Haslam calls mtg with upper management tonight
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This team sucks. Period. I dont think they're well coached, per se, but I don't know what you can do with a bunch of unwanted QBs, dwarf WRs, aging LBers, and a secondary that may not be objectively bad but has to cover guys for eons.
The draft picks have been a D Minus at best under Farmer, and what acquisitions have helped this team?
Are you really telling me this is a playoff caliber team from a talent perspective? Ridiculous.
Thus team is fucking garbage from a personnel perspective. I think Farmer's built a shitty team.
Well, unfortunately, we don't know if your opinion is true or not...because the best players aren't seeing the field.
Well, unfortunately, we don't know if your opinion is true or not...because the best players aren't seeing the field.
Considering Benji got hurt in short order- might have been wise to not sit Pryor.
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Promote Flip... lmao... the guy's been an OC for 15 minutes.
TC,
Who do you think is responsible for the O-line underperformance? the RB underperformance? As an OC Flip makes a great QB coach. He may grow, but c'mon...
At minimum demand Pet takes over the DC duties...
Promote Flip... lmao... the guy's been an OC for 15 minutes.
TC,
Who do you think is responsible for the O-line underperformance? the RB underperformance? As an OC Flip makes a great QB coach. He may grow, but c'mon...
At minimum demand Pet takes over the DC duties...
Right...Flip can barely handle his business......and who runs the D if no Pettine or Oneill?......there's not a position coach on the entire D that has been in the NFL for more than 3 years.....all rookies.....the whole lot of em...
And probably the likely culprits if coaching is the issue.....dont think Pettine actually "coaches" anyone....so if they really want to make a difference, dont fire the "firhure head"....fire the guys who are coaching the players...
And....all these rookies coaches might not have the talent to develop the kids?>....who knows....
But a new staff is hard to build,...takes time.....very few coaches come with "their" guys and most new coaches have to pick off the scrap heap/////pettine too.......
as will the next guy.....
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This team sucks. Period. I dont think they're well coached, per se, but I don't know what you can do with a bunch of unwanted QBs, dwarf WRs, aging LBers, and a secondary that may not be objectively bad but has to cover guys for eons.
The draft picks have been a D Minus at best under Farmer, and what acquisitions have helped this team?
Are you really telling me this is a playoff caliber team from a talent perspective? Ridiculous.
Thus team is fucking garbage from a personnel perspective. I think Farmer's built a shitty team.
Well, unfortunately, we don't know if your opinion is true or not...because the best players aren't seeing the field.
Well, unfortunately, we don't know if your opinion is true or not...because the best players aren't seeing the field.
So your contention is that a bunch of guys riding the pine would justify the continued employment of Ray Farmer? I just want to make sure that's really what you're saying.
The short version of my response, to save me time and the rest of us brain cells, is that I vehemently disagree.
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What a disaster.
Rumor is O'Neil's gone.
Don't bother.
Keep them all and clean House at the end of the year.
2-14 or 6-10 . . . only difference is going to be Draft position, and really, is it worth it either way.
Sadly, looks like I was correct in my assessment last year after the Bengals blew us out.
What a disaster.
Rumor is O'Neil's gone.
Don't bother.
Keep them all and clean House at the end of the year.
2-14 or 6-10 . . . only difference is going to be Draft position, and really, is it worth it either way.
Sadly, looks like I was correct in my assessment last year after the Bengals blew us out.
Pettine's mantra has been "accountability" so someone has to be held accountable. giving up 30+ points in the last 4 games sucks. That folks, was an abomination of professional football. The Bengals in effect said, oh boy, we get to scrimmage an Arena League team.
I hope Jimmuh tells Mike- O'Neil has to go, and if you don't agree, you can go right along with him. Promote Dansby to player coach.
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I think the number one problem with this team is the abject failure to put together a talented roster.
I'm no Pettine fan, but if it was between him and Farmer I'm axing Farmer.
How are you in any position to make that assessment? Are you watching Gilbert and Manziel practice? Because they sure as fuck aren't getting in any games...and it's definitely not because the guys ahead of them are better.
As for Shelton, Haloti Ngata had 31 tackles in his rookie season - all 16 games. Shelton has 25 so far. I think he'll be fine.
And Erving is being asked to play in the one position he never practiced and is not built for. Move Erving to T and then let's see how bad he is.
This reactionary shit right here is part of the reason we suck - placing blame on the completely wrong party without having a reason behind it.
This reactionary shit right here is part of the reason we suck - placing blame on the completely wrong party without having a reason behind it.
and then firing them....every 2 years......and all the while, the talent continues to suck
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Promote Flip... lmao... the guy's been an OC for 15 minutes.
TC,
Who do you think is responsible for the O-line underperformance? the RB underperformance? As an OC Flip makes a great QB coach. He may grow, but c'mon...
At minimum demand Pet takes over the DC duties...
Right...Flip can barely handle his business......and who runs the D if no Pettine or Oneill?......there's not a position coach on the entire D that has been in the NFL for more than 3 years.....all rookies.....the whole lot of em...
And probably the likely culprits if coaching is the issue.....dont think Pettine actually "coaches" anyone....so if they really want to make a difference, dont fire the "firhure head"....fire the guys who are coaching the players...
And....all these rookies coaches might not have the talent to develop the kids?>....who knows....
But a new staff is hard to build,...takes time.....very few coaches come with "their" guys and most new coaches have to pick off the scrap heap/////pettine too.......
as will the next guy.....
Right...Flip can barely handle his business......and who runs the D if no Pettine or Oneill?......there's not a position coach on the entire D that has been in the NFL for more than 3 years.....all rookies.....the whole lot of em...
And probably the likely culprits if coaching is the issue.....dont think Pettine actually "coaches" anyone....so if they really want to make a difference, dont fire the "firhure head"....fire the guys who are coaching the players...
And....all these rookies coaches might not have the talent to develop the kids?>....who knows....
But a new staff is hard to build,...takes time.....very few coaches come with "their" guys and most new coaches have to pick off the scrap heap/////pettine too.......
as will the next guy.....
Good point Mud. Mike doesn't have an experienced coordinator, not one. Where's Torv Turner when you need him?
If someone doesn't get axed after the latest shit show, I'll be disappointed. If only from the standpoint- this crap has gone on far too long.
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This team sucks. Period. I dont think they're well coached, per se, but I don't know what you can do with a bunch of unwanted QBs, dwarf WRs, aging LBers, and a secondary that may not be objectively bad but has to cover guys for eons.
The draft picks have been a D Minus at best under Farmer, and what acquisitions have helped this team?
Are you really telling me this is a playoff caliber team from a talent perspective? Ridiculous.
Thus team is fucking garbage from a personnel perspective. I think Farmer's built a shitty team.
Well, unfortunately, we don't know if your opinion is true or not...because the best players aren't seeing the field.
Well, unfortunately, we don't know if your opinion is true or not...because the best players aren't seeing the field.
Gotta be a TC-patented, troll post... hole in the logic so big even Crow could run thru it...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
@douche-nozzle said:
I'm honestly curious because I've watched it for 35 years here in Cleveland, particularly since coming back to the NFL. What could Haslem do? So many want nothing except to win "now" and that simply isn't going to happen. To fix this cluster-fuck will take many years and it seems like the majority of Browns fans and media simply wouldn't tolerate that. The media is a joke and the fans are so unrealistic I'm not sure there is anything he could do.
It doesn't take 4 years to turn a franchise around- look at Carolina for exhibit A. I don't want a freaking Super Bowl next year- BUT. I saw MY team seriously regress in every conceivable category from 2014. The status quo, like 7-9 would have saved everyone, maybe even 6-10. But going from semi-respectability to the leader in the Clubhouse for Rodger Goodell saying come next year "with the first pick in the 2016 NFL draft the Cleveland Browns select...." . Just isn't what I was looking for.
Forget "we're going to run the ball and stop the run"? Well, what the hell happened there? Can't stop the pass, and outside of Benji and Barnidge the passing attack isn't particularly anything to write home about either.
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Well, unfortunately, we don't know if your opinion is true or not...because the best players aren't seeing the field.
So your contention is that a bunch of guys riding the pine would justify the continued employment of Ray Farmer? I just want to make sure that's really what you're saying.
The short version of my response, to save me time and the rest of us brain cells, is that I vehemently disagree.
So your contention is that a bunch of guys riding the pine would justify the continued employment of Ray Farmer? I just want to make sure that's really what you're saying.
The short version of my response, to save me time and the rest of us brain cells, is that I vehemently disagree.
That's wonderful, but I couldn't give a fuck less about your disagreement, because it's wrong.
My contention is that Farmer was hired to do one thing - pull the best talent he could at the positions we picked, without mortgaging the future.
Pettine is on record claiming he wanted the Browns identity to be a run first team with a strong defense that bullied opponents. Farmer spent money on a former Pro Bowl LB, former Pro Bowl CB, and former Pro Bowl FS - all from proven winning franchises in order to help bring both talent and a winning mentality. Now we hear that the proven LB has been asked by our coaching staff to play 25 lbs lighter than he had in his entire career? That's not a Farmer problem, that's a Pettine problem.
Pettine asked for versatility among his front seven. Farmer brought in Starks, who is known as possibly the most versatile defensive lineman of the past 5-10 years. He has excelled at both interior line and defensive end, making a Pro Bowl at each position. Yet he's invisible here. Once again - a Pettine problem, not a Farmer problem.
Pettine wanted a lock down CB to help run his defense. Farmer took possibly the top cover corner in the draft. And, despite the concern that he had confidence issues in college, Pettine piled on him and relegated him to backup KR duties almost immediately. Once again, a Pettine problem, not a Farmer problem.
Our offensive line fell off of a cliff after Mack's injury, so Farmer drafted an offensive lineman who could play both center and tackle at a high level. Erving finally sees the field 10 games into the season...at guard. Once again, not a Farmer problem.
Our defense was ill suited to stop the run, getting gashed between the tackles for an inordinate YPC last year, so Farmer invested in the top interior defensive lineman in the league. Shelton's rookie season is almost identical to Haloti Ngata's...yet fans are calling for his head because they fundamentally don't understand how a 3-4 defense is run.
Flip wanted to continue the ZBS that Shanahan implemented, so Farmer got THE best zone scheme runningback in the entire draft. And he's been underutilized by the coaching staff. Once again, not a Farmer problem.
If you want to knock Bowe, go ahead. That was a bad acquisition. But don't try to come here with weak shit reasoning that "our first rounders are bad boo hoo".
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Well, unfortunately, we don't know if your opinion is true or not...because the best players aren't seeing the field.
Gotta be a TC-patented, troll post... hole in the logic so big even Crow could run thru it...
Gotta be a TC-patented, troll post... hole in the logic so big even Crow could run thru it...
Elaborate, please.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
The reality is someone has to be held accountable for the total regression of this team, culminating in the compete pile of shit it has turned into.
I'm sure it was a bitter pill for Jimma to swallow, to have to admit he fucked up hiring Pettine, Farmer, or both.The reality is someone has to be held accountable for the total regression of this team, culminating in the compete pile of shit it has turned into.
Combine too little experience, with an impatient fan base and the writing is on the wall.
We'll be doing this same process again in 2 years or less.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
I'm sure it was a bitter pill for Jimma to swallow, to have to admit he fucked up hiring Pettine, Farmer, or both.The reality is someone has to be held accountable for the total regression of this team, culminating in the compete pile of shit it has turned into.
Combine too little experience, with an impatient fan base and the writing is on the wall.
We'll be doing this same process again in 2 years or less.
We'll be doing this same process again in 2 years or less.
Unfortunately for all of us, you're probably right.
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After blowouts like this after a very poor season, someone is losing their job. My guess is O'Neil. The schedule hasn't been kind, but our defense, running game and WRs haven't been good enough all season. That suggests to me it's a coaching issue, as my logic says they should have had a good game at some point or shown some positive consistency. I'm not for a major overhaul unless we know we have someone good coming in (Gruden?), but it's time for O'Neil to depart.
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I'm sure it was a bitter pill for Jimma to swallow, to have to admit he fucked up hiring Pettine, Farmer, or both.The reality is someone has to be held accountable for the total regression of this team, culminating in the compete pile of shit it has turned into.
Combine too little experience, with an impatient fan base and the writing is on the wall.
We'll be doing this same process again in 2 years or less.
I'm sure it was a bitter pill for Jimma to swallow, to have to admit he fucked up hiring Pettine, Farmer, or both.
Combine too little experience, with an impatient fan base and the writing is on the wall.
We'll be doing this same process again in 2 years or less.
Eventually we have to hire the right guy. Can't keep making the wrong decision forever.
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I would go so far as to say to Mr Haslam please sell the team. The head
man is ultimately responsible for this mess. He has the final say on who
is hired. He is the one who hired Farmer and Pettine. Pettine is clearly over
his head as a head coach.He makes me yearn for Pat Shurmur the way
he (Pettine ) manages the clock. Farmer has been an unmitigated disaster as
a GM from Bowe to first round busts. I've been a fan of this team all my life from
the 50s on and this is as low as I can remember.You can have fans pissed off
and bitching but when apathy sets in you are in trouble and apathy is here with
our fan base.I know Haslam won't feel his cash cow but I yearn for someone
who cares.
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I don't think cleaning house is necessary. But a new Oline coach in sync with Flip and the offensive philosophy, coupled with passionate D cord who wouldn't be a 'yes man' to Pettine ( not that I'm saying O'Neil is, I just have a feeling) might do this team a world of good. Preferably a coordinator not married to pigeon holing his players into specific roles/assignments.
Edit. An apology for drafting Johnny would be nice as well. From Haslam, of course.
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I'm sure it was a bitter pill for Jimma to swallow, to have to admit he fucked up hiring Pettine, Farmer, or both.
Combine too little experience, with an impatient fan base and the writing is on the wall.
We'll be doing this same process again in 2 years or less.
Eventually we have to hire the right guy. Can't keep making the wrong decision forever.
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