Jonathan Paul Manziel
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The positives:
- Energy - especially evident in barking out the playcall in the huddle.
- Command - see above, really took charge; not one delay of game.
- Mechanics - pretty solid... even on the run, but got into a back-foot mode for a bit in the 2nd half and most sailed high.
- Controlled - until the very end, when shots were mandatory, he never put the ball in danger.
- Poise - in-game and post-game in his presser... in the latter his self-evaluation seemed a great deal more objective than much of what is floating around here.
- Scrambling - yes, when called for, it's an asset..
- Bailing - ... but when scrambling is premature, it costs reads...
- Touch - all fast balls, a couple fed drops by players too close for fast balls, need to control the adrenaline.
- Missed reads - three of his best plays were throws on the run after bailing to the very players (MJ, Barn and Duke) he missed early while in the pocket.
JM was good and certainly better than a year ago by a mile, but still not anywhere good enough.
The positives:
- Energy - especially evident in barking out the playcall in the huddle.
- Command - see above, really took charge; not one delay of game.
- Mechanics - pretty solid... even on the run, but got into a back-foot mode for a bit in the 2nd half and most sailed high.
- Controlled - until the very end, when shots were mandatory, he never put the ball in danger.
- Poise - in-game and post-game in his presser... in the latter his self-evaluation seemed a great deal more objective than much of what is floating around here.
- Scrambling - yes, when called for, it's an asset..
- Bailing - ... but when scrambling is premature, it costs reads...
- Touch - all fast balls, a couple fed drops by players too close for fast balls, need to control the adrenaline.
- Missed reads - three of his best plays were throws on the run after bailing to the very players (MJ, Barn and Duke) he missed early while in the pocket.
JM was good and certainly better than a year ago by a mile, but still not anywhere good enough.
Thanks, enjoyed the tavern conversation last night. Only thing I'll strongly disagree with you on is that bolded point above. He might be throwing fastballs, but this is the NFL. He hit guys in the hands by my informal count 4 times that were drops, two overt. Those balls just have to be caught.
Here's the bottom line: I don't think Manziel's got franchise level talent, but he showed last night he can play at an NFL level. He can PERHAPS develop past the expectations, but we won't know that unless he plays. He showed flashes last night and showed we brings to the table. He bailed out of the pocket early but so do many rookie QB's (which for all intents and purposes he is).
Guys, face the music and accept this team blows. We're woefully short literally at every position, talent is a huge concern. Dwyane Bowe looked like that 44 year old guy at the Y everyone hates playing pickup ball with and Shelton legit looked like he was 400 lbs. This is a lost season and the QB pool is looking to be VERY good for this year's draft. We gotta see what we got in the dude, and last night he showed he can at least play the position. It's Manziel time.
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I'm with you. At least give him a chance to grow. He's played in 5 games. You give a quarterback at least 2 if not 3 seasons to grow before you give up on them.
No you don't.
You play your best QB.
You guys will see this better when you stop thinking of Johnny as a first round pick and start thinking of him as a career backup.
We don't "have to" play him. He's not that special. I think the staff knows that. I think people around the league now that.
Zombo
Zombo said:
No you don't.
You play your best QB.
You guys will see this better when you stop thinking of Johnny as a first round pick and start thinking of him as a career backup.
We don't "have to" play him. He's not that special. I think the staff knows that. I think people around the league now that.
Zombo
Josh mccown standing in the pocket is a good way to settle it because there's a good chance josh mccown will die.
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hey mccown is better, there's no questioning that. no one can argue that or deny that. the numbers prove it.
BUT, i mean can we just play the guy (manziel) so this friggin debate that splits the org's fan base can be put to bed FOREVER? if he doesn't improve and it's first read johnnie then he's gone or delegated to 3rd string cuz farmer will be picking a QB. then we'll have something else to bitch at each other about.
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hey mccown is better, there's no questioning that. no one can argue that or deny that. the numbers prove it.
BUT, i mean can we just play the guy (manziel) so this friggin debate that splits the org's fan base can be put to bed FOREVER? if he doesn't improve and it's first read johnnie then he's gone or delegated to 3rd string cuz farmer will be picking a QB. then we'll have something else to bitch at each other about.
hey mccown is better, there's no questioning that. no one can argue that or deny that. the numbers prove it.
BUT, i mean can we just play the guy (manziel) so this friggin debate that splits the org's fan base can be put to bed FOREVER? if he doesn't improve and it's first read johnnie then he's gone or delegated to 3rd string cuz farmer will be picking a QB. then we'll have something else to bitch at each other about.
Reminds me of Quinn ... He has to play!
Ok, he played. Still sucked. Did everyone feel better then?
At least let McCown start against Pittsburgh and Baltimore the next two weeks.
If we lose those two, the fans can make Johnny head coach if they want.
Zombo
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This is the biggest pussy thread of all time.
Pettine is right anyway. If you can't make plays in the pocket you can't be an NFL QB.
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This is the biggest pussy thread of all time.
Pettine is right anyway. If you can't make plays in the pocket you can't be an NFL QB.
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We have Pittsburgh to beat twice if you aren't paying attention.
Mccown's a better quarterback, simple.
McCown is the better QB right now. He is also 36 years old. Who here really thinks McCown is the future of this franchise?
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
halftime comments? really?
now we get the torches and pitchforks out for HALFTIME COMMENTS?
you're lucky he didn't gnaw that bitch's face off after watching his team squander points, field position and make dumb fucking mistakes (again and again).
it'd be a shame for pettine to lose his job given what HE has to work with. all the pro-manziel fans point out that manziel doesn't have anything to work with.....well neither do mccown or more importantly, pettine.
our supposed 'strengths' that we all were hanging our hats on before the season were our OL and the new run-stopping tough as nails defense. both have been laughable.
i'm a big defense guy but if farmer drafted all offensive weapons next year, i wouldn't blink an eye.
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Id say the future isnt here......figuratively or literally....
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Manziel may not be a franchise QB, but here's the thing. The Browns need talent - more on D than on O.
The Seahawks may have "committed" to a power run game.. but you need to be able to run to have a run game. Seahawks OL starts 2 players who aren't good enough to make the Browns practice squad. Browns OL is #2 in the league - go read PFF. We have a power run game.. without the power runner. Turbin was released for a reason, Crowell was a UDFA for a reason.. Duke is our best RB and needs to be fed.
The first 2 picks should be QB and DL, in some combination. If DL first round [bosa might fall.. Ogbah? Nkemdiche?], then in round2 we can get the NCState QB. Or, because we'll be drafting high enough, take the Memphis QB in rd1 and one of [DT Robinson from Alabama, Washington from OSU, Clark from UCLA] in round 2. We can improve the OLB in the later rounds.. maybe Georgia's Jenkins will fall.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
hey dude....fire o'neill today and i have no prob with it. let pettine take over the D calling. if there is no sign of improvement (given injuries) then he can go too.
it's not a fluke though that he helped build some great defenses. maybe he just picked a 'friend' to be his D coord when he should have hired rob ryan.
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This is the biggest pussy thread of all time.
Pettine is right anyway. If you can't make plays in the pocket you can't be an NFL QB.
This is the biggest pussy thread of all time.
Pettine is right anyway. If you can't make plays in the pocket you can't be an NFL QB.
Zombo said:
I don't know, Kaepernick and Griffin's careers seem on the upswing.
Zombo
Gotta agree....right there.....
The only "running QB's who have ever been quality NFL players(and there are only a few) all were adept at playing IN the pocket and only broke containment as a last resort.....all the rest flashed, then faded.....
One thing about staying in the pocket is that you can see the whole field......run right and you lose 60-75% of your options immediately....and if you have poor field vision(which I believe Manziel does) then you see even less.....
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McCown is better right now, but Manziel isn't going to improve on the bench.
First off, he needs to be paired with a coach who will work with his strengths. Pettine seems to hate Manziel. Bad situation.
Also, Manziel didn't get a lot of help last night. I saw quite a few drops. Sure, Manziel needs to keep improving, but I honestly expected him to look worse than he did. His 92 yard TD drive before halftime was excellent.
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Manziel may not be a franchise QB, but here's the thing. The Browns need talent - more on D than on O.
The Seahawks may have "committed" to a power run game.. but you need to be able to run to have a run game. Seahawks OL starts 2 players who aren't good enough to make the Browns practice squad. Browns OL is #2 in the league - go read PFF. We have a power run game.. without the power runner. Turbin was released for a reason, Crowell was a UDFA for a reason.. Duke is our best RB and needs to be fed.
The first 2 picks should be QB and DL, in some combination. If DL first round [bosa might fall.. Ogbah? Nkemdiche?], then in round2 we can get the NCState QB. Or, because we'll be drafting high enough, take the Memphis QB in rd1 and one of [DT Robinson from Alabama, Washington from OSU, Clark from UCLA] in round 2. We can improve the OLB in the later rounds.. maybe Georgia's Jenkins will fall.
Manziel may not be a franchise QB, but here's the thing. The Browns need talent - more on D than on O.
The Seahawks may have "committed" to a power run game.. but you need to be able to run to have a run game. Seahawks OL starts 2 players who aren't good enough to make the Browns practice squad. Browns OL is #2 in the league - go read PFF. We have a power run game.. without the power runner. Turbin was released for a reason, Crowell was a UDFA for a reason.. Duke is our best RB and needs to be fed.
The first 2 picks should be QB and DL, in some combination. If DL first round [bosa might fall.. Ogbah? Nkemdiche?], then in round2 we can get the NCState QB. Or, because we'll be drafting high enough, take the Memphis QB in rd1 and one of [DT Robinson from Alabama, Washington from OSU, Clark from UCLA] in round 2. We can improve the OLB in the later rounds.. maybe Georgia's Jenkins will fall.
QB, WR(s), RB(s), LB(s) then DL and OL in that order.
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I disagree with the pessimistic assessments of JM's performance last night. He didn't look like aaron Rodgers but he was looking to pass in the pocket first then bail when the pocket invariably collapses. I dunno if any of you know this or not, but our offensive line is horseshit. Pure horseshit. So a good qb behind this line knows that he's got 1-2 reads downfield "max" before he has to bail and look to extend the play. To his credit he looked to bail laterally first and give our guys extra time to get open. And in the 1st half it worked.
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Manziel has the extra threat to run, it allows for more flexibility in the run game since the defense has to respect Manziel's elusiveness. Did anyone notice how much better Crowell looked last night compared to other games?
Manziel does have some improvements to make in going through his reads, but he did a decent job of getting the ball out quickly and getting rid of the ball instead of taking huge risks. If McCown can start against the Steelers, great, but I would not be upset if Johnny got another start. It seems like he is improving and I'd like to see where his ceiling is. Both QBs give us a chance to win, but I like the extra mobility of Manziel and how it can open up the running game.
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I disagree with the pessimistic assessments of JM's performance last night. He didn't look like aaron Rodgers but he was looking to pass in the pocket first then bail when the pocket invariably collapses. I dunno if any of you know this or not, but our offensive line is horseshit. Pure horseshit. So a good qb behind this line knows that he's got 1-2 reads downfield "max" before he has to bail and look to extend the play. To his credit he looked to bail laterally first and give our guys extra time to get open. And in the 1st half it worked.
I dunno if any of you know this or not, but our offensive line is horseshit. Pure horseshit.
I call BS
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I disagree with the pessimistic assessments of JM's performance last night. He didn't look like aaron Rodgers but he was looking to pass in the pocket first then bail when the pocket invariably collapses. I dunno if any of you know this or not, but our offensive line is horseshit. Pure horseshit. So a good qb behind this line knows that he's got 1-2 reads downfield "max" before he has to bail and look to extend the play. To his credit he looked to bail laterally first and give our guys extra time to get open. And in the 1st half it worked.
I dunno if any of you know this or not, but our offensive line is horseshit. Pure horseshit.
I know your post is 100% pure shit.
We have the second-best OL in the league, behind Dallas.
You're always welcome to dislike objective reality, but you'll be incorrect every time.
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