Let's talk about the Browns olinemen for a change

calfoxwc

Sorry, Mud, but with Greco, all I'm finding is older ones...

but the meaning behind it is still there - this is a great bunch

of guys. Add a few elite weapons, and the Browns offense will be unstoppable.

The oline is uplifting for me. I complained about the offensive line so much in years past...

now, that is one of the top units in the NFL. Here's another one on Greco:

http://www.wkyc.com/story/sports/nfl/browns/2015/08/30/john-greco-my-goal-is-to-start-for-browns/32418971/

Mudfly

@calfoxwc said:

this is a great bunch

of guys. Add a few elite weapons, and the Browns offense will be unstoppable.

The oline is uplifting for me. I complained about the offensive line so much in years past...

Im with ya there Cal......definitely our most solid group of players.....

we should be good for a while with this group....no doubt

Mudfly

@calfoxwc said:

and Mitchell Swartz has been outstanding - it was completely nonsense for

him to have been bashed earlier in his start with the Browns.

Gotta agree with this too.....1000%.....

Been defending him since Ive been here....and he's just continued to get better and better....(not that he was ever "bad")

Canton Dawg

I find it odd that the O line was drafted by different regimes.

Is it that easy to draft solid offensive lineman?

TexasAg1969

So the moral of this tale is that it's all on the RB's for having such a shitty running game. Why didn't I see this? Must be because one eye is closed.

Mudfly

@texasag1969 said:
So the moral of this tale is that it's all on the RB's for having such a shitty running game. Why didn't I see this? Must be because one eye is closed.

Well....lets see....last season this was the #1 rated line and, at least for a while, the #1 rated run team.....

This year....same players, but a crap run game.....and its on the players?.....( cause everyone likes Flip?)

BUT....with the same players playing like shit on the D???......it's all on the coach?....(cause no one likes Oneill).....

I guess Im crazy, but I see exactly the opposite of what everyone else sees.....

I see an O coordinator that really isnt getting it done or able to extract a good run game(from the same players that Shanny used to run all over people)....yet, we blame the players for not doing well.....

And I see a defense full of players who performed well last year(in the SAME system), yet are playing really poorly this year(with no changes to what they are doing)......yet, we blame the coach who hasnt changed the system....(see DB's and LB's)

Weird.....

Richiswhere

@mudfly said:

Well....lets see....last season this was the #1 rated line and, at least for a while, the #1 rated run team.....

This year....same players, but a crap run game.....and its on the players?.....( cause everyone likes Flip?)

BUT....with the same players playing like shit on the D???......it's all on the coach?....(cause no one likes Oneill).....

I guess Im crazy, but I see exactly the opposite of what everyone else sees.....

I see an O coordinator that really isnt getting it done or able to extract a good run game(from the same players that Shanny used to run all over people)....yet, we blame the players for not doing well.....

Well Flip does run his offense with only 10 player over 20% of the time

And I see a defense full of players who performed well last year(in the SAME system), yet are playing really poorly this year(with no changes to what they are doing)......yet, we blame the coach who hasnt changed the system....(see DB's and LB's)

They were terrible against the run last year and the are god awful against it this year. The biggest difference this year been the secondary.

Weird.....

calfoxwc

So the moral of this tale is that it's all on the RB's for having such a shitty running game. Why didn't I see this? Must be because one eye is closed. Tex

*********************************

Nope. The Browns don't have elite wr's. It takes all McCown's experience and toughness, to hang in there,

and get the pass game working with the little wr's they have.

No AJ Green, etc. The saving grace is Barnidge - who everybody surely hopes stays with the Browns...

Teams are playing the los and stopping the run - making the Browns qb work miracles in the passing game.

I keep seeing lb's on opposing defenses close in on the los on nearly every first down. That's a bad thing.

Mudfly

@richiswhere said:

@mudfly said:

Well....lets see....last season this was the #1 rated line and, at least for a while, the #1 rated run team.....

This year....same players, but a crap run game.....and its on the players?.....( cause everyone likes Flip?)

BUT....with the same players playing like shit on the D???......it's all on the coach?....(cause no one likes Oneill).....

I guess Im crazy, but I see exactly the opposite of what everyone else sees.....

I see an O coordinator that really isnt getting it done or able to extract a good run game(from the same players that Shanny used to run all over people)....yet, we blame the players for not doing well.....

Well Flip does run his offense with only 10 player over 20% of the time

And I see a defense full of players who performed well last year(in the SAME system), yet are playing really poorly this year(with no changes to what they are doing)......yet, we blame the coach who hasnt changed the system....(see DB's and LB's)

They were terrible against the run last year and the are god awful against it this year. The biggest difference this year been the secondary.

Weird.....

I dont know what that means...10 players.....I do know that our Offense got worse this year and scores less than last year....and our running game got a LOT worse.....so why all the love for Flip when everything has gone from bad to worse????

Defensively....our pass defense has fallen from #1 to #12....same players. same system........and our pass rush has fallen off the map(same players, same system).....so what did Oneill do to make them worse?...or is it that the DB's have all missed a ton of games and the LB's just arent playing well...?

Cause I dont see Oneill out there missing all those tackles and getting beat on virtually every play......

Bob806

@mudfly said:

I dont know what that means...10 players.....I do know that our Offense got worse this year and scores less than last year....and our running game got a LOT worse.....so why all the love for Flip when everything has gone from bad to worse????

Defensively....our pass defense has fallen from #1 to #12....same players. same system........and our pass rush has fallen off the map(same players, same system).....so what did Oneill do to make them worse?...or is it that the DB's have all missed a ton of games and the LB's just arent playing well...?

Cause I dont see Oneill out there missing all those tackles and getting beat on virtually every play......

Outside of Dansby for a few plays here & there, the LBs have been invisible. Kirksey, who looked good as a rookie has regressed.

I think we need to take a serious look at LBs in the next draft (I've been saying this since 1994). Look at our AFC North rivals, their LBs key their defenses every year.

Westside Steve

Okay fair enough. I like all the guys on the offensive line, least of which Alex Mack because I get the feeling he doesn't care if he's here or not. Spends the off season in South America or somewhere.... but that doesn't necessarily affect his dedication so, there. So since we all love the oline and they are all quiet and studious etcetera how is it they get a pass for not playing well this year? Why is Josh getting killed and why are our running backs being hit in the backfield so often?

WSS

calfoxwc

receivers. The passing game isn't a threat but once in a while,

except for Barnidge.

They have doubled on the coverage on Barnidge, and once in a blue moon,

the ball goes long to Travis.

Not enough to be unstoppable. Solid coverage teams can blitz at McCown because

all too often, except for the terrific TE....

he has nobody to throw to. The windows are small with a small wr. No big targets at wr who can jump.

If the Browns offense had an A.J. Green, they'd be trying to double cover Green, and Barnidge would

have an easier time of it. That is just how I see it.;

Richiswhere

@mudfly said:

I dont know what that means...10 players.....I do know that our Offense got worse this year and scores less than last year....and our running game got a LOT worse.....so why all the love for Flip when everything has gone from bad to worse????

Malcolm Johnson our fullback has played 142 of 691 offensive snaps this year that 20.5% offensive plays. He does not run the ball (tight end at Mississippi State) and has had 4 targets in the passing game and 2 were in the first game so the odds of the ball going to him are 02.8%. Last but definitely not least he can't block for shit. We would be better off if we just used another offensive lineman instead of him at least we might have someone who could block. So you see whenever MJ is on the field we are essentially playing with 10 guys on offense.

Defensively....our pass defense has fallen from #1 to #12....same players. same system........and our pass rush has fallen off the map(same players, same system).....so what did Oneill do to make them worse?...or is it that the DB's have all missed a ton of games and the LB's just arent playing well...?

Cause I dont see Oneill out there missing all those tackles and getting beat on virtually every play......

Opal312

Cam Erving is doing well in my opinion. A rookie playing out of position. I'm glad we drafted him. When Dallas takes Mannziel in the off season we should get a wide receiver. Then the team will pick up steam by drafting a quarterback. The Oline will be fine next year. We need weapons.

Westside Steve

@calfoxwc said:

receivers. The passing game isn't a threat but once in a while,

except for Barnidge.

They have doubled on the coverage on Barnidge, and once in a blue moon,

the ball goes long to Travis.

Not enough to be unstoppable. Solid coverage teams can blitz at McCown because

all too often, except for the terrific TE....

he has nobody to throw to. The windows are small with a small wr. No big targets at wr who can jump.

If the Browns offense had an A.J. Green, they'd be trying to double cover Green, and Barnidge would

have an easier time of it. That is just how I see it.;

What's the big difference with the receivers this year? Seems like both Josh and Johnny have completed a fair amount of passes.

WSS

Tour2ma

O-Line? O-line is boring...

Canton Dawg

@tour2ma said:
O-Line? O-line is boring...

If Ghoolie reads this thread, his head will explode.

calfoxwc

@westside-steve said:

What's the big difference with the receivers this year? Seems like both Josh and Johnny have completed a fair amount of passes.

WSS

****************************

Well, good question. I think last year, they were running on them -

Terrance West 171 673 3.9 36 4 4 48.1 1 1 30

Isaiah Crowell 148 607 4.1 35 5 8 37.9 3 2 34

Ben Tate 106 333 3.1 25 1 4 41.6 0 0

The three backs totalled 1,513 yards.

because they had 6'2" Miles Austin, Jordan Cameron, and sometimes, Josh Gordon.

Now, West is gone, Jordan and Austin and Gordon are gone. So, my theory is, they can double cover Barnidge,

leaving single coverage on all the little short receivers, except for Hartline, who they might worry about ...

so they don't worry about the big receivers because they are gone.......and just work to shut down the run, since

the Browns run so often on first down. As in, most of the time, except I noticed in the pittspuke game, they

tended to stop doing it.

calfoxwc

Isaiah Crowell 107 328 3.1 32 1 1 32.8 0 0 16 Duke Johnson Jr. 63 189 3.0 20 1 0 18.9 0 0 9 Johnny Manziel 17 90 5.3 14 0 0 15.0 0 0 3 Josh McCown 18 86 4.8 13 0 1 12.3 3 2 7 Robert Turbin 18 60 3.3 22 1 0 20.0 0 0 3 Shaun Draughn 2 10 5.0 6 0 0 2.0 0 0 0 Travis Benjamin 1 -7 -7.0 -7 0 0 -0.7 0 0 0 Totals 226 756 3.3 32 3 2 75.6 3 2

this year they only have 756 yds. I say, I've seen them continually lose series of downs, because the

run on first down so much, defenses simply key on that, and the offense ends up with only two downs to get a first down,

leaving the qb's and wr's to have to do heroics even to get a first down, which they have done often.

But, in the long run, the lack of elite weapons at wr is killing the offense, as well as the predictable runs on first down

so much of the time.

Tour2ma

cal,

I think you have to look at penalties as well.

The loading the box argument was used to death last year. Then, as now, we use formations that pull the opponent's D into the box.

I really think our running woes are RB related above all else. Neither Crow nor Duke have shown a knack for the ZBS so far. Our best ZBS RBs were moved on... Tate, West, Turbin... Draughn may have been better than any of them (and he looked OK for SF today).