Pettine, Not Farmer, To Blame?
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We've tried. A whole lot
I'm just saying saying you have a huge mismatch ratio of "fresh blood" type of guys that come in compared to former SB winning coaches moving to a new team.
I mean, say it's 50:1 coordinator types:former SB winners (I don't know the actual ratio - but it's a huge imbalance).
Out of the coordinator/college type of guys who outnumber the retread guys 50:1, some of them are bound to win super bowls - but it doesn't mean the retread guy can't be good.
I mean, I'd take one of the former SB winners over somebody like the jaguars defensive backs coach that we'll probably end up with.
Somebody will win a super bowl with 2 different teams, it's just a matter of time really. Many super bowl winning coaches don't move on.
We've tried. A whole lot
I'm just saying saying you have a huge mismatch ratio of "fresh blood" type of guys that come in compared to former SB winning coaches moving to a new team.
I mean, say it's 50:1 coordinator types:former SB winners (I don't know the actual ratio - but it's a huge imbalance).
Out of the coordinator/college type of guys who outnumber the retread guys 50:1, some of them are bound to win super bowls - but it doesn't mean the retread guy can't be good.
I mean, I'd take one of the former SB winners over somebody like the jaguars defensive backs coach that we'll probably end up with.
Somebody will win a super bowl with 2 different teams, it's just a matter of time really. Many super bowl winning coaches don't move on.
Shula won an NFL Championship with the Colts, then a Super Bowl with the Dolphins. I'd say that counts.
Shula won an NFL Championship with the Colts, then a Super Bowl with the Dolphins. I'd say that counts.
And he's the only one.....Shula was an amazing coach.....only 2 seasons below 500 in 33 years as a head coach....(2)...wow
And, while I see the bbedwards odds....truth is that every single great HC and every single SB winner was a promoted position coach or coordinator at some point.....while no SB winners have done it in 2 cities(Yes, I know, Shula....but technically no)....
So, in percentages:
100% = SuperBowl winners who were promoted position coaches...
0% = SuperBowl winners who moved to another team after winning one....
So, there are these odds too.....
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Shula won an NFL Championship with the Colts, then a Super Bowl with the Dolphins. I'd say that counts.
And he's the only one.....Shula was an amazing coach.....only 2 seasons below 500 in 33 years as a head coach....(2)...wow
And, while I see the bbedwards odds....truth is that every single great HC and every single SB winner was a promoted position coach or coordinator at some point.....while no SB winners have done it in 2 cities(Yes, I know, Shula....but technically no)....
So, in percentages:
100% = SuperBowl winners who were promoted position coaches...
0% = SuperBowl winners who moved to another team after winning one....
So, there are these odds too.....
So, in percentages:
100% = SuperBowl winners who were promoted position coaches...
0% = SuperBowl winners who moved to another team after winning one....
So, there are these odds too.....
But the "SuperBowl winners who were promoted position coaches" is like a bajillion people. The " SuperBowl winners who moved to another team after winning one" is much, much less
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What it shows is just because a guy achieved the ultimate success at one location doesn't mean it's going to happen again. Saying to "back up the truck" for Payton is kind of silly. There's no guarantee that the Browns will turn into the Saints with him as the coach. The Cowboys and Patriots and Jets thought they were getting that with Parcells, how did that work out? The Dolphins thought they were going to turn into the Jimmy Johnson Cowboys when they hired him, how did that work out?
Find me the next Parcells, Johnson, Bellicheck, Cowher who is an assistant or a college coach and then you're onto something. But we don't know who that guy is till he's hired and given a chance.
This line of reasoning is bullshit, I'm sorry. I've heard it repeated here, on /r/Browns, BarkingHard and everywhere. It's certainly a true statement to say that there's no guarantee that so-and-so coach will win a Super Bowl here just because they won previously...but that point is moot. We're not one coach away from a Super Bowl.
- Parcells went 32-32 with the Patriots, with two 10+ win seasons;
- then went 29-19 as with the Jets with a 12-win season surrounded by an 8 and 9 win season;
- then went 34-30 in Dallas with three of his four seasons as winning seasons.
- Further, Parcells was offered the job because of retirement, not necessarily merit - and he was so bad in his first year that his job was offered to Howard Schnellenberger...who declined it.
- Jimmy Johnson had three winning seasons in Miami, never losing more than 7 games in a season and went to the playoffs every season.
Everybody on here wants us to jump from garbage to glory in one year and is so quick to point to Kansas City or San Francisco without acknowledging the fact that a quick turnaround like that is usually unsustainable. We are not one coach away from a Super Bowl - we're one coach away from being routinely competitive. Then, after two or three years of that, we can begin to talk about "turning the corner" and getting to the Super Bowl.
As it stands now, we're at least two corners from the Super Bowl.
I know what the next argument is - but...but...but....look at Mike Holmgren. He royally fucked us over, cashed his check and left. Fair enough, but...Holmgren was never our head coach. We hired him for a position that he was barely qualified for, then got pissed when he was terrible at it. So, while we still feel the burn as a fanbase, that argument actually has absolutely nothing to do with this situation.
Since the return, we've hired 7 head coaches, not including interim HC Terry Robiskie.
Palmer - 0 years of any HC experience.
Davis - 0 years of NFL HC experience.
Crennel - 0 years of any HC experience.
Mangini - 2 years of NFL HC experience.
Pat Shumur - 0 years of any HC experience.
Rob Chudzinski- 0 years of any HC experience.
Mike Pettine - 0 years of any HC experience.
We've had a combined 2 years of NFL HC experience from our last seven coaches. So, we've tried the "find me a coordinator" route. We've tried it five times - all with absolute failure.
Our best performance from a HC has been from Butch Davis, so there is at least some credence to the "find a successful college head coach" - and that's something that I would love for us to do. Hell, I'd even take Kliff Kingsbury at this point. Take an established guy if we can get him, and put up with two-three years of 8-10 win seasons before we even talk about Super Bowl.
But, under no circumstance should we even entertain the idea of finding a coordinator and promoting him up.
This line of reasoning is bullshit, I'm sorry. I've heard it repeated here, on /r/Browns, BarkingHard and everywhere. It's certainly a true statement to say that there's no guarantee that so-and-so coach will win a Super Bowl here just because they won previously...but that point is moot. We're not one coach away from a Super Bowl.
- Parcells went 32-32 with the Patriots, with two 10+ win seasons;
- then went 29-19 as with the Jets with a 12-win season surrounded by an 8 and 9 win season;
- then went 34-30 in Dallas with three of his four seasons as winning seasons.
- Further, Parcells was offered the job because of retirement, not necessarily merit - and he was so bad in his first year that his job was offered to Howard Schnellenberger...who declined it.
- Jimmy Johnson had three winning seasons in Miami, never losing more than 7 games in a season and went to the playoffs every season.
Everybody on here wants us to jump from garbage to glory in one year and is so quick to point to Kansas City or San Francisco without acknowledging the fact that a quick turnaround like that is usually unsustainable. We are not one coach away from a Super Bowl - we're one coach away from being routinely competitive. Then, after two or three years of that, we can begin to talk about "turning the corner" and getting to the Super Bowl.
As it stands now, we're at least two corners from the Super Bowl.
I know what the next argument is - but...but...but....look at Mike Holmgren. He royally fucked us over, cashed his check and left. Fair enough, but...Holmgren was never our head coach. We hired him for a position that he was barely qualified for, then got pissed when he was terrible at it. So, while we still feel the burn as a fanbase, that argument actually has absolutely nothing to do with this situation.
Since the return, we've hired 7 head coaches, not including interim HC Terry Robiskie.
Palmer - 0 years of any HC experience.
Davis - 0 years of NFL HC experience.
Crennel - 0 years of any HC experience.
Mangini - 2 years of NFL HC experience.
Pat Shumur - 0 years of any HC experience.
Rob Chudzinski- 0 years of any HC experience.
Mike Pettine - 0 years of any HC experience.
We've had a combined 2 years of NFL HC experience from our last seven coaches. So, we've tried the "find me a coordinator" route. We've tried it five times - all with absolute failure.
Our best performance from a HC has been from Butch Davis, so there is at least some credence to the "find a successful college head coach" - and that's something that I would love for us to do. Hell, I'd even take Kliff Kingsbury at this point. Take an established guy if we can get him, and put up with two-three years of 8-10 win seasons before we even talk about Super Bowl.
But, under no circumstance should we even entertain the idea of finding a coordinator and promoting him up.
I agree. We've tried the promote a coordinator route so many times- and failed. Payton at least knows how to win- if you want to say that's due to Drew Brees, OK. That's the overriding ticket to SB wins- you need a SB quality qb. The list of teams that have won it all with an "average" guy at quarterback is mighty short.
BTW, as Ghoolie pointed out- Crenell's previous success was due to fetching coffee for Bil B. He's failed miserably as HC twice.
Personally, after around 8 games, I knew old Pat Shure-loss was a huge mistake.
The Browns FO made the mistake of giving Butch Davis too much power- he dragged in every bum he coached at U of M.
Chud wasn't given enough time, and Palmer had no chance with the garbage he was given to coach.
The jury is out on Pettine, but I have a growing feeling the verdict isn't going to be favorable. Defensive coach in an offense driven league.
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This line of reasoning is bullshit, I'm sorry. I've heard it repeated here, on /r/Browns, BarkingHard and everywhere. It's certainly a true statement to say that there's no guarantee that so-and-so coach will win a Super Bowl here just because they won previously...but that point is moot. We're not one coach away from a Super Bowl.
- Parcells went 32-32 with the Patriots, with two 10+ win seasons;
- then went 29-19 as with the Jets with a 12-win season surrounded by an 8 and 9 win season;
- then went 34-30 in Dallas with three of his four seasons as winning seasons.
- Further, Parcells was offered the job because of retirement, not necessarily merit - and he was so bad in his first year that his job was offered to Howard Schnellenberger...who declined it.
- Jimmy Johnson had three winning seasons in Miami, never losing more than 7 games in a season and went to the playoffs every season.
Everybody on here wants us to jump from garbage to glory in one year and is so quick to point to Kansas City or San Francisco without acknowledging the fact that a quick turnaround like that is usually unsustainable. We are not one coach away from a Super Bowl - we're one coach away from being routinely competitive. Then, after two or three years of that, we can begin to talk about "turning the corner" and getting to the Super Bowl.
As it stands now, we're at least two corners from the Super Bowl.
I know what the next argument is - but...but...but....look at Mike Holmgren. He royally fucked us over, cashed his check and left. Fair enough, but...Holmgren was never our head coach. We hired him for a position that he was barely qualified for, then got pissed when he was terrible at it. So, while we still feel the burn as a fanbase, that argument actually has absolutely nothing to do with this situation.
Since the return, we've hired 7 head coaches, not including interim HC Terry Robiskie.
Palmer - 0 years of any HC experience.
Davis - 0 years of NFL HC experience.
Crennel - 0 years of any HC experience.
Mangini - 2 years of NFL HC experience.
Pat Shumur - 0 years of any HC experience.
Rob Chudzinski- 0 years of any HC experience.
Mike Pettine - 0 years of any HC experience.
We've had a combined 2 years of NFL HC experience from our last seven coaches. So, we've tried the "find me a coordinator" route. We've tried it five times - all with absolute failure.
Our best performance from a HC has been from Butch Davis, so there is at least some credence to the "find a successful college head coach" - and that's something that I would love for us to do. Hell, I'd even take Kliff Kingsbury at this point. Take an established guy if we can get him, and put up with two-three years of 8-10 win seasons before we even talk about Super Bowl.
But, under no circumstance should we even entertain the idea of finding a coordinator and promoting him up.
I agree. We've tried the promote a coordinator route so many times- and failed. Payton at least knows how to win- if you want to say that's due to Drew Brees, OK. That's the overriding ticket to SB wins- you need a SB quality qb. The list of teams that have won it all with an "average" guy at quarterback is mighty short.
BTW, as Ghoolie pointed out- Crenell's previous success was due to fetching coffee for Bil B. He's failed miserably as HC twice.
Personally, after around 8 games, I knew old Pat Shure-loss was a huge mistake.
The Browns FO made the mistake of giving Butch Davis too much power- he dragged in every bum he coached at U of M.
Chud wasn't given enough time, and Palmer had no chance with the garbage he was given to coach.
The jury is out on Pettine, but I have a growing feeling the verdict isn't going to be favorable. Defensive coach in an offense driven league.
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I get it.....Im just being difficult,,,,,,but what I truly think most people dont get....is the one common theme that ALL Super Bowl coaches had is....
They were almost ALL average coaches until they had great teams full of great players.....just a fact......
And, defensive vs offensive doesnt really matter to me.....both have proven to be SB winners.....tho Id prefer a strong defensive identity better for our division....
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I get it.....Im just being difficult,,,,,,but what I truly think most people dont get....is the one common theme that ALL Super Bowl coaches had is....
They were almost ALL average coaches until they had great teams full of great players.....just a fact......
And, defensive vs offensive doesnt really matter to me.....both have proven to be SB winners.....tho Id prefer a strong defensive identity better for our division....
I get it.....Im just being difficult,,,,,,but what I truly think most people dont get....is the one common theme that ALL Super Bowl coaches had is....
They were almost ALL average coaches until they had great teams full of great players.....just a fact......
And, defensive vs offensive doesnt really matter to me.....both have proven to be SB winners.....tho Id prefer a strong defensive identity better for our division....
This is a chicken and egg argument.
What made those players great? Who's to say that it wasn't coaching? Personally, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that we're just drafting "shit" talent year in and year out. At least one third of the people in the draft have the talent to play on Sundays in some capacity. That's 85 new players per year. You're telling me we've somehow managed to not hit on one of them over the past 10 years?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I just read,the article. I suspected this all along! Why isn't Farmer insisting Pettine play Bowe? My God we payed for him! Pettine seems like a horses ass. His press conferences are always negative and stiff! He won't smile or even pretend he's human. He's a stiff who can't coach and the players know it.
I believe they should call a Players Only Meeting like the Colts did last week. Someone has to change this culture of losing!
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I've been saying 4ever that this team needs an experienced and successful head coach to teach this team how to win but every time its some nobody and its even gotten to the point where i expect nothing less from the morons who run this team. I'd open the vault for a cower or chucky because it would be worth it and I think both of them would be interested in coaching again, especially if the price is right. Now if we wanted to go the route of hiring a college coach it would have to be a special kind of coach... i think if urban can win it all again we should seriously consider buying out his contract and giving him a shot in the pros. I don't think we should even entertain hiring a coordinator for the job unless he just shines with a brilliance that is undeniable.
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I get it.....Im just being difficult,,,,,,but what I truly think most people dont get....is the one common theme that ALL Super Bowl coaches had is....
They were almost ALL average coaches until they had great teams full of great players.....just a fact......
And, defensive vs offensive doesnt really matter to me.....both have proven to be SB winners.....tho Id prefer a strong defensive identity better for our division....
This is a chicken and egg argument.
What made those players great? Who's to say that it wasn't coaching? Personally, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that we're just drafting "shit" talent year in and year out. At least one third of the people in the draft have the talent to play on Sundays in some capacity. That's 85 new players per year. You're telling me we've somehow managed to not hit on one of them over the past 10 years?
This is a chicken and egg argument.
What made those players great? Who's to say that it wasn't coaching? Personally, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that we're just drafting "shit" talent year in and year out. At least one third of the people in the draft have the talent to play on Sundays in some capacity. That's 85 new players per year. You're telling me we've somehow managed to not hit on one of them over the past 10 years?
I know HC's are important, but I think most of the nuts and bolts stuff is really on the position coaches(teaching individual technique, etc) and the schemes and game plans fall on the coordinators.....
HC has to pick them....assemble a cast, so to speak.....and with a new guy, that may take a while....you can only hire those who are available and Pettine was behind the gun from day one....
THAT is the one concession I see with the proven HC....he has more credibility to assemble a top notch staff....which would make a difference.....cause almost our entire staff is new at their job....both coordinators AND the GM.....alon with pettine
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This is a chicken and egg argument.
What made those players great? Who's to say that it wasn't coaching? Personally, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that we're just drafting "shit" talent year in and year out. At least one third of the people in the draft have the talent to play on Sundays in some capacity. That's 85 new players per year. You're telling me we've somehow managed to not hit on one of them over the past 10 years?
I know HC's are important, but I think most of the nuts and bolts stuff is really on the position coaches(teaching individual technique, etc) and the schemes and game plans fall on the coordinators.....
HC has to pick them....assemble a cast, so to speak.....and with a new guy, that may take a while....you can only hire those who are available and Pettine was behind the gun from day one....
THAT is the one concession I see with the proven HC....he has more credibility to assemble a top notch staff....which would make a difference.....cause almost our entire staff is new at their job....both coordinators AND the GM.....alon with pettine
I know HC's are important, but I think most of the nuts and bolts stuff is really on the position coaches(teaching individual technique, etc) and the schemes and game plans fall on the coordinators.....
HC has to pick them....assemble a cast, so to speak.....and with a new guy, that may take a while....you can only hire those who are available and Pettine was behind the gun from day one....
THAT is the one concession I see with the proven HC....he has more credibility to assemble a top notch staff....which would make a difference.....cause almost our entire staff is new at their job....both coordinators AND the GM.....alon with pettine
The only attribute I really value in a HC is how they maximize the talent of their players as a whole. That's really it. For the most part, in my eyes, playcalling duties need to lie with each coordinator - with the HC dictating general flow of game. Player progression needs to lie with position coaches - with the HC dictating the general overall picture of what he wants each player to be.
The HC manages the team. Coordinators manage their respective rosters. Position coaches manage individual players.
GM stocks the roster. HC figures out how to use the players he's given to win then assembles a staff to suit. Coordinators develop the offense/defense. Position coaches refine the talent.
That's how it works in a successful system. What we currently have is a GM who has a vision for the team, a HC who doesn't agree with the vision, a defensive coordinator who is awful at his job, and an offensive coordinator who is turning garbage into legitimate production...for one half at a time.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
This is a chicken and egg argument.
What made those players great? Who's to say that it wasn't coaching? Personally, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that we're just drafting "shit" talent year in and year out. At least one third of the people in the draft have the talent to play on Sundays in some capacity. That's 85 new players per year. You're telling me we've somehow managed to not hit on one of them over the past 10 years?
I know HC's are important, but I think most of the nuts and bolts stuff is really on the position coaches(teaching individual technique, etc) and the schemes and game plans fall on the coordinators.....
HC has to pick them....assemble a cast, so to speak.....and with a new guy, that may take a while....you can only hire those who are available and Pettine was behind the gun from day one....
THAT is the one concession I see with the proven HC....he has more credibility to assemble a top notch staff....which would make a difference.....cause almost our entire staff is new at their job....both coordinators AND the GM.....alon with pettine
I know HC's are important, but I think most of the nuts and bolts stuff is really on the position coaches(teaching individual technique, etc) and the schemes and game plans fall on the coordinators.....
HC has to pick them....assemble a cast, so to speak.....and with a new guy, that may take a while....you can only hire those who are available and Pettine was behind the gun from day one....
THAT is the one concession I see with the proven HC....he has more credibility to assemble a top notch staff....which would make a difference.....cause almost our entire staff is new at their job....both coordinators AND the GM.....alon with pettine
So basically we have a lot of problems
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I know HC's are important, but I think most of the nuts and bolts stuff is really on the position coaches(teaching individual technique, etc) and the schemes and game plans fall on the coordinators.....
HC has to pick them....assemble a cast, so to speak.....and with a new guy, that may take a while....you can only hire those who are available and Pettine was behind the gun from day one....
THAT is the one concession I see with the proven HC....he has more credibility to assemble a top notch staff....which would make a difference.....cause almost our entire staff is new at their job....both coordinators AND the GM.....alon with pettine
So basically we have a lot of problems
So basically we have a lot of problems
seemingly......I just dont profess to know the exact answer or who's to blame......it's not that clear to my eyes as it is some others, I guess.....like TCPO says he cant believe weve missed on all those players, I would say the same about our whole new staff......they cant ALL suck, can they?...
And, considering they are ALL new at their jobs, Id expect some bad stuff to happen..... But, Id also expect things to improve with time....and we are only 1/2 way into season 2....Id also expect some tinkering would be needed, over several years, to get all the coaches AND players right....call me crazy......
So....w/o knowing WHO to fire, Id dont want to repeat the same mistake weve been making over and over again....for 25 years now... and just fire everybody and start over, because we cant reasonably sort out who and who isnt doing their jobs.......players, coaches, fo.....all of em....
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So basically we have a lot of problems
seemingly......I just dont profess to know the exact answer or who's to blame......it's not that clear to my eyes as it is some others, I guess.....like TCPO says he cant believe weve missed on all those players, I would say the same about our whole new staff......they cant ALL suck, can they?...
And, considering they are ALL new at their jobs, Id expect some bad stuff to happen..... But, Id also expect things to improve with time....and we are only 1/2 way into season 2....Id also expect some tinkering would be needed, over several years, to get all the coaches AND players right....call me crazy......
So....w/o knowing WHO to fire, Id dont want to repeat the same mistake weve been making over and over again....for 25 years now... and just fire everybody and start over, because we cant reasonably sort out who and who isnt doing their jobs.......players, coaches, fo.....all of em....
So....w/o knowing WHO to fire, Id dont want to repeat the same mistake weve been making over and over again....for 25 years now... and just fire everybody and start over, because we cant reasonably sort out who and who isnt doing their jobs.......players, coaches, fo.....all of em....
That would be my opinion as well. I just don't see how firing everyone and starting from scratch is the way to go. That means basically all new players and a coach who wants "his" players to fit "his" scheme and ideas. But I'd also think that if you're going to try to get a "name" coach who has won before, you have to give him the keys to the kingdom.
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Mike Pettine hates kittens, Joe Thomas being penalized at an alarming rate.
Mike Pettine believes Satan is his lord and savior, Taylor Gabriel can't catch a cold.
Mike Pettine shops at Costco, Joe Haden inactive for yeast infection.
Mike Pettine drives a car, someone is currently burning Tramon Williams.
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nah....
I think they should fire Pettine, Oneil, and Farmer immediately, or just after the
squealer game...
and move Flip to interim HC, hire Bernie Kosar as asst OC/play caller, find a
real DC with a real defense tha actually works, and isn't as complicated as
a works of Shakespeare...
and let the other interim GM that was there while Farmer had to take a hike... back in place.
Then hire a real GM next spring.
Piece of cake
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I get it.....Im just being difficult,,,,,,but what I truly think most people dont get....is the one common theme that ALL Super Bowl coaches had is....
They were almost ALL average coaches until they had great teams full of great players.....just a fact......
And, defensive vs offensive doesnt really matter to me.....both have proven to be SB winners.....tho Id prefer a strong defensive identity better for our division....
History has shown a couple of times, that if you have a talented team head coaches can be plug-n-play.I get it.....Im just being difficult,,,,,,but what I truly think most people dont get....is the one common theme that ALL Super Bowl coaches had is....
They were almost ALL average coaches until they had great teams full of great players.....just a fact......
And, defensive vs offensive doesnt really matter to me.....both have proven to be SB winners.....tho Id prefer a strong defensive identity better for our division....
How many time have you thought of George Siefert or Barry Switzer as great HC's?
I mean after all, they are Super Bowl winning head coaches.
However, once you think about the shadow that each crawled out from behind, and the loaded teams they coached...were they really that great?
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nah....
I think they should fire Pettine, Oneil, and Farmer immediately, or just after the
squealer game...
and move Flip to interim HC, hire Bernie Kosar as asst OC/play caller, find a
real DC with a real defense tha actually works, and isn't as complicated as
a works of Shakespeare...
and let the other interim GM that was there while Farmer had to take a hike... back in place.
Then hire a real GM next spring.
Piece of cake
nah....
I think they should fire Pettine, Oneil, and Farmer immediately, or just after the
squealer game...
and move Flip to interim HC, hire Bernie Kosar as asst OC/play caller, find a
real DC with a real defense tha actually works, and isn't as complicated as
a works of Shakespeare...
and let the other interim GM that was there while Farmer had to take a hike... back in place.
Then hire a real GM next spring.
Piece of cake
Hire Flip as the interim head coach? The guy who managed to score 10 points with future hall of fame Johnny Football
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Plenty of coaches to choose from, but it'd probably another 2-year reset because nobody we could get would be experienced enough to be able to maximize our talent in a one-year turnaround... Unless we got a veteran retread along the same lines as a Reed, Fox, Arians, DelRio, or Fisher OR got lucky with a guy like Bowles or Quinn...
Mark wouldn't like it- but if Sean Payton decides to exit New Orleans- back the truck up Jimmy.
I would replace Farmer now, with Bernie Kosar yesterday.
And Pettine - if he won't replace Oneil with a guy with an
INTELLIGENT defense perspective....
Haslam has to get it right one of these days.
We might be long dead before that happens, Cal.
I think Flip stays.
Cal- I'm beginning to see a lot of a young Tom Coughlin in Pettine. Watch him get fired, and learn from his mistakes. (And Mike is Making plenty of them)
If we fail to get the same amount of players to the Pro Bowl that we got two years ago, even if those players are still on our team, wouldn't that be indicative of poor coaching?
Bingo. How can a defensive minded coach let his defense go from almost respectable, to dead skunk stinko in one year? Can't blame the crap run defense on Haden and Gipson being hurt. If he's not playing guys because their not "his" guys, or they have a bad attitude- I think it was said earlier- that's High School level BS.
Mark wouldn't like it- but if Sean Payton decides to exit New Orleans- back the truck up Jimmy.
Cal- I'm beginning to see a lot of a young Tom Coughlin in Pettine. Watch him get fired, and learn from his mistakes. (And Mike is Making plenty of them)
Bingo. How can a defensive minded coach let his defense go from almost respectable, to dead skunk stinko in one year? Can't blame the crap run defense on Haden and Gipson being hurt. If he's not playing guys because their not "his" guys, or they have a bad attitude- I think it was said earlier- that's High School level BS.
Tom Coughlin? Did he coach in the NFL before Jacksonville? Because he had them in the afc championship game in his second year coaching there.
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Mark wouldn't like it- but if Sean Payton decides to exit New Orleans- back the truck up Jimmy.
Cal- I'm beginning to see a lot of a young Tom Coughlin in Pettine. Watch him get fired, and learn from his mistakes. (And Mike is Making plenty of them)
Bingo. How can a defensive minded coach let his defense go from almost respectable, to dead skunk stinko in one year? Can't blame the crap run defense on Haden and Gipson being hurt. If he's not playing guys because their not "his" guys, or they have a bad attitude- I think it was said earlier- that's High School level BS.
Tom Coughlin? Did he coach in the NFL before Jacksonville? Because he had them in the afc championship game in his second year coaching there.
Tom Coughlin? Did he coach in the NFL before Jacksonville? Because he had them in the afc championship game in his second year coaching there.
I was talking about style.
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Plenty of coaches to choose from, but it'd probably another 2-year reset because nobody we could get would be experienced enough to be able to maximize our talent in a one-year turnaround... Unless we got a veteran retread along the same lines as a Reed, Fox, Arians, DelRio, or Fisher OR got lucky with a guy like Bowles or Quinn...
Plenty of coaches to choose from, but it'd probably another 2-year reset because nobody we could get would be experienced enough to be able to maximize our talent in a one-year turnaround... Unless we got a veteran retread along the same lines as a Reed, Fox, Arians, DelRio, or Fisher OR got lucky with a guy like Bowles or Quinn...
Who knows. The team again is in turmoil....What a disgrace and embarrasement...
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