Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Last year JM typically went through his first read progression read, and if the WR isn't open goes into punt return mode.
I only saw him do that once last night.
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He's a career backup at best.
He sees things too late and he has no touch.
He's too damn short and useless in the pocket.
Start McCown, he's better.
Z
Yeah, do that so we can go 3-13.Zombo said:
He's a career backup at best.
He sees things too late and he has no touch.
He's too damn short and useless in the pocket.
Start McCown, he's better.
It was his 4th start in his career. Bottles was horrible last year, now he's coming along. You don't know if someone can make it in the league or not after 4 games.
Z
The season is over, give Manziel the last 8 games and let him grow.
Your 10 - 6 prediction was wrong
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I'm starting to believe the reason Johnny doesn't want to stay in the pocket, is because he can't see over the lineman.
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Fuck it I'll be like tacosman
"Yea the defense was bad but only scored 10 points because our quarterback sux"
"Defense not that big of a problem"
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Yeah, do that so we can go 3-13.Zombo said:
He's a career backup at best.
He sees things too late and he has no touch.
He's too damn short and useless in the pocket.
Start McCown, he's better.
It was his 4th start in his career. Bottles was horrible last year, now he's coming along. You don't know if someone can make it in the league or not after 4 games.
Z
The season is over, give Manziel the last 8 games and let him grow.
Your 10 - 6 prediction was wrong
Yeah, do that so we can go 3-13.
We have Pittsburgh to beat twice if you aren't paying attention.
Mccown's a better quarterback, simple.
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Fuck it I'll be like tacosman
"Yea the defense was bad but only scored 10 points because our quarterback sux"
"Defense not that big of a problem"
Fuck it I'll be like tacosman
"Yea the defense was bad but only scored 10 points because our quarterback sux"
"Defense not that big of a problem"
LOL.
Defense gives up 25 yards, forces punt
Offense goes 3-and-out, punts back
Defense gets back on the field in the same position as they left
Opponents get to continue the drive where they left off
BLAME THE D!
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Yeah, do that so we can go 3-13.Zombo said:
He's a career backup at best.
He sees things too late and he has no touch.
He's too damn short and useless in the pocket.
Start McCown, he's better.
It was his 4th start in his career. Bottles was horrible last year, now he's coming along. You don't know if someone can make it in the league or not after 4 games.
Z
The season is over, give Manziel the last 8 games and let him grow.
Your 10 - 6 prediction was wrong
Yeah, do that so we can go 3-13.
dude we're going to go 3 and 13 no matter who starts at QB.
i liked what i saw from manziel. agree about his command of the offense. also agree that he threw balls of fire to receivers that needed a softer touch. but he looks miles ahead of what he looked like last year.
at this point i really don't care who starts because this season is a wash now. i guess play manziel. if he progresses each game maybe farmer won't have to draft a QB with the first pick. maybe we can actually find someone tall, with speed and can catch the fucking ball. and besides johnson you can tell the rest of the rb crew to hit the bricks.
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halftime comments? really?
now we get the torches and pitchforks out for HALFTIME COMMENTS?
you're lucky he didn't gnaw that bitch's face off after watching his team squander points, field position and make dumb fucking mistakes (again and again).
it'd be a shame for pettine to lose his job given what HE has to work with. all the pro-manziel fans point out that manziel doesn't have anything to work with.....well neither do mccown or more importantly, pettine.
our supposed 'strengths' that we all were hanging our hats on before the season were our OL and the new run-stopping tough as nails defense. both have been laughable.
i'm a big defense guy but if farmer drafted all offensive weapons next year, i wouldn't blink an eye.
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He's a career backup at best.
He sees things too late and he has no touch.
He's too damn short and useless in the pocket.
Start McCown, he's better.
Z
I agree completely! He reminds me of a girl slapping Brady Quinn.Zombo said:
He's a career backup at best.
He sees things too late and he has no touch.
He's too damn short and useless in the pocket.
Start McCown, he's better.
Z
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Yeah, do that so we can go 3-13.
dude we're going to go 3 and 13 no matter who starts at QB.
i liked what i saw from manziel. agree about his command of the offense. also agree that he threw balls of fire to receivers that needed a softer touch. but he looks miles ahead of what he looked like last year.
at this point i really don't care who starts because this season is a wash now. i guess play manziel. if he progresses each game maybe farmer won't have to draft a QB with the first pick. maybe we can actually find someone tall, with speed and can catch the fucking ball. and besides johnson you can tell the rest of the rb crew to hit the bricks.
dude we're going to go 3 and 13 no matter who starts at QB.
i liked what i saw from manziel. agree about his command of the offense. also agree that he threw balls of fire to receivers that needed a softer touch. but he looks miles ahead of what he looked like last year.
at this point i really don't care who starts because this season is a wash now. i guess play manziel. if he progresses each game maybe farmer won't have to draft a QB with the first pick. maybe we can actually find someone tall, with speed and can catch the fucking ball. and besides johnson you can tell the rest of the rb crew to hit the bricks.
I'm with you. At least give him a chance to grow. He's played in 5 games. You give a quarterback at least 2 if not 3 seasons to grow before you give up on them.
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I'm a Bengals fan....don't shoot.
My take on Manziel is he is not all that much different than Collin Kapernick, or Russel Wilson. If you want to be successful with him then you are going to have to design a scheme around him. He is not an in the pocket passer and neither are those guys. People don't like to admit it, but Russel Wilson is not good, or comfortable, in the pocket. He scrambles when he doesn't need to so he can get outside and make plays. If the Seahawks asked wilson to stay in the pocket like the browns did in the second half last night they would get crushed. Kapernick went from a Super Bowl QB to benched because the current coaching staff has gotten away from the scheme that made him work.
Like the Seahawks the Browns need to commit to a solid power running game and use a lot of bootlegs to compliment it. This would do a couple things for the offense, the first being it get Manziel outside in space to more easily see his receivers, but also gives him a run pass option. It in turn will help the running game as the backside defender must stay home and not chase down run plays from the backside or else risk getting beat on the bootleg.
Things like rollouts would help because it gets Manziel outside, but also because they are easy reads normally two man route combinations to his strong side with the third option being a run. These are safe ways the Browns can set him up for success if they actually wish to try. From where he was last year to where he is now tells me he can improve at a good clip, however it is a matter of if the team wants to invest in trying to compliment him.
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What was he supposed to say? The truth? "Johnny Girlslapper sucks and will never be more than a career backup" Typical bs from the team with the very most losses since 99.
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at this point i think what hoorta said about fitting round pegs into square holes can be seen vividly in pettine's face. i think he truly dislikes manziel as his 'type' of QB that he covets. and it may come down to one of them being gone from the team next year.
i'm a pettine supporter and didn't like the manziel pick at all. kid has talent but i don't see him as an AFCN QB. sorry, just don't. i think pettine would take a zach mettenberger today if he walked in his office and manziel would be walking out with his locker room contents in a bag tied on a stick.
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I'm a Bengals fan....don't shoot.
My take on Manziel is he is not all that much different than Collin Kapernick, or Russel Wilson. If you want to be successful with him then you are going to have to design a scheme around him. He is not an in the pocket passer and neither are those guys. People don't like to admit it, but Russel Wilson is not good, or comfortable, in the pocket. He scrambles when he doesn't need to so he can get outside and make plays. If the Seahawks asked wilson to stay in the pocket like the browns did in the second half last night they would get crushed. Kapernick went from a Super Bowl QB to benched because the current coaching staff has gotten away from the scheme that made him work.
Like the Seahawks the Browns need to commit to a solid power running game and use a lot of bootlegs to compliment it. This would do a couple things for the offense, the first being it get Manziel outside in space to more easily see his receivers, but also gives him a run pass option. It in turn will help the running game as the backside defender must stay home and not chase down run plays from the backside or else risk getting beat on the bootleg.
Things like rollouts would help because it gets Manziel outside, but also because they are easy reads normally two man route combinations to his strong side with the third option being a run. These are safe ways the Browns can set him up for success if they actually wish to try. From where he was last year to where he is now tells me he can improve at a good clip, however it is a matter of if the team wants to invest in trying to compliment him.
I'm a Bengals fan....don't shoot.
My take on Manziel is he is not all that much different than Collin Kapernick, or Russel Wilson. If you want to be successful with him then you are going to have to design a scheme around him. He is not an in the pocket passer and neither are those guys. People don't like to admit it, but Russel Wilson is not good, or comfortable, in the pocket. He scrambles when he doesn't need to so he can get outside and make plays. If the Seahawks asked wilson to stay in the pocket like the browns did in the second half last night they would get crushed. Kapernick went from a Super Bowl QB to benched because the current coaching staff has gotten away from the scheme that made him work.
Like the Seahawks the Browns need to commit to a solid power running game and use a lot of bootlegs to compliment it. This would do a couple things for the offense, the first being it get Manziel outside in space to more easily see his receivers, but also gives him a run pass option. It in turn will help the running game as the backside defender must stay home and not chase down run plays from the backside or else risk getting beat on the bootleg.
Things like rollouts would help because it gets Manziel outside, but also because they are easy reads normally two man route combinations to his strong side with the third option being a run. These are safe ways the Browns can set him up for success if they actually wish to try. From where he was last year to where he is now tells me he can improve at a good clip, however it is a matter of if the team wants to invest in trying to compliment him.
let me ask you as a bengal's fan (nice win btw.....and your team looks legit, again).
what do you say to the people hear that are calling for the coach's and GM's head? i mean how many years has lewis been there? multiple losses in first games of playoff appearances and he's still there? my god he'd be set on fire if he did that in cleveland.
so do you believe that continuity is important or do you just keep firing and hiring until you find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?
just curious.
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You've got to stick with manziel. Got to got to got to. You've also got to let him go what he does. It's the only couse of action for this team right now
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Yeah, do that so we can go 3-13.Zombo said:
He's a career backup at best.
He sees things too late and he has no touch.
He's too damn short and useless in the pocket.
Start McCown, he's better.
It was his 4th start in his career. Bottles was horrible last year, now he's coming along. You don't know if someone can make it in the league or not after 4 games.
Z
The season is over, give Manziel the last 8 games and let him grow.
Your 10 - 6 prediction was wrong
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dude we're going to go 3 and 13 no matter who starts at QB.
i liked what i saw from manziel. agree about his command of the offense. also agree that he threw balls of fire to receivers that needed a softer touch. but he looks miles ahead of what he looked like last year.
at this point i really don't care who starts because this season is a wash now. i guess play manziel. if he progresses each game maybe farmer won't have to draft a QB with the first pick. maybe we can actually find someone tall, with speed and can catch the fucking ball. and besides johnson you can tell the rest of the rb crew to hit the bricks.
I'm with you. At least give him a chance to grow. He's played in 5 games. You give a quarterback at least 2 if not 3 seasons to grow before you give up on them.
I'm with you. At least give him a chance to grow. He's played in 5 games. You give a quarterback at least 2 if not 3 seasons to grow before you give up on them.
No you don't.
You play your best QB.
You guys will see this better when you stop thinking of Johnny as a first round pick and start thinking of him as a career backup.
We don't "have to" play him. He's not that special. I think the staff knows that. I think people around the league now that.
Zombo
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The positives:
- Energy - especially evident in barking out the playcall in the huddle.
- Command - see above, really took charge; not one delay of game.
- Mechanics - pretty solid... even on the run, but got into a back-foot mode for a bit in the 2nd half and most sailed high.
- Controlled - until the very end, when shots were mandatory, he never put the ball in danger.
- Poise - in-game and post-game in his presser... in the latter his self-evaluation seemed a great deal more objective than much of what is floating around here.
- Scrambling - yes, when called for, it's an asset..
- Bailing - ... but when scrambling is premature, it costs reads...
- Touch - all fast balls, a couple fed drops by players too close for fast balls, need to control the adrenaline.
- Missed reads - three of his best plays were throws on the run after bailing to the very players (MJ, Barn and Duke) he missed early while in the pocket.
JM was good and certainly better than a year ago by a mile, but still not anywhere good enough.
The positives:
- Energy - especially evident in barking out the playcall in the huddle.
- Command - see above, really took charge; not one delay of game.
- Mechanics - pretty solid... even on the run, but got into a back-foot mode for a bit in the 2nd half and most sailed high.
- Controlled - until the very end, when shots were mandatory, he never put the ball in danger.
- Poise - in-game and post-game in his presser... in the latter his self-evaluation seemed a great deal more objective than much of what is floating around here.
- Scrambling - yes, when called for, it's an asset..
- Bailing - ... but when scrambling is premature, it costs reads...
- Touch - all fast balls, a couple fed drops by players too close for fast balls, need to control the adrenaline.
- Missed reads - three of his best plays were throws on the run after bailing to the very players (MJ, Barn and Duke) he missed early while in the pocket.
JM was good and certainly better than a year ago by a mile, but still not anywhere good enough.
Thanks, enjoyed the tavern conversation last night. Only thing I'll strongly disagree with you on is that bolded point above. He might be throwing fastballs, but this is the NFL. He hit guys in the hands by my informal count 4 times that were drops, two overt. Those balls just have to be caught.
Here's the bottom line: I don't think Manziel's got franchise level talent, but he showed last night he can play at an NFL level. He can PERHAPS develop past the expectations, but we won't know that unless he plays. He showed flashes last night and showed we brings to the table. He bailed out of the pocket early but so do many rookie QB's (which for all intents and purposes he is).
Guys, face the music and accept this team blows. We're woefully short literally at every position, talent is a huge concern. Dwyane Bowe looked like that 44 year old guy at the Y everyone hates playing pickup ball with and Shelton legit looked like he was 400 lbs. This is a lost season and the QB pool is looking to be VERY good for this year's draft. We gotta see what we got in the dude, and last night he showed he can at least play the position. It's Manziel time.
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I'm with you. At least give him a chance to grow. He's played in 5 games. You give a quarterback at least 2 if not 3 seasons to grow before you give up on them.
No you don't.
You play your best QB.
You guys will see this better when you stop thinking of Johnny as a first round pick and start thinking of him as a career backup.
We don't "have to" play him. He's not that special. I think the staff knows that. I think people around the league now that.
Zombo
Zombo said:
No you don't.
You play your best QB.
You guys will see this better when you stop thinking of Johnny as a first round pick and start thinking of him as a career backup.
We don't "have to" play him. He's not that special. I think the staff knows that. I think people around the league now that.
Zombo
Josh mccown standing in the pocket is a good way to settle it because there's a good chance josh mccown will die.
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hey mccown is better, there's no questioning that. no one can argue that or deny that. the numbers prove it.
BUT, i mean can we just play the guy (manziel) so this friggin debate that splits the org's fan base can be put to bed FOREVER? if he doesn't improve and it's first read johnnie then he's gone or delegated to 3rd string cuz farmer will be picking a QB. then we'll have something else to bitch at each other about.
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