Haslem and Farmer should be ashamed....
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Welcome to the Rob Chud World & many more since 99. Just from a butt not in the seats, Jimmy needs to give the keys to a GM of Bill Polian or Parcells Than get the hell out of the way till GM has his coach. Than keep signing here Jimmy!! Mud, you pist. but positive. keep steamrolling straight ahead!!
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Great topic.
If you look at the elite teams they start at the front office. A buddy at work asked me why some teams have great luck getting qb's and some don't. My response is the same.
It starts by putting the right people in place to do their jobs. Whether its evaluating talent to coaching. Teams that have always seemed to have great qb's are the ones with a great front office.
Haslem needs to put the right people in place instead of running the franchise like one of his truckstops with a high turnover rate.
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Kinda torn, Mud...
On one hand I don't want to see Haslam (or Farmer) in front of the cameras as regularly as Jerrah is down in Dallas. When face time with the press was divvied up at their retreat I suspect Pet was designated to be the guy with Farmer doing his Draft, Pre-season, Mid-season and Season's end updates. Ditto for Jimmah except only twice a year.
Other than lame defenses of his logo, even Snyder is more scarce now in DC.
On the other hand at minimum I would have liked to have seen a press release from Haslam affirming that he backed Pet after Pet rescinded the starting job. Had the added step of suspending JM for two weeks been taken, then I would have fully expected Farmer to open the Presser with Pet and then leave.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Kinda torn, Mud...
On one hand I don't want to see Haslam (or Farmer) in front of the cameras as regularly as Jerrah is down in Dallas. When face time with the press was divvied up at their retreat I suspect Pet was designated to be the guy with Farmer doing his Draft, Pre-season, Mid-season and Season's end updates. Ditto for Jimmah except only twice a year.
Other than lame defenses of his logo, even Snyder is more scarce now in DC.
On the other hand at minimum I would have liked to have seen a press release from Haslam affirming that he backed Pet after Pet rescinded the starting job. Had the added step of suspending JM for two weeks been taken, then I would have fully expected Farmer to open the Presser with Pet and then leave.
Kinda torn, Mud...
On one hand I don't want to see Haslam (or Farmer) in front of the cameras as regularly as Jerrah is down in Dallas. When face time with the press was divvied up at their retreat I suspect Pet was designated to be the guy with Farmer doing his Draft, Pre-season, Mid-season and Season's end updates. Ditto for Jimmah except only twice a year.
Other than lame defenses of his logo, even Snyder is more scarce now in DC.
On the other hand at minimum I would have liked to have seen a press release from Haslam affirming that he backed Pet after Pet rescinded the starting job. Had the added step of suspending JM for two weeks been taken, then I would have fully expected Farmer to open the Presser with Pet and then leave.
I get where both of you are coming from, but I agree with Mud on this. I think the FO is just leaving him out there week after week to deal with this shitshow. I don't want a Jerry Jones or Snyder type owner, but when things are going bad like they are this year, the man on top needs to be heard from occasionally and the same goes for Farmer. For these two to keep sending Pettine out there to deal with the media week after week is pretty weak.
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I get that Mark, but we're not doing anything as an organization...
Can't say what I was going to say because it made me realized we have done things that should have required Farmer to step forward. Been more than a few player releases that Pet was left to deal with.
OK... officially less torn now.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I get that Mark, but we're not doing anything as an organization...
Can't say what I was going to say because it made me realized we have done things that should have required Farmer to step forward. Been more than a few player releases that Pet was left to deal with.
OK... officially less torn now.
I get that Mark, but we're not doing anything as an organization...
Can't say what I was going to say because it made me realized we have done things that should have required Farmer to step forward. Been more than a few player releases that Pet was left to deal with.
OK... officially less torn now.
Its ok to be sold on something by Mud. I was all in with Zombo on Camp Fire Everyone last night but Mud has pulled me back from the dark side (there are some here who will get that joke) to the good side that says there are changes that can be made without blowing up the entire coaching staff, especially the head coach.
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Preachin' to the choir, boys...
Charter member of the Mud Clud, here...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I gotta wonder about Jimmy a bit tho. The media only got a "no comment" outa him after the game and read all sorts of things in it. Maybe he is going ignore the media frenzy and stand pat. Regardless, firing people now would help nothing
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Another example of the only voice we are hearing from....
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/browns_mike_pettine_your_build.html
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still time for those on the dark side with delusioned minds (gruden is coming....urban will sign....fire pet elevate flip) to get their story straight before another humiliating defeat of what they preach and believe in does not come true.
still got that case saying gruden nor urban coming so.......
where 'dem big mouths at?
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I'm a Muddite too. As he has said previously you can't fire the owner, but it's Haslam who has assembled a coaching staff of rookies who are supposed to be teaching, but in reality are still learning. Pettine is one of those and has a real tough job- even experienced HCs would suffer at Cleveland right now. I'm sure history will repeat itself though. We need a lot more experienced coaches for starters.
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I gotta wonder about Jimmy a bit tho. The media only got a "no comment" outa him after the game and read all sorts of things in it. Maybe he is going ignore the media frenzy and stand pat. Regardless, firing people now would help nothing
I gotta wonder about Jimmy a bit tho. The media only got a "no comment" outa him after the game and read all sorts of things in it.
No worse time to comment on the record that when you're frustrated/ pissed...
Just think what this place would be like if we all didn't follow this simple guideline.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I would be willing to give pettine another year with the assumption that whomever is in charge of defensive player personnel groupings and the overcomplicated read/react defense is replaced with a more traditional defensive scheme i would prefer and 4~3 with an emphasis on Interior Blitzer's. But with pettine at the head i just dont think that will happen as he is firmly a rex ryan man. To be honest if you wouldn't accept rob ryan or rex ryan as your HC. I don't see pettine as much different. Personally i just want smashmouth football back in cleveland ohio. These gimmick players and coaches are getting old. Also i would love to shift away from zone running and move back into power running.
I doubt pettine will do the things i want to see...but...i have seen hope in him...the type of players he prefers fit that system both offensively and defensively and i am hoping with time he realizes that the "speedy playmaker" defense looks real pretty when it works but it doesn't win championships. It is just not consistent enough.
Farmer should be let go at the end of the season. I just think he and pettine have two completely different visions on what makes a team good and the result is this mixture of two competing ideals. If i had to pick one to keep and one to fire it would be pettine over farmer.
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I gotta wonder about Jimmy a bit tho. The media only got a "no comment" outa him after the game and read all sorts of things in it.
No worse time to comment on the record that when you're frustrated/ pissed...
Just think what this place would be like if we all didn't follow this simple guideline.
No worse time to comment on the record that when you're frustrated/ pissed...Just think what this place would be like if we all didn't follow this simple guideline.
Not really what I meant tho. I'm thinking he might be changing his ways. What can he say? We suck? Fire em all? The worst right now might be to say "we're riding it out". But a no comment and walk away may just mean we get the same HC and gm next year. I can't see him hiring a new gm and make him keep the coach when it's his job to hire the hc. About the only real cure is to ride it out and get a team assembled under 1 gm hc combo.
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I've been trying to say it myself. The shit starts at the top and flows down. And Pettine sure comes off as a stand up guy. He has had to answer for mistakes at the owner and GM level as well as his own....which he admits. And that's on top of trying to coach the talent he has to be game ready and dealing with player egos....without help or support from the top. He's got more backbone than the other 2 combined
And Pettine sure comes off as a stand up guy....... He's got more backbone than the other 2 combined
Agreed....he's not perfect, but damned if he isnt trying....and he has the biggest balls any of our coaches have had in quite some time.....
Shit, we agree again. Hell has officially frozen.
Well....it is that time of year....
Great job Mud!
I don't understand why Pettine has to answer for the clusterfuck that Farmer has assembled every Monday.
Right.....and I dont blame him for getting a bit of attitude toward some of these guys.....he is human after all....
Its hard to stay happy, when you're working your ass off and you keep getting knocked back by people who arent....
Mud, you pist. but positive. keep steamrolling straight ahead!!
Yes eye am.....frustrated at leased....
Other than lame defenses of his logo, even Snyder is more scarce now in DC.
Yes he is.....though he has the one other team with 8 Coaches since 1999....
I know Jimmy wants to seem like he's one of those guys who wont "accept" losing, but sometimes those types of guys are the ones making irrational decisions.....
Jerry, Snyder and Davis come to mind quickly....
Id like to see if some Rooney rubbed off on him.....cause I dont think he has EVER fired a coach after one or 2 years.......
Its ok to be sold on something by Mud. ........ but Mud has pulled me back from the dark side.....
I got some land in Florida......
Glad you rejoined us and can now enjoy some Mudshine....
I'm a Muddite too. As he has said previously you can't fire the owner, but it's Haslam who has assembled a coaching staff of rookies who are supposed to be teaching, but in reality are still learning. Pettine is one of those and has a real tough job- even experienced HCs would suffer at Cleveland right now. I'm sure history will repeat itself though. We need a lot more experienced coaches for starters.
There it is.....rookies make mistakes(coaches, players and owners).......
If the WHOLE team is made up of rookies.....there are gonna be MORE mistakes.....it's just common sense.....
Lets see how they develop before we start cutting em......
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I don't despise Pettine - but it's his defense that does not work, the Browns defensive
players are playing all out.
but they certainly look po'd after seeing that the defense is making them look foolish.
and with the frustration goes mistakes.
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I agree with a lot of your original post. Injuries happen to just about every team in the NFL, so it's the responsibility of the GM to have the cupboard stocked at least A LITTLE bit so the drop off isn't so cataclysmic. When is the last time we drafted an impact player in the first round? I mean, it's not THAT hard. How many people were screaming for Derek Carr? Anthony Barr? Aaron Donald? Even Bridgewater isn't doing too poorly, and the reason is he plays on a team that can RUN THE BALL and has a decent defense. What about all of the WR's Farmer whiffed on, and then in his typical arrogant self, he says that the WR position isn't that important (I'm paraphrasing, but he said something like that).
Here's the thing: Just because we fire Pettine and his staff, doesn't mean that we're going to be able to find somebody BETTER. Farmer has to go too, right? What coach worth his salt will want a job with no security, a joke of a GM, and a culture that won't allow for 3-4 years of building? I've heard some say Gruden was advocating for the job, but I didn't get that sense at all. I think he was just pointing out the massive failures of our team as a whole. Mud has kind of changed my mind a little bit in regards to thinking it was all a scheme problem. Does Pettine deserve some blame? Of course he does, but he hasn't exactly been given the keys to a high performing squad, and his talent level is extremely poor. We don't have ANY talent (for the most part), and Pettine doesn't really have a say in that.
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