Let's talk about the Browns olinemen for a change
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Well....lets see....last season this was the #1 rated line and, at least for a while, the #1 rated run team.....
This year....same players, but a crap run game.....and its on the players?.....( cause everyone likes Flip?)
BUT....with the same players playing like shit on the D???......it's all on the coach?....(cause no one likes Oneill).....
I guess Im crazy, but I see exactly the opposite of what everyone else sees.....
I see an O coordinator that really isnt getting it done or able to extract a good run game(from the same players that Shanny used to run all over people)....yet, we blame the players for not doing well.....
Well Flip does run his offense with only 10 player over 20% of the time
And I see a defense full of players who performed well last year(in the SAME system), yet are playing really poorly this year(with no changes to what they are doing)......yet, we blame the coach who hasnt changed the system....(see DB's and LB's)
They were terrible against the run last year and the are god awful against it this year. The biggest difference this year been the secondary.
Weird.....
I dont know what that means...10 players.....I do know that our Offense got worse this year and scores less than last year....and our running game got a LOT worse.....so why all the love for Flip when everything has gone from bad to worse????
Defensively....our pass defense has fallen from #1 to #12....same players. same system........and our pass rush has fallen off the map(same players, same system).....so what did Oneill do to make them worse?...or is it that the DB's have all missed a ton of games and the LB's just arent playing well...?
Cause I dont see Oneill out there missing all those tackles and getting beat on virtually every play......
I dont know what that means...10 players.....I do know that our Offense got worse this year and scores less than last year....and our running game got a LOT worse.....so why all the love for Flip when everything has gone from bad to worse????
Malcolm Johnson our fullback has played 142 of 691 offensive snaps this year that 20.5% offensive plays. He does not run the ball (tight end at Mississippi State) and has had 4 targets in the passing game and 2 were in the first game so the odds of the ball going to him are 02.8%. Last but definitely not least he can't block for shit. We would be better off if we just used another offensive lineman instead of him at least we might have someone who could block. So you see whenever MJ
is on the field we are essentially playing with 10 guys on offense. Defensively....our pass defense has fallen from #1 to #12....same players. same system........and our pass rush has fallen off the map(same players, same system).....so what did Oneill do to make them worse?...or is it that the DB's have all missed a ton of games and the LB's just arent playing well...?
Cause I dont see Oneill out there missing all those tackles and getting beat on virtually every play......
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Cam Erving is doing well in my opinion. A rookie playing out of position. I'm glad we drafted him. When Dallas takes Mannziel in the off season we should get a wide receiver. Then the team will pick up steam by drafting a quarterback. The Oline will be fine next year. We need weapons.
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receivers. The passing game isn't a threat but once in a while,
except for Barnidge.
They have doubled on the coverage on Barnidge, and once in a blue moon,
the ball goes long to Travis.
Not enough to be unstoppable. Solid coverage teams can blitz at McCown because
all too often, except for the terrific TE....
he has nobody to throw to. The windows are small with a small wr. No big targets at wr who can jump.
If the Browns offense had an A.J. Green, they'd be trying to double cover Green, and Barnidge would
have an easier time of it. That is just how I see it.;
receivers. The passing game isn't a threat but once in a while,
except for Barnidge.
They have doubled on the coverage on Barnidge, and once in a blue moon,
the ball goes long to Travis.
Not enough to be unstoppable. Solid coverage teams can blitz at McCown because
all too often, except for the terrific TE....
he has nobody to throw to. The windows are small with a small wr. No big targets at wr who can jump.
If the Browns offense had an A.J. Green, they'd be trying to double cover Green, and Barnidge would
have an easier time of it. That is just how I see it.;
What's the big difference with the receivers this year? Seems like both Josh and Johnny have completed a fair amount of passes.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
O-Line? O-line is boring...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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receivers. The passing game isn't a threat but once in a while,
except for Barnidge.
They have doubled on the coverage on Barnidge, and once in a blue moon,
the ball goes long to Travis.
Not enough to be unstoppable. Solid coverage teams can blitz at McCown because
all too often, except for the terrific TE....
he has nobody to throw to. The windows are small with a small wr. No big targets at wr who can jump.
If the Browns offense had an A.J. Green, they'd be trying to double cover Green, and Barnidge would
have an easier time of it. That is just how I see it.;
What's the big difference with the receivers this year? Seems like both Josh and Johnny have completed a fair amount of passes.
WSS
What's the big difference with the receivers this year? Seems like both Josh and Johnny have completed a fair amount of passes.
WSS
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Well, good question. I think last year, they were running on them -
Terrance West 171 673 3.9 36 4 4 48.1 1 1 30
Isaiah Crowell 148 607 4.1 35 5 8 37.9 3 2 34
Ben Tate 106 333 3.1 25 1 4 41.6 0 0
The three backs totalled 1,513 yards.
because they had 6'2" Miles Austin, Jordan Cameron, and sometimes, Josh Gordon.
Now, West is gone, Jordan and Austin and Gordon are gone. So, my theory is, they can double cover Barnidge,
leaving single coverage on all the little short receivers, except for Hartline, who they might worry about ...
so they don't worry about the big receivers because they are gone.......and just work to shut down the run, since
the Browns run so often on first down. As in, most of the time, except I noticed in the pittspuke game, they
tended to stop doing it.
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Isaiah Crowell 107 328 3.1 32 1 1 32.8 0 0 16 Duke Johnson Jr. 63 189 3.0 20 1 0 18.9 0 0 9 Johnny Manziel 17 90 5.3 14 0 0 15.0 0 0 3 Josh McCown 18 86 4.8 13 0 1 12.3 3 2 7 Robert Turbin 18 60 3.3 22 1 0 20.0 0 0 3 Shaun Draughn 2 10 5.0 6 0 0 2.0 0 0 0 Travis Benjamin 1 -7 -7.0 -7 0 0 -0.7 0 0 0 Totals 226 756 3.3 32 3 2 75.6 3 2
this year they only have 756 yds. I say, I've seen them continually lose series of downs, because the
run on first down so much, defenses simply key on that, and the offense ends up with only two downs to get a first down,
leaving the qb's and wr's to have to do heroics even to get a first down, which they have done often.
But, in the long run, the lack of elite weapons at wr is killing the offense, as well as the predictable runs on first down
so much of the time.
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cal,
I think you have to look at penalties as well.
The loading the box argument was used to death last year. Then, as now, we use formations that pull the opponent's D into the box.
I really think our running woes are RB related above all else. Neither Crow nor Duke have shown a knack for the ZBS so far. Our best ZBS RBs were moved on... Tate, West, Turbin... Draughn may have been better than any of them (and he looked OK for SF today).
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Austin for Hartline Barnidge for Cameron and a much better Benjamin for a bad Josh Gordon last year.
Maybe we arent running zone blocking as well as we did?
?
WSS
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I don't how how it changes.... Tour or Flugels would know, a few other guys...
Tour is probably right about the zbs and the rb's we have now. But several games in a row this season, I sat there,
and said "you watch, babe, they'll run on first down again"....
and that happened several series in a row. Most all the game. I didn't see that though, in the pittspuke game.
I don't know why they were doing it.
Bernie Kosar liked to throw the ball way downfield to get into the defenses' minds,
right from the beginning of the game...
I want to keep track of rushes on first down Mon night. Something is causing the olinemen to
miss the snap counts. Frustration, too much of something. Wish I knew...
I wonder how Elliot does with a zbs... does Ohio State do that? (hey, I never played, so....)
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I don't how how it changes.... Tour or Flugels would know, a few other guys...
Tour is probably right about the zbs and the rb's we have now. But several games in a row this season, I sat there,
and said "you watch, babe, they'll run on first down again"....
and that happened several series in a row. Most all the game. I didn't see that though, in the pittspuke game.
I don't know why they were doing it.
Bernie Kosar liked to throw the ball way downfield to get into the defenses' minds,
right from the beginning of the game...
I want to keep track of rushes on first down Mon night. Something is causing the olinemen to
miss the snap counts. Frustration, too much of something. Wish I knew...
I wonder how Elliot does with a zbs... does Ohio State do that? (hey, I never played, so....)
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I have graded both Crow and Duke pretty well in PassPro. Neither has been perfect, but rarely did they miss seeing the blitzer they needed to pick up.
I don't know about Zeke and the ZBS. I like him, but so much of the time the zone read gets him the second level so quick and clean it's hard for me to see what he will do in a pro offense.
Then there are other times like Saturday when he popped thru a sliver of a crack in the line that made me go, "Oh Yeah..."
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the lines. the lines.
anyone who knows football knows it's all about the lines....
(manziel dreams...chirp. chirp.)
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Can anyone explain why our rb's get hit in the backfield so often? I'm not saying we have allstar caliber running backs, but at the same time, I don't know any that can be successful when they're getting drilled 3 yards back every other run. Is this the fault of our OL? Our play design? I don't have the stats on hand, and I'm not going to make any up, but I recently heard the percentage of times our backs got hit in the backfield and it was staggering (don't remember the specific percentage, and not sure how to find it).
Even when we are getting blown out, it seems like almost every run we try and sneak in gets abruptly snuffed out.
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Again, my opinion, the Browns have been telegraphing rushes by running
on first down so consistently...
except they seemed to have broken from that the last game....
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Again, my opinion, the Browns have been telegraphing rushes by running
on first down so consistently...
except they seemed to have broken from that the last game....
Again, my opinion, the Browns have been telegraphing rushes by running
on first down so consistently...
That would be on Flip.....the coordinator that keeps getting praise....even though he is predictable and bland as hell......and abandons whatever works every game......and gets uber conservative whenever he even sniffs a lead......and hasnt found a way to run the ball with one of the best lines in the league.....
I thought Shanny was a whiny worm, but at least he was creative and knew enough to stay with something when it was working.......
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Again, my opinion, the Browns have been telegraphing rushes by running
on first down so consistently...
That would be on Flip.....the coordinator that keeps getting praise....even though he is predictable and bland as hell......and abandons whatever works every game......and gets uber conservative whenever he even sniffs a lead......and hasnt found a way to run the ball with one of the best lines in the league.....
I thought Shanny was a whiny worm, but at least he was creative and knew enough to stay with something when it was working.......
That would be on Flip.....the coordinator that keeps getting praise....even though he is predictable and bland as hell......and abandons whatever works every game......and gets uber conservative whenever he even sniffs a lead......and hasnt found a way to run the ball with one of the best lines in the league.....
I thought Shanny was a whiny worm, but at least he was creative and knew enough to stay with something when it was working.......
Our run game was pretty atrocious last year for pretty much every game after Mack went down - which was most of the season. We have Mack back now of course, but I'm not so sure that Mack was the reason our running game turned non-existent last year (at least not the whole reason)
Shanny ham also stuck with something when it wasn't working, so there's that
*edit*
And go ask on an Atlanta board what they think of Shanahan
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That would be on Flip.....the coordinator that keeps getting praise....even though he is predictable and bland as hell......and abandons whatever works every game......and gets uber conservative whenever he even sniffs a lead......and hasnt found a way to run the ball with one of the best lines in the league.....
I thought Shanny was a whiny worm, but at least he was creative and knew enough to stay with something when it was working.......
Our run game was pretty atrocious last year for pretty much every game after Mack went down - which was most of the season. We have Mack back now of course, but I'm not so sure that Mack was the reason our running game turned non-existent last year (at least not the whole reason)
Shanny ham also stuck with something when it wasn't working, so there's that
*edit*
And go ask on an Atlanta board what they think of Shanahan
Our run game was pretty atrocious last year for pretty much every game after Mack went down - which was most of the season. We have Mack back now of course, but I'm not so sure that Mack was the reason our running game turned non-existent last year (at least not the whole reason)
Shanny ham also stuck with something when it wasn't working, so there's that
*edit*
And go ask on an Atlanta board what they think of Shanahan
Ha....well Im no shanny fan......and, in fact, was happy to see him go.....
Just saying that I dont think Flip is an improvement...........
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Our run game was pretty atrocious last year for pretty much every game after Mack went down - which was most of the season. We have Mack back now of course, but I'm not so sure that Mack was the reason our running game turned non-existent last year (at least not the whole reason)
Shanny ham also stuck with something when it wasn't working, so there's that
*edit*
And go ask on an Atlanta board what they think of Shanahan
Ha....well Im no shanny fan......and, in fact, was happy to see him go.....
Just saying that I dont think Flip is an improvement...........
Ha....well Im no shanny fan......and, in fact, was happy to see him go.....
Just saying that I dont think Flip is an improvement...........
Different. Flip seems to have gotten a lot more out of Barnidge than Shanahanahanahanahan managed, for sure. Benjamin's production can be attributed to maturing as a player and recovering from injury, so no comparison there. Last year, at least, we had a semblance of a run game, even after mack's injury. We were disappointed to be 'only' getting 70-80 yards per game on the ground. Now we're frequently looking at 15-20 yard games total.
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Can anyone explain why our rb's get hit in the backfield so often? I'm not saying we have allstar caliber running backs, but at the same time, I don't know any that can be successful when they're getting drilled 3 yards back every other run. Is this the fault of our OL? Our play design? I don't have the stats on hand, and I'm not going to make any up, but I recently heard the percentage of times our backs got hit in the backfield and it was staggering (don't remember the specific percentage, and not sure how to find it).
Even when we are getting blown out, it seems like almost every run we try and sneak in gets abruptly snuffed out.
Can anyone explain why our rb's get hit in the backfield so often? I'm not saying we have allstar caliber running backs, but at the same time, I don't know any that can be successful when they're getting drilled 3 yards back every other run. Is this the fault of our OL? Our play design? I don't have the stats on hand, and I'm not going to make any up, but I recently heard the percentage of times our backs got hit in the backfield and it was staggering (don't remember the specific percentage, and not sure how to find it).
Even when we are getting blown out, it seems like almost every run we try and sneak in gets abruptly snuffed out.
If you watched last nite's game, then you might remember a comment by Collinsworth after CJ Andersen broke a stretch ZBS run for a fairly long gain. It was about one blocker handling the Pat's NT and how "once a big man gets moving laterally, he becomes easier to handle." All true...
Whether it's our predictability or lack of respect for our pass-game or something else, our opponents' DL seem to attack our ZBS. Quite often at least one of our interior three succumb to that "attack", get pushed into our backfield and a TFL occurs.
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