Keep Pettine in Place at Least 1 More Year
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Here's how it would go....
Browns fire Pettine and Farmer, 90% of the posters complain about yet another "blow-up" and call for new ownership, launch search for new coach, select new coach, 80% of the posters here complain about the selection, draft takes place, 75 % the posters complain about the picks, Browns go 4-12 in 2016, 100% of the posters complain about the new management/coaching, argumentum ad infinitum (an argument made repeatedly (possibly by different people) until nobody cares to discuss it any more.)
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That sounds like the last 17 years
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That sounds like the last 17 years
Only if we get the next ex-Browns QB in the draft as well.
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Here's how it would go....
Browns fire Pettine and Farmer, 90% of the posters complain about yet another "blow-up" and call for new ownership, launch search for new coach, select new coach, 80% of the posters here complain about the selection, draft takes place, 75 % the posters complain about the picks, Browns go 4-12 in 2016, 100% of the posters complain about the new management/coaching, argumentum ad infinitum (an argument made repeatedly (possibly by different people) until nobody cares to discuss it any more.)
Here's how it would go....
Browns fire Pettine and Farmer, 90% of the posters complain about yet another "blow-up" and call for new ownership, launch search for new coach, select new coach, 80% of the posters here complain about the selection, draft takes place, 75 % the posters complain about the picks, Browns go 4-12 in 2016, 100% of the posters complain about the new management/coaching, argumentum ad infinitum (an argument made repeatedly (possibly by different people) until nobody cares to discuss it any more.)
Right.....Im with you....
Coaching is getting blamed because thats the easy fix....and an easy solution....just pick a target and attack.....
Pettine is not the issue....but you(and I) are just spinning wheels....no one wants to hear the truth....(talent lacks)
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Here's how it would go....
Browns fire Pettine and Farmer, 90% of the posters complain about yet another "blow-up" and call for new ownership, launch search for new coach, select new coach, 80% of the posters here complain about the selection, draft takes place, 75 % the posters complain about the picks, Browns go 4-12 in 2016, 100% of the posters complain about the new management/coaching, argumentum ad infinitum (an argument made repeatedly (possibly by different people) until nobody cares to discuss it any more.)
Right.....Im with you....
Coaching is getting blamed because thats the easy fix....and an easy solution....just pick a target and attack.....
Pettine is not the issue....but you(and I) are just spinning wheels....no one wants to hear the truth....(talent lacks)
Right.....Im with you....
Coaching is getting blamed because thats the easy fix....and an easy solution....just pick a target and attack.....
Pettine is not the issue....but you(and I) are just spinning wheels....no one wants to hear the truth....(talent lacks)
I can't believe someone actually agrees with me!!
Analyze the season, determine what went wrong, do your best to upgrade talent, and stay the course. Blowing things up, bringing in completely new staff, and changing the entire system again, is a recipe for continued failure. There comes a time (now) when you just halve to dig in your heels and avoid knee-jerk reactions. They've never got us anywhere before and they won't if we go that route again.
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Manziel makes this team better. Pettine does not.
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I like pettine
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This was on NFL.com today...
Browns head coach Mike Pettine hinted at some discord between the front office and coaching staff a week ago, but just how bad has it gotten?
Per NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport, the coaching staff does not think the scouting department provided them with nearly enough ammo to run the game plan. The scouting department, on the other hand, does not think the coaching staff is making enough in-game changes to utilize the players properly.
The result?
Per Rapoport, it is "unfathomable" to think both Pettine and general manager Ray Farmer will be back together next year.
At this point, it's obvious. The Browns are again broken and while many times the smartest football people will advocate for patience -- look at the rise of the Panthers, Bengals, Texans and even Jaguars -- the Browns are continuously trying to operate through a smog.
If there is this much pent up anger between both sides, it would be almost impossible to reach a consensus and with a draft right around the corner, the time should be now to make a move. This team almost had another two first-round picks, but could still very well end up with the No. 1 overall pick in the 2016 draft. These are crucial, irreversible decisions that will impact the franchise for decades.
Nobody is without fault here. On the field, Pettine's teams have lost 15 of their last 17 games. His on-field decisions have been puzzling at times and the hard-nosed, defensive mentality he promised the fans of Cleveland has yet to arrive. A rotating cast of promising power backs have come and gone, many of whom are backing up on other teams at the moment. Farmer signed the draft card on Justin Gilbert. At the the moment, he appears to have blown two consecutive drafts with two first-round picks, an unbelievable opportunity for a general manager to turn around the fate of the franchise. Instead of having Khalil Mack or Derek Carr or Sammy Watkins or Odell Beckham or, really, anyone from the first round of that loaded draft, the Browns have very little.
If the coach and general manager can't agree philosophically on the team's direction, someone -- or both -- have got to go.
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I think coaches in all sports get blamed way more than they deserve for losing. It's a hell of a lot easier when you have pro bowl caliber players on each side of the ball. It's way easier to fire the coach than to fire 40 players and find replacements.
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Johnny Manziel = Franchise QB
Mike Pettine = Franchise Head Coach
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I don't want to see Pettine fired after this season. I think he's a stand-up guy and I think the players respect him and want to play for him. I feel he's the least to blame for this dismal season and deserves a shot to right-the-ship.
How could he have predicted:
1. The Johnny Manziel drama. He was force-fed Manziel in my beilief. Haslam and Farmer were responsible for drafting JM, not Pettine.
2. Josh Gordon being suspended for the season. Losing an elite #1 receiver, with no close #2 guy, killed this offense.
3. Dwayne Bowe's complete failure. He sure as heck didn't go out and sign Bowe. Absolutely no blame sure be directed at Pettine.
4. The poor play of the offensive line. It's just mind-boggling how poorly they have played and are majorlly responsible for the non-existent running game.
5. Concussions wiping out starters.
6. The poor performance of the defensive line. I think it starts with Shelton. What's this guy's problem, he was suppose to be a beast?
I could go on and on but Pettine has got the raw deal via things he can't really control. Let's face it, he has no play-makers. How do win games without play-makers? What's the guy to do....yell at them louder?
Keep Pettine, get rid of Farmer, perhaps change some position coaches.
Pettine is a Pee Wee Football coach. He has no leadership. He hasn't come close to "coaching-up" a single position let alone player. He is a confidence killer and anti-motivator. He is the worst coach we have had here among a list of weak coaches ... except for maybe Robiskie, that guy was an idiot.
Farmer hasn't done a good job, but what players Farmer has brought in, Pettine mis-managed them and certainly did not grow them or coach them to any success.
Stop with the "stand-up guy" bullshit. He's an ambulance chaser. He attempts to try to address things after it is already a fiasco, try preventing the meltdowns in the first place, now that would be coaching.
Haslem ought to fire the guy tonight, just for his mismanagement of Manziel alone. Haslem ought to bitch-slap Pettine's bald head at a press conference and send the Uncle Fester P.O.S. packing.
I don't want to see Pettine fired after this season. I think he's a stand-up guy and I think the players respect him and want to play for him. I feel he's the least to blame for this dismal season and deserves a shot to right-the-ship.
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Pettine is a Pee Wee Football coach. He has no leadership. He hasn't come close to "coaching-up" a single position let alone player. He is a confidence killer and anti-motivator. He is the worst coach we have had here among a list of weak coaches ... except for maybe Robiskie, that guy was an idiot.
Farmer hasn't done a good job, but what players Farmer has brought in, Pettine mis-managed them and certainly did not grow them or coach them to any success.
Stop with the "stand-up guy" bullshit. He's an ambulance chaser. He attempts to try to address things after it is already a fiasco, try preventing the meltdowns in the first place, now that would be coaching.
Haslem ought to fire the guy tonight, just for his mismanagement of Manziel alone. Haslem ought to bitch-slap Pettine's bald head at a press conference and send the Uncle Fester P.O.S. packing.
I don't want to see Pettine fired after this season. I think he's a stand-up guy and I think the players respect him and want to play for him. I feel he's the least to blame for this dismal season and deserves a shot to right-the-ship.
Pettine is a Pee Wee Football coach. He has no leadership. He hasn't come close to "coaching-up" a single position let alone player. He is a confidence killer and anti-motivator. He is the worst coach we have had here among a list of weak coaches ... except for maybe Robiskie, that guy was an idiot.
Farmer hasn't done a good job, but what players Farmer has brought in, Pettine mis-managed them and certain did not grow them or coach them to any success.
Stop with the "stand-up guy" bullshit. He's an ambulance chaser. He attempts to ry address things after it is already a fiasco, try preventing the meltdowns in the first place, now that would be coaching.
Haslem ought to fire the guy tonight, just for his mismanagement of Manziel alone. Haslem ought to bitch-slap Pettine's bald head at a press conference and send the Uncle Fester P.O.S. packing.
Agree bro.
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I think the handling of Manziel was appropriate by Pettine, sounds like he had the support of the locker room too.
And if you think Manziel is a stud franchise QB (obviously annointing him after 1 game is crazy) - then I'd say he "coached-up" Manziel pretty well.
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So now it is because of Pettine that Manziel is having success? How about when Manziel tore it up against Tennessee and then Pettine promptly benched him to start a 7 game losing streak?
Is Manziel to blame for much of his "drama"? Absolutley, but Pettine has poured gasoline on the fire at every opportunity. So much is made of "off field issues" and "drama" with Manziel but here are a few facts. Since joining the Browns Manziel has never tested positive for drugs. He has never been arrested. He has never missed a team meeting. The worst thing he has done is miss a rehab session after his season was over last year. This year especially Manziel hasn't really done anything wrong. The only 2 issues have been the non story traffic stop with his girlfriend which he was clearly sober and in control based on the video and he was not even given a ticket and the fact he had the audacity to go out of town on his bye week and have a drink at a bar. He didn't make a fool of himself or miss the charity event the next day but he did go to a bar. Now Johnny did go to rehab and he is a guy that attracts attention and should know he has to keep his nose extra clean but a lot of folks seem to forget that he should also be preparing for a bowl game as a Senior in college right now. One thing Johnny also gets zero credit for is he has never been reported to be divisive in the locker room and he has never said anything critical or Pettine, his teammates, or the Browns organization to the media and he damn well has had just cause to do so.
What has Pettine done? At every opportunity he has thrown Manziel under the bus. The things he has said about Manziel to the media are ridiculous and unprofessional. He has never liked or supported Manziel and he has made sure EVERYONE knows it. Every time Manziel does something positive he dismisses it and every time he does something negative he almost seems to revel in it. The signature moment being during halftime of the Bengals game when immediately after Johnny led the team to its longest TD drive of the season he chose to rail against how Johnny was getting out of the pocket too much only to hear the opposing coach agree that their biggest concern was also making sure Johnny stayed in the pocket. Pettine has treated Johnny like a child and created a set of rules far harsher for him than any other player. At times he has seemed more intent on teaching Manziel a lesson than winning football games. Let's also not forget that Pettine clearly had an existing relationship with Hoyer last year and allowed Hoyer to bash Johnny both personally and through is lackey Cabot all of last season, great leadership there. Pettine is trying to make Johnny into a traditional pocket passer that doesn't run and shows no emotion. The problem is that sacrifices most of Manziel's strengths but even moreso the Browns simply aren't build for that. The OL, RB's, and WR's and mediocre at best and having a traditional pocket passer who is essentially managing the game isn't going to be very successful in that scenario.
Manziel is a guy that needs a mentor. He needs someone he can trust that will help to guide him and believes in him. He needs someone who understands how to emphasize his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. Design an offense that flows for him not against him. You saw some signs of that this week with a shotgun based offense that allowed for Johnny to see the field and have space to operate. The next step is getting the receivers to work with him to extend plays and the OLine to keep blocking until the whistle blows. With Johnny you never know when he will make a play out of nothing. You also have to realize he will make some mistakes, just as all young QB's do. Don't make him so concerned about making a mistake that he can't get comfortable. Manziel is a leader and a guy that people love to play with because of his fire and passion, don't try to make him something he isn't.
If the Browns really want to succeed they should build around Manziel and give him some weapons to work with. Get him a coach that isn't an old school hardass but can teach Johnny how to still have fun and be a successful QB by nurturing him. If that isn't what they want to do then trade him and go get another traditional NFL QB who is focused on not making mistakes instead of making plays, there are no shortage of them.
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I'm not against keeping Pettine. My main thing is I'd possibly like another defensive coordinator, an offensive line coach, and MOST DEFINITELY a new GM.
The team hasn't quit, and while I know they are professionals, it's still impressive to see such a fired up effort. We looked disciplined, motivated, and in total control. What this team needs is massive loads of talent. For instance, Mike Pettine gets Danny Shelton and Cameron Erving in the first round. Shelton apparently grades out as "pretty decent", although I don't see any eye-popping plays. But Erving....my god. I want so much for him to succeed, and I'm searching for every excuse in the book, but Erving is flat out getting his ass blown apart on virtually every play. I mean, on those two FG's I thought I was watching a fight scene from "The Matrix". Erving just kept flying backwards in air. I know he's a rookie, but from what I understand, the FG blocking unit isn't exactly the most difficult assignment in football. I admit I personally don't know a lot about it, but the kid is getting his ass whipped. And it's really bad.
So Pettine gets two first round picks that are once again not difference makers. Awesome. I realize that not all rookies will be amazing right away, and that it takes more than one season to declare someone a bust. I'm not saying Shelton and Erving are worthless, but GOD FORBID we have a first rounder that comes in and makes a damn splash. Oh, and Farmer...thanks for the WR's in the offseason! The additions of Bowe and Mayle sure helped. *groan*
Pettine is a young coach, and he's certainly not blowing me away, but perhaps he needs time to learn his craft. I admit, the clock management issues he has drives me INSANE. I also admit I think Pettine screwed up by not playing Manziel directly after we beat the Titans. I believe Pettine screwed up BIG TIME with that, and he played McCown because he wanted as many wins as possible to save his job. I get it, but it actually might COST him his job. Four games at the end of the season is NOT enough to know what we have with Johnny, and what's worse, we play three REALLY good teams to finish the season, and two of those on the road. Not very easy to assess Manziel with these three games when he's playing with practice squad WR's.
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We lost almost every game with pretty good QB play.
The Tennessee game was a solid performance (excellent performance by our defense and ST - we battered the hell out of Mariotta). But outside of the 2 bombs I wouldn't call it "tearing it up"
I want him to succeed and he's made huge progress over last year for sure, but all Pettine has done is hold him accountable for his actions. Manziel is probably better off for it...
McCown was playing most games well enough to win, he was the starter. Of course Pettine wasn't going to bench him (You don't bench a starter who's playing good ball, right?)
When it was obvious we were out of contention, he gave Johnny the keys for the rest of the season (as to be expected) - then Manziel boozed up with champagne and lied to his coaches, told his friends to lie for him. Not good!
Seems to me Pettine has been concerned with both Johnny "the person" and Johnny "the player" Not sure why people bitch about that. It's not like Johnny earned any right to start 2015 last year, as he was the worst quarterback we had on the roster last year by far.
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So now it is because of Pettine that Manziel is having success? How about when Manziel tore it up against Tennessee and then Pettine promptly benched him to start a 7 game losing streak?
Is Manziel to blame for much of his "drama"? Absolutley, but Pettine has poured gasoline on the fire at every opportunity. So much is made of "off field issues" and "drama" with Manziel but here are a few facts. Since joining the Browns Manziel has never tested positive for drugs. He has never been arrested. He has never missed a team meeting. The worst thing he has done is miss a rehab session after his season was over last year. This year especially Manziel hasn't really done anything wrong. The only 2 issues have been the non story traffic stop with his girlfriend which he was clearly sober and in control based on the video and he was not even given a ticket and the fact he had the audacity to go out of town on his bye week and have a drink at a bar. He didn't make a fool of himself or miss the charity event the next day but he did go to a bar. Now Johnny did go to rehab and he is a guy that attracts attention and should know he has to keep his nose extra clean but a lot of folks seem to forget that he should also be preparing for a bowl game as a Senior in college right now. One thing Johnny also gets zero credit for is he has never been reported to be divisive in the locker room and he has never said anything critical or Pettine, his teammates, or the Browns organization to the media and he damn well has had just cause to do so.
What has Pettine done? At every opportunity he has thrown Manziel under the bus. The things he has said about Manziel to the media are ridiculous and unprofessional. He has never liked or supported Manziel and he has made sure EVERYONE knows it. Every time Manziel does something positive he dismisses it and every time he does something negative he almost seems to revel in it. The signature moment being during halftime of the Bengals game when immediately after Johnny led the team to its longest TD drive of the season he chose to rail against how Johnny was getting out of the pocket too much only to hear the opposing coach agree that their biggest concern was also making sure Johnny stayed in the pocket. Pettine has treated Johnny like a child and created a set of rules far harsher for him than any other player. At times he has seemed more intent on teaching Manziel a lesson than winning football games. Let's also not forget that Pettine clearly had an existing relationship with Hoyer last year and allowed Hoyer to bash Johnny both personally and through is lackey Cabot all of last season, great leadership there. Pettine is trying to make Johnny into a traditional pocket passer that doesn't run and shows no emotion. The problem is that sacrifices most of Manziel's strengths but even moreso the Browns simply aren't build for that. The OL, RB's, and WR's and mediocre at best and having a traditional pocket passer who is essentially managing the game isn't going to be very successful in that scenario.
Manziel is a guy that needs a mentor. He needs someone he can trust that will help to guide him and believes in him. He needs someone who understands how to emphasize his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. Design an offense that flows for him not against him. You saw some signs of that this week with a shotgun based offense that allowed for Johnny to see the field and have space to operate. The next step is getting the receivers to work with him to extend plays and the OLine to keep blocking until the whistle blows. With Johnny you never know when he will make a play out of nothing. You also have to realize he will make some mistakes, just as all young QB's do. Don't make him so concerned about making a mistake that he can't get comfortable. Manziel is a leader and a guy that people love to play with because of his fire and passion, don't try to make him something he isn't.
If the Browns really want to succeed they should build around Manziel and give him some weapons to work with. Get him a coach that isn't an old school hardass but can teach Johnny how to still have fun and be a successful QB by nurturing him. If that isn't what they want to do then trade him and go get another traditional NFL QB who is focused on not making mistakes instead of making plays, there are no shortage of them.
So now it is because of Pettine that Manziel is having success? How about when Manziel tore it up against Tennessee and then Pettine promptly benched him to start a 7 game losing streak?
Is Manziel to blame for much of his "drama"? Absolutley, but Pettine has poured gasoline on the fire at every opportunity. So much is made of "off field issues" and "drama" with Manziel but here are a few facts. Since joining the Browns Manziel has never tested positive for drugs. He has never been arrested. He has never missed a team meeting. The worst thing he has done is miss a rehab session after his season was over last year. This year especially Manziel hasn't really done anything wrong. The only 2 issues have been the non story traffic stop with his girlfriend which he was clearly sober and in control based on the video and he was not even given a ticket and the fact he had the audacity to go out of town on his bye week and have a drink at a bar. He didn't make a fool of himself or miss the charity event the next day but he did go to a bar. Now Johnny did go to rehab and he is a guy that attracts attention and should know he has to keep his nose extra clean but a lot of folks seem to forget that he should also be preparing for a bowl game as a Senior in college right now. One thing Johnny also gets zero credit for is he has never been reported to be divisive in the locker room and he has never said anything critical or Pettine, his teammates, or the Browns organization to the media and he damn well has had just cause to do so.
What has Pettine done? At every opportunity he has thrown Manziel under the bus. The things he has said about Manziel to the media are ridiculous and unprofessional. He has never liked or supported Manziel and he has made sure EVERYONE knows it. Every time Manziel does something positive he dismisses it and every time he does something negative he almost seems to revel in it. The signature moment being during halftime of the Bengals game when immediately after Johnny led the team to its longest TD drive of the season he chose to rail against how Johnny was getting out of the pocket too much only to hear the opposing coach agree that their biggest concern was also making sure Johnny stayed in the pocket. Pettine has treated Johnny like a child and created a set of rules far harsher for him than any other player. At times he has seemed more intent on teaching Manziel a lesson than winning football games. Let's also not forget that Pettine clearly had an existing relationship with Hoyer last year and allowed Hoyer to bash Johnny both personally and through is lackey Cabot all of last season, great leadership there. Pettine is trying to make Johnny into a traditional pocket passer that doesn't run and shows no emotion. The problem is that sacrifices most of Manziel's strengths but even moreso the Browns simply aren't build for that. The OL, RB's, and WR's and mediocre at best and having a traditional pocket passer who is essentially managing the game isn't going to be very successful in that scenario.
Manziel is a guy that needs a mentor. He needs someone he can trust that will help to guide him and believes in him. He needs someone who understands how to emphasize his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. Design an offense that flows for him not against him. You saw some signs of that this week with a shotgun based offense that allowed for Johnny to see the field and have space to operate. The next step is getting the receivers to work with him to extend plays and the OLine to keep blocking until the whistle blows. With Johnny you never know when he will make a play out of nothing. You also have to realize he will make some mistakes, just as all young QB's do. Don't make him so concerned about making a mistake that he can't get comfortable. Manziel is a leader and a guy that people love to play with because of his fire and passion, don't try to make him something he isn't.
If the Browns really want to succeed they should build around Manziel and give him some weapons to work with. Get him a coach that isn't an old school hardass but can teach Johnny how to still have fun and be a successful QB by nurturing him. If that isn't what they want to do then trade him and go get another traditional NFL QB who is focused on not making mistakes instead of making plays, there are no shortage of them.
wow. you are an idiot.
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The only thing I've really had a problem with with Pettine was his insistence that the team was giving maximum effort during games where they were destroyed on the field. That's a shit attitude and a loser mentality. No accountability for what went wrong... And that's a general sentiment that comes from this coaching staff. They keep talking as though everything is good and that only minor adjustments need happen. It's obvious that more is needed. Clock management too, I guess has been an issue.
But aside from that, I like Pettine. He's had a rough go this season with his defensive backfield (what should be a significant strength of this team) getting hurt and underperforming. I have to think that the team would look a whole lot different if that one aspect didn't fail us this year.
I think Pettine has respect in the room and I believe given a better roster, he'd have the ability to coach this team to a respectable record. When he keeps players on the bench, I trust he has reason to do so. I don't think it's a matter of vendettas and I don't think it's personal.
Keep him in place for another season. If you must, then change the management. But keep the coaching consistent. Get an offensive weapon or two and keep plugging away at defensive personnel. If we're patient with this crew, I'd be willing to bet we see a turnaround in Cleveland. If we start again, we're no better off.
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The issue is that "pretty good QB play" with the talent on the Browns' offense is going to result in a lot of losses, which is exactly what happened. Johnny is a playmaker, that is the catalyst the Browns needed and that is why 2 of the 3 W's came in Johnny's limited starts. In Johnny's 2 losses he also played pretty well and was plagued by drops from receivers, no run game, and a defense that was giving up a ton of points. Between those 2 losses he threw for 550+, 2 TD's and 1 pick. For the season he is completing over 60% with 6 TD's and 3 picks. That doesn't account for his ability to run which Pettine has clearly discouraged all year.
Pettine doesn't give a damn about Johnny the person and that is patently obvious. If he did then he wouldn't berate him in the press and throw him under the bus constantly while clearly encouraging others to join in on the fun. If he cared about him he would support him publicly and keep any discipline he had in mind in the locker room, that's what a professional does. Johnny's teammates have praised him this year but Pettine has stayed critical. Fortunately for Johnny he is confident enough in himself to deal with it but a lot of others would have crumbled having their HC regularly humiliate them with the press.
If you don't like Johnny and think Pettine is great, fine, I can understand that. Just don't try to come up with some BS that Pettine's "tough love" of Johnny is why he is successful. The truth is that if Pettine had managed Johnny differently the Browns probably have 3 more wins right now. Johnny has clearly been successful in spite of Pettine and not because of him. You can almost feel Pettine still cringe every time Johnny goes out of the pocket and makes a play because it doesn't fit within Pettine's ideal of QB's that stand like a statue waiting to be pummeled behind the lack of an OL and running game.
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