Anyone getting warmer on Bosa after last night?
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At halftime, the UNDEFEATED Coach said "we gotta keep their QB in the pocket" because he knew they weren't stopping him out of the pocket. Unfortunately, our HC said the same thing, we gotta keep him in the pocket. Why? So he can throw short slant passes to a terrified knee high WR that was showing signs of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome after St Louis DBs lit the little feller up?
You're really reaching fluges.....so Marv Lewis is now the "undefeated genius", after 10 years of being the fool who couldnt get his team to play up to potential....
But our guy is an idiot after 10 games of not getting his less talented team to play up to potential????
His best game was against TN when we won by double digits when every 4th pass was a TD.
As I said, QB hasn't been our problem in 2015 so why are you so disappointed somebody acknowledged that?
Id dispute that "best game" part....he had 2 nice passes for 110 yards and 2 td's........and only 50 yards the other 59 minutes and 40 seconds.....
And I dont know why you think Im disappointed in you pointing out QB isnt the problem???...makes no sense, but whatever....
Im just surprised you think a QB can compete in the NFL without being able to play from the pocket?.....or that you think a Coach is deficient because he wants "his" QB to do what the other 31 starters in the league are doing......(or what every HOF QB ever has done).....which is "play from the pocket first",,,,,,
Its not rocket science and you all can twist it to mean Pettine was trying to handcuff Manziel, when in truth he was(and has been) just trying to get him to learn and execute the "basics", BEFORE he turns on the afterburners....
Its not rocket science and you all can twist it to mean Pettine was trying to handcuff Manziel, when in truth he was(and has been) just trying to get him to learn and execute the "basics", BEFORE he turns on the afterburners....
Actually I have agreed with that for some time. I did understand that Manziel winning in only the way he (and maybe Wilson) can was difficult for Pettine to handle. It's not that he did not want to see him win that way, but that he wants that unique ability incorporated into a much larger scheme that makes both far more effective. Ironically it made him to appear happier with Manziel after the loss than it did the win, but that is just the coach looking at the long run. I get it.
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Its not rocket science and you all can twist it to mean Pettine was trying to handcuff Manziel, when in truth he was(and has been) just trying to get him to learn and execute the "basics", BEFORE he turns on the afterburners....
Actually I have agreed with that for some time. I did understand that Manziel winning in only the way he (and maybe Wilson) can was difficult for Pettine to handle. It's not that he did not want to see him win that way, but that he wants that unique ability incorporated into a much larger scheme that makes both far more effective. Ironically it made him to appear happier with Manziel after the loss than it did the win, but that is just the coach looking at the long run. I get it.
But so far those schemes have not existed in the Browns game plan. So if that's what he wants to do they will be changing the offensive plan again, which will be a little bit tough for everyone.Actually I have agreed with that for some time. I did understand that Manziel winning in only the way he (and maybe Wilson) can was difficult for Pettine to handle. It's not that he did not want to see him win that way, but that he wants that unique ability incorporated into a much larger scheme that makes both far more effective. Ironically it made him to appear happier with Manziel after the loss than it did the win, but that is just the coach looking at the long run. I get it.
WSS
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At halftime, the UNDEFEATED Coach said "we gotta keep their QB in the pocket" because he knew they weren't stopping him out of the pocket. Unfortunately, our HC said the same thing, we gotta keep him in the pocket. Why? So he can throw short slant passes to a terrified knee high WR that was showing signs of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome after St Louis DBs lit the little feller up?
You're really reaching fluges.....so Marv Lewis is now the "undefeated genius", after 10 years of being the fool who couldnt get his team to play up to potential....
But our guy is an idiot after 10 games of not getting his less talented team to play up to potential????
His best game was against TN when we won by double digits when every 4th pass was a TD.
As I said, QB hasn't been our problem in 2015 so why are you so disappointed somebody acknowledged that?
Id dispute that "best game" part....he had 2 nice passes for 110 yards and 2 td's........and only 50 yards the other 59 minutes and 40 seconds.....
And I dont know why you think Im disappointed in you pointing out QB isnt the problem???...makes no sense, but whatever....
Im just surprised you think a QB can compete in the NFL without being able to play from the pocket?.....or that you think a Coach is deficient because he wants "his" QB to do what the other 31 starters in the league are doing......(or what every HOF QB ever has done).....which is "play from the pocket first",,,,,,
Its not rocket science and you all can twist it to mean Pettine was trying to handcuff Manziel, when in truth he was(and has been) just trying to get him to learn and execute the "basics", BEFORE he turns on the afterburners....
You're really reaching fluges.....so Marv Lewis is now the "undefeated genius", after 10 years of being the fool who couldnt get his team to play up to potential....
But our guy is an idiot after 10 games of not getting his less talented team to play up to potential????
Id dispute that "best game" part....he had 2 nice passes for 110 yards and 2 td's........and only 50 yards the other 59 minutes and 40 seconds.....
And I dont know why you think Im disappointed in you pointing out QB isnt the problem???...makes no sense, but whatever....
Im just surprised you think a QB can compete in the NFL without being able to play from the pocket?.....or that you think a Coach is deficient because he wants "his" QB to do what the other 31 starters in the league are doing......(or what every HOF QB ever has done).....which is "play from the pocket first",,,,,,
Its not rocket science and you all can twist it to mean Pettine was trying to handcuff Manziel, when in truth he was(and has been) just trying to get him to learn and execute the "basics", BEFORE he turns on the afterburners....
Undefeated football is undefeated football so I can see why genius quickly came to your mind at least this year. Didn't Carson Palmer lead them to 13-3 when Pittsburgh took a knee and kept it about 7 years ago? I'm not reaching on what Ohio team keeps making the playoffs with the AFC North Crown and what one keeps rooting for moral victories or QB stats that don't matter in junktime blowouts. Which Head Coach do you suppose stands a better chance of losing his locker room today - the one selling high school football schemes and "I don't believe in starting rookies" while he's sentenced the offense and defense to rookie coordinators? I'm sure that double standard had zero to do with Travis Benjamin saying he'd "like to stay if we have the right coaching staff." That didn't come from me and I feel like he was the spokesman for more than just himself. Losing the team is losing the team.
Tell me which guys on our defense currently look like they're buying into Mike Pettine's defense while they're ranking 32nd? Seriously, give me names of guys showing progress over regression.
Tell me how often in 2 years that first contact = tackled.
If you want the QB you invested in to look polished - take a look at how long it has taken Blake Bortles to look somewhat decent as a #3 overall pick. Inexperience breeds QBs feeling compelled to leave the pocket prematurely. I've never once said I'd hate to see Manziel throw out of the pocket. I've said I'd hate to see him permanently sentenced to the pocket. There's a difference like Joe Gibbs understood it with his 5'11"/6' QB Joe Theisman that in order for the out of pocket bootlegs/waggle passes to work - there has to be success in the running game to sell playaction - which ain't happening with a 31st ranked running game in Cleveland. And the QB must also show some ability to complete passes from the pocket, which was actually the best throw Manziel made vrs Cincy fitting the ball in a tight window when he had all day to throw on 1 play.
Where I disagree with people that just want to win an "I told you Manziel was what I predicted he'd be" is no QBs 4-6 starts old are where they're gonna be when they have enough experience and the game has slowed down for them. You don't draft a QB in round 1 you don't believe in unless you don't belong working in the NFL. I didn't draft Manziel in round 1 - I just think it's absurd to over-celebrate a 1-6 record with a 36 year old QB that's so beat up he can't survive starts or answer the bell staying in such a wonderful pocket that our HC is all upset he now has to start the 1st round QB showing progress on and off the field. Why bring him here?
Back to progress and evaluating our staff you feel I'm getting so wrong here - what kind of progress is ranking 31st at running the football reflecting for the offensive line? How about this Terrence West that we just had to draft? How's he looking getting all coached up? How about the Crown that was averaging 5.4 yards per carry halfway through last year?
Did Carr play better when Flip was in charge of him in Oakland or this year? Part of that is experience, part is additions of Cooper and Crabtree and part could be better coaching overall there. You think any of that is possible if he had a GM/HC that is too cool to consider decent WR help? We didn't have any trouble beating them last year.
Bortles didn't start looking like he might be a keeper until he was at least 20 starts old at 24 years of age. Even this Thursday, he threw an INT with about 3 minutes or so remaining. Lucky for him, his defense stopped TN.When TN punted - they returned it about 65 yards right back to the red zone for a 2nd chance and he delivered the game winning points against the same 2 win team we beat. Jax wasn't starting their first round pick 1 week and then benching him again 1 week later because Chad Henne could post better stats in his 30s.
So, what have we learned? Growing pains from inexperienced rookie QBs in Oakland and Jax in 2014 led to Jax earning the right to draft 3rd overall in 2015 and Oakland drafting 4th overall. That's what we should be comparing a 22 year old QB with less than 6 starts to.
I've seen teams make shorter QBs like Joe Theisman and Drew Brees work even though those weren't immediate success stories. After Brees' 3rd year SD had the worst record in the NFL so they drafted a QB first in the next draft. Theisman began his career in the CFL and cracked into the NFL as a punt returner in Washington first. In either case, the wrong Head Coach - might not have ever let either succeed. And wasn't the CFL's Warren Moon only 6' tall as well before his HOF career? Fran Tarkenton. I could go on and on. The Head Coaches that got to celebrate these guys did so without trying to re-wire what their strengths are. Every one of them threw out of the pocket and some had plays designed where they bootlegged out of pocket while others had coaches that said if you feel compelled to escape the pocket and improvise - let er rip. Ever since Ben Rapen has been handcuffed to the pocket - his stats look prettier but he's getting beat up more than ever (which I love). That said, they're not winning playoff games from it when they used to win Superbowls letting him escape the pocket and improvise. Even Jeff Garcia can make Pro Bowls and playoffs when he plays for the right coaches (in SF, TB and Philly) where in Cleveland and Detroit he blended in with stink and got killed.
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His best game was against TN when we won by double digits when every 4th pass was a TD. If all we needed was 8 completions to get off to the lead TN couldn't overcome - I don't care what his stats are in a game we lost keeping him in the pocket throwing to 5'3" targets that fumbled as soon as they got hit. Stats in games your defense forfeits in the first half don't tell you anything so I'm not feeling your point that Pittsburgh was easily his best game.
You think Manziel had his best game against TN simply because we won by more points? Then you blame the poor defense for inflating his stats against Pittsburgh? That is insane! You can't pick and choose when the defense has an impact on a game. The defense slaughtered Mariota with 6+ sacks and at least 4 turnovers. That's why the big win happened. Manziel threw only 14 or so times because we were playing not to lose with a big lead. In Pittsburgh Manziel played well despite the poor first play fumble and was making tons of throws both in and outside the pocket. Last week was easily his best game.
You think Manziel had his best game against TN simply because we won by more points? Then you blame the poor defense for inflating his stats against Pittsburgh? That is insane! You can't pick and choose when the defense has an impact on a game. The defense slaughtered Mariota with 6+ sacks and at least 4 turnovers. That's why the big win happened. Manziel threw only 14 or so times because we were playing not to lose with a big lead. In Pittsburgh Manziel played well despite the poor first play fumble and was making tons of throws both in and outside the pocket. Last week was easily his best game.
No, I think Manziel getting us off to a big lead lit a spark. That said, don't let me stop you from picketing Roger Goodell's office that you want a forfeit because the QB stats weren't pretty enough to appreciate from a QB 3-4 starts old. Let me know how you make out with that.
That was the only victory you're gonna see by double digits here in 2015 but you'd rather lose seeing a QB throw for a lot of yardage in games we're not going to win. Makes perfect sense.
If we go by your logic, since Manziel is projecting more TD passes to the WR position than Hoyer's 8 from 2014 or 12 overall - maybe Roger Goodell will give us more than 7 wins? That Victorious Secret makes even more sense.
Unfortunately, our running game hasn't discriminated which QB it is willing to rank 31st at running the ball for while our defense continues to hold a firm grip on its 32nd ranking. Your answer is it's all Manziel's fault? You're lucky I'm feeling generous today - how much does this quick sand cost?
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ugg.
defeatism and pessimism at it's best.
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I would say Manziel's best game was definitely against Pittsburgh, and it wasn't even close. Some of his throws, like the 3rd and long to Hartline from the pocket, were amazing. But something that has been lacking from our offense has been the deep ball. I'm not sure if our opponents are doing a good job of taking that away, or we're just not able to execute it, but we haven't hit a deep pass touchdown in quite some time. That 61 yarder to Benji during the Steelers game was beautiful, and an excellent example of what Manziel can do when he's flushed, but again...it resulted in 3 points. We simply don't have that guy on the team that can break that last tackle to score the TD. The Titans game was also in a completely different scenario, as we had the lead for basically the entire game. We didn't have to pass much, and we played it safe. That's a stark contrast to what occurred in the Steelers game, where we were forced to go for touchdowns on fourth down because we were down so much, so early. Imagine what the Steelers game looks like if our defense holds them to around 20 points. Instead of going for touchdowns on 4th, we kick fg's, and maybe have a chance to tie it up at the end. Red zone scoring is one of the most difficult aspects of the game to conquer for young qb's. Until yesterday, Jameis Winston was miserable at punching the ball in consistently, and it cost them several games. Of course, he has Mike Evans and Vincent Jackson, and we don't have anything that resembles those two at WR. But Johnny is showing progress...how pretty was that ball to Barnidge? Not to mention Benji dropped the easiest TD or his life, the refs screwed Johnny on that incredible scramble, and both Barnidge and Hartline dropped heavily contested TD passes. Even though they were dropped, it still showed that Johnny can make difficult passes in the red zone that could've resulted in points. We just need more talented weapons that can consistently bring those type of balls in...damn you Josh Gordon.
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Every single fucking game is winnable.
Most of the time I would agree with that statement Mark. It's difficult to apply that this year when a crack pipe and a high school coaching staff is in charge of our team. Man, was I ever wrong about what the 2014 about-face of 7-4 projected once everyone had a year of experience under their belts. Then came the total install and I feel like I've been watching Cheech & Chong's Up in Smoke movie every Sunday to the extent our team ranks 31st at running the ball and 32nd on defense. Who's kidding who with that? When our best case scenario is break don't shatter on defense - 1 year after bend don't break, it's really difficult to find a game face on Sundays.
As much as everyone thinks we need a new QB - QB has been the least of our worries this year. BOTH of the QBs we looked to this year have improved so much from last year in spite of the 31st ranked running game. McCown was recently ranked 1st on third downs; which is the opposite of what he looked like in Tampa when his line left him in countless 3rd and longs with defenses teeing off on him vrs suspect pass protection. On the other hand, defenses haven't stopped teeing off on him. When you're 36 years old, you don't heal like you used to so he's not surviving a few of his starts despite the improvement.
I'm still REALLY disappointed the braintrust drafted a QB in round 1 they never came close to a consensus on PRE-DRAFT. The time to inform us he's not your first round type of guy isn't 2 years after you never protested the pick enough to get your way pre-draft. No guts - no glory. Our path says those 2 first round picks you're pissing all over were a little more important than you clowns treated them as. And now it feels like there's a really disappointing power struggle feud shaking out up top that we won't learn more about until after they've sold all the remaining tickets to home games this year. I don't even think they'd care if there's more Steel Orphans than Browns fans interested in our last PRE-season game as long as they got $.
We put so much time into following this team and we always do a pretty nice job of making new coaches and brasses feel welcome here. What really disappoints me over and over again is when the new collective braintrusts come in and totally neglect our history to the extent they don't take seriously what's on our doorstep in round 1. Divine Intervention even brought the movie Draft Day front an center to Cleveland. If you saw it - it was about researching the character of your first round investment as much or more so than the talent of the guy. 1 message was crystal clear that the situation Cleveland was in was going to require some gonads even to the extent of resisting what the owner wanted at QB. Another irony was there was a LBer named Mack who played at Ohio State - where in real-life the Mack on our door step at #4 was Khalil Mack that played at the University of Buffalo 3 hours away (but in the MAC Conference with many Ohio Schools). It feels like the Oakland Raiders not only watched the movie; but appreciated how much Farmer & Company here looked down their noses at Hollywood figuring out everything they would be incapable of. I was very pleasantly surprised at how well that movie was put together. BUT, we're stuck on pause with a Front Office mindset that doesn't believe in drafting talented WRs in a passing era coming off a year where our WR Corps only caught 8 TD receptions in 16 games (losing all of our final 5 games and going 2-13 since week 11 of last year). Not to worry, we'll just whip 9 million $ on a FA WR that played his best football 3 years ago that our HC has zero intentions of playing. How COOL is that?
We ALL spend a lot of time talking football all year long so we deserve much better than feeling like we have 8 preseason games left fully knowing half the players are frustrated to the extent they can't wait to get out of here. In essence, all this regime has done is perpetuate the same "you don't want to ruin your career in Cleveland." The last thing I wanted to rinse and repeat was fire the dysfunctionals so we could hurry back to the same criteria that hires dysfunctionals. However, reality asks how much progress are we looking at 16 years after 1999? Which Defense would you rather have Bob Slowik's 20 yard cushions or watching Bademosi epitomize what you'd expect to see in a 32nd ranked defense that flat lines just about every week? Not for nothing but do you know who the only Defensive Coordinator that was incapable of making Brandon Weeden self-destruct in 2013? Mike Pettine-hisgroin.
This defense couldn't stop a bunch of bull legged grandmothers. Just 5 days before we played Cincy, Ben Rapen threw 3 INTs but had a defense that kept them in the game all the way til the final seconds. They scored the same 10 points we did with a QB that played worse than our's did but all I read after that game was the QB lost the game for us. At halftime, the UNDEFEATED Coach said "we gotta keep their QB in the pocket" because he knew they weren't stopping him out of the pocket. Unfortunately, our HC said the same thing, we gotta keep him in the pocket. Why? So he can throw short slant passes to a terrified knee high WR that was showing signs of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome after St Louis DBs lit the little feller up? The fact that they don't believe in getting their QBs investments like Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree reminds us any light at the end of the tunnel can only be the headlamp of an oncoming train while we're sentenced to Farmer and our high school coaching staff. We deserve better than this folks.
BUT, we're stuck on pause with a Front Office mindset that doesn't believe in drafting talented WRs in a passing era coming off a year where our WR Corps only caught 8 TD receptions in 16 games (losing all of our final 5 games and going 2-13 since week 11 of last year). Not to worry, we'll just whip 9 million $ on a FA WR that played his best football 3 years ago that our HC has zero intentions of playing.
The fact that they don't believe in getting their QBs investments like Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree reminds us any light at the end of the tunnel can only be the headlamp of an oncoming train while we're sentenced to Farmer and our high school coaching staff. We deserve better than this folks.
I keep hearing about Cooper and Crabtree and how our front office doesn't care enough about our QB's to get them the great weapons that Oakland got Carr.....
But, if you look at the #'s, our guys are doing just as well(better actually).....Benji has better stats than Cooper and Barnidge has better stats than Crabtree.......so, Id say our guys have equal weapons to Carr.....considering our "weapons" are putting up the same/better numbers with so much less around them...
We signed Hartline and Bowe....and Yeah.....Bowe is a bust.....we all get that.....BUT, Crabtree was NOT a hot item and most thought he was done(like Bowe), which is why he was basically the last WR signed....just turns out he's been revitalized this season....(luck? or smarts?....who knows).....
But lets stop with the "our guys have no weapons schtick"....when we have 2 of the top preforming pass catchers in the league.....
Benji has the same # of catches, the same TD's and more yards than Cooper(and less than 1/2 the drops).....
Barnidge has the same catches & yards as Crabtree and 2.5 times the TD's......
And Oakland has no TE.....so......its' really getting old hearing how much better these guys are doing than our guys, when they really arent.....
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BUT, we're stuck on pause with a Front Office mindset that doesn't believe in drafting talented WRs in a passing era coming off a year where our WR Corps only caught 8 TD receptions in 16 games (losing all of our final 5 games and going 2-13 since week 11 of last year). Not to worry, we'll just whip 9 million $ on a FA WR that played his best football 3 years ago that our HC has zero intentions of playing.
The fact that they don't believe in getting their QBs investments like Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree reminds us any light at the end of the tunnel can only be the headlamp of an oncoming train while we're sentenced to Farmer and our high school coaching staff. We deserve better than this folks.
I keep hearing about Cooper and Crabtree and how our front office doesn't care enough about our QB's to get them the great weapons that Oakland got Carr.....
But, if you look at the #'s, our guys are doing just as well(better actually).....Benji has better stats than Cooper and Barnidge has better stats than Crabtree.......so, Id say our guys have equal weapons to Carr.....considering our "weapons" are putting up the same/better numbers with so much less around them...
We signed Hartline and Bowe....and Yeah.....Bowe is a bust.....we all get that.....BUT, Crabtree was NOT a hot item and most thought he was done(like Bowe), which is why he was basically the last WR signed....just turns out he's been revitalized this season....(luck? or smarts?....who knows).....
But lets stop with the "our guys have no weapons schtick"....when we have 2 of the top preforming pass catchers in the league.....
Benji has the same # of catches, the same TD's and more yards than Cooper(and less than 1/2 the drops).....
Barnidge has the same catches & yards as Crabtree and 2.5 times the TD's......
And Oakland has no TE.....so......its' really getting old hearing how much better these guys are doing than our guys, when they really arent.....
I keep hearing about Cooper and Crabtree and how our front office doesn't care enough about our QB's to get them the great weapons that Oakland got Carr.....
But, if you look at the #'s, our guys are doing just as well(better actually).....Benji has better stats than Cooper and Barnidge has better stats than Crabtree.......so, Id say our guys have equal weapons to Carr.....considering our "weapons" are putting up the same/better numbers with so much less around them...
We signed Hartline and Bowe....and Yeah.....Bowe is a bust.....we all get that.....BUT, Crabtree was NOT a hot item and most thought he was done(like Bowe), which is why he was basically the last WR signed....just turns out he's been revitalized this season....(luck? or smarts?....who knows).....
But lets stop with the "our guys have no weapons schtick"....when we have 2 of the top preforming pass catchers in the league.....
Benji has the same # of catches, the same TD's and more yards than Cooper(and less than 1/2 the drops).....
Barnidge has the same catches & yards as Crabtree and 2.5 times the TD's......
And Oakland has no TE.....so......its' really getting old hearing how much better these guys are doing than our guys, when they really arent.....
Interesting.....so, you are saying that our problems are almost universallly on the defense and in our run game?
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Point taken...
Looking at the passing stat lines for OAK and us (it's easy as the rank just above us in Yards) only two significant differences pop.
OAK has half again more TD passes and we have almost 3 times as many sacks.
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I keep hearing about Cooper and Crabtree and how our front office doesn't care enough about our QB's to get them the great weapons that Oakland got Carr.....
But, if you look at the #'s, our guys are doing just as well(better actually).....Benji has better stats than Cooper and Barnidge has better stats than Crabtree.......so, Id say our guys have equal weapons to Carr.....considering our "weapons" are putting up the same/better numbers with so much less around them...
We signed Hartline and Bowe....and Yeah.....Bowe is a bust.....we all get that.....BUT, Crabtree was NOT a hot item and most thought he was done(like Bowe), which is why he was basically the last WR signed....just turns out he's been revitalized this season....(luck? or smarts?....who knows).....
But lets stop with the "our guys have no weapons schtick"....when we have 2 of the top preforming pass catchers in the league.....
Benji has the same # of catches, the same TD's and more yards than Cooper(and less than 1/2 the drops).....
Barnidge has the same catches & yards as Crabtree and 2.5 times the TD's......
And Oakland has no TE.....so......its' really getting old hearing how much better these guys are doing than our guys, when they really arent.....
Interesting.....so, you are saying that our problems are almost universallly on the defense and in our run game?
Interesting.....so, you are saying that our problems are almost universallly on the defense and in our run game?
Im really only saying our WR's aren't as bad as everyone claims......and Oakland is "constantly" thrown in our faces as THE team that took care of their QB because they picked Cooper and signed Crabtree......
and, my point, is our GM made similar attempts to sign FA Wr's in Hartline AND Bowe...but they just haven't performed as well as Crabtree......and, as always, hindsight is everyones best friend....cause Crabtree was NOT a desirable FA back when the signings were happening......
Cooper....51 catches(63%) for 736 yards....4 TDs and 10 drops...
Benji........48 catches(63%) for 736 yards....4 TDs and 2 drops....
(note: same catch %, same yards, same TDs....except our guy has WAY fewer drops and better YPC)
Crabtree..57 catches(61%) for 696 yards....5 TDs and 3 drops...
Barnidge..48 catches(67%) for 667 yards....7 TDs and 4 drops...
Brutally even.....except the prevailing opinion is that Oakland has taken care of Carr, while we have hung our guys out to dry.....
Just not the case.....at all....
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Interesting.....so, you are saying that our problems are almost universallly on the defense and in our run game?
Im really only saying our WR's aren't as bad as everyone claims......and Oakland is "constantly" thrown in our faces as THE team that took care of their QB because they picked Cooper and signed Crabtree......
and, my point, is our GM made similar attempts to sign FA Wr's in Hartline AND Bowe...but they just haven't performed as well as Crabtree......and, as always, hindsight is everyones best friend....cause Crabtree was NOT a desirable FA back when the signings were happening......
Cooper....51 catches(63%) for 736 yards....4 TDs and 10 drops...
Benji........48 catches(63%) for 736 yards....4 TDs and 2 drops....
(note: same catch %, same yards, same TDs....except our guy has WAY fewer drops and better YPC)
Crabtree..57 catches(61%) for 696 yards....5 TDs and 3 drops...
Barnidge..48 catches(67%) for 667 yards....7 TDs and 4 drops...
Brutally even.....except the prevailing opinion is that Oakland has taken care of Carr, while we have hung our guys out to dry.....
Just not the case.....at all....
How does Benji compare in the fumble dept?Im really only saying our WR's aren't as bad as everyone claims......and Oakland is "constantly" thrown in our faces as THE team that took care of their QB because they picked Cooper and signed Crabtree......
and, my point, is our GM made similar attempts to sign FA Wr's in Hartline AND Bowe...but they just haven't performed as well as Crabtree......and, as always, hindsight is everyones best friend....cause Crabtree was NOT a desirable FA back when the signings were happening......
Cooper....51 catches(63%) for 736 yards....4 TDs and 10 drops...
Benji........48 catches(63%) for 736 yards....4 TDs and 2 drops....
(note: same catch %, same yards, same TDs....except our guy has WAY fewer drops and better YPC)
Crabtree..57 catches(61%) for 696 yards....5 TDs and 3 drops...
Barnidge..48 catches(67%) for 667 yards....7 TDs and 4 drops...
Brutally even.....except the prevailing opinion is that Oakland has taken care of Carr, while we have hung our guys out to dry.....
Just not the case.....at all....
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Interesting.....so, you are saying that our problems are almost universallly on the defense and in our run game?
Im really only saying our WR's aren't as bad as everyone claims......and Oakland is "constantly" thrown in our faces as THE team that took care of their QB because they picked Cooper and signed Crabtree......
and, my point, is our GM made similar attempts to sign FA Wr's in Hartline AND Bowe...but they just haven't performed as well as Crabtree......and, as always, hindsight is everyones best friend....cause Crabtree was NOT a desirable FA back when the signings were happening......
Cooper....51 catches(63%) for 736 yards....4 TDs and 10 drops...
Benji........48 catches(63%) for 736 yards....4 TDs and 2 drops....
(note: same catch %, same yards, same TDs....except our guy has WAY fewer drops and better YPC)
Crabtree..57 catches(61%) for 696 yards....5 TDs and 3 drops...
Barnidge..48 catches(67%) for 667 yards....7 TDs and 4 drops...
Brutally even.....except the prevailing opinion is that Oakland has taken care of Carr, while we have hung our guys out to dry.....
Just not the case.....at all....
Im really only saying our WR's aren't as bad as everyone claims......and Oakland is "constantly" thrown in our faces as THE team that took care of their QB because they picked Cooper and signed Crabtree......
and, my point, is our GM made similar attempts to sign FA Wr's in Hartline AND Bowe...but they just haven't performed as well as Crabtree......and, as always, hindsight is everyones best friend....cause Crabtree was NOT a desirable FA back when the signings were happening......
Cooper....51 catches(63%) for 736 yards....4 TDs and 10 drops...
Benji........48 catches(63%) for 736 yards....4 TDs and 2 drops....
(note: same catch %, same yards, same TDs....except our guy has WAY fewer drops and better YPC)
Crabtree..57 catches(61%) for 696 yards....5 TDs and 3 drops...
Barnidge..48 catches(67%) for 667 yards....7 TDs and 4 drops...
Brutally even.....except the prevailing opinion is that Oakland has taken care of Carr, while we have hung our guys out to dry.....
Just not the case.....at all....
Also add in, as a general rule a WR should be expected to have a better ypc than a TE, which Crabtree does have....but, Barnidge's production being almost the same speaks well for him.
I know that JFF did throw for a lot of yards vs. Pitt.....but getting TDs was a problem. But a lot of that is on the run game.
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Well, after the latest Johnny incident- is it Bosa or the QBOTF?
One of the following are gone after the season, maybe all. Manziel, Pettine, Farmer.
Right now, I'd trust Kuharich to do the drafting, not Farmer. Drafts a first round CB that can't start, and a QB who would rather be a party animal, than an NFL quarterback. I am SO tired of all this s**t.
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BUT, we're stuck on pause with a Front Office mindset that doesn't believe in drafting talented WRs in a passing era coming off a year where our WR Corps only caught 8 TD receptions in 16 games (losing all of our final 5 games and going 2-13 since week 11 of last year). Not to worry, we'll just whip 9 million $ on a FA WR that played his best football 3 years ago that our HC has zero intentions of playing.
The fact that they don't believe in getting their QBs investments like Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree reminds us any light at the end of the tunnel can only be the headlamp of an oncoming train while we're sentenced to Farmer and our high school coaching staff. We deserve better than this folks.
I keep hearing about Cooper and Crabtree and how our front office doesn't care enough about our QB's to get them the great weapons that Oakland got Carr.....
But, if you look at the #'s, our guys are doing just as well(better actually).....Benji has better stats than Cooper and Barnidge has better stats than Crabtree.......so, Id say our guys have equal weapons to Carr.....considering our "weapons" are putting up the same/better numbers with so much less around them...
We signed Hartline and Bowe....and Yeah.....Bowe is a bust.....we all get that.....BUT, Crabtree was NOT a hot item and most thought he was done(like Bowe), which is why he was basically the last WR signed....just turns out he's been revitalized this season....(luck? or smarts?....who knows).....
But lets stop with the "our guys have no weapons schtick"....when we have 2 of the top preforming pass catchers in the league.....
Benji has the same # of catches, the same TD's and more yards than Cooper(and less than 1/2 the drops).....
Barnidge has the same catches & yards as Crabtree and 2.5 times the TD's......
And Oakland has no TE.....so......its' really getting old hearing how much better these guys are doing than our guys, when they really arent.....
I keep hearing about Cooper and Crabtree and how our front office doesn't care enough about our QB's to get them the great weapons that Oakland got Carr.....
But, if you look at the #'s, our guys are doing just as well(better actually).....Benji has better stats than Cooper and Barnidge has better stats than Crabtree.......so, Id say our guys have equal weapons to Carr.....considering our "weapons" are putting up the same/better numbers with so much less around them...
We signed Hartline and Bowe....and Yeah.....Bowe is a bust.....we all get that.....BUT, Crabtree was NOT a hot item and most thought he was done(like Bowe), which is why he was basically the last WR signed....just turns out he's been revitalized this season....(luck? or smarts?....who knows).....
But lets stop with the "our guys have no weapons schtick"....when we have 2 of the top preforming pass catchers in the league.....
Benji has the same # of catches, the same TD's and more yards than Cooper(and less than 1/2 the drops).....
Barnidge has the same catches & yards as Crabtree and 2.5 times the TD's......
And Oakland has no TE.....so......its' really getting old hearing how much better these guys are doing than our guys, when they really arent.....
Our entire WR Corps had 8 TD receptions in 2014 so that was good enough reason for concern. And when teams started to catch on we had nothing to worry about in the passing game in the red zone - they could stop our running game easier. We lost our last 5 games before losing 8 of our first 10 games this year. Yes, we have 1 WR that everybody is pleased with today; but don't we employ 6 or 7?
As much as I'm pleased with Benjamin starting for the very first time in his 4 year career, 3 of his 4 receiving TDs were in our first 2 games of the year. Now that every opponent knows we have nothing else at WR on the perimeter - they've been finding it much easier to match up with him. It would be really nice if we had someone else for them to worry about but the little fellers (Gabriel & Hawk) don't scare anybody.You said it yourself this summer that Hartline's best days are parked in the rear view mirror. Meanwhile our front office is paying Bowe 9 million $ this year for the football he played 3-4 years ago. Then, they cut Mayle and Pryor so I'm glad one of us in this conversation is ecstatic with the WR Corps today.
Barnidge isn't a WR - he's a TE. In his 7 year career, the most receptions he ever had in 1 season was 13 while heading into this year. It's a nice story we all like; but that doesn't mean we have good talent or depth at WR. We have Benjamin who recently very carefully said he would like to stay if Cleveland has the right coaching staff.
So what happens when teams like Cincy start jamming the TE and they put their best corner on Benjamin? Our running game settles into a very cozy 31st ranking. Only 1 of our 5 offensive linemen showed growth while none of the RBs from 2014 improved. In essence, all but Schwartz, Benjamin and Barnidge regressed on a unit that fields 11 guys per play.
Before we get to all the improvement going on in Oakland - you never answered my question. What defensive players returning from 2014 have improved? How many times do we see first contact with an opposing ball carrier = tackled? Very infrequently. Nobody is playing faster; and I think that's a reflection of the coaching staff. The 32nd ranking of this defense isn't surprising. In order for vets and players to buy into a scheme - they gotta see the results and they haven't.
Last year, Oakland only won 3 games so they earned the right to draft 4th overall. With that pick - they drafted a WR you're now comparing to a 4 year vet having a career year. However, because there's another good WR option who is only 27 years old (Michael Crabtree) for Derek Carr - he doesn't have to be the only guy like Benjamin is in our WR Corps. We were so worried about those 2 guys - that even their 3rd WR was making big plays and scoring on us. When defenses are putting their best corner on the rookie WR - Crabtree is going to be the beneficiary posting nice numbers. I think they both make each other better. When that's going on outside - it sure opens up the running game.
This is the difference in Derek Carr (below) from last year to this year while their offense ranks 12th out of 32 teams in yardage. I think I saw us at 27th for whatever that's worth or isn't
Year G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate
2015 10 341 216 63.3 34.1 2,565 7.5 256.5 21 6.2 6 1.8 68T 35 8 11 76 99.4
2014 16 599 348 58.1 37.4 3,270 5.5 204.4 21 3.5 12 2.0 77T 28 7 24 149 76.6
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I keep hearing about Cooper and Crabtree and how our front office doesn't care enough about our QB's to get them the great weapons that Oakland got Carr.....
But, if you look at the #'s, our guys are doing just as well(better actually).....Benji has better stats than Cooper and Barnidge has better stats than Crabtree.......so, Id say our guys have equal weapons to Carr.....considering our "weapons" are putting up the same/better numbers with so much less around them...
We signed Hartline and Bowe....and Yeah.....Bowe is a bust.....we all get that.....BUT, Crabtree was NOT a hot item and most thought he was done(like Bowe), which is why he was basically the last WR signed....just turns out he's been revitalized this season....(luck? or smarts?....who knows).....
But lets stop with the "our guys have no weapons schtick"....when we have 2 of the top preforming pass catchers in the league.....
Benji has the same # of catches, the same TD's and more yards than Cooper(and less than 1/2 the drops).....
Barnidge has the same catches & yards as Crabtree and 2.5 times the TD's......
And Oakland has no TE.....so......its' really getting old hearing how much better these guys are doing than our guys, when they really arent.....
Our entire WR Corps had 8 TD receptions in 2014 so that was good enough reason for concern. And when teams started to catch on we had nothing to worry about in the passing game in the red zone - they could stop our running game easier. We lost our last 5 games before losing 8 of our first 10 games this year. Yes, we have 1 WR that everybody is pleased with today; but don't we employ 6 or 7?
As much as I'm pleased with Benjamin starting for the very first time in his 4 year career, 3 of his 4 receiving TDs were in our first 2 games of the year. Now that every opponent knows we have nothing else at WR on the perimeter - they've been finding it much easier to match up with him. It would be really nice if we had someone else for them to worry about but the little fellers (Gabriel & Hawk) don't scare anybody.You said it yourself this summer that Hartline's best days are parked in the rear view mirror. Meanwhile our front office is paying Bowe 9 million $ this year for the football he played 3-4 years ago. Then, they cut Mayle and Pryor so I'm glad one of us in this conversation is ecstatic with the WR Corps today.
Barnidge isn't a WR - he's a TE. In his 7 year career, the most receptions he ever had in 1 season was 13 while heading into this year. It's a nice story we all like; but that doesn't mean we have good talent or depth at WR. We have Benjamin who recently very carefully said he would like to stay if Cleveland has the right coaching staff.
So what happens when teams like Cincy start jamming the TE and they put their best corner on Benjamin? Our running game settles into a very cozy 31st ranking. Only 1 of our 5 offensive linemen showed growth while none of the RBs from 2014 improved. In essence, all but Schwartz, Benjamin and Barnidge regressed on a unit that fields 11 guys per play.
Before we get to all the improvement going on in Oakland - you never answered my question. What defensive players returning from 2014 have improved? How many times do we see first contact with an opposing ball carrier = tackled? Very infrequently. Nobody is playing faster; and I think that's a reflection of the coaching staff. The 32nd ranking of this defense isn't surprising. In order for vets and players to buy into a scheme - they gotta see the results and they haven't.
Last year, Oakland only won 3 games so they earned the right to draft 4th overall. With that pick - they drafted a WR you're now comparing to a 4 year vet having a career year. However, because there's another good WR option who is only 27 years old (Michael Crabtree) for Derek Carr - he doesn't have to be the only guy like Benjamin is in our WR Corps. We were so worried about those 2 guys - that even their 3rd WR was making big plays and scoring on us. When defenses are putting their best corner on the rookie WR - Crabtree is going to be the beneficiary posting nice numbers. I think they both make each other better. When that's going on outside - it sure opens up the running game.
This is the difference in Derek Carr (below) from last year to this year while their offense ranks 12th out of 32 teams in yardage. I think I saw us at 27th for whatever that's worth or isn't
Year G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate
2015 10 341 216 63.3 34.1 2,565 7.5 256.5 21 6.2 6 1.8 68T 35 8 11 76 99.4
2014 16 599 348 58.1 37.4 3,270 5.5 204.4 21 3.5 12 2.0 77T 28 7 24 149 76.6
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