Austin Davis named starter against Bungles...
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Zombo my Irish brother sober up! Half the fuckers on this board hate Johnny! Probably a third of them hate the Browns! At least that's how it seems.Zombo said:
Does someone hate Johnny?
I'm not feeling that. Not amongst any reasonable posters.
Favre went into rehab in 1996 before the season and then played the best football of his life.
Hopefully Johnny does the same after his second stint.
Zombo
WSS
Zombo my Irish brother sober up! Half the fuckers on this board hate Johnny! Probably a third of them hate the fucking Browns!
WSS
Do they hate him, or are they frustrated with him?
I don't remember a big backlash against the kid until he spent his entire rookie year unprepared and uncommitted. Now he gets handed the opportunity of a lifetime and before the bye week is over he loses it by lying to the Browns.
I actually like the guy ... I just feel sorry for him. He is wasting his talents. Hoping he gets it turned around.
In the meantime, I hope Austin Davis takes this opportunity to show that he was a hidden gem ... we could use a story like that. We are due.
Zombo
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Zombo said:
Davis is going to light it up. We will get Hawk back, hopefully, to share the underneath stuff with Hartline, while Benji and Barny continue on their 1,000 yard plus paces. Pepper in some Terrelle Pryor and we are going to be just a pass-happy machine the rest of the way. Not like we have a running game.
AD is going to light it up!
Throw in an intro to Glenn Winston and THAT's what I call a plan...
So.....with all the public issues relating to drinking, Goodel could add alcohol to Johnnys banned list at his own discretion...
And....Brett Favre?.....not the same in my eyes, at all.....biggest difference?.....Favre got it straight by year 2 and was playing well... .and the even bigger difference was that Farve was a really good player.....
Goodel does a lot of things that end up not sticking...
As for Favre... forgot about his rehab stint... painkillers as I recall.
I'm not a "hater" when it comes to him either, but I have an issue with the concept of a 1st-ballot, HOF QB who averaged over one INT per game and threw over 3 picks for every 5 TD throws. The guy was simply a loose-cannon gunslinger.
Twice in his career he had teammates explain to him that he did not have to do everything for the team to win: '96 by Reggie White and '09 with AP. The results were two of his better years and his only SB.
I think he prevented more SB victories than he won.
I'm not a "hater" when it comes to him either, but I have an issue with the concept of a 1st-ballot, HOF QB who averaged over one INT per game and threw over 3 picks for every 5 TD throws. The guy was simply a loose-cannon gunslinger.
Ha!....just one more thing we agree on....
His interception record will NEVER be broken....ever....
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Fuck, I'd forgotten about Glenn Winston. Why the fuck haven't we seen him get a carry at all? I mean, it's not like Crowell has been lighting it up, running for 150 100 75 50 yards and 3 2 1 TDs a first down every game.
Fuck, I'd forgotten about Glenn Winston. Why the fuck haven't we seen him get a carry at all? I mean, it's not like Crowell has been lighting it up, running for 150 100 75 50 yards and 3 2 1 TDs a first down every game.
I don't think Crow has had a 50 yard game in a long time. It is usually under 20 lately.
Zombo
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Zombo my Irish brother sober up! Half the fuckers on this board hate Johnny! Probably a third of them hate the fucking Browns!
WSS
Do they hate him, or are they frustrated with him?
I don't remember a big backlash against the kid until he spent his entire rookie year unprepared and uncommitted. Now he gets handed the opportunity of a lifetime and before the bye week is over he loses it by lying to the Browns.
I actually like the guy ... I just feel sorry for him. He is wasting his talents. Hoping he gets it turned around.
In the meantime, I hope Austin Davis takes this opportunity to show that he was a hidden gem ... we could use a story like that. We are due.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Do they hate him, or are they frustrated with him?
Right....I know I dont hate him.....i just hate the shit storm he has brought to this team and the fact that he hasnt performed....
And I hate both of those things.....a lot!....and the longer it goes on, the more I hate it.....
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Zombo my Irish brother sober up! Half the fuckers on this board hate Johnny! Probably a third of them hate the fucking Browns!
WSS
Do they hate him, or are they frustrated with him?
I don't remember a big backlash against the kid until he spent his entire rookie year unprepared and uncommitted. Now he gets handed the opportunity of a lifetime and before the bye week is over he loses it by lying to the Browns.
I actually like the guy ... I just feel sorry for him. He is wasting his talents. Hoping he gets it turned around.
In the meantime, I hope Austin Davis takes this opportunity to show that he was a hidden gem ... we could use a story like that. We are due.
Zombo
I have nothing against Austin Davis. It seems to me, though I see you disagree, that the Johnny hate begin early. I mean seriously we probably had dozens if not hundreds of posts about the completely meaningless money sign. At least hundreds about partying issues that were no more substantial. I remember one outrage being posted that there were pictures of him holding a champagne bottle without a shirt. On New Years Eve in Florida. Come on...Zombo said:
Do they hate him, or are they frustrated with him?
I don't remember a big backlash against the kid until he spent his entire rookie year unprepared and uncommitted. Now he gets handed the opportunity of a lifetime and before the bye week is over he loses it by lying to the Browns.
I actually like the guy ... I just feel sorry for him. He is wasting his talents. Hoping he gets it turned around.
In the meantime, I hope Austin Davis takes this opportunity to show that he was a hidden gem ... we could use a story like that. We are due.
Zombo
And I'll repeat he's done nothing this year that seems to me to have affected his progress or play.
I guess some of the fans here don't think it sounds ridiculous to say they like the kid and want to see him succeed but on the other hand don't want him to ever take the field.
TMZ outrageous behavior, if that's what anyone really thinks it is, wouldn't even be noticed if it were any other player.
I know I sound like a broken record but...
WSS
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All I knew about John before the draft was he won the Heisman. I never saw him play. Then I saw his douchey pro day, then I saw a few interviews and then I saw him free fall in the draft, and finally I saw the Browns pick him.......... All good, no opinion either way really because I had not seen him play, but if I'm being completely honest, I probably had the opinion he was a douchbag kind of a kid.
Then came the onslaught of Johnny Football Fans to this forum. They were loud, aggressive and douchbag like in their fanaticism of young John. They proclaimed him the best thing to ever happen to the Browns, and we were lucky to have him.
Well, that turned me against young John very quickly,...... Bad on my part? Maybe. Maybe not. However, I doubt I'm alone in feeling this way, and how I got there, and by that I mean BROWNS FANS, and not the fan-of-a-dude fans.
Then John proved my personal opinion of him correct by his actions on and off the field for the 2 years he's been a member of the Browns. I don't share the opinion of some, that a player can do whatever he wants off the field as long as he performs on it. John is John, and no stint at a Malibu rehab facility will fix that. He is who he is, and speaking for me, and me alone - I don't like him.
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Fuck, I'd forgotten about Glenn Winston. Why the fuck haven't we seen him get a carry at all? I mean, it's not like Crowell has been lighting it up, running for 150 100 75 50 yards and 3 2 1 TDs a first down every game.
Fuck, I'd forgotten about Glenn Winston. Why the fuck haven't we seen him get a carry at all? I mean, it's not like Crowell has been lighting it up, running for 150 100 75 50 yards and 3 2 1 TDs a first down every game.
I honestly thought we'd have seen him last week. Not sure why we did not.
Zombo said:
Do they hate him, or are they frustrated with him?
I don't remember a big backlash against the kid until he spent his entire rookie year unprepared and uncommitted.
Po-lar-i-za-tion... that and the need to label those that disagree... labelling being a lot easier than understanding.
The route to being labelled a hater started Day 1 of the draft. To complete Step 1 all you had to do was not love the pick.
Step 2 was equally easy... simply predict that Hoyer would start Game 1 and have the audacity to defend your prediction. Ditto for McCown...
Step 3 was easiest of all... simply be right about step 2.... twice... Did not even have to rub it in.
Oddest thing of all about the hater label is its indelibility.
Even recognizing Hoyer's 2014 downward spiral and the need to make a change...
Even giving credit for the development to date in 2015... until the Bye week.
That hater stink just won't come off... maybe tomato juice?
I know I sound like a broken record but...
In that a broken record "skips" and every time to claim to restate what you said you skip the part where JM lied?
Have I mentioned that I love vinyl?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Fuck, I'd forgotten about Glenn Winston. Why the fuck haven't we seen him get a carry at all? I mean, it's not like Crowell has been lighting it up, running for 150 100 75 50 yards and 3 2 1 TDs a first down every game.
I honestly thought we'd have seen him last week. Not sure why we did not.
Zombo said:
Do they hate him, or are they frustrated with him?
I don't remember a big backlash against the kid until he spent his entire rookie year unprepared and uncommitted.
Po-lar-i-za-tion... that and the need to label those that disagree... labelling being a lot easier than understanding.
The route to being labelled a hater started Day 1 of the draft. To complete Step 1 all you had to do was not love the pick.
Step 2 was equally easy... simply predict that Hoyer would start Game 1 and have the audacity to defend your prediction. Ditto for McCown...
Step 3 was easiest of all... simply be right about step 2.... twice... Did not even have to rub it in.
Oddest thing of all about the hater label is its indelibility.
Even recognizing Hoyer's 2014 downward spiral and the need to make a change...
Even giving credit for the development to date in 2015... until the Bye week.
That hater stink just won't come off... maybe tomato juice?
I know I sound like a broken record but...
In that a broken record "skips" and every time to claim to restate what you said you skip the part where JM lied?
Have I mentioned that I love vinyl?
Yes he lied about bullshit. He shouldn't have but oh well. Probably worth being sat down for Monday Night Football.I honestly thought we'd have seen him last week. Not sure why we did not.
Po-lar-i-za-tion... that and the need to label those that disagree... labelling being a lot easier than understanding.
The route to being labelled a hater started Day 1 of the draft. To complete Step 1 all you had to do was not love the pick.
Step 2 was equally easy... simply predict that Hoyer would start Game 1 and have the audacity to defend your prediction. Ditto for McCown...
Step 3 was easiest of all... simply be right about step 2.... twice... Did not even have to rub it in.
Oddest thing of all about the hater label is its indelibility.
Even recognizing Hoyer's 2014 downward spiral and the need to make a change...
Even giving credit for the development to date in 2015... until the Bye week.
That hater stink just won't come off... maybe tomato juice?
In that a broken record "skips" and every time to claim to restate what you said you skip the part where JM lied?
Have I mentioned that I love vinyl?
Of course labeling is easier than understanding. I'm too lazy but if you'd care to go back over the last couple years and count up the numbers of Johnny fucktard or Johnny clipboard or Johnny shithead or whatever the fuck the, uh, fans have been using.
Fanboy, faggots or haters. Not the first time these labels have been used.
And as I've said this is just a culmination of pets apparent distaste for the guy. Most quarterback busts play their way out of a job.
And though this isn't the spot for it, vinyl sucks and those that love it are just being stubborn Luddites.
But I still love you tour.
WSS
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ps when I brought up the fact that many of these guys supported insubordination when it was Saint Bernard Flugels went ballistic on me!
WSS
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So what has changed about Crow? That guy had a serious nose for the end zone last year, and this year it's been ANYTHING but. Hell, we used to run the ball into the end zone with frequency. If we were in the red zone, we seemed to punch it in. Now, whenever we try to run in the red zone, it's the squish special. We have the same exact personnel as last year (when Bitonio was playing), yet we can't punch the damn ball in. We try zone stretch, "power" formation, inside, outside...NOTHING works. Can anybody explain that? Can an offensive line coach really have that much sway on the performance of our running game? I don't get it. And is it just me, or does Crow get drilled by the first guy EVERY TIME?
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He's been coached by Pettine and crew for too long.
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So what has changed about Crow? That guy had a serious nose for the end zone last year, and this year it's been ANYTHING but. Hell, we used to run the ball into the end zone with frequency. If we were in the red zone, we seemed to punch it in. Now, whenever we try to run in the red zone, it's the squish special. We have the same exact personnel as last year (when Bitonio was playing), yet we can't punch the damn ball in. We try zone stretch, "power" formation, inside, outside...NOTHING works. Can anybody explain that? Can an offensive line coach really have that much sway on the performance of our running game? I don't get it. And is it just me, or does Crow get drilled by the first guy EVERY TIME?
So what has changed about Crow? That guy had a serious nose for the end zone last year, and this year it's been ANYTHING but. Hell, we used to run the ball into the end zone with frequency.
Working off recall here, which is always dangerous for me, but last year I think or tendency was to run ZBS between the 20's (excepting short yardage) and power runs everywhere else. Not absolutely, but I remember that being the tendency. Amazingly an OG trap play was at the heart of our goal-line offense. Certainly pre-Mack injury, we ran both schemes at about the same, fairly high level. Anyway Crow's nose was in serious sync with our tendency.
To my eye Crow was our best power back running downhill to the predetermined hole... perhaps adjusting slightly and occasionally bouncing an inside run all the way outside. But he was close to, if not, the worst ZBS which requires a patient, unhurried gear and great vision as the OL sorts things out on the move.
This year we aren't running either blocking scheme all that well. Designed power run holes are often simply not there. But we have produced ZBS "holes" (creases really) that have been missed including full on cutbacks like you may have seen CJ Anderson hit vs. the Pats this past Sunday.
Then there are other factors discussed other places... poor FB blocking... poor TE blocking.
Bottom line: I don't think Crow's game is off much from last year.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Nothing against Austin Davis but I really hoped 2016 wouldn't be Manziel/Davis/Draft Pick as the QBs on the Browns opening day roster. Circus still in town
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So what has changed about Crow? That guy had a serious nose for the end zone last year, and this year it's been ANYTHING but. Hell, we used to run the ball into the end zone with frequency.
Working off recall here, which is always dangerous for me, but last year I think or tendency was to run ZBS between the 20's (excepting short yardage) and power runs everywhere else. Not absolutely, but I remember that being the tendency. Amazingly an OG trap play was at the heart of our goal-line offense. Certainly pre-Mack injury, we ran both schemes at about the same, fairly high level. Anyway Crow's nose was in serious sync with our tendency.
To my eye Crow was our best power back running downhill to the predetermined hole... perhaps adjusting slightly and occasionally bouncing an inside run all the way outside. But he was close to, if not, the worst ZBS which requires a patient, unhurried gear and great vision as the OL sorts things out on the move.
This year we aren't running either blocking scheme all that well. Designed power run holes are often simply not there. But we have produced ZBS "holes" (creases really) that have been missed including full on cutbacks like you may have seen CJ Anderson hit vs. the Pats this past Sunday.
Then there are other factors discussed other places... poor FB blocking... poor TE blocking.
Bottom line: I don't think Crow's game is off much from last year.
we have produced ZBS "holes" (creases really) that have been missed including full on cutbacks like you may have seen CJ Anderson hit vs. the Pats this past Sunday.
Then there are other factors discussed other places... poor FB blocking... poor TE blocking.
Bottom line: I don't think Crow's game is off much from last year.
To my untrained eye, crow is all power and 0 vision. Every week I scream at the TV hoping he somehow hears me telling him to cutback to the other side of the field for a big gain.. I would rather go Johnson/Winston at this point..
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So what has changed about Crow? That guy had a serious nose for the end zone last year, and this year it's been ANYTHING but. Hell, we used to run the ball into the end zone with frequency.
Working off recall here, which is always dangerous for me, but last year I think or tendency was to run ZBS between the 20's (excepting short yardage) and power runs everywhere else. Not absolutely, but I remember that being the tendency. Amazingly an OG trap play was at the heart of our goal-line offense. Certainly pre-Mack injury, we ran both schemes at about the same, fairly high level. Anyway Crow's nose was in serious sync with our tendency.
To my eye Crow was our best power back running downhill to the predetermined hole... perhaps adjusting slightly and occasionally bouncing an inside run all the way outside. But he was close to, if not, the worst ZBS which requires a patient, unhurried gear and great vision as the OL sorts things out on the move.
This year we aren't running either blocking scheme all that well. Designed power run holes are often simply not there. But we have produced ZBS "holes" (creases really) that have been missed including full on cutbacks like you may have seen CJ Anderson hit vs. the Pats this past Sunday.
Then there are other factors discussed other places... poor FB blocking... poor TE blocking.
Bottom line: I don't think Crow's game is off much from last year.
To my eye Crow was our best power back running downhill to the predetermined hole... perhaps adjusting slightly and occasionally bouncing an inside run all the way outside. But he was close to, if not, the worst ZBS which requires a patient, unhurried gear and great vision as the OL sorts things out on the move.
Then there are other factors discussed other places... poor FB blocking... poor TE blocking.
Bottom line: I don't think Crow's game is off much from last year.
Downhill runner is a great description....though this years hill is so steep, he keeps falling down(it).....
I see a lack of patience to wait for the opening.....to my eye, he runs up the backs of his OL too often and there is often a glaring hole that he's not filling....a little "wait and see" might allow him to find those openings....
Reminds me a bit of a Richardson pic that was circulating a while back.....him ramming into his line, just right of the grand canyon...
To my untrained eye, crow is all power and 0 vision. Every week I scream at the TV hoping he somehow hears me telling him to cutback to the other side of the field for a big gain.. I would rather go Johnson/Winston at this point..
Not too much power though....as he's so downhill he falls forward, rather than breaking tackles....(I scream at the TV too)
Zombo said:
Crows stats are just horrendous...... Time to start Duke and Winston.
Right,,,,they are.....
Last 6 games Crows average gain is 1.8 yd per carry.......Dukes is 3.2 yd per carry.....seems Duke can get a lil more out of nothing...
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Great posts, and sorry to hijack the thread.
I forget the specific game, but we had it first and goal at like the 2 yard line. We ended up turning it over on downs (a theme with us), and on the 3rd down play, I remember a writer providing some still shots that showed Crow simply not following the lead blocker. The author stated, as did Pettine later, that Crow would've "walked in" for the score, but as Mud and others have pointed out, he slams right into the wall and misses the grand canyon.
Apparently Mack hasn't been playing well this year, at least not to the high standard we were accustomed to. From what I heard on our radio show, Adam Schefter or another national guy stated Mack was playing at such an unbelievably high level before his injury, and that was the leading reason for our early rushing success. Still, Mack is one player, and that doesn't excuse why we can't get ANYTHING going on the ground. How many times do our backs get hit in the backfield? Are we too predictable? Do defenses know we are running when they see specific personnel groupings? Something is very wrong here, and it's not fair to whichever QB is in the game to know they have to do everything in the air. Especially when you consider we don't have elite targets to throw to.
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Mack is "one player", but he's at the linchpin position, and for the better part of this season he played no better than those that tried to replace him in 2014. I cannot recall Mack getting blown into the backfield in 2014. It happened a couple times a game in 2015.
I remember the Crow run you described. The hole was off-tackle to the left of where Crow burrowed into the line. Pretty sure it was the subject of one of my photo, play breakdowns this season, but can't find the pics.
As for MJ's lead blocks... there were more times that MJ picked the wrong hole than the RB following him did.
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Found the Crow run... was the 3rd down play in a goal-line, series analysis I did in the Raiders game.
Third down: The pinnacle of this fail...
Pre-snap I was doing the formation notes and box count...
I-formation, 2TE-right, 1WR-left... 9 in the box...
What's wrong with this picture???
Did you catch it? Yup... OAK had only 10 on the field. I told you this was bad...
Our next and last look at the play is after the handoff at Crow's decision point. He has two holes before him. Bottom to top we have:
- Thomas driving Aldon Smith out;
- Bito escorting his opposite out of the play altogether;
- Mack and MJ (to this side) in a double-team that drives the NT into the endzone.
- Greco sealing off two in the endzone; and
- Mitch reverse sealing the right side of the D.
One D is unaccounted for... an LB that is stacked behind the NT being double-teamed. Which hole do you choose? Crow chose to cut into the right-hand hole where the ILB can meet him head on... which he does, standing Crow up until help comes from the right side's mosh pit.
The left hand hole not only provided an angle to power through the ILB it was away from almost all potential help. It seemed to me to be the better choice. Might even burrow in behind the double-team.
At any rate Crow went right... I put this one on him. This was not the only questionable vision displayed Sunday by our RBs.
The full series analysis is here: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=38152&hl=anatomy
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