Pettine, Not Farmer, To Blame?
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I get it.....Im just being difficult,,,,,,but what I truly think most people dont get....is the one common theme that ALL Super Bowl coaches had is....
They were almost ALL average coaches until they had great teams full of great players.....just a fact......
And, defensive vs offensive doesnt really matter to me.....both have proven to be SB winners.....tho Id prefer a strong defensive identity better for our division....
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I get it.....Im just being difficult,,,,,,but what I truly think most people dont get....is the one common theme that ALL Super Bowl coaches had is....
They were almost ALL average coaches until they had great teams full of great players.....just a fact......
And, defensive vs offensive doesnt really matter to me.....both have proven to be SB winners.....tho Id prefer a strong defensive identity better for our division....
I get it.....Im just being difficult,,,,,,but what I truly think most people dont get....is the one common theme that ALL Super Bowl coaches had is....
They were almost ALL average coaches until they had great teams full of great players.....just a fact......
And, defensive vs offensive doesnt really matter to me.....both have proven to be SB winners.....tho Id prefer a strong defensive identity better for our division....
This is a chicken and egg argument.
What made those players great? Who's to say that it wasn't coaching? Personally, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that we're just drafting "shit" talent year in and year out. At least one third of the people in the draft have the talent to play on Sundays in some capacity. That's 85 new players per year. You're telling me we've somehow managed to not hit on one of them over the past 10 years?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I just read,the article. I suspected this all along! Why isn't Farmer insisting Pettine play Bowe? My God we payed for him! Pettine seems like a horses ass. His press conferences are always negative and stiff! He won't smile or even pretend he's human. He's a stiff who can't coach and the players know it.
I believe they should call a Players Only Meeting like the Colts did last week. Someone has to change this culture of losing!
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I've been saying 4ever that this team needs an experienced and successful head coach to teach this team how to win but every time its some nobody and its even gotten to the point where i expect nothing less from the morons who run this team. I'd open the vault for a cower or chucky because it would be worth it and I think both of them would be interested in coaching again, especially if the price is right. Now if we wanted to go the route of hiring a college coach it would have to be a special kind of coach... i think if urban can win it all again we should seriously consider buying out his contract and giving him a shot in the pros. I don't think we should even entertain hiring a coordinator for the job unless he just shines with a brilliance that is undeniable.
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I get it.....Im just being difficult,,,,,,but what I truly think most people dont get....is the one common theme that ALL Super Bowl coaches had is....
They were almost ALL average coaches until they had great teams full of great players.....just a fact......
And, defensive vs offensive doesnt really matter to me.....both have proven to be SB winners.....tho Id prefer a strong defensive identity better for our division....
This is a chicken and egg argument.
What made those players great? Who's to say that it wasn't coaching? Personally, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that we're just drafting "shit" talent year in and year out. At least one third of the people in the draft have the talent to play on Sundays in some capacity. That's 85 new players per year. You're telling me we've somehow managed to not hit on one of them over the past 10 years?
This is a chicken and egg argument.
What made those players great? Who's to say that it wasn't coaching? Personally, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that we're just drafting "shit" talent year in and year out. At least one third of the people in the draft have the talent to play on Sundays in some capacity. That's 85 new players per year. You're telling me we've somehow managed to not hit on one of them over the past 10 years?
I know HC's are important, but I think most of the nuts and bolts stuff is really on the position coaches(teaching individual technique, etc) and the schemes and game plans fall on the coordinators.....
HC has to pick them....assemble a cast, so to speak.....and with a new guy, that may take a while....you can only hire those who are available and Pettine was behind the gun from day one....
THAT is the one concession I see with the proven HC....he has more credibility to assemble a top notch staff....which would make a difference.....cause almost our entire staff is new at their job....both coordinators AND the GM.....alon with pettine
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This is a chicken and egg argument.
What made those players great? Who's to say that it wasn't coaching? Personally, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that we're just drafting "shit" talent year in and year out. At least one third of the people in the draft have the talent to play on Sundays in some capacity. That's 85 new players per year. You're telling me we've somehow managed to not hit on one of them over the past 10 years?
I know HC's are important, but I think most of the nuts and bolts stuff is really on the position coaches(teaching individual technique, etc) and the schemes and game plans fall on the coordinators.....
HC has to pick them....assemble a cast, so to speak.....and with a new guy, that may take a while....you can only hire those who are available and Pettine was behind the gun from day one....
THAT is the one concession I see with the proven HC....he has more credibility to assemble a top notch staff....which would make a difference.....cause almost our entire staff is new at their job....both coordinators AND the GM.....alon with pettine
I know HC's are important, but I think most of the nuts and bolts stuff is really on the position coaches(teaching individual technique, etc) and the schemes and game plans fall on the coordinators.....
HC has to pick them....assemble a cast, so to speak.....and with a new guy, that may take a while....you can only hire those who are available and Pettine was behind the gun from day one....
THAT is the one concession I see with the proven HC....he has more credibility to assemble a top notch staff....which would make a difference.....cause almost our entire staff is new at their job....both coordinators AND the GM.....alon with pettine
The only attribute I really value in a HC is how they maximize the talent of their players as a whole. That's really it. For the most part, in my eyes, playcalling duties need to lie with each coordinator - with the HC dictating general flow of game. Player progression needs to lie with position coaches - with the HC dictating the general overall picture of what he wants each player to be.
The HC manages the team. Coordinators manage their respective rosters. Position coaches manage individual players.
GM stocks the roster. HC figures out how to use the players he's given to win then assembles a staff to suit. Coordinators develop the offense/defense. Position coaches refine the talent.
That's how it works in a successful system. What we currently have is a GM who has a vision for the team, a HC who doesn't agree with the vision, a defensive coordinator who is awful at his job, and an offensive coordinator who is turning garbage into legitimate production...for one half at a time.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
This is a chicken and egg argument.
What made those players great? Who's to say that it wasn't coaching? Personally, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that we're just drafting "shit" talent year in and year out. At least one third of the people in the draft have the talent to play on Sundays in some capacity. That's 85 new players per year. You're telling me we've somehow managed to not hit on one of them over the past 10 years?
I know HC's are important, but I think most of the nuts and bolts stuff is really on the position coaches(teaching individual technique, etc) and the schemes and game plans fall on the coordinators.....
HC has to pick them....assemble a cast, so to speak.....and with a new guy, that may take a while....you can only hire those who are available and Pettine was behind the gun from day one....
THAT is the one concession I see with the proven HC....he has more credibility to assemble a top notch staff....which would make a difference.....cause almost our entire staff is new at their job....both coordinators AND the GM.....alon with pettine
I know HC's are important, but I think most of the nuts and bolts stuff is really on the position coaches(teaching individual technique, etc) and the schemes and game plans fall on the coordinators.....
HC has to pick them....assemble a cast, so to speak.....and with a new guy, that may take a while....you can only hire those who are available and Pettine was behind the gun from day one....
THAT is the one concession I see with the proven HC....he has more credibility to assemble a top notch staff....which would make a difference.....cause almost our entire staff is new at their job....both coordinators AND the GM.....alon with pettine
So basically we have a lot of problems
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I know HC's are important, but I think most of the nuts and bolts stuff is really on the position coaches(teaching individual technique, etc) and the schemes and game plans fall on the coordinators.....
HC has to pick them....assemble a cast, so to speak.....and with a new guy, that may take a while....you can only hire those who are available and Pettine was behind the gun from day one....
THAT is the one concession I see with the proven HC....he has more credibility to assemble a top notch staff....which would make a difference.....cause almost our entire staff is new at their job....both coordinators AND the GM.....alon with pettine
So basically we have a lot of problems
So basically we have a lot of problems
seemingly......I just dont profess to know the exact answer or who's to blame......it's not that clear to my eyes as it is some others, I guess.....like TCPO says he cant believe weve missed on all those players, I would say the same about our whole new staff......they cant ALL suck, can they?...
And, considering they are ALL new at their jobs, Id expect some bad stuff to happen..... But, Id also expect things to improve with time....and we are only 1/2 way into season 2....Id also expect some tinkering would be needed, over several years, to get all the coaches AND players right....call me crazy......
So....w/o knowing WHO to fire, Id dont want to repeat the same mistake weve been making over and over again....for 25 years now... and just fire everybody and start over, because we cant reasonably sort out who and who isnt doing their jobs.......players, coaches, fo.....all of em....
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So basically we have a lot of problems
seemingly......I just dont profess to know the exact answer or who's to blame......it's not that clear to my eyes as it is some others, I guess.....like TCPO says he cant believe weve missed on all those players, I would say the same about our whole new staff......they cant ALL suck, can they?...
And, considering they are ALL new at their jobs, Id expect some bad stuff to happen..... But, Id also expect things to improve with time....and we are only 1/2 way into season 2....Id also expect some tinkering would be needed, over several years, to get all the coaches AND players right....call me crazy......
So....w/o knowing WHO to fire, Id dont want to repeat the same mistake weve been making over and over again....for 25 years now... and just fire everybody and start over, because we cant reasonably sort out who and who isnt doing their jobs.......players, coaches, fo.....all of em....
So....w/o knowing WHO to fire, Id dont want to repeat the same mistake weve been making over and over again....for 25 years now... and just fire everybody and start over, because we cant reasonably sort out who and who isnt doing their jobs.......players, coaches, fo.....all of em....
That would be my opinion as well. I just don't see how firing everyone and starting from scratch is the way to go. That means basically all new players and a coach who wants "his" players to fit "his" scheme and ideas. But I'd also think that if you're going to try to get a "name" coach who has won before, you have to give him the keys to the kingdom.
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Mike Pettine hates kittens, Joe Thomas being penalized at an alarming rate.
Mike Pettine believes Satan is his lord and savior, Taylor Gabriel can't catch a cold.
Mike Pettine shops at Costco, Joe Haden inactive for yeast infection.
Mike Pettine drives a car, someone is currently burning Tramon Williams.
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nah....
I think they should fire Pettine, Oneil, and Farmer immediately, or just after the
squealer game...
and move Flip to interim HC, hire Bernie Kosar as asst OC/play caller, find a
real DC with a real defense tha actually works, and isn't as complicated as
a works of Shakespeare...
and let the other interim GM that was there while Farmer had to take a hike... back in place.
Then hire a real GM next spring.
Piece of cake
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I get it.....Im just being difficult,,,,,,but what I truly think most people dont get....is the one common theme that ALL Super Bowl coaches had is....
They were almost ALL average coaches until they had great teams full of great players.....just a fact......
And, defensive vs offensive doesnt really matter to me.....both have proven to be SB winners.....tho Id prefer a strong defensive identity better for our division....
History has shown a couple of times, that if you have a talented team head coaches can be plug-n-play.I get it.....Im just being difficult,,,,,,but what I truly think most people dont get....is the one common theme that ALL Super Bowl coaches had is....
They were almost ALL average coaches until they had great teams full of great players.....just a fact......
And, defensive vs offensive doesnt really matter to me.....both have proven to be SB winners.....tho Id prefer a strong defensive identity better for our division....
How many time have you thought of George Siefert or Barry Switzer as great HC's?
I mean after all, they are Super Bowl winning head coaches.
However, once you think about the shadow that each crawled out from behind, and the loaded teams they coached...were they really that great?
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nah....
I think they should fire Pettine, Oneil, and Farmer immediately, or just after the
squealer game...
and move Flip to interim HC, hire Bernie Kosar as asst OC/play caller, find a
real DC with a real defense tha actually works, and isn't as complicated as
a works of Shakespeare...
and let the other interim GM that was there while Farmer had to take a hike... back in place.
Then hire a real GM next spring.
Piece of cake
nah....
I think they should fire Pettine, Oneil, and Farmer immediately, or just after the
squealer game...
and move Flip to interim HC, hire Bernie Kosar as asst OC/play caller, find a
real DC with a real defense tha actually works, and isn't as complicated as
a works of Shakespeare...
and let the other interim GM that was there while Farmer had to take a hike... back in place.
Then hire a real GM next spring.
Piece of cake
Hire Flip as the interim head coach? The guy who managed to score 10 points with future hall of fame Johnny Football
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Plenty of coaches to choose from, but it'd probably another 2-year reset because nobody we could get would be experienced enough to be able to maximize our talent in a one-year turnaround... Unless we got a veteran retread along the same lines as a Reed, Fox, Arians, DelRio, or Fisher OR got lucky with a guy like Bowles or Quinn...
Mark wouldn't like it- but if Sean Payton decides to exit New Orleans- back the truck up Jimmy.
I would replace Farmer now, with Bernie Kosar yesterday.
And Pettine - if he won't replace Oneil with a guy with an
INTELLIGENT defense perspective....
Haslam has to get it right one of these days.
We might be long dead before that happens, Cal.
I think Flip stays.
Cal- I'm beginning to see a lot of a young Tom Coughlin in Pettine. Watch him get fired, and learn from his mistakes. (And Mike is Making plenty of them)
If we fail to get the same amount of players to the Pro Bowl that we got two years ago, even if those players are still on our team, wouldn't that be indicative of poor coaching?
Bingo. How can a defensive minded coach let his defense go from almost respectable, to dead skunk stinko in one year? Can't blame the crap run defense on Haden and Gipson being hurt. If he's not playing guys because their not "his" guys, or they have a bad attitude- I think it was said earlier- that's High School level BS.
Mark wouldn't like it- but if Sean Payton decides to exit New Orleans- back the truck up Jimmy.
Cal- I'm beginning to see a lot of a young Tom Coughlin in Pettine. Watch him get fired, and learn from his mistakes. (And Mike is Making plenty of them)
Bingo. How can a defensive minded coach let his defense go from almost respectable, to dead skunk stinko in one year? Can't blame the crap run defense on Haden and Gipson being hurt. If he's not playing guys because their not "his" guys, or they have a bad attitude- I think it was said earlier- that's High School level BS.
Tom Coughlin? Did he coach in the NFL before Jacksonville? Because he had them in the afc championship game in his second year coaching there.
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Mark wouldn't like it- but if Sean Payton decides to exit New Orleans- back the truck up Jimmy.
Cal- I'm beginning to see a lot of a young Tom Coughlin in Pettine. Watch him get fired, and learn from his mistakes. (And Mike is Making plenty of them)
Bingo. How can a defensive minded coach let his defense go from almost respectable, to dead skunk stinko in one year? Can't blame the crap run defense on Haden and Gipson being hurt. If he's not playing guys because their not "his" guys, or they have a bad attitude- I think it was said earlier- that's High School level BS.
Tom Coughlin? Did he coach in the NFL before Jacksonville? Because he had them in the afc championship game in his second year coaching there.
Tom Coughlin? Did he coach in the NFL before Jacksonville? Because he had them in the afc championship game in his second year coaching there.
I was talking about style.
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Plenty of coaches to choose from, but it'd probably another 2-year reset because nobody we could get would be experienced enough to be able to maximize our talent in a one-year turnaround... Unless we got a veteran retread along the same lines as a Reed, Fox, Arians, DelRio, or Fisher OR got lucky with a guy like Bowles or Quinn...
Plenty of coaches to choose from, but it'd probably another 2-year reset because nobody we could get would be experienced enough to be able to maximize our talent in a one-year turnaround... Unless we got a veteran retread along the same lines as a Reed, Fox, Arians, DelRio, or Fisher OR got lucky with a guy like Bowles or Quinn...
Who knows. The team again is in turmoil....What a disgrace and embarrasement...
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Anyone ever give any thought to giving Chris Tabor a shot at being the next Head Coach? Definitely has the passion and fire to lead. I'm about 1000% positive that pettine and farmer is doing everything in there power to win football games.I mean they are in a fight for their jobs and careers here.The problem is they just are not being very effective at their jobs. Farmer's FA Acquisitions have been from mediocre at best to incompetence at worst. Pettine appears to be frustrated that his "system" isn't as effective as he thought it would be. players have been under-performing at offensive skill positions (WR/RB). as far as pettine is concerned I think he is putting too much stock into his "system" and not enough stock into how to properly utilize the skillset our players have.
I find it hard to believe that each player is having a bad year. It is alot more likely our coach is having a bad year or possibly has an ineffective system installed. The regression shown on defense and to smaller extent the offense has given me enough reason to want to see some coaching changes. The fact farmer spent so much of our cap on veteran players that have been so ineffective for us. Is very alarming and very detrimental to the team's future. His draft picks have been pretty suspect as well. not to mention he served a 4 game suspension at the beginning of the year. I don't forsee his return as gm in cleveland next year. Pettine could be back if we start winning some games and the defense turns the corner. So far i have just seen regression so i doubt it but maybe.
As far as Tabor being the HC i think he has the fire and he HAS to love cleveland 4 years couple of owners 3 or 4 head coaches? and our ST play has been some of the best in the league under him. We will need to get some Veteran Coordinators to help him in his transition to HC. I feel like he is the type of guy that isn't as interested in schemes and playbooks and getting this player to win the way he wants to win. He's the Special Teams coach. The every player needs to be the winner mentality. Never Quit always battle. maybe we dont need the next offensive genius or the next defensive mastermind. Maybe we need the guy that actually teaches fearlessness and mental toughness. we may not be the most talented team on the field but by god we would pay with heart. -
Anyone ever give any thought to giving Chris Tabor a shot at being the next Head Coach? Definitely has the passion and fire to lead. I'm about 1000% positive that pettine and farmer is doing everything in there power to win football games.I mean they are in a fight for their jobs and careers here.The problem is they just are not being very effective at their jobs. Farmer's FA Acquisitions have been from mediocre at best to incompetence at worst. Pettine appears to be frustrated that his "system" isn't as effective as he thought it would be. players have been under-performing at offensive skill positions (WR/RB). as far as pettine is concerned I think he is putting too much stock into his "system" and not enough stock into how to properly utilize the skillset our players have.
I find it hard to believe that each player is having a bad year. It is alot more likely our coach is having a bad year or possibly has an ineffective system installed. The regression shown on defense and to smaller extent the offense has given me enough reason to want to see some coaching changes. The fact farmer spent so much of our cap on veteran players that have been so ineffective for us. Is very alarming and very detrimental to the team's future. His draft picks have been pretty suspect as well. not to mention he served a 4 game suspension at the beginning of the year. I don't forsee his return as gm in cleveland next year. Pettine could be back if we start winning some games and the defense turns the corner. So far i have just seen regression so i doubt it but maybe.
As far as Tabor being the HC i think he has the fire and he HAS to love cleveland 4 years couple of owners 3 or 4 head coaches? and our ST play has been some of the best in the league under him. We will need to get some Veteran Coordinators to help him in his transition to HC. I feel like he is the type of guy that isn't as interested in schemes and playbooks and getting this player to win the way he wants to win. He's the Special Teams coach. The every player needs to be the winner mentality. Never Quit always battle. maybe we dont need the next offensive genius or the next defensive mastermind. Maybe we need the guy that actually teaches fearlessness and mental toughness. we may not be the most talented team on the field but by god we would pay with heart.
Chris this is not the right place to plead your case.Anyone ever give any thought to giving Chris Tabor a shot at being the next Head Coach? Definitely has the passion and fire to lead. I'm about 1000% positive that pettine and farmer is doing everything in there power to win football games.I mean they are in a fight for their jobs and careers here.The problem is they just are not being very effective at their jobs. Farmer's FA Acquisitions have been from mediocre at best to incompetence at worst. Pettine appears to be frustrated that his "system" isn't as effective as he thought it would be. players have been under-performing at offensive skill positions (WR/RB). as far as pettine is concerned I think he is putting too much stock into his "system" and not enough stock into how to properly utilize the skillset our players have.
I find it hard to believe that each player is having a bad year. It is alot more likely our coach is having a bad year or possibly has an ineffective system installed. The regression shown on defense and to smaller extent the offense has given me enough reason to want to see some coaching changes. The fact farmer spent so much of our cap on veteran players that have been so ineffective for us. Is very alarming and very detrimental to the team's future. His draft picks have been pretty suspect as well. not to mention he served a 4 game suspension at the beginning of the year. I don't forsee his return as gm in cleveland next year. Pettine could be back if we start winning some games and the defense turns the corner. So far i have just seen regression so i doubt it but maybe.
As far as Tabor being the HC i think he has the fire and he HAS to love cleveland 4 years couple of owners 3 or 4 head coaches? and our ST play has been some of the best in the league under him. We will need to get some Veteran Coordinators to help him in his transition to HC. I feel like he is the type of guy that isn't as interested in schemes and playbooks and getting this player to win the way he wants to win. He's the Special Teams coach. The every player needs to be the winner mentality. Never Quit always battle. maybe we dont need the next offensive genius or the next defensive mastermind. Maybe we need the guy that actually teaches fearlessness and mental toughness. we may not be the most talented team on the field but by god we would pay with heart.
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Anyone ever give any thought to giving Chris Tabor a shot at being the next Head Coach? Definitely has the passion and fire to lead. I'm about 1000% positive that pettine and farmer is doing everything in there power to win football games.I mean they are in a fight for their jobs and careers here.The problem is they just are not being very effective at their jobs. Farmer's FA Acquisitions have been from mediocre at best to incompetence at worst. Pettine appears to be frustrated that his "system" isn't as effective as he thought it would be. players have been under-performing at offensive skill positions (WR/RB). as far as pettine is concerned I think he is putting too much stock into his "system" and not enough stock into how to properly utilize the skillset our players have.
I find it hard to believe that each player is having a bad year. It is alot more likely our coach is having a bad year or possibly has an ineffective system installed. The regression shown on defense and to smaller extent the offense has given me enough reason to want to see some coaching changes. The fact farmer spent so much of our cap on veteran players that have been so ineffective for us. Is very alarming and very detrimental to the team's future. His draft picks have been pretty suspect as well. not to mention he served a 4 game suspension at the beginning of the year. I don't forsee his return as gm in cleveland next year. Pettine could be back if we start winning some games and the defense turns the corner. So far i have just seen regression so i doubt it but maybe.
As far as Tabor being the HC i think he has the fire and he HAS to love cleveland 4 years couple of owners 3 or 4 head coaches? and our ST play has been some of the best in the league under him. We will need to get some Veteran Coordinators to help him in his transition to HC. I feel like he is the type of guy that isn't as interested in schemes and playbooks and getting this player to win the way he wants to win. He's the Special Teams coach. The every player needs to be the winner mentality. Never Quit always battle. maybe we dont need the next offensive genius or the next defensive mastermind. Maybe we need the guy that actually teaches fearlessness and mental toughness. we may not be the most talented team on the field but by god we would pay with heart.Anyone ever give any thought to giving Chris Tabor a shot at being the next Head Coach? Definitely has the passion and fire to lead. I'm about 1000% positive that pettine and farmer is doing everything in there power to win football games.I mean they are in a fight for their jobs and careers here.The problem is they just are not being very effective at their jobs. Farmer's FA Acquisitions have been from mediocre at best to incompetence at worst. Pettine appears to be frustrated that his "system" isn't as effective as he thought it would be. players have been under-performing at offensive skill positions (WR/RB). as far as pettine is concerned I think he is putting too much stock into his "system" and not enough stock into how to properly utilize the skillset our players have.
I find it hard to believe that each player is having a bad year. It is alot more likely our coach is having a bad year or possibly has an ineffective system installed. The regression shown on defense and to smaller extent the offense has given me enough reason to want to see some coaching changes. The fact farmer spent so much of our cap on veteran players that have been so ineffective for us. Is very alarming and very detrimental to the team's future. His draft picks have been pretty suspect as well. not to mention he served a 4 game suspension at the beginning of the year. I don't forsee his return as gm in cleveland next year. Pettine could be back if we start winning some games and the defense turns the corner. So far i have just seen regression so i doubt it but maybe.
As far as Tabor being the HC i think he has the fire and he HAS to love cleveland 4 years couple of owners 3 or 4 head coaches? and our ST play has been some of the best in the league under him. We will need to get some Veteran Coordinators to help him in his transition to HC. I feel like he is the type of guy that isn't as interested in schemes and playbooks and getting this player to win the way he wants to win. He's the Special Teams coach. The every player needs to be the winner mentality. Never Quit always battle. maybe we dont need the next offensive genius or the next defensive mastermind. Maybe we need the guy that actually teaches fearlessness and mental toughness. we may not be the most talented team on the field but by god we would pay with heart.
Chris Tabor, ladies and gentlemen.
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Farmer is the only one that should be fired. Petine is doin the best with what he's got.
A coach gotta have talent to succeed. Great talent trumps great coaching.
You think Belicheck could take this group and turn them into a winner?
The Cowboys under Barry Switzer won the Super Bowl because they had talent. Barry Switzer was a bum.
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