Nate Orchard is a bust.
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I'm not ready to declare Nate Orchard anything right now. I saw an article saying something like "Orchard thriving against the run", but I didn't read it. I'm sure it was an effort by the Browns' beat writers to find something positive, so Orchard probably had 4 tackles in one game and they are making a big deal about it. I think we'd all like to see Orchard have a breakout game, and grab a couple of sacks, force a fumble, or something like that. But he hasn't done anything that would lead me to believe he's a bust.
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I'm not ready to declare Nate Orchard anything right now. I saw an article saying something like "Orchard thriving against the run", but I didn't read it. I'm sure it was an effort by the Browns' beat writers to find something positive, so Orchard probably had 4 tackles in one game and they are making a big deal about it. I think we'd all like to see Orchard have a breakout game, and grab a couple of sacks, force a fumble, or something like that. But he hasn't done anything that would lead me to believe he's a bust.
I'm not ready to declare Nate Orchard anything right now............. I'm sure it was an effort by the Browns' beat writers to find something positive, so Orchard probably had 4 tackles in one game and they are making a big deal about it.....I think we'd all like to see Orchard have a breakout game, and grab a couple of sacks, force a fumble, or something like that. But he hasn't done anything that would lead me to believe he's a bust.
Agreed....in that I wouldnt say he's playing great.....BUT I would say he's our best OLB right now......and is playing better than the other guys....and is definitely making WAY more plays per snap then any of the others......
Which is, at least, a positive......his snaps are WAY up the last 5 games, so you know the coaches are liking his play too(though it is costing Kruger and Mingo a lot of playing time)
The sad part is that you mentioned him having 4 tackles in a game and, believe it or not, he is the ONLY OLB on the team that has 4 tackles in a game....(seriously)(that is not a lie)(he's the only one).......in fact, he has almost as many tackles in only 3 games, as Mingo & Kruger have gotten the whole season......which is more of an indictment of those 2.....(Im gonna say Mingo was better last year, when he had only one arm)
But, in re to him getting sacks?........its probably not gonna happen anytime soon, as they are pretty much using him(and Mingo) as cover backers, while Kruger and Armonty are getting all the rush opportunities......and if they send Orchard after the QB, then Kruger might cry about it and Armonty will be forced to cover and then we will hear about it for weeks to come......
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I'm not ready to declare Nate Orchard anything right now............. I'm sure it was an effort by the Browns' beat writers to find something positive, so Orchard probably had 4 tackles in one game and they are making a big deal about it.....I think we'd all like to see Orchard have a breakout game, and grab a couple of sacks, force a fumble, or something like that. But he hasn't done anything that would lead me to believe he's a bust.
Agreed....in that I wouldnt say he's playing great.....BUT I would say he's our best OLB right now......and is playing better than the other guys....and is definitely making WAY more plays per snap then any of the others......
Which is, at least, a positive......his snaps are WAY up the last 5 games, so you know the coaches are liking his play too(though it is costing Kruger and Mingo a lot of playing time)
The sad part is that you mentioned him having 4 tackles in a game and, believe it or not, he is the ONLY OLB on the team that has 4 tackles in a game....(seriously)(that is not a lie)(he's the only one).......in fact, he has almost as many tackles in only 3 games, as Mingo & Kruger have gotten the whole season......which is more of an indictment of those 2.....(Im gonna say Mingo was better last year, when he had only one arm)
But, in re to him getting sacks?........its probably not gonna happen anytime soon, as they are pretty much using him(and Mingo) as cover backers, while Kruger and Armonty are getting all the rush opportunities......and if they send Orchard after the QB, then Kruger might cry about it and Armonty will be forced to cover and then we will hear about it for weeks to come......
and if they send Orchard after the QB, then Kruger might cry about it and Armonty will be forced to cover and then we will hear about it for weeks to come......
and what? who the fuck cares if Krugers cryin about it? I doubt Pettine would. I want that dude on the trading block ASAP! I would be throwing him in with maybe JM to anybody with a top 10 pick next year. That stat you posted about Orchard being the only OLB'er with 4 tackles in a game is facepalming temple rubbing infuriating. I mean think about that, usually you pick up 1/2 tackle if you manage to swipe your hand on the runner as he's going down. Its saying how "not close" are edges are getting to the ball carriers.
And some of you are hesitant about drafting a kid who has done nothing but make tackles for losses his entire college career. I don't get it. You'd think people would be salivating over a run stopping machine that oh by the way, also has a tendency to murder QB's.
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and if they send Orchard after the QB, then Kruger might cry about it and Armonty will be forced to cover and then we will hear about it for weeks to come......
and what? who the fuck cares if Krugers cryin about it? I doubt Pettine would. I want that dude on the trading block ASAP! I would be throwing him in with maybe JM to anybody with a top 10 pick next year. That stat you posted about Orchard being the only OLB'er with 4 tackles in a game is facepalming temple rubbing infuriating. I mean think about that, usually you pick up 1/2 tackle if you manage to swipe your hand on the runner as he's going down. Its saying how "not close" are edges are getting to the ball carriers.
And some of you are hesitant about drafting a kid who has done nothing but make tackles for losses his entire college career. I don't get it. You'd think people would be salivating over a run stopping machine that oh by the way, also has a tendency to murder QB's.
That stat you posted about Orchard being the only OLB'er with 4 tackles in a game is facepalming temple rubbing infuriating.
I mean think about that, usually you pick up 1/2 tackle if you manage to swipe your hand on the runner as he's going down. Its saying how "not close" are edges are getting to the ball carriers.
Exactly how I feel...100%...it's beyond bad.......Kruger actually has 4 games without a single tackle(40%) and Mingo has 5(50%)......
How can your starting OLB's not get ANY tackles in half the games they play???......It;s completely insane......
Here's some fun stats to think about.....
Orchard gets a tackle every 15 snaps
Bryant gets a tackle every 21 snaps
Mingo gets a tackle every 22 snaps
Kruger gets a tackle every 44 snaps....
Which means, to me, that Orchard tackles at 3 times the efficiency that Kruger does,,,,,,and Mingo and Armonty are twice as efficient(and they arent even good)......(totally embarrassing)....Kruger should just be cut, not traded(in fact, I think we tried and had no takers)
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This is the same guy that had 11 sacks a year ago, right? I'm pretty sure if he's cut someone will pick him up the next day.
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This is the same guy that had 11 sacks a year ago, right? I'm pretty sure if he's cut someone will pick him up the next day.
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Sorry Cleve, but you're part of the problem here. This guy has shown the ability to, even on a losing team with little help from the other side, be a double digit sack guy. He's having a down season, clearly, but he's obviously got it in him to get to that level again, it's not like he's 35 and has diminishing physical skills or whatever.
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This is the same guy that had 11 sacks a year ago, right? I'm pretty sure if he's cut someone will pick him up the next day.
This is the same guy that had 11 sacks a year ago, right? I'm pretty sure if he's cut someone will pick him up the next day.
Yeah, Im sure someone would......Here are the 2 things Id point out...
#1) He is currently the fourth highest paid OLB in the league at $8m....but is ranked closer to 40th in tackles and sacks.....and dead last in coverage.....so, no one will trade for that contract and he is nowhere near worth it.....so, I say "cut" is the best answer..
#2) And, even though everyone wants to slay Pettine and Oneill for his play, that 11 sacks is the BEST he's ever had....and, in the 7 seasons he's played, he's had 32 sacks total....which is 4.5 per season......Yet, he wants to go public and blame his coaches for not using him right, when they are the ONLY ones who got him to double digit sacks to begin with......
Year before(with Horton) he had 4.....so, that 11 sacks is probably his "career season"......
And, being an OLB is a lot more than getting sacks......and he doesnt do ANY of the other stuff like cover, play the run, set the edge, etc......Really, you can send just about ANY OLB at the QB 500 times and get 11 sacks out of it....
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Sorry Cleve, but you're part of the problem here. This guy has shown the ability to, even on a losing team with little help from the other side, be a double digit sack guy. He's having a down season, clearly, but he's obviously got it in him to get to that level again, it's not like he's 35 and has diminishing physical skills or whatever.
This guy has shown the ability to, even on a losing team with little help from the other side, be a double digit sack guy. r.
Um...gotta debate this too.....because I went back and watched the games.....and Kruger benefitted GREATLY from Sheard pushing guys his way and from our DB's forcing the QB to hold the ball....
I counted only 4 sacks that I would say Kruger earned on his own(by beating his man)....the rest were coverage sacks, Sheard pushing his side of the pocket to Kruger and 2 that he was totally unblocked on.....
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I'll have to do the same and get back to you.
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Sorry Cleve, but you're part of the problem here. This guy has shown the ability to, even on a losing team with little help from the other side, be a double digit sack guy. He's having a down season, clearly, but he's obviously got it in him to get to that level again, it's not like he's 35 and has diminishing physical skills or whatever.
Sorry Cleve, but you're part of the problem here. This guy has shown the ability to, even on a losing team with little help from the other side, be a double digit sack guy. He's having a down season, clearly, but he's obviously got it in him to get to that level again, it's not like he's 35 and has diminishing physical skills or whatever.
No way dude, he's been going 1v1 the entire time he's been here. Not one time has any team felt the need to spend more than one blocker on him. Not once. Those 11 sacks last year are the quietest 11 sacks you'll ever see. Those were a lot of cleanup sacks from behind cause the QB held the ball too long. Everybody gets home eventually when a QB feels like he can sit in the pocket for 6-7 seconds.
About the diminishing skill set though, I mean i'm just not sure the proper pass rushing skills were ever there. He's made some plays in the league on just motor, so he has that....but the hand fighting, those "necessities" at being a competent edge rusher in this league were just never there. He had a good bullrush, that was it. Teams just started having their tackles setup for his bull and dare him to the outside. I've been writing about this for 3 years, he's never learned how to attack a tackles outside shoulder properly. He's been getting pushed around the 3 pt line for 3 years, now couple that with mudfly's stats about his tackling.....no he's done. I've been a supporter of his for 3 years, I've been saying he'll develop that outside rush y'all will see. Than we'll get our avg 12-15 sacks out of him.
Nope, never happened. Kids career might have been different if he went to a 4-3 team. But in any case he got his 8m contract and a hot peroxide blonde for a wife so he's set.
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Yeah, not sure what's up this year. Maybe we really do miss Sheard that much and shouldn't have let him go. Still, that kind of production shows what he's capable of and I don't think guys like that can be found on a street corner.
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Also it occurs to me that if we have Mingo and Orchard exclusively on non--pass-rush duties, and Kruger/Bryant on exclusively pass rushing duties, that may be a reason why our D is so porous. "Oh look, it's Kruger and Bryant, I think I'll audible to a run"
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Also it occurs to me that if we have Mingo and Orchard exclusively on non--pass-rush duties, and Kruger/Bryant on exclusively pass rushing duties, that may be a reason why our D is so porous. "Oh look, it's Kruger and Bryant, I think I'll audible to a run"
Also it occurs to me that if we have Mingo and Orchard exclusively on non--pass-rush duties, and Kruger/Bryant on exclusively pass rushing duties, that may be a reason why our D is so porous. "Oh look, it's Kruger and Bryant, I think I'll audible to a run"
Now you're talking what Ive been talking about for a month because the coaches "tried" to mix it up and then got completely slammed for doing so........
IE: They rushed Orchard and Mingo a few times, which left Armonty and Kruger to cover.....which caused a million people to freak out, made Kruger start crying to the press, and folks to start saying the coach was "mis-using" his talent and calling stupid plays, yada yada yada, etc etc etc....
And, since we cant get to the QB, we've also tried some CB and Safety blitzes, which have left us exposed.....and has caused a lot of negativity toward the coaches again....but I see it as them just TRYING to find a way to get to the QB.....BUT, unfortunately, when we try something else, it means our OLB's have to assume a different role and they aren't able to do that and the good QB's just expose those weaknesses over and over again......
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Why would rushing Mingo/Orchard leave Armonty/Kruger in coverage? They're not playing all four at any time, right?
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So maybe, just maybe, a 3-down OLB (or two) would help...
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Also it occurs to me that if we have Mingo and Orchard exclusively on non--pass-rush duties, and Kruger/Bryant on exclusively pass rushing duties, that may be a reason why our D is so porous. "Oh look, it's Kruger and Bryant, I think I'll audible to a run"
Now you're talking what Ive been talking about for a month because the coaches "tried" to mix it up and then got completely slammed for doing so........
IE: They rushed Orchard and Mingo a few times, which left Armonty and Kruger to cover.....which caused a million people to freak out, made Kruger start crying to the press, and folks to start saying the coach was "mis-using" his talent and calling stupid plays, yada yada yada, etc etc etc....
And, since we cant get to the QB, we've also tried some CB and Safety blitzes, which have left us exposed.....and has caused a lot of negativity toward the coaches again....but I see it as them just TRYING to find a way to get to the QB.....BUT, unfortunately, when we try something else, it means our OLB's have to assume a different role and they aren't able to do that and the good QB's just expose those weaknesses over and over again......
IE: They rushed Orchard and Mingo a few times, which left Armonty and Kruger to cover.....which caused a million people to freak out,
and rightfully so right? I mean if you have Mingo/Orchard on one side and your jack OLB'er on the other, and you rush your weak side LB'er...than it's almost like a 4-3 blitzing OLB'er if you played with 3 down lineman. Normally if teams drop their strong side OLB'er into coverage it's in zone...not man coverage. And that I think would be fine, Kruger could do that.
But did you notice what they were running to start the season when Soloman was playing? They were running a straight 4-3 with Soloman as the DE on one side and Kruger would be standing up on the other close to the line so almost 5 guys on the line. So Kruger was playing some kind of 4-3 OLB'er. So the plan had to have been from the beginning to put Kruger in coverage more and not just some anomalous part of special rush packages.
And that is just mind boggling to me. Like why the fuck is pettine allowing Oneil to dipshit the defense like that? I know i'm still a pettine supporter but mainly be default cause we can't fire another coach after 2 years without tanking the franchise. But that grace on my part runs out next year if we're still seeing the same stupid shit personnel alignments. Especially if we draft Bosa and Pettne gets it in his head he'd make a great free safety or some stupid shit i'll be done with ole mikey.
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well, depends on the O alignment, but we pretty much rush one and drop one almost every time....and it is predictable...
Kruger has 250 rushes vs 49 cover plays
Armonty is 185 to 30.....
But Orchard and Mingo both have more cover than rush......
Which makes everything very predictable......
So maybe, just maybe, a 3-down OLB (or two) would help...
And, you and I are on the same page here.....
right now, we have 4 pass rushing LB's(all converted DE's, btw) and zero that are really "cover" guys or run stoppers.....
YES....give me a couple three down backers please......(Orchard looks like he could be one of em though)
Edit....Cleve.....Kruger hasnt rushed any more than he did last year or the year before....the #'s are basically identical......
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I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Kruger drop out of the rotation for a while, seeing what Orchard & Mingo can do in pass rush/stuff/coverage duties, since they both have multiple tools, while Bryant concentrates on rushing the passer.
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