Week 11 starting QB's
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What kills me right now is that it won't be terribly easy to grade Johnny Manziel with the team as a whole playing so poorly. I mean, if we're giving up 30 points a game, I don't know many second year qb's that are going to pull out the win. It'd be one thing if we had viable red zone targets, or if we could actually RUN THE DAMN BALL INTO THE END ZONE, but to say that we're extremely deficient where it matters most would be the understatement of the decade.
Listen, it's a HUGE "if", but if Manziel keeps progressing and turns into the kind of playmaker that will be here for years, all of the sudden our QB position is completely set. We'd have the young, exciting QB, and then we'd have the proven veteran QB to come in for a few games if Johnny gets hurt. Most qb's don't make it through all 16 games, and a viable backup can literally save the season.
I completely understand that Manziel isn't there yet, so please don't bite my head off. Right now I'm hoping beyond hope that he's our guy for a couple of reasons. First and foremost, we're all COMPLETELY tired of hearing how many QB's we've started over the years. We as fans desperately want that one guy we can root for over the span of a decade or more. And secondly, how much FUN would it be to watch Johnny play every week "IF" he's playing better and better? That one "touchdown" run he had that was called back was completely insane. No other QB in the league could do that.
Something else not fair to Johnny is the complete and total lack of weapons he has to use in the game. God forbid he have one WR that can take a pass the distance. How many times have our guys been tackled at around the 5 or 10 yard line and have it lead to a FG or turnover on downs?
Johnny is going to have some bad games, I can't think of many second year QB's that don't. I so desperately want him to succeed, for many reasons. I also want our damn defense to actually keep us CLOSE so we can see what Johnny looks like under pressure. What's he going to do when we're down 4 points, we have the ball, and there's 2 minutes left? That's what I want to see, but we're not going to see it unless our defense somehow gets it together.
I'd meet you halfway on that-I hear what you're saying, but there's also many ways to evaluate how a QB looks despite players around him. No matter how you slice it, Manziel played a pretty damn good game of football against the Steelers (and I know that's what you're saying so not disagreeing). He had a bad fumble and a desperation INT, but he objectively had at least one TD more on the board and really two. I really like the QB class coming out this year in the draft, but it would be so nice to see Manziel be the guy instead. If he plays like he did last week for the rest of the season that would be really encouraging to say the least.
I'd meet you halfway on that-I hear what you're saying, but there's also many ways to evaluate how a QB looks despite players around him. No matter how you slice it, Manziel played a pretty damn good game of football against the Steelers (and I know that's what you're saying so not disagreeing). He had a bad fumble and a desperation INT, but he objectively had at least one TD more on the board and really two. I really like the QB class coming out this year in the draft, but it would be so nice to see Manziel be the guy instead. If he plays like he did last week for the rest of the season that would be really encouraging to say the least.
So if you watched last night's game then you must have seen how much both Bortles and Mariotta struggled just to hit their wide open larger receivers in comparison to JM's performance. And one has started a year and a half and the other all this year. New QB's struggle. I just hope the Browns fan base can see that before once again sending a QB to QB oblivion. JM is starting to look like the player we want, but he will need time. Get him a running game and one more tall, fast receiver besides Josh Gordon and we may actually see a consistently decent offense.
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Again, not sure Farmer is the problem......though his record isn't good. DC is the major problem on this team.....or HC if the DC is just running the HC's system.....which is a suck ass system.
Farmer has had 4 first round picks, none of them have been impact players and my confidence in him is shot.
Farmer has had 4 first round picks, none of them have been impact players and my confidence in him is shot.
I would only argue that....
1) Its way way too early on Erving and Shelton.....
2) While they arent "immediate impact" players, can you name someone who was taken AFTER them that was an impact player?...
(here's a chance to go cherry pick the one guy who was.....if there is one.......)
Seriously tho.....are we gonna blame the GM for missing out on something that wasnt actually there to begin with.....?
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I'd meet you halfway on that-I hear what you're saying, but there's also many ways to evaluate how a QB looks despite players around him. No matter how you slice it, Manziel played a pretty damn good game of football against the Steelers (and I know that's what you're saying so not disagreeing). He had a bad fumble and a desperation INT, but he objectively had at least one TD more on the board and really two. I really like the QB class coming out this year in the draft, but it would be so nice to see Manziel be the guy instead. If he plays like he did last week for the rest of the season that would be really encouraging to say the least.
So if you watched last night's game then you must have seen how much both Bortles and Mariotta struggled just to hit their wide open larger receivers in comparison to JM's performance. And one has started a year and a half and the other all this year. New QB's struggle. I just hope the Browns fan base can see that before once again sending a QB to QB oblivion. JM is starting to look like the player we want, but he will need time. Get him a running game and one more tall, fast receiver besides Josh Gordon and we may actually see a consistently decent offense.
So if you watched last night's game then you must have seen how much both Bortles and Mariotta struggled just to hit their wide open larger receivers in comparison to JM's performance. And one has started a year and a half and the other all this year. New QB's struggle. I just hope the Browns fan base can see that before once again sending a QB to QB oblivion. JM is starting to look like the player we want, but he will need time. Get him a running game and one more tall, fast receiver besides Josh Gordon and we may actually see a consistently decent offense.
Well, he has the rest of this year to show what he's got.
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Farmer has had 4 first round picks, none of them have been impact players and my confidence in him is shot.
I would only argue that....
1) Its way way too early on Erving and Shelton.....
2) While they arent "immediate impact" players, can you name someone who was taken AFTER them that was an impact player?...
(here's a chance to go cherry pick the one guy who was.....if there is one.......)
Seriously tho.....are we gonna blame the GM for missing out on something that wasnt actually there to begin with.....?
I would only argue that....
1) Its way way too early on Erving and Shelton.....
2) While they arent "immediate impact" players, can you name someone who was taken AFTER them that was an impact player?...
(here's a chance to go cherry pick the one guy who was.....if there is one.......)
Seriously tho.....are we gonna blame the GM for missing out on something that wasnt actually there to begin with.....?
1) See my comment below about Shelton & Erving.
2) If we're going to give Farmer a flyer on the 2015 draft due to a thin draft class, we would also have to apply that same philosophy to Banner/Lombardi for the Mingo pick.
I didn't say they were a bust, but they just don't strike me as a standout player.
Could those 2 become standout players...yes.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
I'd meet you halfway on that-I hear what you're saying, but there's also many ways to evaluate how a QB looks despite players around him. No matter how you slice it, Manziel played a pretty damn good game of football against the Steelers (and I know that's what you're saying so not disagreeing). He had a bad fumble and a desperation INT, but he objectively had at least one TD more on the board and really two. I really like the QB class coming out this year in the draft, but it would be so nice to see Manziel be the guy instead. If he plays like he did last week for the rest of the season that would be really encouraging to say the least.
So if you watched last night's game then you must have seen how much both Bortles and Mariotta struggled just to hit their wide open larger receivers in comparison to JM's performance. And one has started a year and a half and the other all this year. New QB's struggle. I just hope the Browns fan base can see that before once again sending a QB to QB oblivion. JM is starting to look like the player we want, but he will need time. Get him a running game and one more tall, fast receiver besides Josh Gordon and we may actually see a consistently decent offense.
So if you watched last night's game then you must have seen how much both Bortles and Mariotta struggled just to hit their wide open larger receivers in comparison to JM's performance. And one has started a year and a half and the other all this year. New QB's struggle. I just hope the Browns fan base can see that before once again sending a QB to QB oblivion. JM is starting to look like the player we want, but he will need time. Get him a running game and one more tall, fast receiver besides Josh Gordon and we may actually see a consistently decent offense.
Yeah- I posted in another thread Weeden got way more than11 starts before the Browns pulled the plug on him- and he had Josh Gordon.
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I'd meet you halfway on that-I hear what you're saying, but there's also many ways to evaluate how a QB looks despite players around him. No matter how you slice it, Manziel played a pretty damn good game of football against the Steelers (and I know that's what you're saying so not disagreeing). He had a bad fumble and a desperation INT, but he objectively had at least one TD more on the board and really two. I really like the QB class coming out this year in the draft, but it would be so nice to see Manziel be the guy instead. If he plays like he did last week for the rest of the season that would be really encouraging to say the least.
So if you watched last night's game then you must have seen how much both Bortles and Mariotta struggled just to hit their wide open larger receivers in comparison to JM's performance. And one has started a year and a half and the other all this year. New QB's struggle. I just hope the Browns fan base can see that before once again sending a QB to QB oblivion. JM is starting to look like the player we want, but he will need time. Get him a running game and one more tall, fast receiver besides Josh Gordon and we may actually see a consistently decent offense.
So if you watched last night's game then you must have seen how much both Bortles and Mariotta struggled just to hit their wide open larger receivers in comparison to JM's performance. And one has started a year and a half and the other all this year. New QB's struggle. I just hope the Browns fan base can see that before once again sending a QB to QB oblivion. JM is starting to look like the player we want, but he will need time. Get him a running game and one more tall, fast receiver besides Josh Gordon and we may actually see a consistently decent offense.
Because Browns fans sent Quinn, Weeden, McCoy et al into oblivion?
No, they went into oblivion because they sucked.
He needs to impress the coaching staff and the decision makers upstairs, not us.
They understand his experience level.
Fuck you for blaming the Browns fan base, loser.
And fuck you for premade excuses.
Johnny is going to rock and roll.
Go root for Osweiler, Assclown.
Z
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So if you watched last night's game then you must have seen how much both Bortles and Mariotta struggled just to hit their wide open larger receivers in comparison to JM's performance. And one has started a year and a half and the other all this year. New QB's struggle. I just hope the Browns fan base can see that before once again sending a QB to QB oblivion. JM is starting to look like the player we want, but he will need time. Get him a running game and one more tall, fast receiver besides Josh Gordon and we may actually see a consistently decent offense.
Because Browns fans sent Quinn, Weeden, McCoy et al into oblivion?
No, they went into oblivion because they sucked.
He needs to impress the coaching staff and the decision makers upstairs, not us.
They understand his experience level.
Fuck you for blaming the Browns fan base, loser.
And fuck you for premade excuses.
Johnny is going to rock and roll.
Go root for Osweiler, Assclown.
Z
Zombo said:
Because Browns fans sent Quinn, Weeden, McCoy et al into oblivion?
No, they went into oblivion because they sucked.
He needs to impress the coaching staff and the decision makers upstairs, not us.
They understand his experience level.
Fuck you for blaming the Browns fan base, loser.
And fuck you for premade excuses.
Johnny is going to rock and roll.
Go root for Osweiler, Assclown.
Z
I love you too Z.
But just admit that without a running threat there is one hand tied behind him. But then he has had that since HS so like you, I expect he will show enough that the knowledgeable fans here will see it despite that handicap. Now if we also play him at corner and we fail to win, then ship him out.
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Zombo said:
Because Browns fans sent Quinn, Weeden, McCoy et al into oblivion?
No, they went into oblivion because they sucked.
He needs to impress the coaching staff and the decision makers upstairs, not us.
They understand his experience level.
Fuck you for blaming the Browns fan base, loser.
And fuck you for premade excuses.
Johnny is going to rock and roll.
Go root for Osweiler, Assclown.
Z
I love you too Z.
But just admit that without a running threat there is one hand tied behind him. But then he has had that since HS so like you, I expect he will show enough that the knowledgeable fans here will see it despite that handicap. Now if we also play him at corner and we fail to win, then ship him out.
But just admit that without a running threat there is one hand tied behind him.
I will tell you the same thing I told Vagitron when he didn't want to make his bet unless there was an injury clause ... don't be such a pussy.
We have not had a running game all year, yet both quarterbacks have played well, and I expect that to continue.
It's OK ... your little Johnny is going to swim in the big boy pool now, let go of his arm and let him sink or swim.
Zombo
--Johnny can always make his own running game.
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Osweiler Assclown...sounds like a ringer...lol
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I would only argue that....
1) Its way way too early on Erving and Shelton.....
2) While they arent "immediate impact" players, can you name someone who was taken AFTER them that was an impact player?...
(here's a chance to go cherry pick the one guy who was.....if there is one.......)
Seriously tho.....are we gonna blame the GM for missing out on something that wasnt actually there to begin with.....?
1) See my comment below about Shelton & Erving.
2) If we're going to give Farmer a flyer on the 2015 draft due to a thin draft class, we would also have to apply that same philosophy to Banner/Lombardi for the Mingo pick.
I didn't say they were a bust, but they just don't strike me as a standout player.
Could those 2 become standout players...yes.
If we're going to give Farmer a flyer on the 2015 draft due to a thin draft class, we would also have to apply that same philosophy to Banner/Lombardi for the Mingo pick.
Yep....I always have......2013 is one of the worst draft classes ever.......and every GM has taken heat for that year, yet there was no one good to pick....(esp if you were picking LB)
Id say Mingo is arguably still the best LB from that class...he's at least in the convo.....
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Don't forget the Bills.But....the Cowboys get Romo back. Whoopdeefuckingdoo.
And who is starting for the Tits? Is Mariota out or is he back.
And in Philly you probably have Mark Sanchez.
And have the Jets figured anything out?
There may be more teams with worse QB situations than you thought.
How about this scenario....Manziel plays well the rest of the year and the defense still manages to lose every game.
IF, the Browns have the number 1 pick in the draft and doesn't feel the need for a QB, just think of the trade offers that will come our way?
Yet again, if Farmer is still GM....never mind.
Don't forget the Bills.
How about this scenario....Manziel plays well the rest of the year and the defense still manages to lose every game.
IF, the Browns have the number 1 pick in the draft and doesn't feel the need for a QB, just think of the trade offers that will come our way?
Yet again, if Farmer is still GM....never mind.
If Manziel plays well, why exactly would it be a bad thing that Farmer is GM?
Just because he didn't draft the guys you wanted?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Again, not sure Farmer is the problem......though his record isn't good. DC is the major problem on this team.....or HC if the DC is just running the HC's system.....which is a suck ass system.
Farmer has had 4 first round picks, none of them have been impact players and my confidence in him is shot.
Farmer has had 4 first round picks, none of them have been impact players and my confidence in him is shot.
Oh no! Your confidence! How will we live?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Don't forget the Bills.
How about this scenario....Manziel plays well the rest of the year and the defense still manages to lose every game.
IF, the Browns have the number 1 pick in the draft and doesn't feel the need for a QB, just think of the trade offers that will come our way?
Yet again, if Farmer is still GM....never mind.
If Manziel plays well, why exactly would it be a bad thing that Farmer is GM?
Just because he didn't draft the guys you wanted?
He hasn't really hit it out of the park with his other first picks.....now has he?If Manziel plays well, why exactly would it be a bad thing that Farmer is GM?
It's not about the guys I wanted, it's about nailing 1st round picks. Take a look at what the Vikings and Rams have drafted in the 1st round over the last few years. Farmer should take notes.Just because he didn't draft the guys you wanted?
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Farmer has had 4 first round picks, none of them have been impact players and my confidence in him is shot.
Oh no! Your confidence! How will we live?
Oh no! Your confidence! How will we live?
I'm sorry Mrs Farmer, did I hurt your feelings?
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Oh no! Your confidence! How will we live?
I'm sorry Mrs Farmer, did I hurt your feelings?
I'm sorry Mrs Farmer, did I hurt your feelings?
Not really, your shitty opinion is just easy to mock.
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I'm sorry Mrs Farmer, did I hurt your feelings?
Not really, your shitty opinion is just easy to mock.
Not really, your shitty opinion is just easy to mock.
Whatever you say sweet cheeks.
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Not really, your shitty opinion is just easy to mock.
Whatever you say sweet cheeks.
Whatever you say sweet cheeks.
Kisses.
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If we're going to give Farmer a flyer on the 2015 draft due to a thin draft class, we would also have to apply that same philosophy to Banner/Lombardi for the Mingo pick.
Yep....I always have......2013 is one of the worst draft classes ever.......and every GM has taken heat for that year, yet there was no one good to pick....(esp if you were picking LB)
Id say Mingo is arguably still the best LB from that class...he's at least in the convo.....
Yep....I always have......2013 is one of the worst draft classes ever.......and every GM has taken heat for that year, yet there was no one good to pick....(esp if you were picking LB)
Id say Mingo is arguably still the best LB from that class...he's at least in the convo.....
You are right.....that 2013 has been a very underachieving draft overall. The best picks, believe it or not, may have been two RBs: Levon Bell and Eddie Lacy (now both on the shelf with injuries or underperformance.
the Browns best pick was 7th rounder Armonty Bryant.
The Best QBs....even now: Geno Smith, EJ Manuel, and Mike Glennon.
An ugly draft.
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Don't forget the Bills.But....the Cowboys get Romo back. Whoopdeefuckingdoo.
And who is starting for the Tits? Is Mariota out or is he back.
And in Philly you probably have Mark Sanchez.
And have the Jets figured anything out?
There may be more teams with worse QB situations than you thought.
How about this scenario....Manziel plays well the rest of the year and the defense still manages to lose every game.
IF, the Browns have the number 1 pick in the draft and doesn't feel the need for a QB, just think of the trade offers that will come our way?
Yet again, if Farmer is still GM....never mind.
IF, the Browns have the number 1 pick in the draft and doesn't feel the need for a QB, just think of the trade offers that will come our way?
Without a clear-cut, slam-dunk QB prospect, the price will not be all that high. And FYI, regardless of how JM finishes, if there was such a prospect, we would take him.
What kills me right now is that it won't be terribly easy to grade Johnny Manziel with the team as a whole playing so poorly. I mean, if we're giving up 30 points a game, I don't know many second year qb's that are going to pull out the win.
Another already pointed it out, but W/L is not the basis for evaluating QB.
For all the questioning of our staff, their evaluation and "handling" of JM to this point has been spot on. There is no reason to expect that to change the remainder of 2015.
I would only argue that....
1) Its way way too early on Erving and Shelton.....
2) While they arent "immediate impact" players, can you name someone who was taken AFTER them that was an impact player?...
(here's a chance to go cherry pick the one guy who was.....if there is one.......)
Do they play "impact positions"?
As for later picks... point taken... pretty slim pickings. Nonetheless cases could be made for:
Vikes' Kendricks (ILB, R2) and TJ Clemmings (OT, R4) and Stephon Diggs (WR, R5). Vikes had a helluva draft.
A couple other later OL stepped right into starting roles: KC's Morse (OG, R2) and DNV's Sambraillo (LT, R2).
Biggest impact might be Yeldon (R2) on TB's run game... day 1 starter, 14th in rushing and the leading rookie not named Gurley.
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