Anyone getting warmer on Bosa after last night?
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Zombo said:
I don't see this team losing again.
I'm sorry what now? You do know that the Browns continue to play NFL teams the rest of the way right? It's not like they're getting to the MAC part of the schedule....have yous seen who we play the rest of the season? Bengals again, Seattle, KC...Pgh again. We might be able to beat the 9'ers, that's it. Monday is our last winnable game till Dec 13th.
I'm sorry what now? You do know that the Browns continue to play NFL teams the rest of the way right? It's not like they're getting to the MAC part of the schedule....have yous seen who we play the rest of the season? Bengals again, Seattle, KC...Pgh again. We might be able to beat the 9'ers, that's it. Monday is our last winnable game till Dec 13th.
Every single fucking game is winnable.
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I'm sorry what now? You do know that the Browns continue to play NFL teams the rest of the way right? It's not like they're getting to the MAC part of the schedule....have yous seen who we play the rest of the season? Bengals again, Seattle, KC...Pgh again. We might be able to beat the 9'ers, that's it. Monday is our last winnable game till Dec 13th.
Every single fucking game is winnable.
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Desmond and Cooper would be your starters at the 3 spot. Sheldon, Hughes at the 1 with Meder and Wynn rotating between the two.
Then you have Kruger, Bosa, Monty, Bloodbath as your end/5 looks. That would allow Orchard and Mingo to man the WLB and SLB while contributing on 3rd downs, obvious passing situations and the 5th/6th man on pressures packages.
You still want Kruger and Soloman on the team next year? why? I want those guys dropped and the scheme changed. Even if the scheme stays i want those guys out.
You still want Kruger and Soloman on the team next year? why? I want those guys dropped and the scheme changed. Even if the scheme stays i want those guys out.
Never said I did, merely giving examples of a lineup including our current personnel.
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disagree that Bosa would make Kruger better. How would the presence of a higher skilled pass rusher improve Krugers limited pass rushing repertoire? And i'm being kind when i say "limited". Kruger is one of the guys i don't want to see in a Browns uni next year. If he is here, he's depth that's all. And when he does come in it should be strict instructions to just bullrush. Our starting DE"s next year, god willing, should be Bosa and Monty...with Desmond sliding around from DT to DE to spell the starters. I'd bring back Dylan Wynn too. So our DE depth would be Orchard and Wynn...with Orchard being they hybrid guy we can play at the Jack on 3-4 looks.
Desmond and Cooper would be your starters at the 3 spot. Sheldon, Hughes at the 1 with Meder and Wynn rotating between the two.
Then you have Kruger, Bosa, Monty, Bloodbath as your end/5 looks. That would allow Orchard and Mingo to man the WLB and SLB while contributing on 3rd downs, obvious passing situations and the 5th/6th man on pressures packages.
Desmond and Cooper would be your starters at the 3 spot. Sheldon, Hughes at the 1 with Meder and Wynn rotating between the two.
Then you have Kruger, Bosa, Monty, Bloodbath as your end/5 looks. That would allow Orchard and Mingo to man the WLB and SLB while contributing on 3rd downs, obvious passing situations and the 5th/6th man on pressures packages.
You do realize that Billy Winn has played for the Indianapolis Colts this year (or are you referring to practice squadder Dylan Wynn) and that our draft pick's name is Shelton, right? Do you also understand that when you start using the little 1, 3 and 5 tech stuff in your lexicon that it really means dick? It means dick as much as scheme any more. Got news for you book certificate or box of Cap'n Crunch title holders of football knowledge, schemes are almost all hybrid anymore. Guys line up anywhere on the line, which is why we have seen Des Bryant, an absolute 43 five tech or 34 3 tech when we signed him, line up over the nose a bazillion times since he has been here along with everywhere else.
Bosa would play anywhere they put him and kick ass. Hopefully, he won't jump offsides like a Retard moron that he impersonated last night.
Is a pig's ass pork? -
Desmond and Cooper would be your starters at the 3 spot. Sheldon, Hughes at the 1 with Meder and Wynn rotating between the two.
Then you have Kruger, Bosa, Monty, Bloodbath as your end/5 looks. That would allow Orchard and Mingo to man the WLB and SLB while contributing on 3rd downs, obvious passing situations and the 5th/6th man on pressures packages.
You still want Kruger and Soloman on the team next year? why? I want those guys dropped and the scheme changed. Even if the scheme stays i want those guys out.
You still want Kruger and Soloman on the team next year? why? I want those guys dropped and the scheme changed. Even if the scheme stays i want those guys out.
Are you the kid that was talking about how Bosa was pulling a Clowney and fucking off all year so he didn't get hurt?
You can pretend that Paul Kruger and whoever else turned into suckage on their own and that it has nothing to do with this Pennsylvania high school mafia of coaches all you want, but the facts are Tiamatti or whatever the fuck his name is could coach this team better.
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I'm sorry what now? You do know that the Browns continue to play NFL teams the rest of the way right? It's not like they're getting to the MAC part of the schedule....have yous seen who we play the rest of the season? Bengals again, Seattle, KC...Pgh again. We might be able to beat the 9'ers, that's it. Monday is our last winnable game till Dec 13th.
Every single fucking game is winnable.
Every single fucking game is winnable.
Most of the time I would agree with that statement Mark. It's difficult to apply that this year when a crack pipe and a high school coaching staff is in charge of our team. Man, was I ever wrong about what the 2014 about-face of 7-4 projected once everyone had a year of experience under their belts. Then came the total install and I feel like I've been watching Cheech & Chong's Up in Smoke movie every Sunday to the extent our team ranks 31st at running the ball and 32nd on defense. Who's kidding who with that? When our best case scenario is break don't shatter on defense - 1 year after bend don't break, it's really difficult to find a game face on Sundays.
As much as everyone thinks we need a new QB - QB has been the least of our worries this year. BOTH of the QBs we looked to this year have improved so much from last year in spite of the 31st ranked running game. McCown was recently ranked 1st on third downs; which is the opposite of what he looked like in Tampa when his line left him in countless 3rd and longs with defenses teeing off on him vrs suspect pass protection. On the other hand, defenses haven't stopped teeing off on him. When you're 36 years old, you don't heal like you used to so he's not surviving a few of his starts despite the improvement.
I'm still REALLY disappointed the braintrust drafted a QB in round 1 they never came close to a consensus on PRE-DRAFT. The time to inform us he's not your first round type of guy isn't 2 years after you never protested the pick enough to get your way pre-draft. No guts - no glory. Our path says those 2 first round picks you're pissing all over were a little more important than you clowns treated them as. And now it feels like there's a really disappointing power struggle feud shaking out up top that we won't learn more about until after they've sold all the remaining tickets to home games this year. I don't even think they'd care if there's more Steel Orphans than Browns fans interested in our last PRE-season game as long as they got $.
We put so much time into following this team and we always do a pretty nice job of making new coaches and brasses feel welcome here. What really disappoints me over and over again is when the new collective braintrusts come in and totally neglect our history to the extent they don't take seriously what's on our doorstep in round 1. Divine Intervention even brought the movie Draft Day front an center to Cleveland. If you saw it - it was about researching the character of your first round investment as much or more so than the talent of the guy. 1 message was crystal clear that the situation Cleveland was in was going to require some gonads even to the extent of resisting what the owner wanted at QB. Another irony was there was a LBer named Mack who played at Ohio State - where in real-life the Mack on our door step at #4 was Khalil Mack that played at the University of Buffalo 3 hours away (but in the MAC Conference with many Ohio Schools). It feels like the Oakland Raiders not only watched the movie; but appreciated how much Farmer & Company here looked down their noses at Hollywood figuring out everything they would be incapable of. I was very pleasantly surprised at how well that movie was put together. BUT, we're stuck on pause with a Front Office mindset that doesn't believe in drafting talented WRs in a passing era coming off a year where our WR Corps only caught 8 TD receptions in 16 games (losing all of our final 5 games and going 2-13 since week 11 of last year). Not to worry, we'll just whip 9 million $ on a FA WR that played his best football 3 years ago that our HC has zero intentions of playing. How COOL is that?
We ALL spend a lot of time talking football all year long so we deserve much better than feeling like we have 8 preseason games left fully knowing half the players are frustrated to the extent they can't wait to get out of here. In essence, all this regime has done is perpetuate the same "you don't want to ruin your career in Cleveland." The last thing I wanted to rinse and repeat was fire the dysfunctionals so we could hurry back to the same criteria that hires dysfunctionals. However, reality asks how much progress are we looking at 16 years after 1999? Which Defense would you rather have Bob Slowik's 20 yard cushions or watching Bademosi epitomize what you'd expect to see in a 32nd ranked defense that flat lines just about every week? Not for nothing but do you know who the only Defensive Coordinator that was incapable of making Brandon Weeden self-destruct in 2013? Mike Pettine-hisgroin.
This defense couldn't stop a bunch of bull legged grandmothers. Just 5 days before we played Cincy, Ben Rapen threw 3 INTs but had a defense that kept them in the game all the way til the final seconds. They scored the same 10 points we did with a QB that played worse than our's did but all I read after that game was the QB lost the game for us. At halftime, the UNDEFEATED Coach said "we gotta keep their QB in the pocket" because he knew they weren't stopping him out of the pocket. Unfortunately, our HC said the same thing, we gotta keep him in the pocket. Why? So he can throw short slant passes to a terrified knee high WR that was showing signs of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome after St Louis DBs lit the little feller up? The fact that they don't believe in getting their QBs investments like Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree reminds us any light at the end of the tunnel can only be the headlamp of an oncoming train while we're sentenced to Farmer and our high school coaching staff. We deserve better than this folks.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
All I know is that last week was the first time Johnny actually stood in the pocket and found his receivers.....and coincidentally enough....it was his best game ever...
Props to Marv Lewis for coming up with that idea......(cause lord knows our coaches weren't saying that all along).....
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Ah the Clowney route...
Honestly I have not watched Bosa enough this year to evaluate his effort, but if, as you say, he has been coasting, then I pass on him.
You pass because he's saving himself for the draft? They already won the national championship last year. And his "coasting" still requires double and triple teams. He will not coast once they get to the end of the season and are still unbeaten. Coasting against these D3 teams is understandable when you're not concerned about records but about getting to the pro's. If anything, seeing him letting off the gas peddle and still getting in based almost purely on technique makes me want him here more.
You pass because he's saving himself for the draft? They already won the national championship last year. And his "coasting" still requires double and triple teams. He will not coast once they get to the end of the season and are still unbeaten. Coasting against these D3 teams is understandable when you're not concerned about records but about getting to the pro's. If anything, seeing him letting off the gas peddle and still getting in based almost purely on technique makes me want him here more.
Yes... a willful lack of effort would concern me enough to pass.
Where was his "technique" last nite at the end of the season? Against the run all I saw was a DE choosing a side. Against the pass I saw a DE trying to guess the snap count... excepting the time he moved to RDT and his replacement got the edge and recorded the Buckeyes' lone sack.
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All I know is that last week was the first time Johnny actually stood in the pocket and found his receivers.....and coincidentally enough....it was his best game ever...
Props to Marv Lewis for coming up with that idea......(cause lord knows our coaches weren't saying that all along).....
All I know is that last week was the first time Johnny actually stood in the pocket and found his receivers.....and coincidentally enough....it was his best game ever...
Props to Marv Lewis for coming up with that idea......(cause lord knows our coaches weren't saying that all along).....
His best game was against TN when we won by double digits when every 4th pass was a TD. If all we needed was 8 completions to get off to the lead TN couldn't overcome - I don't care what his stats are in a game we lost keeping him in the pocket throwing to 5'3" targets that fumbled as soon as they got hit. Stats in games your defense forfeits in the first half don't tell you anything so I'm not feeling your point that Pittsburgh was easily his best game. You play to win and the first game Manziel prepared to start at QB the full week of practice rather than playing scout team QB for the NY Jets - he won decisively as much as you and others hate that reality. We've kept McCown in the pocket so much he can't answer the bell. They used to bootleg Hoyer out of the pocket all the time last year but that was okay for some reason it's not for Manziel. The difference is Manziel is projecting way more than just 8 TD passes to the WR position or 12 overall. If a guy throws good out of pocket - why rewire him to stay in the pocket at all times looking for midgets on short slant passes?
Manziel had a very nice completion from the pocket when he had all day to stay in it on 1 play vrs Cincy. That same Cincy defense intercepted Ben Rapen 3 times to the same 10 points we scored. Didn't he also get hurt staying in the pocket to Todd Haley's command? I'm glad Manziel prepared himself. He's also seen the beating McCown has taken in the pocket. Are we really going to express we're now disappointed he's more prepared for the situation this year?
The time to blast him for escaping the pocket against an undefeated opponent wasn't right after a 92 yard drive to put us back in the game. Inexperienced 22 year old QBs sometimes leave the pocket prematurely; but to sit there and say we gotta keep him in the pocket when the opposing coach is saying that - proved which Coach knew our QB's strengths better? I have no proof Pettine wants Manziel to succeed considering how much he wants everybody to know that ain't his guy. When he gets his walking papers - he can say I got a QB shoved down my esophagus I never wanted. Fine, then play ball on defense Mikey and there's no worries who's playing QB so where are we with that? Maybe you should worry more about your defense that's ranked 32nd out of 32 teams more than giving us the sour puss face from never having to gonads to speak up pre-draft about what QB was your kind of guy.
Who has gotten better on the defense from 2014 to 2015? Should have multiple examples. It's Pettine's defense being puppeted through his hometown buddies. The same defensive design that was the only defense incapable of making Brandon Weeden self-destruct in 2013. And his idea of a corner he can win with is Bademosi? Maybe we'll see Danny Shelton covering Forsett when we play the Rats. Each time Mingo bats a pass down or he intercepts a QB - what's the reluctance to play him when offenses are throwing uncontested passes all over the field on us?
Who has gotten better on the offensive line beside Schwartz? How about the RB position? Turbin? West? Crow? Anyone? Nope, we're 31st ranked.
I'll give you names of 2 guys on offense that have gotten a lot better. Travis Benjamin and Gary Barnidge.
Understanding that, take a look at what QB has thrown the most TD passes to Benjamin. It's the guy with the fewest starts. Last game when the commentator announced Manziel's hook up with Benjamin was the longest of the season for Cleveland, I was like how come every time Manziel plays his hook ups with Benjamin are the longest of the season?
As I said, QB hasn't been our problem in 2015 so why are you so disappointed somebody acknowledged that?
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Still is not what Pet said, Flugs...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Desmond and Cooper would be your starters at the 3 spot. Sheldon, Hughes at the 1 with Meder and Wynn rotating between the two.
Then you have Kruger, Bosa, Monty, Bloodbath as your end/5 looks. That would allow Orchard and Mingo to man the WLB and SLB while contributing on 3rd downs, obvious passing situations and the 5th/6th man on pressures packages.
You do realize that Billy Winn has played for the Indianapolis Colts this year (or are you referring to practice squadder Dylan Wynn) and that our draft pick's name is Shelton, right? Do you also understand that when you start using the little 1, 3 and 5 tech stuff in your lexicon that it really means dick? It means dick as much as scheme any more. Got news for you book certificate or box of Cap'n Crunch title holders of football knowledge, schemes are almost all hybrid anymore. Guys line up anywhere on the line, which is why we have seen Des Bryant, an absolute 43 five tech or 34 3 tech when we signed him, line up over the nose a bazillion times since he has been here along with everywhere else.
Bosa would play anywhere they put him and kick ass. Hopefully, he won't jump offsides like a Retard moron that he impersonated last night.
You do realize that Billy Winn has played for the Indianapolis Colts this year (or are you referring to practice squadder Dylan Wynn) and that our draft pick's name is Shelton, right? Do you also understand that when you start using the little 1, 3 and 5 tech stuff in your lexicon that it really means dick? It means dick as much as scheme any more. Got news for you book certificate or box of Cap'n Crunch title holders of football knowledge, schemes are almost all hybrid anymore. Guys line up anywhere on the line, which is why we have seen Des Bryant, an absolute 43 five tech or 34 3 tech when we signed him, line up over the nose a bazillion times since he has been here along with everywhere else.
Bosa would play anywhere they put him and kick ass. Hopefully, he won't jump offsides like a Retard moron that he impersonated last night.
Your points in order.
Yes - I'm well aware Billy Winn is in Indy. I meant Dylan Wynn whom the coaching staff is high on and might be activated. I Like his game myself.
Yes - I'm aware I mispelled Danny's last name. It was late at night, I was crashing back down to the cellar of sobriety. My b.
No, player assignments do not mean 'dick'. I'm giving a shot at your starting base defense and that's about where players would align given certain assignments.
Can those assignments and responsibilities change based on sub packages? Absolutely.
Also, save your stubs off of those Capn' Crunch boxes. Box tops for education, yo. You see Desmond given some 1i looks because of his speed and ability to get past a C/G.
I too believe Joey would be very effective in just about any defense you could put him in.
Are you the kid that was talking about how Bosa was pulling a Clowney and fucking off all year so he didn't get hurt?
You can pretend that Paul Kruger and whoever else turned into suckage on their own and that it has nothing to do with this Pennsylvania high school mafia of coaches all you want, but the facts are Tiamatti or whatever the fuck his name is could coach this team better.
Obviously sarcasm. I won't claim to have the insight and depth of experience that any coach in the NFL has position, coordinator or otherwise. Thanks for the backhanded compliment though? -
Every single fucking game is winnable.
Most of the time I would agree with that statement Mark. It's difficult to apply that this year when a crack pipe and a high school coaching staff is in charge of our team. Man, was I ever wrong about what the 2014 about-face of 7-4 projected once everyone had a year of experience under their belts. Then came the total install and I feel like I've been watching Cheech & Chong's Up in Smoke movie every Sunday to the extent our team ranks 31st at running the ball and 32nd on defense. Who's kidding who with that? When our best case scenario is break don't shatter on defense - 1 year after bend don't break, it's really difficult to find a game face on Sundays.
As much as everyone thinks we need a new QB - QB has been the least of our worries this year. BOTH of the QBs we looked to this year have improved so much from last year in spite of the 31st ranked running game. McCown was recently ranked 1st on third downs; which is the opposite of what he looked like in Tampa when his line left him in countless 3rd and longs with defenses teeing off on him vrs suspect pass protection. On the other hand, defenses haven't stopped teeing off on him. When you're 36 years old, you don't heal like you used to so he's not surviving a few of his starts despite the improvement.
I'm still REALLY disappointed the braintrust drafted a QB in round 1 they never came close to a consensus on PRE-DRAFT. The time to inform us he's not your first round type of guy isn't 2 years after you never protested the pick enough to get your way pre-draft. No guts - no glory. Our path says those 2 first round picks you're pissing all over were a little more important than you clowns treated them as. And now it feels like there's a really disappointing power struggle feud shaking out up top that we won't learn more about until after they've sold all the remaining tickets to home games this year. I don't even think they'd care if there's more Steel Orphans than Browns fans interested in our last PRE-season game as long as they got $.
We put so much time into following this team and we always do a pretty nice job of making new coaches and brasses feel welcome here. What really disappoints me over and over again is when the new collective braintrusts come in and totally neglect our history to the extent they don't take seriously what's on our doorstep in round 1. Divine Intervention even brought the movie Draft Day front an center to Cleveland. If you saw it - it was about researching the character of your first round investment as much or more so than the talent of the guy. 1 message was crystal clear that the situation Cleveland was in was going to require some gonads even to the extent of resisting what the owner wanted at QB. Another irony was there was a LBer named Mack who played at Ohio State - where in real-life the Mack on our door step at #4 was Khalil Mack that played at the University of Buffalo 3 hours away (but in the MAC Conference with many Ohio Schools). It feels like the Oakland Raiders not only watched the movie; but appreciated how much Farmer & Company here looked down their noses at Hollywood figuring out everything they would be incapable of. I was very pleasantly surprised at how well that movie was put together. BUT, we're stuck on pause with a Front Office mindset that doesn't believe in drafting talented WRs in a passing era coming off a year where our WR Corps only caught 8 TD receptions in 16 games (losing all of our final 5 games and going 2-13 since week 11 of last year). Not to worry, we'll just whip 9 million $ on a FA WR that played his best football 3 years ago that our HC has zero intentions of playing. How COOL is that?
We ALL spend a lot of time talking football all year long so we deserve much better than feeling like we have 8 preseason games left fully knowing half the players are frustrated to the extent they can't wait to get out of here. In essence, all this regime has done is perpetuate the same "you don't want to ruin your career in Cleveland." The last thing I wanted to rinse and repeat was fire the dysfunctionals so we could hurry back to the same criteria that hires dysfunctionals. However, reality asks how much progress are we looking at 16 years after 1999? Which Defense would you rather have Bob Slowik's 20 yard cushions or watching Bademosi epitomize what you'd expect to see in a 32nd ranked defense that flat lines just about every week? Not for nothing but do you know who the only Defensive Coordinator that was incapable of making Brandon Weeden self-destruct in 2013? Mike Pettine-hisgroin.
This defense couldn't stop a bunch of bull legged grandmothers. Just 5 days before we played Cincy, Ben Rapen threw 3 INTs but had a defense that kept them in the game all the way til the final seconds. They scored the same 10 points we did with a QB that played worse than our's did but all I read after that game was the QB lost the game for us. At halftime, the UNDEFEATED Coach said "we gotta keep their QB in the pocket" because he knew they weren't stopping him out of the pocket. Unfortunately, our HC said the same thing, we gotta keep him in the pocket. Why? So he can throw short slant passes to a terrified knee high WR that was showing signs of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome after St Louis DBs lit the little feller up? The fact that they don't believe in getting their QBs investments like Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree reminds us any light at the end of the tunnel can only be the headlamp of an oncoming train while we're sentenced to Farmer and our high school coaching staff. We deserve better than this folks.
At halftime, the UNDEFEATED Coach said "we gotta keep their QB in the pocket" because he knew they weren't stopping him out of the pocket. Unfortunately, our HC said the same thing, we gotta keep him in the pocket. Why? So he can throw short slant passes to a terrified knee high WR that was showing signs of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome after St Louis DBs lit the little feller up?
You're really reaching fluges.....so Marv Lewis is now the "undefeated genius", after 10 years of being the fool who couldnt get his team to play up to potential....
But our guy is an idiot after 10 games of not getting his less talented team to play up to potential????
His best game was against TN when we won by double digits when every 4th pass was a TD.
As I said, QB hasn't been our problem in 2015 so why are you so disappointed somebody acknowledged that?
Id dispute that "best game" part....he had 2 nice passes for 110 yards and 2 td's........and only 50 yards the other 59 minutes and 40 seconds.....
And I dont know why you think Im disappointed in you pointing out QB isnt the problem???...makes no sense, but whatever....
Im just surprised you think a QB can compete in the NFL without being able to play from the pocket?.....or that you think a Coach is deficient because he wants "his" QB to do what the other 31 starters in the league are doing......(or what every HOF QB ever has done).....which is "play from the pocket first",,,,,,
Its not rocket science and you all can twist it to mean Pettine was trying to handcuff Manziel, when in truth he was(and has been) just trying to get him to learn and execute the "basics", BEFORE he turns on the afterburners....
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All I know is that last week was the first time Johnny actually stood in the pocket and found his receivers.....and coincidentally enough....it was his best game ever...
Props to Marv Lewis for coming up with that idea......(cause lord knows our coaches weren't saying that all along).....
His best game was against TN when we won by double digits when every 4th pass was a TD. If all we needed was 8 completions to get off to the lead TN couldn't overcome - I don't care what his stats are in a game we lost keeping him in the pocket throwing to 5'3" targets that fumbled as soon as they got hit. Stats in games your defense forfeits in the first half don't tell you anything so I'm not feeling your point that Pittsburgh was easily his best game. You play to win and the first game Manziel prepared to start at QB the full week of practice rather than playing scout team QB for the NY Jets - he won decisively as much as you and others hate that reality. We've kept McCown in the pocket so much he can't answer the bell. They used to bootleg Hoyer out of the pocket all the time last year but that was okay for some reason it's not for Manziel. The difference is Manziel is projecting way more than just 8 TD passes to the WR position or 12 overall. If a guy throws good out of pocket - why rewire him to stay in the pocket at all times looking for midgets on short slant passes?
Manziel had a very nice completion from the pocket when he had all day to stay in it on 1 play vrs Cincy. That same Cincy defense intercepted Ben Rapen 3 times to the same 10 points we scored. Didn't he also get hurt staying in the pocket to Todd Haley's command? I'm glad Manziel prepared himself. He's also seen the beating McCown has taken in the pocket. Are we really going to express we're now disappointed he's more prepared for the situation this year?
The time to blast him for escaping the pocket against an undefeated opponent wasn't right after a 92 yard drive to put us back in the game. Inexperienced 22 year old QBs sometimes leave the pocket prematurely; but to sit there and say we gotta keep him in the pocket when the opposing coach is saying that - proved which Coach knew our QB's strengths better? I have no proof Pettine wants Manziel to succeed considering how much he wants everybody to know that ain't his guy. When he gets his walking papers - he can say I got a QB shoved down my esophagus I never wanted. Fine, then play ball on defense Mikey and there's no worries who's playing QB so where are we with that? Maybe you should worry more about your defense that's ranked 32nd out of 32 teams more than giving us the sour puss face from never having to gonads to speak up pre-draft about what QB was your kind of guy.
Who has gotten better on the defense from 2014 to 2015? Should have multiple examples. It's Pettine's defense being puppeted through his hometown buddies. The same defensive design that was the only defense incapable of making Brandon Weeden self-destruct in 2013. And his idea of a corner he can win with is Bademosi? Maybe we'll see Danny Shelton covering Forsett when we play the Rats. Each time Mingo bats a pass down or he intercepts a QB - what's the reluctance to play him when offenses are throwing uncontested passes all over the field on us?
Who has gotten better on the offensive line beside Schwartz? How about the RB position? Turbin? West? Crow? Anyone? Nope, we're 31st ranked.
I'll give you names of 2 guys on offense that have gotten a lot better. Travis Benjamin and Gary Barnidge.
Understanding that, take a look at what QB has thrown the most TD passes to Benjamin. It's the guy with the fewest starts. Last game when the commentator announced Manziel's hook up with Benjamin was the longest of the season for Cleveland, I was like how come every time Manziel plays his hook ups with Benjamin are the longest of the season?
As I said, QB hasn't been our problem in 2015 so why are you so disappointed somebody acknowledged that?
His best game was against TN when we won by double digits when every 4th pass was a TD. If all we needed was 8 completions to get off to the lead TN couldn't overcome - I don't care what his stats are in a game we lost keeping him in the pocket throwing to 5'3" targets that fumbled as soon as they got hit. Stats in games your defense forfeits in the first half don't tell you anything so I'm not feeling your point that Pittsburgh was easily his best game.
You think Manziel had his best game against TN simply because we won by more points? Then you blame the poor defense for inflating his stats against Pittsburgh? That is insane! You can't pick and choose when the defense has an impact on a game. The defense slaughtered Mariota with 6+ sacks and at least 4 turnovers. That's why the big win happened. Manziel threw only 14 or so times because we were playing not to lose with a big lead. In Pittsburgh Manziel played well despite the poor first play fumble and was making tons of throws both in and outside the pocket. Last week was easily his best game.
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His best game was against TN when we won by double digits when every 4th pass was a TD. If all we needed was 8 completions to get off to the lead TN couldn't overcome - I don't care what his stats are in a game we lost keeping him in the pocket throwing to 5'3" targets that fumbled as soon as they got hit. Stats in games your defense forfeits in the first half don't tell you anything so I'm not feeling your point that Pittsburgh was easily his best game.
You think Manziel had his best game against TN simply because we won by more points? Then you blame the poor defense for inflating his stats against Pittsburgh? That is insane! You can't pick and choose when the defense has an impact on a game. The defense slaughtered Mariota with 6+ sacks and at least 4 turnovers. That's why the big win happened. Manziel threw only 14 or so times because we were playing not to lose with a big lead. In Pittsburgh Manziel played well despite the poor first play fumble and was making tons of throws both in and outside the pocket. Last week was easily his best game.
. Manziel threw only 14 or so times because we were playing not to lose with a big lead. In Pittsburgh Manziel played well despite the poor first play fumble and was making tons of throws both in and outside the pocket. Last week was easily his best game.
I would agree with that as well. He definitely played better against Pittsburgh than in the Tennessee game. I was at that game. He also fumbled twice but got them back. That game was not a thing of beauty from the offense.
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At halftime, the UNDEFEATED Coach said "we gotta keep their QB in the pocket" because he knew they weren't stopping him out of the pocket. Unfortunately, our HC said the same thing, we gotta keep him in the pocket. Why? So he can throw short slant passes to a terrified knee high WR that was showing signs of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome after St Louis DBs lit the little feller up?
You're really reaching fluges.....so Marv Lewis is now the "undefeated genius", after 10 years of being the fool who couldnt get his team to play up to potential....
But our guy is an idiot after 10 games of not getting his less talented team to play up to potential????
His best game was against TN when we won by double digits when every 4th pass was a TD.
As I said, QB hasn't been our problem in 2015 so why are you so disappointed somebody acknowledged that?
Id dispute that "best game" part....he had 2 nice passes for 110 yards and 2 td's........and only 50 yards the other 59 minutes and 40 seconds.....
And I dont know why you think Im disappointed in you pointing out QB isnt the problem???...makes no sense, but whatever....
Im just surprised you think a QB can compete in the NFL without being able to play from the pocket?.....or that you think a Coach is deficient because he wants "his" QB to do what the other 31 starters in the league are doing......(or what every HOF QB ever has done).....which is "play from the pocket first",,,,,,
Its not rocket science and you all can twist it to mean Pettine was trying to handcuff Manziel, when in truth he was(and has been) just trying to get him to learn and execute the "basics", BEFORE he turns on the afterburners....
Its not rocket science and you all can twist it to mean Pettine was trying to handcuff Manziel, when in truth he was(and has been) just trying to get him to learn and execute the "basics", BEFORE he turns on the afterburners....
Actually I have agreed with that for some time. I did understand that Manziel winning in only the way he (and maybe Wilson) can was difficult for Pettine to handle. It's not that he did not want to see him win that way, but that he wants that unique ability incorporated into a much larger scheme that makes both far more effective. Ironically it made him to appear happier with Manziel after the loss than it did the win, but that is just the coach looking at the long run. I get it.
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Its not rocket science and you all can twist it to mean Pettine was trying to handcuff Manziel, when in truth he was(and has been) just trying to get him to learn and execute the "basics", BEFORE he turns on the afterburners....
Actually I have agreed with that for some time. I did understand that Manziel winning in only the way he (and maybe Wilson) can was difficult for Pettine to handle. It's not that he did not want to see him win that way, but that he wants that unique ability incorporated into a much larger scheme that makes both far more effective. Ironically it made him to appear happier with Manziel after the loss than it did the win, but that is just the coach looking at the long run. I get it.
But so far those schemes have not existed in the Browns game plan. So if that's what he wants to do they will be changing the offensive plan again, which will be a little bit tough for everyone.Actually I have agreed with that for some time. I did understand that Manziel winning in only the way he (and maybe Wilson) can was difficult for Pettine to handle. It's not that he did not want to see him win that way, but that he wants that unique ability incorporated into a much larger scheme that makes both far more effective. Ironically it made him to appear happier with Manziel after the loss than it did the win, but that is just the coach looking at the long run. I get it.
WSS
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At halftime, the UNDEFEATED Coach said "we gotta keep their QB in the pocket" because he knew they weren't stopping him out of the pocket. Unfortunately, our HC said the same thing, we gotta keep him in the pocket. Why? So he can throw short slant passes to a terrified knee high WR that was showing signs of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome after St Louis DBs lit the little feller up?
You're really reaching fluges.....so Marv Lewis is now the "undefeated genius", after 10 years of being the fool who couldnt get his team to play up to potential....
But our guy is an idiot after 10 games of not getting his less talented team to play up to potential????
His best game was against TN when we won by double digits when every 4th pass was a TD.
As I said, QB hasn't been our problem in 2015 so why are you so disappointed somebody acknowledged that?
Id dispute that "best game" part....he had 2 nice passes for 110 yards and 2 td's........and only 50 yards the other 59 minutes and 40 seconds.....
And I dont know why you think Im disappointed in you pointing out QB isnt the problem???...makes no sense, but whatever....
Im just surprised you think a QB can compete in the NFL without being able to play from the pocket?.....or that you think a Coach is deficient because he wants "his" QB to do what the other 31 starters in the league are doing......(or what every HOF QB ever has done).....which is "play from the pocket first",,,,,,
Its not rocket science and you all can twist it to mean Pettine was trying to handcuff Manziel, when in truth he was(and has been) just trying to get him to learn and execute the "basics", BEFORE he turns on the afterburners....
You're really reaching fluges.....so Marv Lewis is now the "undefeated genius", after 10 years of being the fool who couldnt get his team to play up to potential....
But our guy is an idiot after 10 games of not getting his less talented team to play up to potential????
Id dispute that "best game" part....he had 2 nice passes for 110 yards and 2 td's........and only 50 yards the other 59 minutes and 40 seconds.....
And I dont know why you think Im disappointed in you pointing out QB isnt the problem???...makes no sense, but whatever....
Im just surprised you think a QB can compete in the NFL without being able to play from the pocket?.....or that you think a Coach is deficient because he wants "his" QB to do what the other 31 starters in the league are doing......(or what every HOF QB ever has done).....which is "play from the pocket first",,,,,,
Its not rocket science and you all can twist it to mean Pettine was trying to handcuff Manziel, when in truth he was(and has been) just trying to get him to learn and execute the "basics", BEFORE he turns on the afterburners....
Undefeated football is undefeated football so I can see why genius quickly came to your mind at least this year. Didn't Carson Palmer lead them to 13-3 when Pittsburgh took a knee and kept it about 7 years ago? I'm not reaching on what Ohio team keeps making the playoffs with the AFC North Crown and what one keeps rooting for moral victories or QB stats that don't matter in junktime blowouts. Which Head Coach do you suppose stands a better chance of losing his locker room today - the one selling high school football schemes and "I don't believe in starting rookies" while he's sentenced the offense and defense to rookie coordinators? I'm sure that double standard had zero to do with Travis Benjamin saying he'd "like to stay if we have the right coaching staff." That didn't come from me and I feel like he was the spokesman for more than just himself. Losing the team is losing the team.
Tell me which guys on our defense currently look like they're buying into Mike Pettine's defense while they're ranking 32nd? Seriously, give me names of guys showing progress over regression.
Tell me how often in 2 years that first contact = tackled.
If you want the QB you invested in to look polished - take a look at how long it has taken Blake Bortles to look somewhat decent as a #3 overall pick. Inexperience breeds QBs feeling compelled to leave the pocket prematurely. I've never once said I'd hate to see Manziel throw out of the pocket. I've said I'd hate to see him permanently sentenced to the pocket. There's a difference like Joe Gibbs understood it with his 5'11"/6' QB Joe Theisman that in order for the out of pocket bootlegs/waggle passes to work - there has to be success in the running game to sell playaction - which ain't happening with a 31st ranked running game in Cleveland. And the QB must also show some ability to complete passes from the pocket, which was actually the best throw Manziel made vrs Cincy fitting the ball in a tight window when he had all day to throw on 1 play.
Where I disagree with people that just want to win an "I told you Manziel was what I predicted he'd be" is no QBs 4-6 starts old are where they're gonna be when they have enough experience and the game has slowed down for them. You don't draft a QB in round 1 you don't believe in unless you don't belong working in the NFL. I didn't draft Manziel in round 1 - I just think it's absurd to over-celebrate a 1-6 record with a 36 year old QB that's so beat up he can't survive starts or answer the bell staying in such a wonderful pocket that our HC is all upset he now has to start the 1st round QB showing progress on and off the field. Why bring him here?
Back to progress and evaluating our staff you feel I'm getting so wrong here - what kind of progress is ranking 31st at running the football reflecting for the offensive line? How about this Terrence West that we just had to draft? How's he looking getting all coached up? How about the Crown that was averaging 5.4 yards per carry halfway through last year?
Did Carr play better when Flip was in charge of him in Oakland or this year? Part of that is experience, part is additions of Cooper and Crabtree and part could be better coaching overall there. You think any of that is possible if he had a GM/HC that is too cool to consider decent WR help? We didn't have any trouble beating them last year.
Bortles didn't start looking like he might be a keeper until he was at least 20 starts old at 24 years of age. Even this Thursday, he threw an INT with about 3 minutes or so remaining. Lucky for him, his defense stopped TN.When TN punted - they returned it about 65 yards right back to the red zone for a 2nd chance and he delivered the game winning points against the same 2 win team we beat. Jax wasn't starting their first round pick 1 week and then benching him again 1 week later because Chad Henne could post better stats in his 30s.
So, what have we learned? Growing pains from inexperienced rookie QBs in Oakland and Jax in 2014 led to Jax earning the right to draft 3rd overall in 2015 and Oakland drafting 4th overall. That's what we should be comparing a 22 year old QB with less than 6 starts to.
I've seen teams make shorter QBs like Joe Theisman and Drew Brees work even though those weren't immediate success stories. After Brees' 3rd year SD had the worst record in the NFL so they drafted a QB first in the next draft. Theisman began his career in the CFL and cracked into the NFL as a punt returner in Washington first. In either case, the wrong Head Coach - might not have ever let either succeed. And wasn't the CFL's Warren Moon only 6' tall as well before his HOF career? Fran Tarkenton. I could go on and on. The Head Coaches that got to celebrate these guys did so without trying to re-wire what their strengths are. Every one of them threw out of the pocket and some had plays designed where they bootlegged out of pocket while others had coaches that said if you feel compelled to escape the pocket and improvise - let er rip. Ever since Ben Rapen has been handcuffed to the pocket - his stats look prettier but he's getting beat up more than ever (which I love). That said, they're not winning playoff games from it when they used to win Superbowls letting him escape the pocket and improvise. Even Jeff Garcia can make Pro Bowls and playoffs when he plays for the right coaches (in SF, TB and Philly) where in Cleveland and Detroit he blended in with stink and got killed.
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His best game was against TN when we won by double digits when every 4th pass was a TD. If all we needed was 8 completions to get off to the lead TN couldn't overcome - I don't care what his stats are in a game we lost keeping him in the pocket throwing to 5'3" targets that fumbled as soon as they got hit. Stats in games your defense forfeits in the first half don't tell you anything so I'm not feeling your point that Pittsburgh was easily his best game.
You think Manziel had his best game against TN simply because we won by more points? Then you blame the poor defense for inflating his stats against Pittsburgh? That is insane! You can't pick and choose when the defense has an impact on a game. The defense slaughtered Mariota with 6+ sacks and at least 4 turnovers. That's why the big win happened. Manziel threw only 14 or so times because we were playing not to lose with a big lead. In Pittsburgh Manziel played well despite the poor first play fumble and was making tons of throws both in and outside the pocket. Last week was easily his best game.
You think Manziel had his best game against TN simply because we won by more points? Then you blame the poor defense for inflating his stats against Pittsburgh? That is insane! You can't pick and choose when the defense has an impact on a game. The defense slaughtered Mariota with 6+ sacks and at least 4 turnovers. That's why the big win happened. Manziel threw only 14 or so times because we were playing not to lose with a big lead. In Pittsburgh Manziel played well despite the poor first play fumble and was making tons of throws both in and outside the pocket. Last week was easily his best game.
No, I think Manziel getting us off to a big lead lit a spark. That said, don't let me stop you from picketing Roger Goodell's office that you want a forfeit because the QB stats weren't pretty enough to appreciate from a QB 3-4 starts old. Let me know how you make out with that.
That was the only victory you're gonna see by double digits here in 2015 but you'd rather lose seeing a QB throw for a lot of yardage in games we're not going to win. Makes perfect sense.
If we go by your logic, since Manziel is projecting more TD passes to the WR position than Hoyer's 8 from 2014 or 12 overall - maybe Roger Goodell will give us more than 7 wins? That Victorious Secret makes even more sense.
Unfortunately, our running game hasn't discriminated which QB it is willing to rank 31st at running the ball for while our defense continues to hold a firm grip on its 32nd ranking. Your answer is it's all Manziel's fault? You're lucky I'm feeling generous today - how much does this quick sand cost?
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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