Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
Good points. This definitely isn't the same "when Johnny comes marching home again hurrah" song many of us grew up listening to.
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You keep coming up with great points Flugel. I'm starting to have my doubts about Pettine, but still hoping he comes good. The recent Manziel incident has made me wonder whether our coaches are looking after the players (especially the young ones) outside the building. Young, lots of money, plenty of attention= lots of potential trouble.
We also have to remember that our coaches are new at this too, and that's all of them. Who appointed all our coaches with no previous coaching experience? That was a bad call.
You keep coming up with great points Flugel. I'm starting to have my doubts about Pettine, but still hoping he comes good. The recent Manziel incident has made me wonder whether our coaches are looking after the players (especially the young ones) outside the building. Young, lots of money, plenty of attention= lots of potential trouble.
We also have to remember that our coaches are new at this too, and that's all of them. Who appointed all our coaches with no previous coaching experience? That was a bad call.
Thanks DD! With so many talented players on our door step in that first round, I just wished they went after somebody they ALL felt good about on and off the field.
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Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
Oh no you didn't!!!Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
JFF is the savior of the Browns!!
Dudes been a party animal all his life. Only the front office of this organization fell for the "lets wreck the league" phone calls.
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Oh no you didn't!!!Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
JFF is the savior of the Browns!!
Dudes been a party animal all his life. Only the front office of this organization fell for the "lets wreck the league" phone calls.
Oh no you didn't!!!
JFF is the savior of the Browns!!
Dudes been a party animal all his life. Only the front office of this organization fell for the "lets wreck the league" phone calls.
I think he said "lets wreck this team" but there was static and he thought he said league.
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Look who's at this party. . .
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lmao
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Let Johnny start. Why not. I don't recall a more fucked up dysfunctional season in this team's history. Might as well go all out.
Or try Mingo at QB. Joe Thomas might want to try his hand at fullback. Hell, McCown might be a fine safety. I bet Mack would have fun fuckin around as a placekicker.
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Look who's at this party. . .
Look who's at this party. . .
When is that from?
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Can we maybe all agree, that Johnny might be stupid.
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Just to inject a little humor, how funny would it be if McCown and Davis got hurt somehow and Manziel had to come in? That would be such a Cleveland Browns event to occur.
Just to inject a little humor, how funny would it be if McCown and Davis got hurt somehow and Manziel had to come in? That would be such a Cleveland Browns event to occur.
If they deactivate him for MNF, Hartline is the qb in that scenario.
hey stupid, He admits he is an alcoholic. Hey stupid, he was in rehab that you the taxpayer paid for. Hey dumbo, when you get out of rehab, not only are you not supposed to drink anymore, you are not supposed to hang out with people that do drink, go to bars that you once attended while still drinking and you are supposed to get a sponsor..I'll bet he has no sponsor and hangs with folks that party and goes to the same bars and nightclubs prior to his rehab.
Other than the taxpayer thing, Largely correct. Alcoholics have a big problem admitting to being one, and Johnny has never done so publicly. It takes many, many years for anyone who's in AA to safely hang out at a party where alcohol is being used- some avoid those situations like the plague, because they know they can't control themselves in that situation. BTW, NFL players probably have the best and most comprehensive health insurance in the country.
One of the things that I heard most from many former clients who were also substance abusers is that the entire thing was just totally baffling to them They could never understand that promises they made were absolutely sincere when they made them, but were broken by them at almost the first opportunity no matter what the personal cost or the loss of trust in them by persons they so wanted to have trust in them. It's a baffling, self destructive disease which the abuser himself cannot understand other than that it continues to destroy what they want the most despite all desire to the contrary. JM is in this trap. It has nothing to do whatsoever with whether he wants to be a Brown or a good NFL QB. It has to do with something that right now he has no control of nor understanding of why it is happening. It would be easy to just call him stupid. But that isn't it at all. He is in fine company with many highly intelligent and highly talented people who have traveled this exact same path.
And yes, he is still totally responsible for the outcome. This one is on him, not Pettine or anyone else. Pettine is doing exactly what he should. It's called tough love. You reluctantly and sadly follow through with exactly what you said you would do if he could not control his off the field behavior. Have a seat JM and get professional help again. It didn't take.
By the way my definition of an alcohol problem is that if alcohol is causing you a problem, then you have an alcohol problem. Using that well known definition to AA members, if you lose your starting job as an NFL QB to a video of yourself gone viral with a bottle in your hand, then you have an alcohol problem because it just caused you to lose your dream in less than a minute. Find a sponsor and lose all those enablers including the "friends" in Austin and the drunk girlfriend. That is just the first step. Not one of them has your best interest at heart JM. Not one!
@BenVolin: Jay Glazer says on Fox that Manziel was demoted to No. 3 QB not just bc of that video but bc he lied to #Browns and said it was an old video
I can't add much to what AG said- he's preaching the Gospel truth. But that he lied is telling. I'm sure AG will ditto that's routine with guys who have a serious drinking problem and want to cover it up. And this is serious, guys. PG- anyone that still wants to say he went to rehab for anything but booze has their head in the sand. His heavy drinking since high school is well documented. It took him around 2 months out of rehab to fall back into the same bad habits. The rumors he was spotted in Cleveland bars on numerous occasions. The the admission he had been drinking with drunk GF. EDIT: Recent report he was spotted in a Columbus Nightclub until really late after the OSU- MSU game. The the latest in Texas. Reports it wasn't just "a few" over two days. I haven't seen the video, but the one picture I saw of him- he looks pretty shit faced. If he's thinking "I can control my drinking"- you're already out of control.
A guy on another board made an excellent comment. 50 years ago quarterbacks like Namath, Stabler and Meredith could get away with partying their asses off, and still compete. The league has changed, and those days are long gone.
That the Browns have been willing to work with him given the circumstances is pretty amazing. Fer sure, either Johnny gets his act together, or he's going to be out of football in a year or two. Chris Carter said way back the Browns should have cut him- for a real serious wake up call.
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Look who's at this party. . .
When is that from?
When is that from?
It's old.
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Okay, If Johnny lied to his coach and staff about the video being old, then this makes a lot of sense.
I bet that if that's really the true reason for his benching, I completely understand and agree with it.
You can't lie to your bosses, and bullshit around questions. That kills their trust in you, plus you're not being accountable for your actions.
I don't know if you can teach somebody to be accountable for there actions or do what they say they're going to do.
Okay, If Johnny lied to his coach and staff about the video being old, then this makes a lot of sense.
Lied to the coaches, then told his friends to lie for him according to these reports.
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Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
This^
Zombo
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Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
Exactly what DBone said here. Hasselbeck is so much like McCown - they are still around
because they LOVE the game. Johnny Boy just doesn't get it.
Matt Hasselbeck upon being named starter, rearranged his already planned bye week vacation and got together with Coby Fleener to play catch.
Johnny Boy flew home, partied with his boyz, and when asked about it by his bosses, he lied to their faces.
One is a boy, the other is a man. Men lead NFL teams, not spoiled boys. You can't teach someone honor and accountability.... You either have it or you don't.
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Just to inject a little humor, how funny would it be if McCown and Davis got hurt somehow and Manziel had to come in? That would be such a Cleveland Browns event to occur.
If they deactivate him for MNF, Hartline is the qb in that scenario.
hey stupid, He admits he is an alcoholic. Hey stupid, he was in rehab that you the taxpayer paid for. Hey dumbo, when you get out of rehab, not only are you not supposed to drink anymore, you are not supposed to hang out with people that do drink, go to bars that you once attended while still drinking and you are supposed to get a sponsor..I'll bet he has no sponsor and hangs with folks that party and goes to the same bars and nightclubs prior to his rehab.
Other than the taxpayer thing, Largely correct. Alcoholics have a big problem admitting to being one, and Johnny has never done so publicly. It takes many, many years for anyone who's in AA to safely hang out at a party where alcohol is being used- some avoid those situations like the plague, because they know they can't control themselves in that situation. BTW, NFL players probably have the best and most comprehensive health insurance in the country.
One of the things that I heard most from many former clients who were also substance abusers is that the entire thing was just totally baffling to them They could never understand that promises they made were absolutely sincere when they made them, but were broken by them at almost the first opportunity no matter what the personal cost or the loss of trust in them by persons they so wanted to have trust in them. It's a baffling, self destructive disease which the abuser himself cannot understand other than that it continues to destroy what they want the most despite all desire to the contrary. JM is in this trap. It has nothing to do whatsoever with whether he wants to be a Brown or a good NFL QB. It has to do with something that right now he has no control of nor understanding of why it is happening. It would be easy to just call him stupid. But that isn't it at all. He is in fine company with many highly intelligent and highly talented people who have traveled this exact same path.
And yes, he is still totally responsible for the outcome. This one is on him, not Pettine or anyone else. Pettine is doing exactly what he should. It's called tough love. You reluctantly and sadly follow through with exactly what you said you would do if he could not control his off the field behavior. Have a seat JM and get professional help again. It didn't take.
By the way my definition of an alcohol problem is that if alcohol is causing you a problem, then you have an alcohol problem. Using that well known definition to AA members, if you lose your starting job as an NFL QB to a video of yourself gone viral with a bottle in your hand, then you have an alcohol problem because it just caused you to lose your dream in less than a minute. Find a sponsor and lose all those enablers including the "friends" in Austin and the drunk girlfriend. That is just the first step. Not one of them has your best interest at heart JM. Not one!
@BenVolin: Jay Glazer says on Fox that Manziel was demoted to No. 3 QB not just bc of that video but bc he lied to #Browns and said it was an old video
I can't add much to what AG said- he's preaching the Gospel truth. But that he lied is telling. I'm sure AG will ditto that's routine with guys who have a serious drinking problem and want to cover it up. And this is serious, guys. PG- anyone that still wants to say he went to rehab for anything but booze has their head in the sand. His heavy drinking since high school is well documented. It took him around 2 months out of rehab to fall back into the same bad habits. The rumors he was spotted in Cleveland bars on numerous occasions. The the admission he had been drinking with drunk GF. EDIT: Recent report he was spotted in a Columbus Nightclub until really late after the OSU- MSU game. The the latest in Texas. Reports it wasn't just "a few" over two days. I haven't seen the video, but the one picture I saw of him- he looks pretty shit faced. If he's thinking "I can control my drinking"- you're already out of control.
A guy on another board made an excellent comment. 50 years ago quarterbacks like Namath, Stabler and Meredith could get away with partying their asses off, and still compete. The league has changed, and those days are long gone.
That the Browns have been willing to work with him given the circumstances is pretty amazing. Fer sure, either Johnny gets his act together, or he's going to be out of football in a year or two. Chris Carter said way back the Browns should have cut him- for a real serious wake up call.
I can't add much to what AG said- he's preaching the Gospel truth. But that he lied is telling. I'm sure AG will ditto that's routine with guys who have a serious drinking problem and want to cover it up. And this is serious, guys.
The first casualty of an substance problem is your word. It's lost quite quickly and usually well before that person is aware it's even at risk. And to paraphrase Pettine, much easier to lose than to gain back. It's a hellofa problem to carry in life. The devil incarnate because the first person you lie to is yourself. I feel sorry for those who truly love him for himself, because right now they feel absolutely helpless to do anything to stop this crash and burn.
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Just my opinion... there are plenty of success stories out there, about
those who have dealt with alcoholism, and broken away from it, and
saved themselves and had a great life afterwards...
Some who fail to break with alcholism (as well as other drugs), surely don't need anyone enabling them to fail again.
But it seems that football is an enabler to JM, he can hit bottom, but then
bounce right back up again because he's "famous", and a qb in the limelight.
It apparently worked well in college. But the pro game is a big step up.
Now, he has pogo sticked while with the Browns, even after rehab. It won't be the first time, surely,
that it takes at least two rehab visits..... whatever the reason for his rehab... he has failed again.
He may need some tough love from the NFL game to save himself once and for all.
But the Browns players deserve much, much better than all this. So do us fans.
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One thing that may come up is whether or not he is in the NFL substance abuse program......and I think there is a very good chance that he is.....
Reading the policy, he meets ALL the criteria for the program. With his college issues and very visible drinking habits, then a public admission followed by rehab.....he "should" be at minimum, stage one in the program.....My guess is he could be stage 2.....we will soon find out....
One of the interesting aspects to the new policy is that you can avoid your first suspension by obtaining "treatment"(ala rehab) for your problem. But continued use of that or ANY substance(including alcohol, ask Josh) will get you fined and or suspended.....
So, I would not be surprised to hear he has an upcoming suspension...4 games?....10 games?.....
And I could be 100% wrong......but if you read the policy....its all there in black and white....
And, before anyone says "we would know"... the fine for leaking any info is $500,000
One thing that may come up is whether or not he is in the NFL substance abuse program......and I think there is a very good chance that he is.....
Reading the policy, he meets ALL the criteria for the program.
Interesting speculation...
I thought Josh was under an alcohol prohibition due to a DWI that occurred apart from his "substance" transgressions.
You're probably right on Josh.....forgot bout that DUI.....
Here is my theory on why Johnny could be in the program.....and there are actually 2 different ways he could get there.....
1) The obvious way to get in the program is to fail a test. BUT you can get in a number of other ways too....and those ways include things you did in college(as Josh knows all too well)......such as....
- Being arrested while intoxicated and/or receiving treatment for any kind of substance abuse(which Johnny DID both in college)(and AGAIN this past spring).....so, this alone should be enough....
- Just Conduct that suggests you have a problem with substance abuse is enough....of which there are many instances...getting thrown out of the Manning camp, drunk swan, money phone, etc etc etce....(though I doubt these things are enough on their own).....
Now, these instances "could" have got him in the program....BUT, since he was not held accountable following the roadside incident, Im going to guess this isnt it......though, in reading, just the admission that he drank isnt enough. So they would have had to fly to Cleveland and test him(just like they did with Josh, after that flight) and we dont know if that happened.....(if it did, then we will hear soon enough....these things take time though)
2) The second way he would be in the program(and MY guess) is following the rolled up bill event. YEP....Im guessing THAT picture triggered an immediate drug test from the league. If it did, and he failed, then he would be in the program too....BUT NOT FOR ALCOHOL. Considering how high profile he is, I cant believe the league would just let that pic slide. So, lets assume he got tested immediately following the pic being posted....
- If he failed, no one but HIM and the league would know...(not even the team)....
- And, here's the caveat, this can be negated and the offender can avoid fines AND suspension by seeking and completing treatment
- Now, we all know Johnny said(many times) that he didnt have a problem and wasnt gonna change for anybody....and then, SUDDENLY, during the off season(and just a few months after the ole rolled up bill incident) he seeks out treatment and does an extended stay......WOW....(I dont believe it and I dont think he did it on his own)(esp based upon how he's acting now)
So.....which is more likely......he suddenly decided he had a problem and sought treatment on his own???(cause he sure isnt acting like it)........OR......he opted for treatment to avoid discipline from the league (which is more how he's acting now, as if he doesnt take it seriously).......
And , if he went into treatment for the bill incident, then alcohol might still be allowed and no one would be aware he was in the program.....
3) The third way to get into the program is simply to ADMIT you have a problem. And by entering rehab, he did just that. You KNOW the league took note of his rehab and, I'm sure, had some discussions with him about it. So, my moneys says that if he wasnt already in ti for the previous 2 reasons, then this is enough on its own.
Finally.....if you're already in the program and show signs of continued addictive behaviors and such, THEN alcohol could be added to the banned list for that player.....and Id expect this to become a possibility for Johnny.....because, in addition to embarrassing himself, he is also embarrassing his team AND the league.......
So....we shall see......but that's my thinking on the whole drug program and why I think theres a strong argument for Johnny to be in it......and league discipline takes quite a while to happen, so there is still an outside chance that his roadside incident might still be followed with some kind of discipline.....or a second rehab stint......
I kind of see johnny as the next Chris Carter.....he's gonna have to fall real far before he gets it......
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Mudfly-".he's gonna have to fall real far before he gets it......"
Think you are right. Someone has always been there to catch him in the past, but now he's in freefall. I'm not sure anyone knows yet where his bottom is. Some have to lose everything. Others wake up with the first real slapdown.
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