Jonathan Paul Manziel
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hey mccown is better, there's no questioning that. no one can argue that or deny that. the numbers prove it.
BUT, i mean can we just play the guy (manziel) so this friggin debate that splits the org's fan base can be put to bed FOREVER? if he doesn't improve and it's first read johnnie then he's gone or delegated to 3rd string cuz farmer will be picking a QB. then we'll have something else to bitch at each other about.
hey mccown is better, there's no questioning that. no one can argue that or deny that. the numbers prove it.
BUT, i mean can we just play the guy (manziel) so this friggin debate that splits the org's fan base can be put to bed FOREVER? if he doesn't improve and it's first read johnnie then he's gone or delegated to 3rd string cuz farmer will be picking a QB. then we'll have something else to bitch at each other about.
Reminds me of Quinn ... He has to play!
Ok, he played. Still sucked. Did everyone feel better then?
At least let McCown start against Pittsburgh and Baltimore the next two weeks.
If we lose those two, the fans can make Johnny head coach if they want.
Zombo
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This is the biggest pussy thread of all time.
Pettine is right anyway. If you can't make plays in the pocket you can't be an NFL QB.
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This is the biggest pussy thread of all time.
Pettine is right anyway. If you can't make plays in the pocket you can't be an NFL QB.
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We have Pittsburgh to beat twice if you aren't paying attention.
Mccown's a better quarterback, simple.
McCown is the better QB right now. He is also 36 years old. Who here really thinks McCown is the future of this franchise?
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
halftime comments? really?
now we get the torches and pitchforks out for HALFTIME COMMENTS?
you're lucky he didn't gnaw that bitch's face off after watching his team squander points, field position and make dumb fucking mistakes (again and again).
it'd be a shame for pettine to lose his job given what HE has to work with. all the pro-manziel fans point out that manziel doesn't have anything to work with.....well neither do mccown or more importantly, pettine.
our supposed 'strengths' that we all were hanging our hats on before the season were our OL and the new run-stopping tough as nails defense. both have been laughable.
i'm a big defense guy but if farmer drafted all offensive weapons next year, i wouldn't blink an eye.
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Id say the future isnt here......figuratively or literally....
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Manziel may not be a franchise QB, but here's the thing. The Browns need talent - more on D than on O.
The Seahawks may have "committed" to a power run game.. but you need to be able to run to have a run game. Seahawks OL starts 2 players who aren't good enough to make the Browns practice squad. Browns OL is #2 in the league - go read PFF. We have a power run game.. without the power runner. Turbin was released for a reason, Crowell was a UDFA for a reason.. Duke is our best RB and needs to be fed.
The first 2 picks should be QB and DL, in some combination. If DL first round [bosa might fall.. Ogbah? Nkemdiche?], then in round2 we can get the NCState QB. Or, because we'll be drafting high enough, take the Memphis QB in rd1 and one of [DT Robinson from Alabama, Washington from OSU, Clark from UCLA] in round 2. We can improve the OLB in the later rounds.. maybe Georgia's Jenkins will fall.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
hey dude....fire o'neill today and i have no prob with it. let pettine take over the D calling. if there is no sign of improvement (given injuries) then he can go too.
it's not a fluke though that he helped build some great defenses. maybe he just picked a 'friend' to be his D coord when he should have hired rob ryan.
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This is the biggest pussy thread of all time.
Pettine is right anyway. If you can't make plays in the pocket you can't be an NFL QB.
This is the biggest pussy thread of all time.
Pettine is right anyway. If you can't make plays in the pocket you can't be an NFL QB.
Zombo said:
I don't know, Kaepernick and Griffin's careers seem on the upswing.
Zombo
Gotta agree....right there.....
The only "running QB's who have ever been quality NFL players(and there are only a few) all were adept at playing IN the pocket and only broke containment as a last resort.....all the rest flashed, then faded.....
One thing about staying in the pocket is that you can see the whole field......run right and you lose 60-75% of your options immediately....and if you have poor field vision(which I believe Manziel does) then you see even less.....
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McCown is better right now, but Manziel isn't going to improve on the bench.
First off, he needs to be paired with a coach who will work with his strengths. Pettine seems to hate Manziel. Bad situation.
Also, Manziel didn't get a lot of help last night. I saw quite a few drops. Sure, Manziel needs to keep improving, but I honestly expected him to look worse than he did. His 92 yard TD drive before halftime was excellent.
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Manziel may not be a franchise QB, but here's the thing. The Browns need talent - more on D than on O.
The Seahawks may have "committed" to a power run game.. but you need to be able to run to have a run game. Seahawks OL starts 2 players who aren't good enough to make the Browns practice squad. Browns OL is #2 in the league - go read PFF. We have a power run game.. without the power runner. Turbin was released for a reason, Crowell was a UDFA for a reason.. Duke is our best RB and needs to be fed.
The first 2 picks should be QB and DL, in some combination. If DL first round [bosa might fall.. Ogbah? Nkemdiche?], then in round2 we can get the NCState QB. Or, because we'll be drafting high enough, take the Memphis QB in rd1 and one of [DT Robinson from Alabama, Washington from OSU, Clark from UCLA] in round 2. We can improve the OLB in the later rounds.. maybe Georgia's Jenkins will fall.
Manziel may not be a franchise QB, but here's the thing. The Browns need talent - more on D than on O.
The Seahawks may have "committed" to a power run game.. but you need to be able to run to have a run game. Seahawks OL starts 2 players who aren't good enough to make the Browns practice squad. Browns OL is #2 in the league - go read PFF. We have a power run game.. without the power runner. Turbin was released for a reason, Crowell was a UDFA for a reason.. Duke is our best RB and needs to be fed.
The first 2 picks should be QB and DL, in some combination. If DL first round [bosa might fall.. Ogbah? Nkemdiche?], then in round2 we can get the NCState QB. Or, because we'll be drafting high enough, take the Memphis QB in rd1 and one of [DT Robinson from Alabama, Washington from OSU, Clark from UCLA] in round 2. We can improve the OLB in the later rounds.. maybe Georgia's Jenkins will fall.
QB, WR(s), RB(s), LB(s) then DL and OL in that order.
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I disagree with the pessimistic assessments of JM's performance last night. He didn't look like aaron Rodgers but he was looking to pass in the pocket first then bail when the pocket invariably collapses. I dunno if any of you know this or not, but our offensive line is horseshit. Pure horseshit. So a good qb behind this line knows that he's got 1-2 reads downfield "max" before he has to bail and look to extend the play. To his credit he looked to bail laterally first and give our guys extra time to get open. And in the 1st half it worked.
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Manziel has the extra threat to run, it allows for more flexibility in the run game since the defense has to respect Manziel's elusiveness. Did anyone notice how much better Crowell looked last night compared to other games?
Manziel does have some improvements to make in going through his reads, but he did a decent job of getting the ball out quickly and getting rid of the ball instead of taking huge risks. If McCown can start against the Steelers, great, but I would not be upset if Johnny got another start. It seems like he is improving and I'd like to see where his ceiling is. Both QBs give us a chance to win, but I like the extra mobility of Manziel and how it can open up the running game.
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I disagree with the pessimistic assessments of JM's performance last night. He didn't look like aaron Rodgers but he was looking to pass in the pocket first then bail when the pocket invariably collapses. I dunno if any of you know this or not, but our offensive line is horseshit. Pure horseshit. So a good qb behind this line knows that he's got 1-2 reads downfield "max" before he has to bail and look to extend the play. To his credit he looked to bail laterally first and give our guys extra time to get open. And in the 1st half it worked.
I dunno if any of you know this or not, but our offensive line is horseshit. Pure horseshit.
I call BS
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I disagree with the pessimistic assessments of JM's performance last night. He didn't look like aaron Rodgers but he was looking to pass in the pocket first then bail when the pocket invariably collapses. I dunno if any of you know this or not, but our offensive line is horseshit. Pure horseshit. So a good qb behind this line knows that he's got 1-2 reads downfield "max" before he has to bail and look to extend the play. To his credit he looked to bail laterally first and give our guys extra time to get open. And in the 1st half it worked.
I dunno if any of you know this or not, but our offensive line is horseshit. Pure horseshit.
I know your post is 100% pure shit.
We have the second-best OL in the league, behind Dallas.
You're always welcome to dislike objective reality, but you'll be incorrect every time.
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This is the biggest pussy thread of all time.
Pettine is right anyway. If you can't make plays in the pocket you can't be an NFL QB.
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Let's be honest about this, whoever is our starting QB, asking them to throw it 40 times per game while rushing 15 times at 3 ypc is *not* a long term recipe for success. Travis Benjamin and Gary Barnidge are both on pace for thousand yard (or close) seasons, with double digit touchdowns, while Duke Johnson looks a great receiving weapon out of the backfield, like a darren sproles or gio bernard. So, it's not like the cupboard is totally bare in terms of playmaking receiving talent - without mentioning the black sheep of the corps who could really ignite any offense if he can ever get on the field.
Fix the damn run game, and this O, especially with the then-believable play actions and rollouts, will be coming on just fine, with Manziel or McCown under center.
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I'm a Bengals fan....don't shoot.
My take on Manziel is he is not all that much different than Collin Kapernick, or Russel Wilson. If you want to be successful with him then you are going to have to design a scheme around him. He is not an in the pocket passer and neither are those guys. People don't like to admit it, but Russel Wilson is not good, or comfortable, in the pocket. He scrambles when he doesn't need to so he can get outside and make plays. If the Seahawks asked wilson to stay in the pocket like the browns did in the second half last night they would get crushed. Kapernick went from a Super Bowl QB to benched because the current coaching staff has gotten away from the scheme that made him work.
Like the Seahawks the Browns need to commit to a solid power running game and use a lot of bootlegs to compliment it. This would do a couple things for the offense, the first being it get Manziel outside in space to more easily see his receivers, but also gives him a run pass option. It in turn will help the running game as the backside defender must stay home and not chase down run plays from the backside or else risk getting beat on the bootleg.
Things like rollouts would help because it gets Manziel outside, but also because they are easy reads normally two man route combinations to his strong side with the third option being a run. These are safe ways the Browns can set him up for success if they actually wish to try. From where he was last year to where he is now tells me he can improve at a good clip, however it is a matter of if the team wants to invest in trying to compliment him.
let me ask you as a bengal's fan (nice win btw.....and your team looks legit, again).
what do you say to the people hear that are calling for the coach's and GM's head? i mean how many years has lewis been there? multiple losses in first games of playoff appearances and he's still there? my god he'd be set on fire if he did that in cleveland.
so do you believe that continuity is important or do you just keep firing and hiring until you find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?
just curious.
let me ask you as a bengal's fan (nice win btw.....and your team looks legit, again).
what do you say to the people hear that are calling for the coach's and GM's head? i mean how many years has lewis been there? multiple losses in first games of playoff appearances and he's still there? my god he'd be set on fire if he did that in cleveland.
so do you believe that continuity is important or do you just keep firing and hiring until you find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?
just curious.
That is an interesting question. Marvin Lewis is the second longest tenured coach in the NFL behind only Bill Belicheck, and the longest ever to not win a playoff game. There is patience, and their is almost saintly patience and that is what we have shown here in Cincinnati. There have been times we have tried to run him out of town, but to Mike Browns credit he has refused. The reality is the first 4 or 5 years he had to change a losing culture which meant cleaning house and getting his own guys in. That process is not fun and can often times result in losing seasons.
Dalton was in a similar boat. People wanted him cut or traded before the year. Many fail to remember that years ago, QB's didn't start in the NFL until years two and three not as rookies coming off lockout shortened off seasons as Dalton did. The idea that guys will come in and be Peyton Manning in their first couple years is laughable, heck Peyton Manning wasn't even all that great until year 3.
I think you need to get some continuity, but the trick is deciding which coach and QB to invest that patience into.
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