Nate Orchard is a bust.
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well, depends on the O alignment, but we pretty much rush one and drop one almost every time....and it is predictable...
Kruger has 250 rushes vs 49 cover plays
Armonty is 185 to 30.....
But Orchard and Mingo both have more cover than rush......
Which makes everything very predictable......
So maybe, just maybe, a 3-down OLB (or two) would help...
And, you and I are on the same page here.....
right now, we have 4 pass rushing LB's(all converted DE's, btw) and zero that are really "cover" guys or run stoppers.....
YES....give me a couple three down backers please......(Orchard looks like he could be one of em though)
Edit....Cleve.....Kruger hasnt rushed any more than he did last year or the year before....the #'s are basically identical......
And, you and I are on the same page here.....
right now, we have 4 pass rushing LB's(all converted DE's, btw) and zero that are really "cover" guys or run stoppers.....
YES....give me a couple three down backers please......(Orchard looks like he could be one of em though)
... and we've only been saying this for two years and counting.
I agree on Orchard. And again I think it is worth noting that here is a player that has grown into Pet/O'Neil's system.
On Kruger... am I the only one that thinks he looks slower and less agile than he did last year?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
And, you and I are on the same page here.....
right now, we have 4 pass rushing LB's(all converted DE's, btw) and zero that are really "cover" guys or run stoppers.....
YES....give me a couple three down backers please......(Orchard looks like he could be one of em though)
... and we've only been saying this for two years and counting.
I agree on Orchard. And again I think it is worth noting that here is a player that has grown into Pet/O'Neil's system.
On Kruger... am I the only one that thinks he looks slower and less agile than he did last year?
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That stat you posted about Orchard being the only OLB'er with 4 tackles in a game is facepalming temple rubbing infuriating.
I mean think about that, usually you pick up 1/2 tackle if you manage to swipe your hand on the runner as he's going down. Its saying how "not close" are edges are getting to the ball carriers.
Exactly how I feel...100%...it's beyond bad.......Kruger actually has 4 games without a single tackle(40%) and Mingo has 5(50%)......
How can your starting OLB's not get ANY tackles in half the games they play???......It;s completely insane......
Here's some fun stats to think about.....
Orchard gets a tackle every 15 snaps
Bryant gets a tackle every 21 snaps
Mingo gets a tackle every 22 snaps
Kruger gets a tackle every 44 snaps....
Which means, to me, that Orchard tackles at 3 times the efficiency that Kruger does,,,,,,and Mingo and Armonty are twice as efficient(and they arent even good)......(totally embarrassing)....Kruger should just be cut, not traded(in fact, I think we tried and had no takers)
Exactly how I feel...100%...it's beyond bad.......Kruger actually has 4 games without a single tackle(40%) and Mingo has 5(50%)......
How can your starting OLB's not get ANY tackles in half the games they play???......It;s completely insane......
Here's some fun stats to think about.....
Orchard gets a tackle every 15 snaps
Bryant gets a tackle every 21 snaps
Mingo gets a tackle every 22 snaps
Kruger gets a tackle every 44 snaps....
Which means, to me, that Orchard tackles at 3 times the efficiency that Kruger does,,,,,,and Mingo and Armonty are twice as efficient(and they arent even good)......(totally embarrassing)....Kruger should just be cut, not traded(in fact, I think we tried and had no takers)
OMG...I had NO idea about Kruger's stats. Wouldn't he accidentally get four tackles every other game? One tackle every 44 snaps?!! How does that compare to other OLB's? Actually...I probably don't want to know. Somebody else mentioned how slow Kruger appears, and I have to agree. While never a burner, I've seen several plays involving Kruger where he was trucking after a ball carrier, and he had NO CHANCE of catching anybody.
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Bottom line on the last 6 pages of conversation that I have perused:
Consensus opionion: Our defensive coaching staff doesn't have a fucking clue on how to use the players at their disposal.
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Bottom line on the last 6 pages of conversation that I have perused:
Consensus opionion: Our defensive coaching staff doesn't have a fucking clue on how to use the players at their disposal.
Bottom line on the last 6 pages of conversation that I have perused:
Consensus opionion: Our defensive coaching staff doesn't have a fucking clue on how to use the players at their disposal.
You obviously didnt read those 6 pages.......
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Bottom line on the last 6 pages of conversation that I have perused:
Consensus opionion: Our defensive coaching staff doesn't have a fucking clue on how to use the players at their disposal.
You obviously didnt read those 6 pages.......
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how is he slower since they dropped weight off him and expected him to do more cover work? how does that work? In any case....I don't want this 3-4 crap next year. Put 4 big mooks on the line with edges that can stop the run and pressure the QB. Have 3 good LB'ers that can tackle and go out in coverage. Need a wild card blitzer? Bring Mingo to the line and disguise whether he's rushing or dropping. Mingo's better rushing when he has a few steps before he hits the line anyway. That's what our defense is built for right now.
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I know it's not fair to judge Orchard by one play, but he missed a pretty big tackle on a swing pass, and he wasn't even closes. Gruden called him out pretty badly for it, too. It wasn't an easy play, but Nate didn't even slow the guy down. Ugh.
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All the missed tackles were mind boggling.......13 missed tackles......WOW!!!!....(and, THAT is on the players and their effort)
Of course, Im not too surprised.....been saying this all along.....these OLB's completely suck rocks.....
Kruger(1), Orchard(1), Mingo(1) and Armonty(0) all COMBINED for 3 fucking tackles the whole game..........3....
Thats not even a good game for one LB, let alone 4 of them......it's disgusting and pathetic
Really....it's as if they aren't even in the game......
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Kruger, Mingo, Bryant, and Orchard combined for 3 tackles? I mean...wow. I don't even know how that is possible. They really are THAT bad, and the bigger issue is...how in the heck do you replace your entire linebacking corp in one season? I guess you don't, and it's a process. Maybe we need someone like Bosa more than I thought we did. People can scream all they want to about a quarterback, but if you don't have anyone on defense that can make a damn tackle, it doesn't matter who is throwing the ball.
Aside from the horrific tackling last night, I thought our pass rush was incredibly awful. We tried several different ways to create pressure, and almost NONE of them worked. I believe that on one of Schuab's interceptions we got some good middle pressure, but I honestly don't remember. I just have visions of our defenders just being swallowed up by their line, and that being the end of it. The one play that sticks out in my mind is when Terence West perfectly picked up a blitzing Brown. I believe it was Whitner, but I'm not sure. I would hope our guy would blow West apart, but it didn't happen.
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Right.....we didnt even touch their QB or put any hits on him.....zippo.....nada....nyet.......
So he had all day to find a receiver.......not really rocket science here.....
In fairness to the team though, had our Special Teams not failed so miserably and given up 2 TD's, we wouldacouldashoulda won.....
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Get rid of Kruger and Soloman. Give Orchard one more year. Tell Armonty to go back to DE weight and draft Bosa. Maybe bring that Dylan Wynn kid back as depth, he showed some promise in preseason. Just go back to a 4-3. Mingo might even show us something as a blitzing 4-3 olb'er who could be a major problem for teams in coverage.
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I know it's not fair to judge Orchard by one play, but he missed a pretty big tackle on a swing pass, and he wasn't even closes. Gruden called him out pretty badly for it, too. It wasn't an easy play, but Nate didn't even slow the guy down. Ugh.
I know it's not fair to judge Orchard by one play, but he missed a pretty big tackle on a swing pass, and he wasn't even closes. Gruden called him out pretty badly for it, too. It wasn't an easy play, but Nate didn't even slow the guy down. Ugh.
In my mind there are side by side images of plays from our MNF game and the SNF Pats/Broncos' game.
- Both are swing passes to the right flat to RBs (the Ravens' Allen and the Broncos' Hilliard).
- Both are closed upon by LBs (our Orchard and the Pats' Hightower).
- In our game Nate never sets, gets juked and virtually whiffs as the RB runs for a 1st down.
- In the Pats' game, Hightower breaks down, awaits the RB's move and makes an ankle tackle far short of the line to gain.
The main difference is position coaching.
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I know it's not fair to judge Orchard by one play, but he missed a pretty big tackle on a swing pass, and he wasn't even closes. Gruden called him out pretty badly for it, too. It wasn't an easy play, but Nate didn't even slow the guy down. Ugh.
In my mind there are side by side images of plays from our MNF game and the SNF Pats/Broncos' game.
- Both are swing passes to the right flat to RBs (the Ravens' Allen and the Broncos' Hilliard).
- Both are closed upon by LBs (our Orchard and the Pats' Hightower).
- In our game Nate never sets, gets juked and virtually whiffs as the RB runs for a 1st down.
- In the Pats' game, Hightower breaks down, awaits the RB's move and makes an ankle tackle far short of the line to gain.
The main difference is position coaching.
I know it's not fair to judge Orchard by one play, but he missed a pretty big tackle on a swing pass, and he wasn't even closes. Gruden called him out pretty badly for it, too. It wasn't an easy play, but Nate didn't even slow the guy down. Ugh.
In my mind there are side by side images of plays from our MNF game and the SNF Pats/Broncos' game.
- Both are swing passes to the right flat to RBs (the Ravens' Allen and the Broncos' Hilliard).
- Both are closed upon by LBs (our Orchard and the Pats' Hightower).
- In our game Nate never sets, gets juked and virtually whiffs as the RB runs for a 1st down.
- In the Pats' game, Hightower breaks down, awaits the RB's move and makes an ankle tackle far short of the line to gain.
The main difference is position coaching.
the fucking gm is a bust...deal with it..he knows absolutely nothing about talent....
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I know it's not fair to judge Orchard by one play, but he missed a pretty big tackle on a swing pass, and he wasn't even closes. Gruden called him out pretty badly for it, too. It wasn't an easy play, but Nate didn't even slow the guy down. Ugh.
In my mind there are side by side images of plays from our MNF game and the SNF Pats/Broncos' game.
- Both are swing passes to the right flat to RBs (the Ravens' Allen and the Broncos' Hilliard).
- Both are closed upon by LBs (our Orchard and the Pats' Hightower).
- In our game Nate never sets, gets juked and virtually whiffs as the RB runs for a 1st down.
- In the Pats' game, Hightower breaks down, awaits the RB's move and makes an ankle tackle far short of the line to gain.
The main difference is position coaching.
the fucking gm is a bust...deal with it..he knows absolutely nothing about talent....
the fucking gm is a bust...deal with it..he knows absolutely nothing about talent....
The only bust here is Mike Pettine.
Deal with it.
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Would SOMEONE PLEASE list the Browns' players, drafted by Farmer or before, who have played at a higher level this year? Farmer has NOT drafted or signed them all, but Pettine & staff HAVE coached them all, with a regression in performance & results folks. Scheme, fundamentals, & on field discipline suck!
Sorry, but I'm calling "common denominator" here, & that is the coaching.......High School Mike needs to go home.
Mike
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Would SOMEONE PLEASE list the Browns' players, drafted by Farmer or before, who have played at a higher level this year? Farmer has NOT drafted or signed them all, but Pettine & staff HAVE coached them all, with a regression in performance & results folks. Scheme, fundamentals, & on field discipline suck!
Sorry, but I'm calling "common denominator" here, & that is the coaching.......High School Mike needs to go home.
Mike
Would SOMEONE PLEASE list the Browns' players, drafted by Farmer or before, who have played at a higher level this year? Farmer has NOT drafted or signed them all, but Pettine & staff HAVE coached them all, with a regression in performance & results folks. Scheme, fundamentals, & on field discipline suck!
Sorry, but I'm calling "common denominator" here, & that is the coaching.......High School Mike needs to go home.
Manziel, Schwartz, Benji, maybe Gabe... Not as sure about D, but maybe Des B., K'waun, Desir.
Now your turn... list pre-Pet Browns that have played worse this and last year than they did under Chud/Patsy...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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