week. Surely I must be mistaken. A TE presence on the field is mandatory.

    10. Fun with Three TEs...

    Fun took a holiday only went 3TEs twice this week... once early (S1P3) and once mid-way-ish (S8P2).

    11. Shifty Flippy

    We rolled out the mass shift once that I saw (S2P7), but late cuts to live action from replays may have kept me from seeing others.

    Revelation(s) of the week:

    I've been meaning to comment on our OL's pre-snap set for a couple weeks now. So this is not a "this week" revelation, but since it feeds right into my rant...

    Last year we set with OGs basically even with Mack and the OTs a half-yard, or so, off... well within the allowed set back to aid intercepting speed rushes. This year only Mack is up. The rest of the line is the full yard allowed of the LOS and so even you'd think they were laser aligned.

    While it looks cool as hell, and I have seen other teams using this set, I am not sure it is for us and our ZBS. I feel that it gives D-line more attack momentum when we slide our line for runs right and left. It may be contributing to one or more of our boys being knocked backwards. Straight ahead, it's great. As long as we get off the ball quickly that added moe is with our boys.

    At any rate it is something I am going to look closer at in coming weeks... but meanwhile...

    Rant of the week: Seven, and only seven, men on the line, please

    With our above formation comes issues with receivers lining up properly and often they are not.

    This has been brewing for a couple weeks now and finally we got called for covering up an eligible receiver. And we did it a lot more in Game 5 without it being called. Bottom line is we are making the Refs work too hard to figure out who is on the ends of our line... with no discernable benefit I can see.

    See pics below for a game I am unoriginally calling: "Whose Line is It Anyway?"

    post-2853-0-30966900-1445032429_thumb.jpgpost-2853-0-23047300-1445032444_thumb.jpgpost-2853-0-76246700-1445032454_thumb.jpg

    Weekly Special Request:

    Reminder: I do take requests. If what you are interested in interests me and/or is not a major time commitment, I may well do it.

    Go Browns

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
    1 Reply Last reply
    👍
    Quote Reply
    • Mark O Mark OM Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
      • 6k Posts
      • 1k Reputation
      Mark OM Mark O wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Great work...

      1 Reply Last reply
      Quote Reply
      • Zombo Z
        • 8k Posts
        • 0 Reputation
        Z Zombo wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Great work.

        But our backup QB drank two beers and argued with his girlfriend, so...

        Z

        1 Reply Last reply
        Quote Reply
        • Tour2ma Tour2maT In Memoriam Dedicated Conversation Starter Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done Very Popular
          • 30k Posts
          • 6k Reputation
          Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Yup... O-line is just a side-show... not worthy of the big tent.

          "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
          1 Reply Last reply
          Quote Reply
          • Zombo Z
            • 8k Posts
            • 0 Reputation
            Z Zombo wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Seriously, though ... I love this stuff.

            I could tell JT was having a monster game, best I have seen from him all year.

            Bit is becoming a legit star at guard.

            ... and you know how I feel about the Schwartz.

            Mack doesn't seem the same to me physically, but he's fighting.

            Z

            1 Reply Last reply
            Quote Reply
            • Tour2ma Tour2maT In Memoriam Dedicated Conversation Starter Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done Very Popular
              • 30k Posts
              • 6k Reputation
              Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on last edited by
              #6

              I know you do, Z... thanks to you and MarkO...

              JT seemed renewed. Ray in for Ware Sunday does not concern me; a healthy Ware might have at least a little. Only a handful of players with the right combo of speed and power have given JT issues. Suggs springs to mind... maybe Harrison in his prime... pretty short list.

              I don't think Von Miller is quite at that level, but in any case I don't see Von stepping up and volunteering to take on JT. Although Ray as a smaller, more "pure speed" guy might actually be the tougher matchup for Mitch. It'll be interesting.

              Bito played pissed. Showed some nasty we'd not seen this year. Maybe he was ridden hard last week for his SD showing. In any case he needs to keep on being nasty.

              It just may be Mack needs another year just as Benji did. As I've said before, could mean he's ours for 2016.

              And then there's John... with it looking like Schwartz is ascending... John may end up being the Ringo of our O-line. Steady Eddie... keep the beat. I was a George guy, but like my right-guard Ringo.

              "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
              1 Reply Last reply
              Quote Reply
              • gumby73 gumby73G Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                • 11k Posts
                • 4k Reputation
                gumby73G gumby73 wrote on last edited by gumby73
                #7

                Great stuff Tour. Glad you caught this new line look. At the game it made it look cool as shit but could only really see JT & Mitch's work. This new line coach ideas? This new line formation looks more of a passing pocket formation? Gives side official of who's lining up offside & it's not us anymore moving? It makes sense on your momentum comment but imo I think it may have helped with our impatient backs that our set up deeper than normal to me. The timing to the hole did look better on tape but some need to get there head up and hit the right hole even if it is the wrong one. but better.Thanks

                Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends Team Brotherhood-"It's not about You,Me or I. It's about building We"..Hue Jackson
                1 Reply Last reply
                Quote Reply
                • Ibleedbrown IbleedbrownI Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                  • 5k Posts
                  • 2k Reputation
                  IbleedbrownI Ibleedbrown wrote on last edited by Ibleedbrown
                  #8

                  Does anyone else have an approach when they read this? Like do you read it straight through or do you shoot straight to what you're dying to know?

                  Lately l been going straight to the Mack grade, then the fullback, then reading the rest. Last year l went straight to the Schwartz. Which sounds gay as hell.

                  I find myself rooting like hell for the weak link, or percieved weak link, and l hate it that it's our Center this year.

                  I think you may be right Tour, and it unfortunately might be a year before Mack is back to his road grading self.

                  Like with Benji, and there's a story down here in Cincyland about one of their D linemen who came back from a leg injury last year, and kinda sucked last year, but is tearing it up this year.

                  Ringo sucked though. Probably the luckiest guy ever in rock n roll, to be that untalented and paired up with those maestros of music, it's like hitting the lottery 5 times over.

                  Tour2maT 1 Reply Last reply
                  Quote Reply
                  • IbleedbrownI Ibleedbrown

                    Does anyone else have an approach when they read this? Like do you read it straight through or do you shoot straight to what you're dying to know?

                    Lately l been going straight to the Mack grade, then the fullback, then reading the rest. Last year l went straight to the Schwartz. Which sounds gay as hell.

                    I find myself rooting like hell for the weak link, or percieved weak link, and l hate it that it's our Center this year.

                    I think you may be right Tour, and it unfortunately might be a year before Mack is back to his road grading self.

                    Like with Benji, and there's a story down here in Cincyland about one of their D linemen who came back from a leg injury last year, and kinda sucked last year, but is tearing it up this year.

                    Ringo sucked though. Probably the luckiest guy ever in rock n roll, to be that untalented and paired up with those maestros of music, it's like hitting the lottery 5 times over.

                    Tour2ma Tour2maT In Memoriam Dedicated Conversation Starter Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done Very Popular
                    • 30k Posts
                    • 6k Reputation
                    Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @ibleedbrown said:

                    Like with Benji, and there's a story down here in Cincyland about one of their D linemen who came back from a leg injury last year, and kinda sucked last year, but is tearing it up this year.

                    Yeah... that would be Geno Atkins... hadn't occurred to me before, but now two-years removed from his knee, he's back at his pre-injury level for the first time.

                    @gumby73 said:

                    This new line formation looks more of a passing pocket formation?

                    It makes sense on your momentum comment but imo I think it may have helped with our impatient backs that our set up deeper than normal to me.

                    Hadn't thought about the backs, but if they are the same depth they've always been, then they're closer to the OGs by a yard. So they'd better be more patient.

                    Thinking about the passing game... not sure if our new look offers anything advantageous in PassPro, but it can potentially keep any WR "on the line" a yard away from any press DB.

                    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
                    1 Reply Last reply
                    Quote Reply
                    • wargograw W One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                      • 5k Posts
                      • 363 Reputation
                      W wargograw wrote on last edited by wargograw
                      #10

                      Yo Tour. I'm exhausted and need to get some sleep before a big day of CFB, so I will review all your commentary as well as post my notes tomorrow, but I just finished my grades so here you go. Final grades are at the bottom.

                      http://snag.gy/DrF5y.jpg

                      On my other board when I use the snag.gy link, it automatically posts the chart of the grades on the actual forum, but looks like that's not supported here so ya'll will have to click on it.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      Quote Reply
                      • Mudfly MudflyM Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Dedicated One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                        • 7k Posts
                        • 1k Reputation
                        MudflyM Mudfly wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Thomas is ageless.....and an amazing player!!!!

                        And folks had him near the end of his rainbow last season????.....HA!.....he's a 7 ft - 300 lb energizer bunny

                        Canton DawgC 1 Reply Last reply
                        Quote Reply
                        • MudflyM Mudfly

                          Thomas is ageless.....and an amazing player!!!!

                          And folks had him near the end of his rainbow last season????.....HA!.....he's a 7 ft - 300 lb energizer bunny

                          Canton Dawg Canton DawgC Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well Week One Done One Month Later One Year In
                          • 12k Posts
                          • 7k Reputation
                          Canton DawgC Canton Dawg wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          @mudfly said:

                          Thomas is ageless.....and an amazing player!!!!

                          And folks had him near the end of his rainbow last season????.....HA!.....he's a 7 ft - 300 lb energizer bunny

                          Is it just me, or does it seem like you see JT on local TV commercials all the time?

                          BTW, great stuff Tour.

                          Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney
                          1 Reply Last reply
                          Quote Reply
                          • Mudfly MudflyM Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Dedicated One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                            • 7k Posts
                            • 1k Reputation
                            MudflyM Mudfly wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Dont look now, but PFF has Thomas rated as the #1 LT and Schwartz rated as the #1 RT in the league....

                            Z Tour2maT 2 Replies Last reply
                            Quote Reply
                            • MudflyM Mudfly

                              Dont look now, but PFF has Thomas rated as the #1 LT and Schwartz rated as the #1 RT in the league....

                              Zombo Z
                              • 8k Posts
                              • 0 Reputation
                              Z Zombo wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              @mudfly said:

                              Dont look now, but PFF has Thomas rated as the #1 LT and Schwartz rated as the #1 RT in the league....

                              Not surprised about Schwartz.

                              Good to see Joe picking up his game.

                              Zombo

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              Quote Reply
                              • MudflyM Mudfly

                                Dont look now, but PFF has Thomas rated as the #1 LT and Schwartz rated as the #1 RT in the league....

                                Tour2ma Tour2maT In Memoriam Dedicated Conversation Starter Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done Very Popular
                                • 30k Posts
                                • 6k Reputation
                                Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                @mudfly said:

                                Dont look now, but PFF has Thomas rated as the #1 LT and Schwartz rated as the #1 RT in the league....

                                Cool... and inside?

                                @wargograw said:

                                On my other board when I use the snag.gy link, it automatically posts the chart of the grades on the actual forum, but looks like that's not supported here so ya'll will have to click on it.

                                Interesting... like to talk a few plays here and there as time permits where we seem to be seeing different things.

                                As for your form... looks like an xls file... did you try uploading it directly to the forum?

                                "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
                                MudflyM W 2 Replies Last reply
                                Quote Reply
                                • Tour2maT Tour2ma

                                  @mudfly said:

                                  Dont look now, but PFF has Thomas rated as the #1 LT and Schwartz rated as the #1 RT in the league....

                                  Cool... and inside?

                                  @wargograw said:

                                  On my other board when I use the snag.gy link, it automatically posts the chart of the grades on the actual forum, but looks like that's not supported here so ya'll will have to click on it.

                                  Interesting... like to talk a few plays here and there as time permits where we seem to be seeing different things.

                                  As for your form... looks like an xls file... did you try uploading it directly to the forum?

                                  Mudfly MudflyM Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Dedicated One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                                  • 7k Posts
                                  • 1k Reputation
                                  MudflyM Mudfly wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  @tour2ma said:

                                  Cool... and inside?

                                  Greco and Bito both have + scores now.....ranked 7th and 9th at their positions.....

                                  Mack is way down the list, at about 20th(and has a neg score)

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  Quote Reply
                                  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

                                    @mudfly said:

                                    Dont look now, but PFF has Thomas rated as the #1 LT and Schwartz rated as the #1 RT in the league....

                                    Cool... and inside?

                                    @wargograw said:

                                    On my other board when I use the snag.gy link, it automatically posts the chart of the grades on the actual forum, but looks like that's not supported here so ya'll will have to click on it.

                                    Interesting... like to talk a few plays here and there as time permits where we seem to be seeing different things.

                                    As for your form... looks like an xls file... did you try uploading it directly to the forum?

                                    wargograw W One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                                    • 5k Posts
                                    • 363 Reputation
                                    W wargograw wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    @tour2ma said:

                                    Cool... and inside?

                                    Interesting... like to talk a few plays here and there as time permits where we seem to be seeing different things.

                                    As for your form... looks like an xls file... did you try uploading it directly to the forum?

                                    How would I do that? Just copy and paste?

                                    Tour2maT 1 Reply Last reply
                                    Quote Reply
                                    • wargograw W One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                                      • 5k Posts
                                      • 363 Reputation
                                      W wargograw wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      By the way Tour, grades can be either a direct grade for the play (0 because you were in pass pro and didn't have to touch anyone) or an average of a play that had multiple parts (double team worthy of a +.5 combined with a chip up to the LB worthy of a -.5 would also be a 0 grade). Don't put too much faith in my box counts. I use the regular broadcast angle and I can't always tell.

                                      Observations:

                                      --S2P2, I gave Joe a -.5 and Bito a .5. Bito blocked his guy into Joe which, combined with the Baltimore player’s punch, threw Joe off balance. I almost gave Joe a 0 thinking it was Bito’s fault, but you really can’t blame the latter as he did a pretty nice job on his man.

                                      --S2P7, hard to determine who whiffed between Mack and Greco. The following people were on the play:

                                      ILB-Comes flying into Mack

                                      What looks like a 1-tech (can’t tell on tape)-Runs outside to Schwartz

                                      Edge man-Drops into coverage

                                      Safety-Blitzes late, runs between Bito and Mack

                                      Play went down pretty quickly. Normally I’d say Mack should release to the safety, giving the ILB to Greco, as Greco had no one to block. Instead, Mack holds onto his man (the ILB), Greco tries (and fails, since it’s so far away) to get a block on the safety, and both the ILB and safety run free to McCown. Perhaps Mack didn’t pass the ILB off to Greco because Greco wasn’t there. Can’t tell. I gave a -1 to Mack and a -.5 to Greco. Would be worse except that I try to adjust for a good play by the defenders, which there was here. Also, maybe the grades should be flipped. Or maybe Greco isn’t at fault at all. That’s why I ask your opinion here.

                                      --Looks to me like Schwartz opens up too deep on some of his pass sets. Our guy at A&M (who is supposed to be drafted pretty high this year) has the same problem (or maybe “problem”), so maybe they’re coached that way, but I doubt it. He opens up so far that by the time he makes contact with the defender, he’s only a few steps ahead of McCown, and the defender’s punch causes him to be even closer to McCown. I think part of the disparity between your grades and mine may be that you're not docking him for that and I am because he gets too close to McCown for comfort, but I'll let you decide.

                                      --Bito’s punch/extension is absolutely devastating. A thing of beauty.

                                      --S4P5, gotta love Joe being locked out by the defender so he tries to get a hand on the guy’s head. Funny.

                                      --S6P5, Joe blocks a guy. Bito blocks a guy. A guy goes between Bito and Mack. Mack lets that guy go to Duke (who does a beautiful job stonewalling him), instead choosing to block no one. Greco has no one to block. Schwartz blocks the edge rusher. Another blitzer runs outside of Joe and pressures McCown. Tour, should I/did you dock Mack for letting Duke pick the guy up? Should Thomas have taken that outside blitzer, Bito take the guy Thomas got, Duke take the guy Bito got, then Mack take the guy Duke got? The grades on this play might be out of whack because of this confusion and I can adjust them later depending on the answer here.

                                      --The initial punch of the noseguard is knocking Mack out of sync WAY too often. Fortunately, he recovers pretty well so it doesn’t have an impact as often as it should, but geez, his whole body just gets rocked back. Though it did seem that the Ravens rushers tended to go for the blockers' facemasks pretty often.

                                      --S8P3, not sure what in the world the Mack, Greco, and Schwartz were attempting to do, but at least Greco and Schwartz did it poorly.

                                      --Tour, is Joe known as having an awkward style? Maybe not awkward, but unconventional? Or if not that, maybe just so-much-better-than-everyone-else-that-it-looks-strange? His back is parallel to the ground in his 2 point stance. Schwartz’s is much closer to a 45 degree angle, as is the vast majority of tackles I’ve ever seen. But what’s more is Joe keeps that head and back so low throughout his pass set that he always has amazing leverage. The whole thing just looks weird compared to most tackles.

                                      -I see Mack not getting off chip blocks quickly enough. Makes for a pretty pancake on the double team, but that LB is making plays pretty consistently.

                                      -Late in the game, Greco got pretty exhausted. His quickness off the snap took a huge hit. Granted, those DTs were very good IMO. But I still docked Greco for coming out of his stance too quickly and that's why you saw a string of negative grades starting in the back half of the last series in regulation. I try to account for as much as possible, so even if you did your job on a given play, if you showed poor form or did not execute fundamentals like proper stance and getoff, I factor that in to the grade.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      Quote Reply
                                      • wargograw W One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                                        • 5k Posts
                                        • 363 Reputation
                                        W wargograw wrote on last edited by wargograw
                                        #19

                                        Reactions to your post compared with mine:

                                        S11P2 which was the first play with pictures in your post, I gave Joe a +1, so we're in lockstep there. In S2P9 where Dumervil got the best of him, you went D-, but I merely gave him a -.5. You mention in S9P3 he didn't block either of two rushers. I have him at -1. Biggest disparity so far is S8P5 and S11P9 where you give Joe D+ and I merely gave him 0. If this discussion warrants, I can take another look at the play and give some rationale.

                                        "If there is a bright spot, it is that late, with the game in the balance, Alex upped his game." This actually kind of scares me, because it supports the "his mind is elsewhere" theory while doing nothing for the more optimistic "maybe he's not yet fully recovered" theory. On S2P4 you gave Alex a D- and this was my only -2 grade for anyone in this game.

                                        We both noticed Mack failing to chip.

                                        Is S8P12 the incompletion to Barnidge with a flag on Baltimore for use of hands? If so, you gave Mack D+ while I gave him -1. I'll have to check that out again. So far that's only the second time I've had a positive or negative and you've had the opposite, which I feel pretty good about so far (assuming you know what you're doing 😛).

                                        I compared our grades so far up to your notes on Mack. I will continue later. You use the word pretty alot. You're not a Mardi Gras Indian, are you? (Props if you get the reference.)

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        Quote Reply
                                        • W wargograw

                                          @tour2ma said:

                                          Cool... and inside?

                                          Interesting... like to talk a few plays here and there as time permits where we seem to be seeing different things.

                                          As for your form... looks like an xls file... did you try uploading it directly to the forum?

                                          How would I do that? Just copy and paste?

                                          Tour2ma Tour2maT In Memoriam Dedicated Conversation Starter Reacting Well Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done Very Popular
                                          • 30k Posts
                                          • 6k Reputation
                                          Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          @wargograw said:

                                          How would I do that? Just copy and paste?

                                          Turns out xls files are not accepted by site.

                                          The upload route is through the post preview page. Click "More Reply Options" to get there. Under the Preview pane is the edit pane, and under the edit pane are the Browse and Upload buttons.

                                          I'm still up for looking at various plays from Week 5 if you are.

                                          "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          Quote Reply

                                          Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.

                                          Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.

                                          With your input, this post could be even better 💗

                                          Register Login
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          Theme
                                          • System
                                          • Light
                                          • Dark
                                          The Browns Board Terms Privacy

                                          The Browns Board is an independent fan community. It is not affiliated with, endorsed by, or sponsored by the Cleveland Browns, Cleveland Cavaliers, Cleveland Guardians, the NFL, NBA, MLB, or any of their affiliates. Team names, logos, and other marks are the property of their respective owners.

                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Forums
                                          • Recent
                                          • Popular
                                          • Users
                                          • Donate