Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I've heard some that it is Pettines job to field his best team. .. I don't see it as a personality conflict...more like coach sees lack of talent. Now it's just a matter of getting him a decent gameplan and most likely show the world why he hasn't played
I don't think "lack of talent" is something Pettine ever saw in Johnny.
Mike
i really think he fears the kid'll get hurt or hurt the team.I don't think "lack of talent" is something Pettine ever saw in Johnny.
Mike
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they're playing him to showcase him (if that's possible).
hope he does well enough that jones gives up a decent draft pick.
i'm sure that sunday night meeting went something like this:
haslam: sorry guys i fucked up and made the pick on manziel. do you think we should play him so we at least can get some teams interested in a trade?......cuz he's out of here.
farmer: yes
pettine: ok
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"The goal for every game is to go out and win," Pettine said, "and Johnny needs to show that he can put us in position to do so during these last four weeks of the season."
What the hell does that mean?
Well... according to my Pettine decoder ring...
JM must play well within the system, making reads until it's time to go JFF...
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Is that the last nail in Pettines coffin?
Theres no question he has been holding him back...musical qbs, putting him in time out..
I think he would still be playing Davis if someone didnt push the issue.
I think the lack of steady Qb play once again has hurt any type of cohesion in the team.
Theres no question he has been holding him back...musical qbs, putting him in time out..
I think he would still be playing Davis if someone didnt push the issue.
I think the lack of steady Qb play once again has hurt any type of cohesion in the team.
I think you are guessing. You have zero evidence to support a single one of your "insights".
What is objectively apparent is that JM has developed as a QB under Pet and company. The only "holding back" was JM withholding his full effort throughout the 2014 season.
Then came 2015. The effort improved. It showed in an early effort against a mediocre team, but that game also showed performance gaps... as did the 2nd start. Then start #3 finally showed some real progress.
Finally came a benching designed for only one purpose... to develop JM as a person.
It'll be a while before we know how effective that was, but starting Sunday I think we will see it did him no harm as a football player.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Personally I hope he plays really well and we keep him meaning a draft pick can be used to bolster our defense instead. QBs have not been the issue(s) this year. I didn't see Sunday's game, but from what I heard Davis was okay. This team must be so low on confidence right now it's hard to see another win whoever plays QB.
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If it goes well then keep him, in addition to the other two/three QBs. Start him next season. You COULD even dump McCown if it's financially worth it, but he would still be a help. (EDIT: on second thought, given the policy of the next paragraph, don't dump McCown).
Off the field, I would tell him not to drink until the end of the season. If he does, he's gone. In the offseason, he can do whatever but IF he does anything illegal or gets arrested for ANYTHING, he's gone. I'm not saying I'm in favor of him drinking. I'm 100% not. I'm just not sure how seemly it is for the org to be controlling legal off-field activity.
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I agree JM must be micro managed out of Berea too.
Loyaultie me Lie. If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor! -
What coach Haslam wants, coach Haslam gets. Funny how a guy that never played or coached is making the decision. That doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.
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Why is everyone assuming Pett is "forced" to start Johnny, when he said last week, and all along, that he would get another chance?
Pett makes all decisions with the 53 he is given.
Are people really butthurt that Johnny got benched for lying to the team? And when his replacement played well in relief he sat another game. Hell, if McCown is still healthy, he might still be sitting.
Its the right team to start him. He got a chance to start a couple weeks an ago and HE blew that ... not Pett.
If he plays well down the stretch, that should be a credit to Pett and the staff, he wasnt holding Johnny back, Johnny was.
Z
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There are remarks from ex players, coaches and reporters that this is Haslam's call. How true are they? I don't know, but it does seem to be a pretty unanimous thought.
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So who thinks that Johnny was Pet's gu in the draft?
Who thinks he was Ray farmers guy?
Who thinks he was Jimmy's guy and the other two were bullied into pretending they were on board?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
I don't think Manziel's success has as much to do with Pettine as it does with Johnny himself. That said, I'm not sure we would keep Johnny REGARDLESS of how he plays. What I mean is, say he plays really well. Throws are crisp, decisions are sharp, displays control of the offense while scoring some points. And suppose he does that for all four games, and really gets a few people salivating. That might just increase his trade value enough for a team (Cowboys maybe?) to make an offer we can't refuse. How many times has Johnny burned us? Can we really take a chance on him "figuring it out", or do we get what we can for him, and truly start over with another rookie? Your guess is as good as mine.
What I'd LIKE to see happen is for Johnny to continue to show progress, and him come back next year as the undisputed starter. I'd like to see Gordon back as well.
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So who thinks that Johnny was Pet's gu in the draft?
Who thinks he was Ray farmers guy?
Who thinks he was Jimmy's guy and the other two were bullied into pretending they were on board?
WSS
So who thinks that Johnny was Pet's gu in the draft?
Who thinks he was Ray farmers guy?
Who thinks he was Jimmy's guy and the other two were bullied into pretending they were on board?
WSS
Farmer's pick with Jimmy's blessing.
Zombo
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I don't think Manziel's success has as much to do with Pettine as it does with Johnny himself. That said, I'm not sure we would keep Johnny REGARDLESS of how he plays. What I mean is, say he plays really well. Throws are crisp, decisions are sharp, displays control of the offense while scoring some points. And suppose he does that for all four games, and really gets a few people salivating. That might just increase his trade value enough for a team (Cowboys maybe?) to make an offer we can't refuse. How many times has Johnny burned us? Can we really take a chance on him "figuring it out", or do we get what we can for him, and truly start over with another rookie? Your guess is as good as mine.
What I'd LIKE to see happen is for Johnny to continue to show progress, and him come back next year as the undisputed starter. I'd like to see Gordon back as well.
I don't think Manziel's success has as much to do with Pettine as it does with Johnny himself. That said, I'm not sure we would keep Johnny REGARDLESS of how he plays. What I mean is, say he plays really well. Throws are crisp, decisions are sharp, displays control of the offense while scoring some points. And suppose he does that for all four games, and really gets a few people salivating. That might just increase his trade value enough for a team (Cowboys maybe?) to make an offer we can't refuse. How many times has Johnny burned us? Can we really take a chance on him "figuring it out", or do we get what we can for him, and truly start over with another rookie? Your guess is as good as mine.
What I'd LIKE to see happen is for Johnny to continue to show progress, and him come back next year as the undisputed starter. I'd like to see Gordon back as well.
Seeing as qb play has not been a big issue but depth and FA complacency to be our bigger problems...trade for picks and get more youth. And that would still have a 2 year wait for real payoff. Short term solution? patience....it is a virtue.
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So who thinks that Johnny was Pet's gu in the draft?
Who thinks he was Ray farmers guy?
Who thinks he was Jimmy's guy and the other two were bullied into pretending they were on board?
WSS
So who thinks that Johnny was Pet's gu in the draft?
Who thinks he was Ray farmers guy?
Who thinks he was Jimmy's guy and the other two were bullied into pretending they were on board?
WSS
We really won't know the answer to that until somebody gets fired
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I don't think Manziel's success has as much to do with Pettine as it does with Johnny himself. That said, I'm not sure we would keep Johnny REGARDLESS of how he plays. What I mean is, say he plays really well. Throws are crisp, decisions are sharp, displays control of the offense while scoring some points. And suppose he does that for all four games, and really gets a few people salivating. That might just increase his trade value enough for a team (Cowboys maybe?) to make an offer we can't refuse. How many times has Johnny burned us? Can we really take a chance on him "figuring it out", or do we get what we can for him, and truly start over with another rookie? Your guess is as good as mine.
What I'd LIKE to see happen is for Johnny to continue to show progress, and him come back next year as the undisputed starter. I'd like to see Gordon back as well.
I don't think Manziel's success has as much to do with Pettine as it does with Johnny himself. That said, I'm not sure we would keep Johnny REGARDLESS of how he plays.
I'm no expert but that sounds like a bad plan to me.
WSS
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Why is everyone assuming Pett is "forced" to start Johnny, when he said last week, and all along, that he would get another chance?
Pett makes all decisions with the 53 he is given.
Are people really butthurt that Johnny got benched for lying to the team? And when his replacement played well in relief he sat another game. Hell, if McCown is still healthy, he might still be sitting.
Its the right team to start him. He got a chance to start a couple weeks an ago and HE blew that ... not Pett.
If he plays well down the stretch, that should be a credit to Pett and the staff, he wasnt holding Johnny back, Johnny was.
Z
Zombo said:
Why is everyone assuming Pett is "forced" to start Johnny, when he said last week, and all along, that he would get another chance?
Pett makes all decisions with the 53 he is given.
Are people really butthurt that Johnny got benched for lying to the team? And when his replacement played well in relief he sat another game. Hell, if McCown is still healthy, he might still be sitting.
Its the right team to start him. He got a chance to start a couple weeks an ago and HE blew that ... not Pett.
If he plays well down the stretch, that should be a credit to Pett and the staff, he wasnt holding Johnny back, Johnny was.
Z
I agree with both yours and Tour's post page 1. That may be a first. One thing I have a question about. Does a team have the right to enroll a player into the NFL substance abuse program if the player agrees with the team he needs that as a part of an overall rehab. program? Because even if he plays well and stays out of trouble now, the team will need to sit down at season's end and come up with a mutually agreed upon rehab/aftercare plan if they want to keep him going forward. At least if I am in the front office that would be the bottom line if I thought he really was my QB from here on out.
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Why is everyone assuming Pett is "forced" to start Johnny, when he said last week, and all along, that he would get another chance?
Pett makes all decisions with the 53 he is given.
Are people really butthurt that Johnny got benched for lying to the team? And when his replacement played well in relief he sat another game. Hell, if McCown is still healthy, he might still be sitting.
Its the right team to start him. He got a chance to start a couple weeks an ago and HE blew that ... not Pett.
If he plays well down the stretch, that should be a credit to Pett and the staff, he wasnt holding Johnny back, Johnny was.
Z
Zombo said:
Why is everyone assuming Pett is "forced" to start Johnny, when he said last week, and all along, that he would get another chance?
Pett makes all decisions with the 53 he is given.
Are people really butthurt that Johnny got benched for lying to the team? And when his replacement played well in relief he sat another game. Hell, if McCown is still healthy, he might still be sitting.
Its the right team to start him. He got a chance to start a couple weeks an ago and HE blew that ... not Pett.
If he plays well down the stretch, that should be a credit to Pett and the staff, he wasnt holding Johnny back, Johnny was.
Z
He was always going to start, after being named the starter. His imposed suspension for being stupid was designed to hold him accountable, but that was never going to be for ever. Now it's over, Manziel's back on track.
Whether or not it was originally *his* choice exclusively, I don't know, but I'm guessing that was a decision taken along with Farmer and maybe Haslam.
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I don't think Manziel's success has as much to do with Pettine as it does with Johnny himself. That said, I'm not sure we would keep Johnny REGARDLESS of how he plays. What I mean is, say he plays really well. Throws are crisp, decisions are sharp, displays control of the offense while scoring some points. And suppose he does that for all four games, and really gets a few people salivating. That might just increase his trade value enough for a team (Cowboys maybe?) to make an offer we can't refuse. How many times has Johnny burned us? Can we really take a chance on him "figuring it out", or do we get what we can for him, and truly start over with another rookie? Your guess is as good as mine.
What I'd LIKE to see happen is for Johnny to continue to show progress, and him come back next year as the undisputed starter. I'd like to see Gordon back as well.
Seeing as qb play has not been a big issue but depth and FA complacency to be our bigger problems...trade for picks and get more youth. And that would still have a 2 year wait for real payoff. Short term solution? patience....it is a virtue.
Seeing as qb play has not been a big issue but depth and FA complacency to be our bigger problems...trade for picks and get more youth. And that would still have a 2 year wait for real payoff. Short term solution? patience....it is a virtue.
It's difficult to argue that patience is needed, the problem is, most fans' patience has been slowly obliterated during the past 16 years. I think the real reason this season is so enraging is many of us hoped/thought that last year was a turning point. Hell, we were 7-4 and playing the kind of ball many people loved. We ran the ball effectively, had a hometown QB, and we still were going to get Gordon back. Things looked like they were FINALLY turning around, and it also appeared we had the coaching staff we needed.
Even after we lost the last five games, many fans still believed we would be on par for progress. I don't know many that thought the playoffs would be in reach because of our difficult schedule, but progress was certainly on the minds of many. And now with 4 games left, progress has left the building, and fans are struggling to grasp anything that looks like hope. Our talent is devoid of talent at virtually all positions. We don't do one single thing well, and we are on course for the top overall pick in the draft, without anything that resembles a #1 selection.
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Zombo said:
Why is everyone assuming Pett is "forced" to start Johnny, when he said last week, and all along, that he would get another chance?
Pett makes all decisions with the 53 he is given.
Are people really butthurt that Johnny got benched for lying to the team? And when his replacement played well in relief he sat another game. Hell, if McCown is still healthy, he might still be sitting.
Its the right team to start him. He got a chance to start a couple weeks an ago and HE blew that ... not Pett.
If he plays well down the stretch, that should be a credit to Pett and the staff, he wasnt holding Johnny back, Johnny was.
Z
I agree with both yours and Tour's post page 1. That may be a first. One thing I have a question about. Does a team have the right to enroll a player into the NFL substance abuse program if the player agrees with the team he needs that as a part of an overall rehab. program? Because even if he plays well and stays out of trouble now, the team will need to sit down at season's end and come up with a mutually agreed upon rehab/aftercare plan if they want to keep him going forward. At least if I am in the front office that would be the bottom line if I thought he really was my QB from here on out.
Unless, like I keep saying, it's just ass hole college kid behavior and there's no addiction at all. The rehab was for show.I agree with both yours and Tour's post page 1. That may be a first. One thing I have a question about. Does a team have the right to enroll a player into the NFL substance abuse program if the player agrees with the team he needs that as a part of an overall rehab. program? Because even if he plays well and stays out of trouble now, the team will need to sit down at season's end and come up with a mutually agreed upon rehab/aftercare plan if they want to keep him going forward. At least if I am in the front office that would be the bottom line if I thought he really was my QB from here on out.
Like Rock Hudson getting married.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
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